You’ve Fixed the Problem. Why Don’t You Fell Better?

[00:00:00] But I came back with more empathy. Mm-hmm. Uh, more trust, uh, more compassion, uh, and definitely more peaceful. It does seem like after, when you have these breakthrough moments, so, so true what you just said, because your circle really does shrink. Creating your best version of yourself is the best version for your family, for your community Yeah.

And such. And we, we sometimes we forget that, right? Yeah. So a lot of growth to happen. A hundred percent. Like I’m, I’m at the, the. The, uh, the crawling stage of, of understanding some of this stuff and, and taking it all apart. And you do all the things. I’ve checked all the boxes and I’m still miserable.

Like this is this it. Uh, and then we start realizing, wait a second, I get to define what my life looks like.

Introduction & Episode Overview

Hi, and welcome to the Living Richly podcast. We’re so glad that you’ve joined us again today. I am. So pumped about today’s episode. Uh, we have returning guests. I’m about to reintroduce them [00:01:00] all to you, but they were with us back in September when we dropped a powerful episode called The Midlife Truth Bomb.

And we talked in that episode about the wall that each of us hit. Uh, that was kind of a wake up call for us to kind of reinvent our lives. And guys, I don’t think any of us were expecting this, but I remember each of you reaching out to me and saying. My social feed’s blowing up. My phone is blowing up.

People are texting me saying, I thank you for saying that. I feel the same way. Um, and, and it just really resonated with a lot of people. But today, uh, we want to touch base on those breakthrough moments, but w we, we really wanna talk about is not the walls so much that we hit, uh, but. The way forward, the daily walk after the breakthrough.

How do we keep healing? How do we keep growing? How do we keep showing up as the man that we want to be? Uh, and how do we resist some of those old scripts that are trying to creep back in on a, a daily basis? So, welcome back to all of you. I am so excited that you’re here. Of course, I’m joined by my co-host and partner in crime, uh, Rob Dale.

Good to have you here, [00:02:00] brother. Um, we have on my, uh, my left, I have Paul Rushforth, former pro athlete, uh, recovering addict. Uh, right superstar in the real estate world and very, very successful businessman, uh, who’s gonna be talking to us about a really unique experience he had in South America. Chris Dorie AI Mastermind.

Um, and he is ai. He is ai. He’s actually not real folks. Chris, this is a program. Uh, this is ai. No, Chris is here. And, uh, Chris is a great friend, um, and a great businessman and also a real advocate for men’s mental health. Uh, so great to have you back, brother. Awesome. To be here. Love it. Yeah. Welcome back.

Welcome back, and another dear friend and a legend in the world of finance. You. Yeah, I like that. I, I worked on these introductions. Okay. This is, this is when AI is broken. Like, God, what happened to ai? What happened? Having a bad day. Glit. It’s glitching. It’s glitching. No, but, uh, um, uh, a leader in the world of finance, uh, you are a community [00:03:00] champion.

Uh, and you’re the guy. I tell people, the guy most likely to give you the shirt off his back, uh, ’cause you’re all around is such a, uh, a great champion of people. Welcome back. Thank you. Great to have you on the show. Happy a good. Yeah. So this is gonna be a great conversation. We’re gonna kind of zero in on each of you.

Um, and we’re gonna start with Paul.

Paul’s Ayahuasca Journey in Costa Rica

Paul, you were in Costa Rica last year, and I have heard about this thing called Ayahuasca. Um, it’s, it’s, uh, it’s a medicine that is made from stuff you find in the jungle. Yep. Uh, and people go away for these really, these like. Spiritual experiences that are quite mind bending.

Um, and I remember when I saw your posts that you were going, I was like, oh my God, I wanna hear all about this. So tell us first about the experience and what it created for you. What did that generate for you? It was powerful. It was absolutely powerful. And to be honest with you, I’ve wanted to do it for years.

And it was, it was probably because of, um, um. What’s his name? One of the hockey players who went through it, he [00:04:00] suffered from concussions just like me. He was an addict just like me. Mm. Um, drawing a blank. Daniel, uh, car, Daniel Carc, uh, he was on death’s door and, and he spoke and he got healthy from it. And I was like, I have to do this.

Mm. Problem being, I was a raging alcoholic. Right. And you have to be sober for 30 days, and I couldn’t go sober for 30 days. So finally when I got help for that and I became sober. Um, I was able to go, yeah. And I was looking forward to it. I was looking to, um, I had really three things that I wanted to, to, to discover.

Uh, one was I’ve been an addict for years and I, and I wanted to remove that compulsion to drink and, and I, drugs has been way long in the past, but I wanted to remove that compulsion. That was one of the things. Two, um. I’m never satisfied. I have to keep going and keep going. And I get, I get where I get and I need more, and I get where I get and I was like, I, that I, it’s gonna kill me.

Yeah. No one, no one around this table can relate to that one. Oh, no. But it’s gonna, it’s gonna kill me. So I wanted to find out that. And the other one was I’ve, I played pro hockey for, for years, and I suffer from concussions. My brain feels like it doesn’t [00:05:00] function well, and I wanted to see if it could heal my brain like it did.

Daniel Carello. Yeah, so and so, so, so heal, heal the addiction. You’re looking for freedom from the addiction. You’re looking for, um, healing from the, the, the physical stuff. The, the men, the, yeah, the mind stuff, the, the memory, everything else. Um, and you’re looking to, um, get sort of set free from this constant need to drive, to drive and succeed.

Yeah. Yeah. So

Unpacking the Root of Paul’s Drive

I found out the drive portion was. How I was raised and I was always trying to impress my mom and get, get the gratitude from my mom. And so I just, once I got there, I need to show her more. I need to show her more. Right. It just Right. And listen it curse or treat like, I mean, I’m successful because of it, but it’s also been a curse for me as well.

Mm. So, uh, you know, I’m in the jungle in Costa Rica at a really nice place. What did you call it? Here, let’s call it, I’m in the jungle, but five star jungle. Yeah. But you think four nights you’re drinking this, this medicine. Yeah. And it’s the most. Powerful thing ever. What does it taste like? Can I square on the show?

Yeah, you can. You can. Shit, [00:06:00] yeah, that’s what I’ve heard. Like absolute shit. And it’s so powerful. And I think my only thing is I’m 50% of my journey in the way that I let go, but I didn’t quite let go enough in the way that I still had that sense of, I, I can’t just let go. I’m, I’m alone in a jungle. I can’t just go crazy one night on this, on this powerful medicine.

