Your Libido Isn’t Broken. It’s Changing

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[00:00:00] You really can start to like open yourself up to receiving pleasure at a specific time. So it’s actually a really, really important way to kind of get into that mindset. Talking or thinking about a topic like this. For a lot of women, they don’t even know where to begin because they feel like they’re just so lost in terms of who they used to be and who they want to be now.

Well, I actually think the first place you go is yourself because you’re not gonna find information. And what you need from anybody else. I don’t feel like there’s desire there. There’s all those layers, but instead of communicating or calling that out, it’s much easier for for us to default to wise. Is there toothpaste in the sink?

Yeah, we avoid the heart conversations. Yeah.

Welcome to the Living Rich podcast. Today we’re talking about women’s sex drive and libido and how it changed. [00:01:00] Over time and how that is totally normal. This is the latest episode in our Real Women Real Talk series that we do here. Uh, Wendy and I do this on the Living Richly podcast, but today we’re excited to bring back a special guest.

We have Dr. Emma Paula McLeod joining us today. Welcome back. Thank you. So thanks for having you back again. Yay. Um, so let’s. Let’s talk ’cause there’s a lot we wanna dive into. Let me maybe introduce a little bit of your background for people who maybe missed our last show that we did on Perimenopause Menopause, women’s Hormonal Health.

Great episode. Missed it, which is, so be sure to check it out. Um, but your background, so, and still, I guess not just your background. Naturopathic doctor, CEO of Nutri Chem, and just a huge. Advocate and I would say an educator on really helping women understand their own health and what they can do and how to get educated, find information, and make the best decisions for their health.

So you couldn’t be a [00:02:00] better person to have on the show, I say, to dive into it. Perfect. Um, so this topic, I think for a lot of women holds. A lot. Yeah. So it can hold a lot of shame. It can, you know, it’s something we talk about often, maybe with our girlfriends or we don’t talk about at all. And today I can’t wait to kind of dive into it and, and maybe talk through why that happens and, and maybe that’s a great place to start.

Mm-hmm. Why do you think it is when. Our sex drive changes, our libido changes. Why is it that women often will jump to What’s wrong with me? Yeah. Right. What’s, what did I do? Or what, what’s something that Maybe I shifted something what’s happening to me, but it doesn’t feel like they’re curious about what’s going on health wise.

It’s just like I messed up somewhere. This is my fault. My fault. I was just gonna say, yeah. Yeah. So why is that? Yeah. And I, I think that you nailed it. It’s so common, and I think this is why [00:03:00] the podcast episode is so important, because we also don’t realize how common it is that, you know, libido and desire and pleasure changes.

Mm-hmm. And so I think if we’re not talking about it, we think that it’s. Our own isolated issue and that nobody else is facing that. And especially with media and social media and you hear all these things and you’re like, well, it must be easy for other people, but for me, and, and there’s, and there’s so many, there’s so many other parts kind of behind that as well.

So I think kind of just. Bringing it out on the table is first of all, like normalizing it, that this is really common. It doesn’t mean there’s nothing you can do, but first we just need to start to talk about it as women, to be, to acknowledge that it will change through your lifespan. Of course it will.

Your libido, your desires, what pleasure is to you, changes, and if you don’t kind of start to get curious about it, it won’t shift. So are there. Standards [00:04:00] or are there, you know, we talked about, you know, perimenopause and menopause and there’s a cycle. Are there cycles for women? Are there things they can be looking for maybe to help feel more normal, as I put in air quotes.

Mm-hmm. But are there things that they can look for? Are there sort of patterns that happen at different stages across a woman’s life? Yeah, I, I think it’s important to distinguish between sexual arousal, like arousal and desire. Mm-hmm. There are two different. They’re two different conversations. They’re of course related.

Mm-hmm. But sexual arousal and the ability to actually feel pleasure and have kind of more of the, the organic, um, kind of physiology behind it does change through time because your physiology is changing with time. Right. And so that is part of the, the changes that can happen, um, in terms of like tissue changes, in terms of like lubrication, in terms of like.

Clitoral size as [00:05:00] well. Like these things change as estrogen declines. These are physical changes that can happen that can impact your ability to kind of feel and experience pleasure, which can then impact desire. So there’s kind of different like cycles. Um, and I think as time goes on where, and we talked about this in the last podcast, like what you need at different stages of your life is very different.

But if we don’t stop and kind of explore and understand and communicate with our partner. We’re just assuming we need the same things. We assume we need the same things for pleasure or libido or intimacy, and we don’t. Mm-hmm. And so that we’re like, well, why isn’t this working for me anymore? I don’t want this anymore.

And it’s ’cause we haven’t, you know, actually acknowledged that what we need is, is changing, but we haven’t yet discovered what that means. Right. Yeah. I love, I love the way you put that, I think [00:06:00] for women too.