So I feel like I do have to go back and finish this journey. Mm. But I got some really powerful things from this. I got the compulsion where I. Or I saw the vision of how I was raised, which was beautiful by the way, my, I, my parents raised, so this is one of the experiences, literally had a, yeah, I, I had this vision of how I was raised and how my dad loved me compared to how my mom loved me.

And then it showed me how I loved my kids. Mm-hmm. You know, and, and my dad was a little bit more nurturing, where my mom grew up very and a really tough childhood. Um, and so her love was different than my dad’s. Both beautiful, but just different. And I found that. I parent my kids, like my mom parented me.

Mm. And I have to look back at that because my mom parented me to be a champion, but also harder. Mm. Right. So, and, and I think [00:07:00] that’s why I keep drive, because I wanna impress my mom. Yeah. So, so I, I, I realized all this and I realized, you know, how I can correct that and how I can deal with my kids differently.

Love that. But two of the most powerful things for me were, uh, the addiction part. And, you know, I, I was always someone where, you know, the addiction doc would say, you know, you could never drink again. Right. And the truth was, I could never drink again because I knew if I had one, I had 47. Right. So, so it just, it, I don’t know what it did, but it just drew out my compulsion to need that.

That drink. And I’ve always said, I just wanna be a social drinker. And I say, you can’t be a social drinker, Paul, you’re an alcoholic. Right. Well, you know what, I don’t know how, what happened or, or what came about, but I literally am a social drinker today. You know, like, I can, I can, you can, you can, you can enjoy a drink.

And it doesn’t, yeah. I don’t like drinking. Yeah. But if I want to go have a glass of wine with my wife, I could go with my girlfriend so I can go have a, a glass of wine. Yeah. And it doesn’t affect me. It just, it. But one of the most powerful things we did, you do yoga, you do, uh, breath work, which is. The most powerful [00:08:00] thing I’ve ever done is breath work.

Uh, meditation was beautiful. This resort was, was a, was a, it was in a blue zone in Costa Rica, which is what The healthiest zones in the world. Yeah. There’s only five of them in the world. That’s right. Food. The air. There’s a, there’s an entire series of shows. There’s a documentary on, uh, Netflix about the Blue Zones and, uh, oh.

We were actually in the same blue zone. You were, uh, about the same time last year. Yeah. Really? Yeah. But one of the most powerful things was, is

The Purge & Ceremony Experience

I remember after night one, you’re, you’re supposed to purge, you know, you’re supposed to go to the bathroom and you’re supposed to puke a lot. And I heard everyone puking and everyone gonna, the bathroom.

I wasn’t doing any of it. And I was like, so I was drinking more and I was like, when is supposed to come? But the beauty is when you, when you purge you, you’re literally purging your traumas and you’re demons. Wow. I wasn’t doing it after night one, I was frustrated and then night two came around and I started to purge.

I started to, to vomit and, and, and get out some of my demons.

The Breathwork Breakthrough

After night four, I remember I was doing breath work and I had, this is where my, I’d say my revelation came. I was [00:09:00] doing breath work and I remember talking to the counselor before this breath work and I said to him, said to him. I never got anything on my concussions.

My, I, nothing happened with my co concussions. I still don’t remember. I don’t remember from 16 to when I was born. Mm. And which really hurt my parents because they gave me a great childhood, but I couldn’t remember any of it. And I really wanted to remember things. I, and I just wanted that cured. Yeah. And, and I was doing this breath work.

And if you and anyone’s not done breath work, I recommend breath work. It’s so powerful. And it’s not just breathing, it’s like changing your breath. And, and I, you literally. Hallucinate, like you have an outof body experience. And I had this outof body experience and I remember being mad and I had, I was floating and people might find this hokey pokey, but I’m telling you, this was the most beautiful experience I’ve probably I’ve ever had.

Try not to get emotional, but um, it’s okay to get emotional in this show. Yeah, yeah. But I was, I was literally floating and I was met by God, an angel, whatever you wanna call it. I was met by an, to me it was God, I’m not a religious person, but it was God to me. [00:10:00] I was like, I remember being mad and I said, you know what?

I’m mad. I didn’t, I didn’t cure anything with my head. My concussions are still affecting me. Keep my concussions affect your addiction, your everything right? Like that, it, it affects a lot. And he said, my son, come take a look at you. I remember hovering over myself on night one when I got, I, I thought I got nothing out of this.

Mm. And I looked down at myself and there was like lightning and thunder and everything going through my head, and I had smoke coming outta my brain. And I was like, what is happening? I’m, I’m watching myself doing this. Yeah. And, and it’s just, everything’s coming in my brain now. I was worried for myself.

I’m like, what’s happening to me? What’s happening to me? And I came back and I, and after the breath work was done, I was like, holy crap. I was, the next day I was able to call my dad and remember half my childhood. Wow, wow, wow. It was so intense. Yeah. It was so intense. And it was, I never thought it was possible.

So I mean, so now I’m able,

Paul’s Transformation & Healing Results

I’m able to be a social drinker. I feel like I’ve cured, uh, my, not cured my concussions, [00:11:00] but you know, I’m tremendous progress, tremendous progress. Like, I called my dad and I was like, dad, I remember our old, our old house. I remember, you know, the vacations. I remember you taking me shoe shopping.

I remember this. I remember like, I remember so much about my past and I was like. Holy crap. So, and these stories are actually quite common for folks who, uh, uh, do ayahuasca and go there for the ceremony. Some folks report, nothing much happens, and then others report these powerful spiritual experiences.

And we were talking before the show, I said, listen, given my, our background, uh, you know, we used to be church leaders and involved in. Pretty crazy church I’d call it. And, uh, there are spiritual experiences I had that weren’t ayahuasca related, but would, I would describe them as visions, walking visions.

Yeah. Things that were transformational. Um, and obviously this was a powerful, powerful, we talk about breakthrough moments. Oh, that’s kind of a Right. Like a, a, this was. This, I mean, I, I’ve been whatever, 30 years an alcoholic and, and you know, now I, I don’t even need to drink. I don’t care to drink. It’s, that’s cured.

Yeah. Um, you know, I might, my [00:12:00] head’s better. Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. And, you know, I just, anyone who hasn’t done it, I strongly rec scariest shit you’ll ever do. Like, it is the scary, the medicine is scary as hell. Yeah. And, and I, I’ve said this before, like, and I just said this, I, I need to go back. Right. Like I’m 50% of my journey.

I know I have more in me. Yeah. Because I know now. What to expect, and I’ll just let loose and let it happen. I love that. I love that. Let loose. They, they talk a lot about an ayahuasca. Um, Kate was watching a great documentary. We, uh, I highly recommend this channel by the way, streaming channel called Gaia.

Um, it streams all kinds of stuff that is, uh, you know, spiritual, uh, about mindset and the inner work. And so like. We spend so much on things like Netflix and Disney. This is a great subscription. And they had this whole documentary six part series following 12 people in the jungle of Costa Rica. Yeah, I don’t think they did Five star though.

Five Star Jungle. I think there was more like three star at best. Um, but they follow the participants throughout their week and then they, um, um, revisit them a year later. Yeah. And the [00:13:00] important thing that keeps coming up is, um, and this is true not just Ayahuasca, I think it’s true of anytime we have a breakthrough moment, it’s again, and that’s the focus of the show today is okay, but what does it look like now on Monday morning for you?

Right. And what does, in they, they use the word integration, how do you integrate the work into your daily practice? So I’m curious for you. I’m curious, uh, about your journey. It’s been about a year now, right? Last February, yeah, last February. So almost a year. Um, it’ll be a year by the time this episode airs.

Yeah. Um, uh,

Integrating the Breakthrough: Paul’s Daily Walk

what surprised you most? After Costa Rica, you’ve come back with these powerful changes, but you’re still in Paul Rush fourth’s skin. Yeah. And what surprised you the most? What did you find the, the most difficult to integrate? Well, I said this earlier, I, I, I got this experience, but I’m still tripping along the way.

Right. I’m definitely tripping along the way because I still have that a little bit of compulsion to do better and do more and this and that. But I came back with more empathy. Mm-hmm. More trust, [00:14:00] uh, more compassion, uh, and definitely more peaceful. Mm. You know, if you guys remember the last one I talked about purpose.

Yeah. Passion and peace. Peace, yeah. You know, and I, I’ve never been able to live that way. Mm. I’ve always had, I felt was a purpose. You know, I’ve always had passion for things, but what I realized, I didn’t have a purpose or passion. I just wanted to work and make money and be the best where, whereas now, you know, my purpose is different.

My purpose is giving back. My purpose is helping, you know, my passion is doing that for people and helping people, you know, and my peace is where I, I’m at peace. Like I, I’ve, I’ve, I’ve eliminated toxic people for my life. I don’t let them take me down the rabbit hole. Um, I’m a little, I’m still Afra. I, I still consider, so I’m still in the circle, I think.

Yeah. Yeah. You’re either, I’m not one of those toxic people. Yeah. But I hope, I hope we can come back to that. Later, like how I, I’d be interested to know how you did that. How did you kind of categorize toxic and not toxic and how did, I don’t know if it’s okay to jump into that course right this second, but, but I, I’d be really, well, I just found that anyone, I’m mean that right now, by the way.

Like how do I, that’s a great question. How do I do that? [00:15:00] How do I do that? To be honest with you, it’s anyone who doesn’t move me forward and make me feel peaceful about myself is not worthy of being in my life. Truthfully, it’s not worthy of being in my life. And I had some toxic people in my life and I, you know, mention any names, but I had some toxic people in my life that, you know, some people say, why don’t you talk to that person anymore?

I said, I got nothing against them. Great person, love them, but. I just don’t want them in my life. Mm. I just don’t want them bringing me down. I don’t want them to, to change the way I feel about myself. I’m on a journey now. You know? My journey’s different than what it used to be. I mean, I still wanna run a very successful real estate company.

I still wanna be the best in the world, but at the same time, I. I’m okay if I’m not. Mm. I’m okay if I’m not. It. It, it does seem like after, when you have these breakthrough moments, it’s so, so true what you just said because your circle really does shrink. Uh, I think all of us are people who are, we’re big into networking about who, you know, building those relationships.

And as you start to grow and develop and see these experiences happening, you, you really do want to limit. The [00:16:00] people, uh, you, you guys are gonna laugh. Okay. I’m, I’ve become a swifty and what I really have. Me too. Yeah. Oh, that, that documentary is one of the, the documentary of the Aris tours. One of the best.

Highly recommended. It’s absolutely incredible. But when she was on the Kelsey Brothers, uh, we’ll just edit that out of the proposal. Yeah. The notion of, the notion of you only have so much energy to spend, who are you going to, who are you investing your energy into? And you’re absolutely right if you want.

That breakthrough to continue, you’ve got to limit the people who are draining that energy out of your life. And one of the things, dude, just to answer your question, one of the things that really hit me like a ton of bricks is, you know, I’m 51 and you know, a lot of the people I played hockey with.

They’re, they’re dying. Like I’m seeing them on Facebook, they’re dying. I’m seeing friends dying, and even if they’re not friends or Facebook, you see people dying in their sixties now and their seventies now. And, and I’m like, okay, I’m 51. Yeah. Am I gonna spend the next 10 years chasing that shiny dollar or [00:17:00] am I gonna spend the next 10 years taking care of me?

I love that. Right? Yeah. And so, and before I used to say I’m a selfish guy taking care of me. Now it’s like, I’m selfish if I don’t take care of me. Yeah. I love that. So, uh, I, I’m curious, uh,

What Growth Looks Like for Paul Now

what does growth look like for you now in your daily life? Again, when we talk about the daily walk, uh, you talked about, you know, there, I still get tripped up.

I mean that I, that’s true for all of us, right? That we’re still working, uh, on that. Better version of ourselves, best version of ourselves. What does growth look like for you on the daily? You know what, it’s funny if you would asked me that two years ago, growth was like, okay, so I wanna get to 750 sales.

I wanna, you know, that’s what growth looked like before, right? Business. Yeah. And I still have to focus on my business. That’s funds, that funds my life. But for me, my growth is, can I find more peace? You know? Can I, can I? Have more vacations, more experiences, more just have more of an enriched life. And, and I, and I used to find like, you know, now for me it used to be money buys happiness.

Now it’s [00:18:00] money buys opportunity. Yeah. It buys opportunity. It allows me to give back, allows me to help people, it allows me to do things like that. So I’ll never stop making money because it allows me to help people. But. For me, growth now is just like, how do I get better at loving myself? Yeah. How do I get powerful?

How do I get better at, at being more comfortable in my skin? My skin used to be on fire now. My skin is just beautiful. Like, it’s just, that’s how I see myself is like a beautiful, you know, and I, I, last time we talked, I said I used to look in the mirror. I’d see a fucking monster. Yeah. Now I see a really nice good.

Person. That’s, that’s who I see now. That’s, that’s what I see. Yeah. That’s massive. You know, massive brother. Thank you. Thank you for sharing your story. Oh, my pleasure. That’s so, so good. Uh, I think I was one of the, one of the ones that texted you right away. Yeah. And I saw your Ayahuasca experience. I’m like, I wanna check this out someday.