In libido, but in desire, like you’re, you know, and I think just being a young mom and being so like. Tired. Like you’re tired all the time. All of the time. Yeah. Right. And you’re just like, you’re adjusting to this new, this kind of new phase of life. Mm-hmm. So I would imagine in those different phases, depending on mental stresses, work stresses, I would imagine that it, it must shift.

I mean, I, I, I can’t help but think the mental plays a huge part in. In that as well. Of course. Yeah. Yeah. It plays a huge part and I think that’s, you know, the brain, if you, the brain is a sexual organ. It’s part of actually sparking, sparking what we require to connect and receive pleasure and you know, I think society.

We [00:07:00] prioritize and we really value productivity. We value, um, you know, placing others, getting things done, taking care of the kids, taking care of kinda the household and, and keeping everything ordered. But, uh, pleasure is not something that is really like valued. It’s actually sometimes, you know, there’s a lot of shame and judgment and guilt mm-hmm.

Around pleasure that it’s, you know, it’s not important. So we auto. N un prioritize it. Right. Are you finding there’s more research happening? I know, you know, we’re seeing more research happen, which is fantastic across all of, you know, women’s health, but is this, I feel like this is an area that’s specifically not well understood.

Mm-hmm. Maybe not well researched, and maybe I’m not well-informed, but I’d love to know your take if you’re seeing more research being done specifically around women. Yeah. I mean, there’s. There’s huge movements. I mean, what I was listening [00:08:00] to this podcast, like the clitoris was just put on the map in like 1997 or something, you know, like it’s, um, there’s more research.

I think there is more avenues to have. Conversations that there’s nuance. Yeah. And there needs to, there, there’s discussions around, you know, polarity, the masculine and feminine, you know, receiving pleasure, exploring your needs, like really things beyond the physiology. Mm-hmm. That must. To be acknowledged and discussed when we’re trying to kind of explore this other side of ourselves that we’ve kind of like shut out, especially if we are in something that is putting a in, in a job or position or relationship where we are, we are taking charge, we’re the leader of the household.

Mm-hmm. We’re in a different energy and you know, this is. Putting us into, uh, we must be kind of in a different space. Yeah, I think that’s really [00:09:00] well, well put. I think a lot of women struggle to communicate and even talk to their partner. I am, my girlfriends and I, we talk a lot about it, which is great.

You can share, you can, you know, share what you wanna share. But I think having an outlet and having someone you can talk to, but a lot of women. Can do that with girlfriends or you know, someone close to them but not their partner. Yeah. There seems to be this barrier on communicating. Mm-hmm. And for women asking for what they want and what they need.

And even explaining sometimes like what’s shifting. Right. Just ’cause what we’re. Two weeks ago might not work. Yeah. Today. And, and really being okay communicating that and letting go of you’re doing anything wrong. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I was just thinking like, yeah. So many women I find get frustrated because they don’t know how to articulate or communicate even what they need or the feeling of when things are shifting.[00:10:00]

Um, I know many women just become frustrated ’cause they think there’s something wrong with them. And so then to be able to communicate that. To your partner is even more challenging because you don’t know what to say. You don’t know how to explain it. All you can think is, there’s something wrong with me.

And that just is not a great feeling. No, and I think women, I. Feel like they should wait to wanna, like, I’m, I’m in the mood, so now I’m gonna go. Yeah. And, and so I think it’s important to talk through too, like if you’re always waiting for that, you might be waiting a long time depending on who you are in your career, right?

Like, I’m just thinking young family. Yeah. Like you might be waiting a long time to be in the mood. So what can like. Where do women start to kind of get information on? ’cause I know I would be Googling, I would be on there, I would be searching, like, where can they go to find information? Do they go to their family doctor?

Can they see a naturopath? What? Like what are your thoughts? Well, I actually think the first [00:11:00] place you go is yourself. Mm. Because you’re not gonna find information on what you need from anybody else. Mm. And. I think that’s the key thing is we expect our partner to know what we need, but we don’t know what we need.

Mm-hmm. And it’s, it becomes very frustrating because we, what we need is dynamic and it’s changing and sometimes there’s a lot of shame and guilt. Mm-hmm. Because we don’t want it to change. That’s kind of the irony, is that as women you’re, you know, you want to feel. Libido and you want to feel desire and arousal.

And so when you don’t feel that it’s actually a big shift in kind of personal identity for some, mm-hmm. For some women and you’re, you know, that’s where the kind of like something, something’s changing therefore. It must be broken or wrong. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Where it’s, it’s going to change, especially in a long-term relationship where, you know, you’re, you’ve kind of gotten in these routines and [00:12:00] roles and you have this other higher purpose, especially if you have young kids.

Yeah. You have to kind of come back to yourself and I think before we try to look for kind of external information. Mm-hmm. Like what we need and are we, are we waiting to feel motivated because it’s like the gym, like Yeah, you’re never gonna. Just get up and be like, if you’re waiting to go, it’s, you’re gonna be waiting forever.

You must kind of start to explore and just go and, and it is pleasure and prioritize. Like if you are not doing that, and even if it’s self exploration, like what is it that’s holding you back? Is it because you’re, you always have something more important? Is it that you feel guilty? Is it that you know there’s shame involved or you feel uncomfortable in your own body?