It’s But you at $700, right? Like, there’s so many people I wanted to know about it. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think there’s an openness now. People are fed up with their day to day and they’re tired of struggling with the same things. And we’re looking, we’re looking for answers. Right. Rick, you’ve been on. Quite a journey.

Rick’s Wake-Up Call & Breathwork Experience

We’re gonna [00:19:00] shift the focus on, on you now. Uh, I remember a moment on the show Yeah. Uh, of that episode that dropped in last September. Um, I think we all got choked up. Uh, you, you included, you, you set us all off talking about just some of the challenges you were facing and how that was waking you up to stuff.

Um, talk to us with, to, to whatever degree you’re comfortable about. What’s been, what’s the wall that you hit and what’s the walk look like for you these days? It’s good. Let’s, let’s start with the thing that made me cry and we hope you cry again. You’re real man cry. You’re welcome. Yeah, yeah. Uh, interestingly enough, and I’ll jump back and, and I, I promise I’ll answer the question, but, um, also had a breath work experience.

Um, and, uh, it was really transformational. It was really moving and it, it, um. It, it didn’t involve ayahuasca and, and that, I feel like that’s, that, to me anyway, there’s levels to this, that, that seems like that’s the advanced course. I was on the [00:20:00] beginner track, but the, uh, a friend recommended this, it was an event.

It was at the Brook Street Hotel close by and had no clue what I was walking into. And, and it also was transformational. And so I, I would also recommend that people explore it. Look at it. There’s, um, there’s different organizations in, in Ottawa or, or throughout. The country that, uh, that host events that do things that are very intimate and small.

And, uh, this one friend, uh, she does, uh, Kundalini activation, which is kind of, I would put that in between the two, or, you know, breathwork kind of does one activation of us. And, and then the, this energy work, I guess is, is, is best described as also was kind of something else. So, um, we’ll be doing some energy work in Costa Rica when we go back.

Yeah, we’re looking forward to that. It’s, yeah. Yeah. She studied in Bali and, and it was. Really, really interesting. But it was her recommendation to at least just go to this breath work session and have an experience. Well, in that experience, it, it really did open up, um, for me, and I hadn’t, I haven’t really talked about this yet, but the, [00:21:00] the, as you were speaking, Paul, it, it got me thinking like this, there’s this moment,

Rick’s Vision: Adoption & Releasing Abandonment

I’m, I’m adopted.

Biological mother was very, very young. And, uh, that breath work when you kind of, you know, I, I had to, I need science sometimes, right? Yeah. So I’m like, okay, I think I hyperventilated to the point of, uh, seeing visions. Hmm. Right? Like if that’s the science, who cares what the science is. But if, for me anyway, that was the, okay, so hyperventilated to the point of seeing this, but then I was accessing parts of my brain that probably without that hyperventilation you can’t, you can’t access right.

And starting to, I, if you can envision these doors, and there’s a lot of doors that I’ve, that I maybe, I knew they were there, but until you get to that state, you can’t open the doors. Yeah. I would think going to the other levels, you can actually get into those rooms and, and, and. Cl clean out the clutter, maybe with, I love that with ayahuasca, but with ayahuasca, like, uh, people, again, we’re not saying you should go do ayahuasca.

No, you should pursue it if it’s something that’s of interest to you and you think it’s [00:22:00] gonna be a useful tool in your journey. But literally, civilizations for thousands of years, uh, even ancient civilizations using some form. Of drug induced or plant-based induced, uh, state to help them access sort of things that are difficult to access normally.

Right. It’s almost like the veil in those, we were talking about this before the show. Yeah. It’s almost like the in, in, in those situations, the veil between this world and whatever it is on the other side becomes very thin. Uh, or maybe it’s the veil between. What’s actually locked up inside our minds and our spirits that is locked away and we can’t access, and all of a sudden that veil becomes thin and we can cross over.

Right. Well, and this is exactly what, what happened that, that evening where I. Yeah, I’m gonna get choked up again. So my, this is, no, not my, I have also great parents and, uh, had a, had a good childhood. It’s, this isn’t the, this isn’t everybody else’s. Uh, or the, the common story of the childhood created the trauma that created the, the thing.

And we can point directly [00:23:00] at the childhood, not necessarily in my case, however it brought me to this vision. You saw, you know, what you would. Consider, God, I saw my biological mother holding me in and I’m floating above the delivery room. Wow. That’s good. And I’m seeing, and I, I got to say thank you. I got to actually say thank you.

Mm. And this facilitator was excellent in post. Had us actually turn and talk to somebody else in the room and share our experience. And I got to kind of now process it without the whatever state I was in. Yeah. And be able to share with this person who didn’t speak English, which was interesting enough.

She only spoke Russian. So it was also like for where I was at in this journey. It perfect. It’s perfect. I like, she’s so, I didn’t have to go to Costa Rica for this. I got, I could’ve went to the Brook Street. Brook Street. You could have done five star at the Brook Street. Right? Right. Started this. Started the journey anyway, but it did allow, and that if you.

You know, if, if you’re gonna ask similar questions to what you asked Paul, like where did this start? Uh, I don’t think before hearing what Paul just said, I would’ve [00:24:00] pointed to, that’s where it started for me. But that’s exactly where it started for me. Wow. I got to say thank you and probably start to release, or the beginning stages of releasing a lot of abandonment.

That has probably driven everything else. I’m coming to this realization like now, by the way, like this is not, that’s like I have notes. Scratch. But isn’t that, isn’t that the power of creating space? Yeah. For especially for men to talk about their journey is that often it’s not until. You talk, you, you, you talk about it, you hear yourself say the words and penny start to drop.

Yes. Therapy is incredibly helpful. Uh, spiritual experiences, ayahuasca, breath work, energy work, all these things are powerful aids in that journey. But the most basic form that all of us have access to is talking to someone. Mm-hmm. Opening up about what we’re going through and, uh, ’cause this happened to you on the first show.

Yeah. Yeah, we’re doing this a lot. It’s just like a repeat. Thanks for the therapy guys. [00:25:00] This is, this is real time. I’ll send you the bill out. Yeah, please, Don. But it’s also interesting because Rick, you asked the question a bit earlier about how do you decide who’s the toxic people? Yeah. Who are the people that you move away from?

And I think you answered it just in your response there is. I wanna surround myself with, with men that I can have these conversations. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Because you can’t have them with just anyone now. No. I’ve got friends in my life or people that were in my life, if I brought up these kind of conversations, they’d be like, yeah, yeah, whatever, whatever.

And now that’s hocus pocus garbage. Yeah. Yeah. Up football game. They, they couldn’t go to that emotional level. And so I think that’s one of the, I seek out men who I can have these kind of conversations with. ’cause I know that’s gonna better me, safe space. Safe space. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I love that. Yeah.

That’s, you’re seeing that, that’s, that’s, somebody recently shared this analogy, which, which I like, and, uh, we love analogies on podcasts and it, it was the, the living room conversations. The, the or the living room relationships. Mm. The, the front [00:26:00] porch relationships and the mailbox relationships, and starting to, for me anyway, the, the, the push was maybe start to think about your relationships specifically with, with your male friends as to who you would quite.

Literally invite into your living room to have a conversation who you should probably have conversations with on the front porch, and who is really suited to have mailbox? I love me. That’s a great analogy. I, I felt like if I didn’t invite everyone into the living room all. Can I swear all the fucking time?

Yeah. Then, then they were gonna abandon me, right? Yeah. And leave and like, oh, I’m not, I don’t, I don’t have worth to this person. If I don’t get everybody in. You set off the top, take my the shirt off my back for people. Well, my self-worth was tied to that. Yeah. It was like, if I don’t have everybody at the, at, at this level of conversation.

Yeah. And the reality is not everyone’s ready for this level of conversation and in fact, trying to bring people there. When they’re not ready for it or I’m not ready for it, or that’s not the right dynamic. Uh, it just creates that. Maybe that’s the toxicity. Yeah. My, my story, which jarred your brain. About what?

[00:27:00] Yeah. Throwing your notes out. Yeah. I’m no psychologist, but tells me you have a little bit more work to do. Maybe. Right, buddy? I, I got a lot of work. Well, we all do. We all do. We all do. This is real time as a guest, but when I went, when I went in for the shy wash, they said, you know, come in with your intentions, but I’ll tell you what.

The medicine’s gonna tell you what your intentions are. Right? Right. The, the universe may have a different plan, the universe might have a different plan may for you. Yeah. So that’s something you may wanna focus on. Yeah. Well, the, the, in the last episode, we talked about getting in the mud and with other people and the number of people that reached out.

I also wasn’t, didn’t realize the responsibility. Mm. Think you, uh, also further ahead in the, in the. And the responsibility that having these conversations or putting yourself out there also means that it, it is, it does become a two-way street. And there’s some people really craving some living room level Yeah.

Shit in their life and don’t know where to find that. Don’t know. And it doesn’t always have to be mud, it’s just maybe it’s to share the joys and share the, the happy times. Not always the, the negative or the down. Yeah. And Eric, you know, the beauty, and Rob did the beauty of this show too, is like, after we aired episode one, like I left and I was [00:28:00] like, holy crap.

I shared a lot. Oh yeah. And I was like, how did you, did you have a. I call it a, uh, a vulnerability hangover. Well, I did. I, I did. And I was just like, you know, who’s gonna wanna. With me now, and I’m like, like I same. I just, I revealed a ton of stuff and this that, but you know how many people like I was at Shoppers and people would come up and hug me and say, yeah, thank you.

They’d be crying on my shoulder. Thank you so much for sharing this. And I probably did about three shows after this just because people want to hear this shit. Yeah. They want to know this shit. They, this the way we used to be in these capes we put on, these masks we put on, people are just scared to take ’em off.

And what we’re doing here is we’re taking off our fucking masks. Yeah. And then people love it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well there’s that, that authenticity that, uh, you know, that’s like the most Googled word I’ve been told of 2024, I think was authenticity. And people are, are in the, in the environment where we do have a, a, a lot of manufactured versions of ourselves, but also like truly manufactured versions Yeah.

Of people. Yeah. That, uh, that [00:29:00] finding. Um, ourselves and then being able to present truly who we are. I think it’s meaningful for other people who are in a different stages. Like for me, it was meaningful. ’cause the same thing happened in the last episode, right? You were sharing a bit, Paul and Chris, you’re sharing a bit.

And then I was like reflecting in real time. Yeah. Trying to not sound like a blubbering idiot while I’m sharing like, huh. These are the, the, the thoughts we’re in real time. This is just happening again now. Rights are, the dots are connecting. The dots are connecting. Yeah. And it’s say, huh, abandonment. And they said this meant that I wasn’t being authentic.

’cause if I was authentic, people might. Completely screw off. They’re not gonna wanna do business with me. Yeah. Who wants to do business with a guy that, that gets down on one knee and sings to Eric in a, in a, what should have been a corporate conference? Oh yeah. That was great by the way. Can I jump in?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Please do. Like, the thing I think is that why do we care? Why does this, like, you know, society does. Yeah. That’s the problem. Yeah. Yeah. Well, just because society does doesn’t mean that we have to. Yeah. Right. And I think for me, um, and I, I think I wonder it’s the ability to care about what’s [00:30:00] important and align values.

It comes down to that. ’cause otherwise, I think. I think one of the superpowers that I, I, if I could wish upon my kids or anybody here, is the ability to not care about the things that are not that important. Yeah. Right? Yeah. Like, like a million people could see this podcast, right? Should we care? I wish.

Should we care? Should we care? Should, we should, like Eric Care? There’s a obviously a incentive there for caring there, but should we really care what other people think? That much. ’cause I think that’s the problem. I think that’s what happens with men. But you’re, yeah. Sorry, I’m jumping in. No, go ahead, please.

He’s just interrupting you mid-sentence. Yes, they care. He should, this is everyone watch. So, so, and, and, and it’s, it’s, some of the reflection work I’m doing right now is exactly that question. And, and I think the reason we care is ’cause if we don’t do the inner work. Yeah, to really to figure out that initial wound, that initial, uh, whatever shaming [00:31:00] moment.

Um, and this is what we see in society. I we’re, I think every one of us around this table had been guilty of this, is we chase the reputation, we chase what. Other people think of us or how we’re going to mm-hmm. That, that, that stems back to we’re brainwashed. Yeah. Pretty much. Well, we’re, but, and I’d love to say, I’d love to say to my kids, yeah, hey, don’t care about what other people think.

It, it, it, it won’t resonate. What I will say to them instead is Let’s pursue where you, where, where this care first started, and figure that out. If you can figure out those initial wounds, you’ll get to a point where you stop caring. But I also think there’s a, there’s a. Self-confidence aspect to that, right?

Like, so a hundred percent agree with you that figuring out who you are and, and, and I’m, I’ve, I’m of the mindset that no matter how you’re raised, there’s probably, I don’t wanna call it trauma per se, but there is issues that, uh, I think everybody that who’s been raised by anybody, even the most perfect parents, which there doesn’t exist, [00:32:00] um.