’cause your body is changing? Is it something that you’re just not even thinking about at all? So I think starting to connect with yourself, um, because it’s, it does change [00:13:00] significantly, is, is really a important first step. I think so many women don’t connect with the, on so many levels. Right. And the asking for what you need.

I love that when you dunno what you need. We talk a lot about that just in a relationship, let alone on that side of it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You just did a We haven’t done that this year. Um, so we did a, a show all on perimenopause, hormonal health. Mm-hmm. I’d love to know, kind of in that stage of life, what, what are some things that shift for women.

Yeah. You know, when we talk about libido, just all of it. Yeah. So I think we can start, like, we start like physically. ’cause there’s like the kind of mechanics of it. Yeah. Which is what we were talking a little bit about. And um, you know, estrogen, we know estrogen is what drives when you have. When you ha, when, when you have a fetus, estrogen is, DR drives female anatomy and testosterone drives male [00:14:00] anatomy.

Mm-hmm. And what that means is that the genital urinary tract is extremely responsive to estrogen. Meaning because it drives the development of it, you know, the genital urinary tract, the vaginal tract, like all the sexual organs are. Highly, highly concentrated with estrogen receptors. And so when you lose estrogen, or estrogen starts to decline, the tissues do respond.

Uh, like the tissues are impacted quite a bit and they can be impacted quite early. And sometimes it’s very hard to identify, like when someone says vaginal dryness or, yeah, it, it’s, it doesn’t really. Hit with a lot of women. Mm-hmm. They’re like, I don’t even know what that means. Right. Um, but so that’s a big physical change that can happen is in the actuals, like sexual organs themselves.

Yeah. So the clitoris itself can shrink as well. There can be atrophy of the tissues. So the experience of pleasure can change. Um, same with not having your. Brain flooded with estrogen. Um, that ability [00:15:00] to tap into the more kind of like feminine receptive kind of energy can be more challenging when we don’t have those kind of biochemical signals in our body.

And that is a big part of kind of that like. Polarity and a big part of chemistry and, and, and, and you know, that intimacy and connection and spark with a partner. So those changes can happen. And then there’s the fatigue, all the other physical symptoms that can start to kind of pile on. Mm-hmm. Um, so, you know, that’s, that’s kind of where I would say the, the perimenopause shift can, can have an impact.

Um. But I do think if, like you said, if, if you’re just waiting, you need to also shift, you know, women, the way that we’ve somehow set up intercourse or intimacy or connection with your partner is always like in the evening at 9:00 PM Yeah. When women are, I’m like, that’s not gonna work. That, you know, [00:16:00] women are exhausted.

Like, how do you. You know, scheduling is a huge, uh, thing that I talk to women about when it comes to libido and intimacy. It sounds very unsexy, but having like scheduled time for you and your partner for like intimacy and connection is really, really, really important. And it is not Auntie connection.

Yeah, I heard something around, I can’t, I must have been a podcast I was listening to, but how, how it, it shifts to a place of like, there’s a lot more planning and prep that happens. Mm-hmm. Later it’s, it, it tends to not be so spontaneous, but we somehow, as. Equate that in our heads with like, well, it’s not sexy, or It’s not, and it, it’s, and it’s, it’s just the way it’s been positioned in society.

And I think we’ve all bought into this like, well, that’s not sexy. I’m not gonna lay out, or it feels like another task. Right. Or, or something else on your checklist. Right. Yeah. And you, and it doesn’t feel intimate and it doesn’t, I think sexy is probably the word. Yeah. Like, it just doesn’t [00:17:00] feel like what you see.

Yes. And what we all, we all know what we see. Yeah. Is not real. However, your brain still is associating Yeah. Those two. Yeah. And, and it’s actually, it’s so the opposite. Yeah. Because especially for, you know, speaking to women and if it, if this is something, I think it’s important to first be like, is this something that’s actually important to you?

Yeah. Is this something that is important to your partner? Yeah. And you want to be able to connect with them because, you know, again, I think. The nuance in conversations is important, especially if there’s masculine and feminine, like testosterone is a huge hormone in men, and, and connection is very important, especially in in a sexual relationship.

So I think it’s good for us to be able to have these kind of open and honest conversations and scheduling time. Or you know, on the weekend or being like, this is the day of the week, or whatever it is, you can then start to tap into kind [00:18:00] of the version what you need to explore. Okay. I’m not gonna do, I’m not gonna schedule these other things on that day.

Yeah. I’m gonna start to like already. You know, get into it. In my mind, I’m gonna not, you know, run myself to the ground. You know, you, you really can start to like open yourself up to receiving pleasure at a specific time. So it’s actually a really, really important way to kind of get into that mindset.

Why do you think. Women are so scared of that because I, yeah. I would argue that most women right now are like, oh, like, yeah. Tell me, what do you mean? Like what’s, I think a lot of women are like, I think what they, when they hear that they’re like, feels like so much pressure. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. In that moment, and I’ve heard this from my girlfriends.

Okay. Is if of like, if we schedule it. I gotta show up, I gotta be ready, I gotta deliver. Like it, it almost feels like we have to have [00:19:00] sex now and that pressure mm-hmm. Is a lot in their head. They get overwhelmed with that and then it’s like, it’s an instant, it almost, it has the opposite mm-hmm. Effect.

And I, I’ve heard that from multiple women. Mm-hmm. So. But the spontaneous isn’t working for them either. No. Yeah. But there does seem to be, and I, I wonder if it’s a fear of real intimacy. ’cause that is, uh, if you’re starting to have those conversations with your partner, if you’re starting, that is true intimacy.

That is you having those hard conversations that maybe. You don’t wanna have, you’re scared of mm-hmm. Your fear of being judged more of that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that’s, I think that’s a, that’s, you know, scheduling time to start to even think ab like that. It doesn’t have to be, I think not having an outcome and having those conversations with your partner to be like, this is where we’re actually gonna like, focus in on this area.

Um, I think it, it also shows the, you know, [00:20:00] position of a lot of women where it’s like, this is meant to be pleasurable for you. Yeah. And so if it, if that is at, if that isn’t even on the table, if it’s just for somebody else or you just feel this like anxiety around it, I think that actually kind of uncovers.

Like a, it does kind of uncover a root underneath, which is the, the dynamics, which is like, maybe that’s not something that you’re even concerned about at all and you have no interest in it. Yeah. And how do we start to kinda like, unpack that a little bit without judgment? Yeah. And not make it about, you know, an outcome.

Yeah. I think. Go ahead. No, I was just say when you, when you, when you said the word anxiety, I think that I was like, oh, that’s such a good word to describe how a lot of women feel around just the anxiety of, to what you said, having to be [00:21:00] on, having to perform like, and then it just creates that frustration where.

You’re just, you’re just completely shut down. Mm-hmm. I think there’s a lot of shame for women just owning their own sexuality. Yeah. And, and just, I really like when you talk about like, exploring it with yourself. Mm-hmm. Like, I think it’s so important for women to understand who they are before you’re even talking to your partner.

And I wonder if some of that anxiety is around, I don’t. Even know, or I’m scared to know, or I’ve been judging myself for so long and I plop myself in that shame box for a long time. Mm-hmm. And how do you, how do you move outta that? Mm-hmm. But I, I think the, like, starting with self is, is, is so key for our listeners when we talk so much about that on the podcast, on who we are.

Like who were we before we became a mom? Mm-hmm. A wife, um, you know, um. Business owner, like all of the things, and we somehow lose ourselves over the years. Where then we, we, when we’re. Talking or thinking about a [00:22:00] topic like this, for a lot of women, they don’t even know where to begin because they feel like they’re just so lost in terms of who they used to be and who they want to be now.

Yeah. Yeah. I am. We touched a little bit on, um, estrogen. So we’ve talked before on the show about HRT mm-hmm. Helping women if it’s a good fit. I’m curious to talk a little bit about testosterone for women. Um, I have one girlfriend who swears. By her test I, her her journey. Um. Was not one I had heard before.

So I was curious. I’m just curious to know more about testosterone for women. When and why, if is it even, I don’t want women thinking there’s like a magic sort of pill out there to help you, but what, what does testosterone do for women later in menopause? Yeah, so. Testosterone is such a hot topic right now.

Yeah. For women. Um, so, we’ll, we’ll, for, for the conversation, I’ll first talk about testosterone locally. So vaginally. Yeah. ’cause [00:23:00] that’s where there’s a lot of, a lot of like very good research. Uh, so when we were talking about the shifts that happen kind of more locally, the use of vaginal estrogen is very, very safe and very effective for, um, again, pleasure or like the sexual arousal side of things.

If it, if it’s really related to sensation and, and kind of, um, like I said, arousal, if you’re not getting enough from estrogen, if estrogen’s not improving the area, like the use of a localized testosterone with estrogen is very helpful for that. So if you’re like, I can’t orgasm, or the orgasms are not as good anymore, um, the use of testosterone can be very effective, just locally, low dose.

Uh, with estrogen for that. And there’s very good research around, um, vaginal testosterone or DHEA for sexual function in women, the use of topical testosterone. So more as HRT, [00:24:00] um, as an naturopathic doctor, I can’t prescribe testosterone, so don’t use testosterone a lot with women. Um, I do find there is like a very, very mixed, um, response to testosterone.

Like some women are like, this is. This is it. This is like very game changing for me. Yeah. Uh, and then other women are like, I didn’t really notice anything at all. So. Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. I think, I think that’s where you have to kind of dig into the other area. It’s, it’s similar with other hormones as well.