You still, they have trauma. Yeah. Like no matter what you do, you have, you heard this one? They say that like you should, as a parent, you should save up for your kid. Two, two funds. One for your kid’s education and one for their therapy. Yeah. Because you’re gonna fuck them up one way or another. Yeah. Like, you’ll do your best, but you’re gonna, you’re hopefully you gonna, you’re gonna.

If you’re doing the work, you’re passing on more good than bad, uh, from your own childhood, but you’re still passing on, um, it’s a mixed, it’s a mixed equation, right? I, I believe that what we’re doing here helps more than anything you could possibly do because you’re right, like you get to have a million people listen to this and might resonate with, you know, three or four people.

But we’ve helped three or four people. But you know, truthfully, uh, I’m here for two reasons. One is selfishly. This makes me feel good Giving back. Yeah. This, this brings me, you know, I talk about that purpose and passion and peace, like this is part of my purpose and part of my passion. It’s making me feel good by one, letting [00:33:00] it out, talking to people, telling my story, hopefully helping someone, but at the same time, like.

This is powerful and this is what the world needs right now that it doesn’t have. Right? Yeah. It’s, it’s all superficial. It’s all superficial, which is a problem. Rick, I have a question for you, like, I’m, I’m just curious because I know that you, uh, you’ve already kind of talked about going through certain things and, and I’m curious about, like for you, what’s the motivation?

Like, what motivates you? And I think sometimes I wonder if that motivation is. Your motivation or somebody else’s motivation? Good question. Because I think, and I’m not just saying it’s you, I think every oh hundred percent. Yeah. Every, all of us at this table have had spent, like, I can, like, we’ve probably spent majority of our lives motivated or, or trying to, uh, when Paul said me, I think you’re talking about your mother and how, you know, you just wanted to be seen and, and get her approval.

Right. So I, I’m just curious, like back to you in regards to like, what’s your. [00:34:00] What has been your motivation and what is your motivation? Now he’s, he’s just throwing you a softball there, by the way. So, yeah, I was gonna say, that’s a lot to hard with. That’s a good one though. That’s a beauty It. It really is.

It really is. Yeah. And remember, and remember there’s a million people listen. Yeah, yeah. And you can’t say, Chris, your turn, because I’ll be like, I just ask question. Here’s a question, Paul. Yeah. Well, I know my answer. You do Yours. I think all of you guys are pros too. Given it’s time to think about this.

Usually the answer is, oh, that’s a great question. Next question. Next question. Well, you, you kind of, I think you actually helped me answer it in, in the way that you phrased it, which was, uh, my motivators were very societal, very, you know, pre 40 had, uh, I think in the driveway at one time, a. BMW and Audi, uh, a pickup truck, a classic car.

Had a boat cottage, had, uh, home had like all these motivators or what I thought was motivators, all this stuff, title, sitting on the boards, on the things [00:35:00] seen as, um, but. I and DJ. Extraordinary. You forgot that part. It’s a past life. Past life.

But not happy. Yes. And really not happy. And that’s scary. Yeah. Because you start to get to a point where it’s like, I’ve got all of the, the motivators or what I thought was a motivator that, that are gonna tick this box this year. Oh hey, I got the goals, I’m gonna reward myself. All this stuff that the societal things and.

All of a sudden it’s, it’s, it was actually before that breath work, and the rest is kind of taking inventory and going, shit. Okay, I, I’ve tied my entire self-worth. We talked about this a little bit last time we tied my, I tied my whole self-worth to stuff that could be taken away. Yeah. To things. Yeah. To ego-driven things.

And I think we’re almost at an epidemic level, that word [00:36:00] gets used too much, but, but we’re at, we’re at an epidemic level probably because of social media and sharing and you know, the optics and then we’re. If society, you know, had a volume button, it’s at 11 outta 10, uh, when it comes to showing off my stuff and like really cranking up all of it.

So my motivators were definitely misaligned. They were tied to, and it sounds like you’re living for everybody else, whereas now once you’ve realized your trauma. You’re gonna start living for you. And this is exactly where, where I’m at right now. So you’re right before, when you’re saying like, so a lot of growth to happen.

A hundred percent. Like I’m, I’m at the, the, the, uh, the crawling stage of, of understanding some of this stuff and, and taking it all apart. Yeah. Realizing it’s not selfish either. No, a hundred percent. That’s the biggest thing. It’s selfish if you don’t do that. Yeah. That’s, that’s been the hardest thing. And you’re not, I’ve been at this long, I’ve been at this long enough.

There’s so many, like I know, like we all think we want to be special, right? Yeah. Like that. My circumstance is special, but what you’re describing in, in many ways is. I think every, every [00:37:00] person to a certain degree, especially men, in regards to um, the men that are our age, because, you know, we’re driven by, you know, the uh, um, I guess parents that really had sometimes had a harder time showing.

Emotion and, and feelings. ’cause that’s, that was their generation. And I think it’s very common. And, and now we are actually at the point where we tried to do everything and then we realize, oh, no matter what we did, it wasn’t gonna be enough. And then we started filling it up with material items because like, look at us now, money, cars, whatever.

And then we realized then again, not, not enough. And so I think there’s a big transition that’s happening And, and and I to Eric’s, uh. You know, the, the Eric’s work, what you’re doing and, and just bring, bring people together is that conversation. And I think there’s a big movement of men that feel the same way, that are like questioning again, like, you know, what we were taught earlier isn’t who we are as really.

As, as, as individuals in that authenticity, authenticity piece. So we kind of have to unlearn and reconstruct [00:38:00] ourselves to figure out who we actually are. We get percent’s, are we in agreement on that or hundred percent. It’s scary, but it’s true. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta, you gotta, it’s, uh, part of it is a big part of the work is letting go, letting go of all the, the baggage, letting go of the relationships, definitions of success.

Letting go of some relationships that have defined us, but in the wrong way. It’s letting go of the shoulds, musts and have tos. Expectations that other people put on us. And, uh, and I appreciate your humility around, I’m at the crawling stage. I’ve been doing this a very long time. Uh, you’re not crawling, brother.

You’re, you’re definitely walking, you’re on the path and you’re on a really good one. I’m like you walking like a two year, but you’re walking, you, it’s just how I walk. I, I know. Some physical, be a nice moment. Just easy, easy. I always try to be nice to him. And you come in like the hammer. It’s good. It’s a walker.

Really. It’s a rocker. Well, it’s, you’re still walking. It’s true. I, I’m curious and then I wanna shift over to Chris and hear more about your [00:39:00] story, Chris, but, um, and not last question for you, but this question, what does,

Rick’s Daily Walk & Rebuilding with the Best Bricks

what does growth look like for you these days? In the last five minutes. It’s, uh, it’s, he didn’t go till now.