So I think there’s nothing like the U like testosterone is very low dose for women. Um. It can be very safe. So I’m like, women can try, like you can try it. If you’ve built the foundations, if you’re on the other hormones, like I always usually to suggest using estrogen and progesterone first. Yeah. Uh, doing all the foundational stuff and if there’s still kind of, you’re missing, you’re looking to explore what that means.

’cause there is a very biological piece to being able to kind of have [00:25:00] that desire. Mm-hmm. Then the use of. Like trials of testosterone are, um, are like, there’s decent research. It’s just very new and emerging for women. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. And can you measure it? Testosterone levels, like is it the same as, so even though that’s not always accurate either when you’re measuring, depending on where you’re in your cycle.

I’m just curious. So the testosterone, so with all the kind of new discussion like. Emerging conversations on testosterone, it’s really uncovered that the lab ranges for women for, you know, what is normal. Testosterone levels is just not adequate to drive clinical decisions. So it’s just so broad. It’s, it’s just.

There’s no real guidelines around what should a level be in a woman at these different stages and what would get her there. So hormones in general Yeah. Are still prescribed, [00:26:00] like very symptomatically. As long as you’re not going to high, we’re never dosing you to get to a level. Okay. Is it because there’s lot, I’m my brain.

I’m totally off script here. I have all these questions. Is, is that because it’s, we haven’t done a lot of research in it, or is it just because it’s something that fluctuates so much? There is, it’s hard to get a baseline. Yeah. I don’t really have, I’m not a hundred percent I’m, I mean, I’m sure we haven’t done the research because it fluctuates so much and because again, testosterone and women was.

Seen as kind of just like a byproduct. Yeah. Adrenal hormone. That’s not really, like testosterone is actually, um, kind of the, one of the upstream hormones that estrogen and progesterone kind of come through. Okay. Um, so, you know, it was seen as kind of not really relevant for women. Mm-hmm. Um, and so now it’s, it’s, you know, definitely it, it is being used as a, as a tool.

Yeah. And I think all the hormones can be used as tools. Um. You’re right though. It’s such a hot topic. [00:27:00] It’s a very hot topic and there’s so much information. Yeah. That I think it’s for, yeah. So many women. It’s just so overwhelming. Yeah. ’cause not only do you have different people’s opinions, but then you’ve got different research and Yeah.

Well, and what works. Like you said, what works. Yeah. Maybe brilliantly for one woman will not work for another. Exactly. And I think we tend to want to find the, oh, this worked for this one person. Yeah. This was the thing and you know, my life is gonna change. It’s, it’s, it’s just like even in that one comment that you made about, you know, your, you know, the, the consistent, uh, anxiety that you hear around scheduling, like, yeah.

That is so like if your, does your partner understand that? Because I feel like if there’s that, there’s like a normal human tendency that if you feel like you can’t say no or you feel like you can’t make a decision, it like puts you into this like. Anxious state. So, you know, being able to have those conversations [00:28:00] with someone to be like, Hey, I, I, this is really important.

I see how important this is to you. This is something that I wanna, like we’re working on together, but I don’t want this to be tied to outcomes. ’cause that actually like Smothers. Mm-hmm. The whole purpose of this. And often women are craving connection and it doesn’t have to mean like physical intimacy in intercourse.

It can just mean like. Exploring what that means. Like how do you reconnect with your partner as you know, the new versions of yourself? I love that you put it that way. Yeah. And I think that’s a great way for women to look at it, is you, you schedule the time, it’s couple time and that can take, it can look a million different ways.

Yeah. And, and you know, women craving that connection and intimacy that isn’t always. Sex. Mm-hmm. It’s just that, that intimate time together. And so maybe that’s a great reframe for our listeners is just to consider that time, you know, connection time with your partner. Yeah. I know [00:29:00] a lot of, um. I shouldn’t say no.

I You hear lots of time. It’s, you know, you can watch Sex in the City. A thousand. I’m just my age, but I love sex in the city. I do too, but it was so good. Yeah. Back in its day. But the, you know, the truth is I think a lot of women have experienced this where I am like, this is real women real talk, but like.

As a, as a wife, gonna, I’m gonna, my role is to give my husband sex on a regular basis. That’s part of my role in our relationship. Mm-hmm. And the, you know, the times where women talk about Yeah. I’m like staring at the ceiling sex. Right. Like we, we’ve all heard it before and I think what would be so great to change is start to shift that narrative for women where like, that’s not.

It’s really not okay to lay back and stare at the ceiling and feel that you should be giving your partner sex. And I think we’ve normalized it a little bit. And I think what we were just talking about is, is creating [00:30:00] that space where you’re having those intimate conversations with your partner. I think part of what’s so hard for women is that that’s.

Kind of what’s been out there for us. It is, you know, what we see in, in media on social media is women are overly sexualized. Mm-hmm. Uh, there’s a, a porn industry that is a very specific, you know, way women are supposed to be sexually. And I think it’s hard for a lot of women. To feel like they even have a voice when it comes to the, their, the, their sexual desires in a relationship.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I think it’s, I I think that’s, you know, a really Im important point to bring up, to be, to understand like, where, where does your thoughts. Where are your kind of beliefs on that spectrum? Yeah. Mm-hmm. And you know, I think understanding your partner’s needs and your needs and working together to kind of figure out what’s gonna work for the two of you [00:31:00] is, is really, really.

Uh, really important, and I do think there has been because of the oversexualization. Yeah. I think as women, we’ve almost been taught to kind of like shut down the sexual, like that feminine sexuality Yeah. In ourselves because it’s like, if it’s not this, yeah. If it doesn’t look this way right then it’s not.

Sexy or sexual. Yeah. And then we sort of just, were like, well, we’re not that. And so I think, you know, and we are in, especially in this kind of chapter in our lives, like I said, we are tapping into that kind of like energy where it’s like, get stuff done, go, go, go. Managing everyone. And so there is that kind of like.

There is, there isn’t that like opposite attraction and we’re also not sometimes not letting our partners step. And these are where the conversations need to go. Yeah. Mm-hmm. You know, it’s like if it’s, if this is what we need scheduled, like I need you to step, [00:32:00] like I’ll work on stepping into this version, but I need you to, like, you’re picking, you are taking care of the kids.

You are organizing the day. I’m not gonna say anything. Like, I won’t comment on what it is you decide to do or how you do it. Like allowing them to show up in a way that like allows you to not do anything and just show up and receive. So I think like these are parts, like it doesn’t happen overnight.

It’s like when you start doing something new, we expect that like, okay, I’m gonna try this new thing. It needs to happen immediately. You know, I’m like, this is like. Months of just communicating this work, this didn’t, when you did this, it just shut me down. Like I think, you know, we expect it to shift really quickly.

Well, in the, when you said show up, um, to receive, I think that’s like. Like bang on for so many women who have a hard time receiving. Yeah. We’ve done so many episodes on this where just, you know, women being, [00:33:00] you know, natural caregivers, we, we tend to put ourselves last and is, this is another area where we do put ourselves last or we can put ourselves last.

Yeah. And I think, you know, if. Going back to if we don’t know what we need, how can we ask for it? But I, I think also just being able to receive is really hard Yeah. For so many women. Mm-hmm. And somewhere there’s some script playing that there’s, there’s something going on back there where it’s like, this feels so self-indulgent.

Yeah. This feels like, you know, like this, I should be taking care of everyone else. Yeah. Including my partner. And that’s where I think that’s why this topic is so. I love this topic so much because it’s the ultimate intersect of the the requirement. Mm. To. Be in a receptive state, which is the opposite of so much, and it’s in direct [00:34:00] conflict like that.

This is the part because it’s actually a big issue in so many relationships. Yeah. And a lot of it hinges on the ability of a partner to be able to release. The need to show up for other people and only show up to receive pleasure. Hmm. And I think that’s why this is like so difficult for women in this stage because everything is working against that.

Right. And it is like, how do we, and I love, like, I think it’s, it’s so important to talk about because it’s actually. A reframe for so many other areas of our lives. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And you know, the partner pressure just kind of like puts a spotlight on it and pressure, but I think it’s actually really important.

Or else we would just ignore it and continue on. And now it’s like, okay, let’s start to work on it. But you can’t work on it from showing up for somebody else [00:35:00] ’cause that’ll give you more anxiety and add something else to do to your list, which puts you out of the receptive pleasure receiving. Like role you actually must be in, in order to enjoy this.

Yeah. And let’s add on the resentment that lets, gets loaded on top of that for women and then that cycle just gets, yeah, it gets thief of pleasure. Oh, resentment. Just, and then it’s, it just boils into like as, as much resentment as happens when there’s toothpaste stuck to the inside of the sink. Like it does, it all adds to the same list over time.

Mm-hmm. Which then makes you not wanna be intimate Yeah. With your partner. Right. And I think then you’re just resenting everything. Yeah. But I, I do think for women. Those two are like our, our brains are so connected mm-hmm. To our sexual desire. And so, I know I’m joking about the toothpaste in the sink, but we’ll stick with that example.

Yeah. And if you’ve asked your partner and it’s something that drives you nuts and they still do it, and it just, it keeps happening. It’s he and then you feel not heard. We talk about this a lot on the show. And, [00:36:00] and where, where does that show up? Over time. Mm-hmm. It, it will affect mm-hmm. Your relationship sexually.

It will, it will affect how you look at your partner and, and I think what you were saying is really boiling down to that communication piece, which is mm-hmm. We, we have probably less problems saying. Can you get your toothpaste outta the sink? Then we can communicating about when our needs aren’t being met right in bed.

Yeah. You can be like, I don’t like when you do that. Right. We’re we’re, but I’ll be like, I can pick on the toothpaste all day. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Well, and I think I, easier conversation, but she’s good conversation. I’m gonna be, you know, I think this is where it’s good to kind of get, you know, to the real talk conversations.