I think so. Okay. Some, some realities Cannot rewire my brain instantly. I’d love to. Yeah. Been able to do a lot of things in my life, like snap fingers and we’re gonna go because of, of, uh, uh, that’s, that’s just how I’ve operated since I was a kid. Mm. This one doesn’t work that way. That’s a bit of a wake up call.

Like, okay. You talked about knocking it. Knocking it down and it’s, the pieces are there. I’m starting. I’m, I’m here with a wheelbarrow right now and I’m sifting through the bricks to take some of the best bricks and get them in the wheelbarrow. I don’t know where I’m going with the wheelbarrow necessarily, like I’m hoping I could find a nice plot of land and start to build with the best bricks.

That have been knocked over and I know I’ve got some good bricks. Yeah, there’s some shitty bricks that I need [00:40:00] to leave behind. Yeah, there’s some broken ones. And those bricks are, and it would be great in the future to also find other people as they’re building that we’ve got this community with the best bricks.

We’re not gonna only take our best bricks. That would be, that’s impossible. But so that’s, this is what, how I’m, as I’m moving forward, I’m going, okay, let me make sure if I’m bringing a brick. With me for the Future Foundation that it is the best one that I can find. Yeah. In the pile. Yeah. But I’m at the stage, you know, it sounds like you, you know others at this, at this table have started constructing and have.

Built a couple levels of, with the best bricks. And so that’s also motivating is to say like, like use the examples of the people that have come ahead or a few stages ahead and, uh, and try to lean on that a little bit. Listen, uh, but that’s where I’m at right now. So listening and, and, and just building slowly.

Love that. It’s so encouraging. It’s so encouraging to hear that. Um, and I think for a lot of people listening are gonna be encouraged by that because you’re right, we, we want the easy button. And we were [00:41:00] joking there about walking, crawling it is when you go from, I like the walker analogy was the best.

That was the best. But, but when, when, when you go from, when you go from focusing on the external to the internal, it is like learning to walk all over again. Mm-hmm. And, and just like it takes years. To master walking. Some of us never do, but it takes years to master walking. It’s, it’s going to take time to master this new way of seeing life and experience and doing that.

And I love that you’re, you’re talk, I love how you put that and it’s gonna be an encouragement to some people say, how come I can’t just fix this? I had a breakthrough. How come everything’s not solved? Yeah. I would love to maybe pose this question maybe later, or maybe this is another podcast. It, it’s about how do you do the work?

Because, ’cause I think. We actually, we have probably four or five episodes that we’ve done on this. No, it’s a great powerful question. I’d love to hear and we’re about to shift to you. I’d love to hear how you’re doing the work. There’s one with Matthew, I think, right? There is one with Matthew. Really.

There’s one with Sherry, a couple with [00:42:00] Sherry, which which is our coach, and we’re going to be recording today as part of our package is one on when it starts to drift. Exactly. And we also had one with Jim Harrington, a couple of episodes with Jim Harrington, my mentor. Lots of great resources there, but that’s a powerful question to ask.

’cause a lot of folks, they hear the, the work they go, does that look like, yeah. What does that look like? And and the short answer is it looks different for everyone. Yeah. But there are some. Um, common elements that you’ll find in most stories. It often starts with deconstruction before it starts with hundred percent building the new, the new self.

Right. Uh, thank you Rick for sharing your story. Yeah. And I love that this, even these conversations are sparking new connections for you and, and, and new growth. Skip the Aya bud. You’re good. You’re good. You, you got it now? No, I, I think we should do like an ayahuasca machine. I’m in, we’re doing the We should do podcast with everybody on Iowa Ayahuasca.

Yeah. Like we’re all us are like, wanna see that? You wanna see that? Yeah. Buckets of puking. And Chris,

Chris’s Story: The Wall & Starting Therapy at 37

we’re gonna zero [00:43:00] in on you, uh, for this next segment. Um, I really appreciated getting to know you. You’re a real quality guy. Um, and you’ve talked about, I mean, and you’re, like I said at the beginning, show a real champion for men’s mental health.

You’ve talked openly about your journey, how therapy’s been so helpful in your growth. Talk to us a little bit about. At the wall, uh, that was a big awakening for you and what growth looks like for you now on Monday morning. Okay, so back to I guess the, the wall, I think, I think everybody kind of goes through at some point, like I, you call it that midlife crisis, right?

Mm-hmm. Uh, for me that was, it was, it was the, the loss of a relationship, uh, that really kind of, it was probably in my late thirties where it was basically, um, everything didn’t feel. I was acting out selfishly, but not in a selfish, in a good way. Uh, but in a probably what I would consider, uh, you know, a harmful way.

Mm. And and so it was really like asshole, selfish. That’s right. But like, [00:44:00] uh, guaranteed. Yeah. Yes. And I was that, and the problem is I thought I was a nice guy. Even though I was doing things that was probably not, uh, when I look back now, I’m like, yeah, definitely asshole. Like, um, but, and I was like, that’s, and that wasn’t the person I wanted to be or who I was.

Right. And, and so for me it was like that 37 and, you know, I, I always, it was that had that, you know, therapy, you know. Therapy or was, you know, that stigma was, oh, therapy is only for those people that have big problems. Right. And, and that was just foolish thinking on my part. I basically

Chris on Values, Growth & Living in the Present

at 37, you know, started doing therapy on a regular basis and I continue to do therapy.

Um, because it’s one of those things where it’s like we, we all go to the gym. We know the gym is good. Yeah. But. There’s no stigma behind going to the gym, but going to therapy is just basically the gym for the mind. I was, so that’s exactly, I was, was about to jump in. Say our coach, Sherry Kane, who happens to be the mindset coach for the Philadelphia Eagles, by the way, she works with professional ball players.

Uh, really [00:45:00] smart lady. Uh, she’s been part of our story, my story since 2016. Uh, and I see her once a month, um, still to this day. And she calls it that, that this is mine gym. This is where you go do the reps for your inner life. Yeah. Uh, because your inner life determines the quality of. Of your outer life.

Right. Your, uh, so I love, I love that you use the same language and at 37 the work continues, right? Mm-hmm. Like, it doesn’t, like, I I, as, as I get older, does it become easier? Not necessarily. It just, it’s different. Mm-hmm. And when I, when I consider the work, the things that I do is I, I do things that I, I spend a lot of time figuring out what I want to do with my life and, and my values and what.