I think as women. If we’re gonna start to show up on a different level with our partner, and like Otto and I, we’ve been together for, we are high school 21 years. Oh, oh wow. High school sweetheart. So we have like, you know, history, even though we’re young, I’m like, we’re, you know, not, we’re getting up there, but.

I think there [00:37:00] is, if, if you show up and again what it might, this might irritate some people to, to say, but if you are showing up where it’s like the toothpaste is on the sink, your clothes are on the ground, like you are showing up, you are showing up in that kind of like mother state Yes. Of just kind of picking and picking and picking.

Yeah. And that puts like, that is a very like. That’s a way to kill masculine energy as well. Totally. And so I think as women, like, we have to kind of acknowledge and, and understand and be intentional around like, okay, what, what are we letting them, like how are they showing up and we are releasing and letting them like be, and how are we then, you know, not putting the pressure on ourselves to scrub the sink if we leave tooth.

Like who cares? You know? And I think. It’s like you see how many things you are, are going through your brain. I’m like, well, that’s not, they’re, they don’t [00:38:00] care. So why are we making this? It is killing us to have these lists that we must accomplish in order to feel like calm. And there’s other things behind it, of course, but I do think we must challenge like.

It’ll never be enough. Like they’ll never be able to do the things that, because they’re men and they just won’t, they just won’t. Right, right. Well, they, they just won’t. And, and I think like we can all agree the tooth, it’s never about the toothpaste Of course. Right. Like it’s always about something else.

Yeah. But we, and I. I know we’re sidebar, but I think it’s really important. I, I do think when we, when we talk about, we picked on toothpaste by the way, but when we, when we, when we call out the toothpaste, we’re upset because we feel like they didn’t maybe hear us earlier. I’m not feeling seen, um, maybe like, I’m not feeling attractive.

I don’t feel like you’re, I don’t feel like there’s desire there. There’s all those layers. But instead of communicating or calling that out, it’s much easier for for us to [00:39:00] default to. Why is there toothpaste in the sink? Yeah. We avoid the hard conversations. Yeah. Yeah. And we might, and that, that’s the core piece is that if we don’t, you know, if we just keep going in that cycle, we know that it’s not gonna like, that won’t.

Like that won’t lead to, you know, improvements in intimacy and connection. It will, you know, resentment building over time kills connection. Mm-hmm. Because you’re like, why I don’t even wanna connect with you. I have no interest in this. Mm-hmm. Like, we’re not on the same page. I don’t feel love. I don’t. I don’t feel desired.

And that’s so important. You like, you need, you want to feel desired. That is like, it’s like women wanna feel loved. Huge. Yeah. Yes. You know, and at the end of the day, that’s how we receive love is in different ways, of course. But having those conversations is really important. And I have found, and like in listening and, and working with, you know, clients and my own partner, like I have found that.[00:40:00]

Taking the first step in being the one to show and, and. Can start to kind of reverse the cycle. Mm-hmm. Because it’s very hard to depend on someone else, right? Like if we can’t communicate what it is that we need, starting to kinda understand like, okay, well what, what do you need to feel loved and how can I show up differently to like actually like show that to you in a different way.

That is maybe like how you need to feel. I have found that to be one of the most, and it’s very hard when you feel resentment ’cause you already feel like you’re doing so many things, but. Showing up and understanding can start to shift the cycle so that they’re like, okay, well what do you need? And they mm-hmm.

It can start to like shift the mentality. Yeah. We did a whole episode on love languages and it’s how important that is in a relationship and it’s understanding what your partner needs. Mm-hmm. And how they receive love and that. It’s so critical in any relationship and it, it does definitely layer down [00:41:00] into, on that desire side and wanting to be intimate with, with your partner.

Mm-hmm. And, and feeling that they find you attractive. Right. Yeah. So important. And I think too, I. I’m just gonna go back to toothpaste for one second. Yeah. Mm-hmm. But what I do wanna say is when you’re really connected with your partner, you don’t notice the toothpaste. No. Yeah. You don’t. And it doesn’t, or you might notice it, but it doesn’t, it doesn’t bother you the same way it did before.

Yeah. And I think that’s really at the core of it, is when you’re really connected, the toothpaste doesn’t mm-hmm. Bother you because you’re having real conversations about the real things that are going on in your relationship. Yeah. That’s such a great point. Yeah, it is such a good point. And I think. We don’t talk about that enough though.

Yeah, because I think there is this view that. Well, the people that are connected, it’s because the toothpaste is cleaned outta the sink. Yeah. And because this and because that, and I’m like, that’s like, if we think that that is what is going to make us feel connected, if it’s all done in a way that makes us feel [00:42:00] comfortable, then we’re never gonna get to that place.

You know? So I think the resentment Yeah. Gets you to a point where it’s like you, you either have the conversations or you don’t. Yeah. And I, I think. It’s important to stress. It’s it’s work. Work. It’s work. And it can feel it’s uncomfortable work. Yes, exactly. It can feel so uncomfortable mm-hmm. In the moment, but afterwards, yeah.

Like it’s almost like. It’s like if you hate going to the dentist. Yeah. And you go and then you come out and your teeth are all clean. You’re like, this is amazing. Why don’t I do this sooner? The dentist. Yeah. But I love the dentist after. Well, I hate the dentist. Yo. I thought you said you love the dentist.

No, I hate the dentist. Yeah. I have like such a fear, but I’m like, and then you come. It’s uncomfortable. I have to. Right, exactly. I’m like, yeah, that’s the best thing. Well, maybe not the best thing ever, but you feel. But you feel good because you, yes. Yeah. And I always, after those hard conversation, I love, like Eric and I, after we have like a, yeah, a difficult one, we come out and we’re like, oh, we did that work.

And we like, we, we applaud ourselves. Actually, we do it all the time. We’re like, we did, we did a hard thing. [00:43:00] Yeah. And we’re like, and then we. Feel more connected and this Yes. Yeah. You feel so connected. Yeah. Yeah. And it sounds silly, but even you just saying like, and we applaud ourselves. We do. But I think but I, I love that because I think celebrating as a couple, um, well, celebrating yourself, first of all, in, in choosing to have a difficult conversation and celebrate that, but then celebrating as a couple, like we did Exactly.

We did that. We had that hard conversation. You just feel, yeah. Yeah. Good. But I think historically we just come from relationships where we couldn’t do that. Mm-hmm. And so when we do it, yes. We’re both like, I wouldn’t have shown up like this five years ago. Yeah. So now when you show up like that, we’re both like applauding ourselves.

Yeah. We’re also like, yeah. And it takes time, right. Especially if you’re coming from a historical past, a relationship, whatever, your upbringing where you’re not used to that, that takes. Time, and like you said, it takes work, but they get easier. Yes. Like I, what I will say is the hard conversations get easier.

Mm-hmm. I’m not saying they’re less uncomfortable, the [00:44:00] uncomfortableness is going to be there, but they get easier in the sense that, I think the fear of if Yeah. If you’re in a safe relationship. Yeah. The fear of being judged or the fear of this person might leave me. Mm-hmm. Or the, whatever your fear is.

Mm-hmm. That diminishes so it gets easier to have them. It doesn’t mean they’re less. Yeah. Uncomfortable. Yeah. And I feel like creating that like safety allows you to explore other areas Yeah. As well where you can show up, you know, differently, or you can shift things around and you don’t feel weird about it, you know?

Yeah. I think that it’s like creating this like safety net around, you know, this connection where you can then be like, okay, well you show up for me and I’ll show up for you. Mm-hmm. So I think, uh. You nailed it. It’s so important to have those and not avoid, because it’s gonna be hard and it’s gonna take a lot, and we might fight or it might get heated.

I’m like, yep, those things are all true. And you’ll come out of it. Yeah. You will come out of it. It’s, it’s the same as [00:45:00] having like a financial conversation mm-hmm. With your partner. Like a lot of couples don’t wanna talk about it. Yeah. But you need to talk about it. Right. It’s a core part of so many relationships.

Mm-hmm. And, and I think we don’t prioritize the conversations about mm-hmm. You know, our intimacy. Mm-hmm. Nearly as often. Yeah. Um, okay. We are getting near the end. Yeah. Any final thoughts? Anything you would want our female listeners to take away from today? And we’re talking about libido, sexual health.

Any, any highlights, tips? Any pieces of advice? Uh, well, the schedule, schedule time to have the conversations Yeah. Or have connection is important. Um, if you feel exhausted and depleted and you have a lot of physical symptoms, conversations won’t get you out of. That. Yeah. So working on your body and understanding your own hormones and your own physical health is very core so that you can show up in a way that you feel, you know, when you’re gonna come outta that.

Yeah. You’re gonna be like, we [00:46:00] did that. Yeah. ’cause you, you feel, you know, you, you’ve done the work Yeah. Uh, on yourself first, which is like this, the whole conversation is, it’s okay to put yourself first. It’s actually. In important to put yourself first. Mm-hmm. In order to show up for someone else, you gotta put yourself first.

So you know, ex listen to the other podcasts on hormones and menopause. ’cause that’s where a lot of the hormone information is. That is very relevant. Uh, especially during this time where, you know, I would say. It’s like almost every single woman I talk to in this journey has, uh, their libido and, um, connection and desire is impacted significantly.

Yeah, I would say it’s like, it’s extremely rare to hear, uh, a woman say. Things are great and there’s no change. Thank you. So just to normalize that, yeah, you thank you for normalizing it. Thank you for being willing to have the conversation that I don’t think a lot of people are having. We would have you back any day on the show, so thank [00:47:00] you so much.

Great info. Uh, thank you for joining us. On today’s episode, uh, if you wanna learn more about Dr. Emma and how to reach Dr. Emma, we will include, uh, a link in the show notes to her Instagram. You can also check out nutri chem.com. If you found a tidbit in today’s episode, please like, share, and subscribe. You can also visit our website@livingrichly.me where you can sign up for our Facebook group.

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