What my alignment is. And, and I think for me, um, the key is being aligned with my values. Mm. Because it makes everything else super easy. Like Yeah. Decisions are easier. Um, you know, I used to drink because it was a social thing. Yeah. And I never liked the taste of alcohol. So I got to the point where like, [00:46:00] I just stopped and I, you know, it wasn’t, I didn’t, my, you know, I didn’t have a, a drinking problem.

I just didn’t, I just decided that’s not me. I didn’t do it. I did it because I was mostly doing it for social reasons, so I quit. Um, and those are, and. And it’s funny because when you do, people always like, think that they, they jump to conclusions, right? Yeah. Oh, you had problems. And I’m like, no, no. Well, we’re talking about, we’re talking about, so like society’s expectations.

Yes. Right, right. Once again, uh, living, uh, again, we call it the shoulds, the musts and the have tos, the shoulds. We feel these, this pressure to show up a certain way. And I think we spend most of our younger years, like our, probably our thirties into mid thirties, almost into our. Forties trying to live up to that.

That’s what we heard in your story. It’s what we heard in your story, certainly our story as well, and yours. And you do all the things. I’ve checked all the boxes and I’m still miserable. Like this. Is this it? Uh, and then we start realizing, wait a second, I get to define what my life looks like. And when, when, when we choose a path that’s not the [00:47:00] normal path or the path that society would say, well, this is what’s acceptable.

You do get some pushback. And I think that’s why a lot of folks don’t be, and they don’t live an authentic life, is because they wanna belong. Mm-hmm. Right. When you, when that, when you have that feeling, when it’s like. I do get to live the life I want. Mm. That’s where the power starts. A hundred percent percent.

That’s where it’s like, oh my God, it can be about me. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It’s that awareness of, of that time is precious, right? Mm. Like we’re all dying. The one of my favorite expressions is, uh, memento Moray. Mm-hmm. Which basically, if you’re not familiar, it’s basically when I believe when a Roman, uh, general would.

Uh, complete a battle and win. Uh, there was always somebody behind him yelling, remember death ’cause that’s what it means in Latin. Me. Uh, memento moray as they were parading through the streets, streets of Rome. Exactly. Celebrating the general, the, the guy holding the, I think holding the, the, what do you call it?

The, the, the laurels or the, the, the little crown over his head was whispering in his ear. Yeah. And may die someday. So, and I think it’s so important, like [00:48:00] now aside of all the discussions that we’ve had today, um, is just remembering that we, you know, I’m not super spiritual. Like I, I, my you, I be, I believe, I don’t know what’s gonna happen when we die.

Well, you, you’re your ai, so you don’t even have a soul. That’s right. Ouch. He’s not even here. This is ai. Yeah, this program, but it’s really that realization. I think it’s really important for us to, because people forget that ev like, we’re dying right now, right? Mm-hmm. Like, and so my thought about this is like, you gotta take a va, like you gotta like.

Why be miserable? Mm-hmm. So I actually gear myself to self-improvement. So getting to know myself. ’cause you’re, once you know yourself, you become, you can become your best self. Mm-hmm. Right? And so I, that’s my mission. Like, and it’s self. So how do you do that? How do you do that? Well, I think therapy is one of the, yeah, the key, the ’cause that you bring out all the issues, all the discussions, and you, and you’re in a safe space where you can talk about anything.

Right. Yeah. Yeah. And, and so that’s, uh, I think that’s important. [00:49:00] And then I always tell, and I’m also a professor, uh, where I tell my students, take a day off. Go to a coffee shop. Don’t bring in any technology and just think about your life. Think like, just basically think, love that, love that. And, and the values.

And think about what you want. Right. And what success is on your own definition. Uh, students that have a hard time because they’re still living their parents’ definition of success, right. So, so I try to get them out of that. You gotta start thinking about what your definition, definition success is. Yeah.

And then, then once you know that you then can nail it, like, ’cause then you just move towards it like I used to be. Yeah. I don’t think you ever know your definition, definition of success until you really get to know yourself. A hundred percent. Yeah. And until then, it changes all the time. Like I talked about my, it used to be money and being the best and all this.

Yeah. Now I couldn’t give a shit about that stuff that, that’s right. I. Peace and happy. Happy. And it changes clear. It changes, we call it in the, in the in living richly language or in the foundry nation. We’ll, we’ll [00:50:00] talk about, it’s getting clear on who you are and what you stand for, right? Yeah. That’s like, and that’s powerful, right?

And then building a life that’s authenticity. Yes. Once I know that, and that’s a, to your point, like awareness. Increasing all the time. Yeah. So my vision of who I want to be and how I wanna show up will likely be my goal is that 12 months from now, I’ve got even greater clarity on that and greater alignment.

I don’t think you ever reach a point where it’s crystal clear, but you’re, it’s, it’s, it’s a vision that pulls you in a certain direction, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, um, so, and I love, again, you’re, you’ve always struck me as someone who is very self-aware and is working on building that. That vision of, of who you are.

Yeah. I, I think that’s what most people’s life work should be, right? Because creating your best version of yourself is the best version for your family, for your community Yeah. And such. And we, we sometimes we forget that, right? Yeah. Um, love that. Um. I think the other thing that, for me when a major thing is, uh, was having children, right?

Mm. Like to me, like, [00:51:00] you know, it’s like game, it’s game changing. It is, it’s, it’s game changing. It makes you a better person, uh, gives you, if you, if you struggled with purpose, um, you know, that gives you a definite. Purpose, right? Mm-hmm. Um, now, so, so there’s a lot of things there, like, yeah. But for me, uh, realization of that life is moving along.

Um, I try to gear things to self-improvement, but also just fun. Yeah. Like why not just have fun? We’re only here once maybe, um, to make, make the most of, make what you have. Yeah. Have fun. Would you agree, Chris? The. Kids can become maybe one of the best scoreboards that we have. Mm. Right. They’re the best teachers for sure.

They maybe the best teacher for, for me it’s this joys, these simple joys that now I can see vicariously through my kids. I’m like, oh, I can keep tally with that. They keep, that becomes my, they keep you young. Like, like I, I see. I don’t know about that. I don’t keep them young jet hair, you know? Yeah. They keep you humble.

Well, that’s, yeah. Yeah. That’s, I’m so, like, my daughter constantly calls me cringe [00:52:00] and she, and she con constantly says like. You know, insults me in many ways and I’m like, that’s great, but I like it. It’s the thing that teaches me is that teaches me first patient and teaches me that I will love this person no matter what.

Yeah. Right? Yeah, yeah. And, and allow that person to be whoever they want to be now, but, but back to kids. Yeah. Like they, not only do they keep you young, but they challenge you. Right. So I love that. I love that. Thank you. Thank you so much. Listen, um,

Lightning Round: How Do You Know You’re Winning?

next few questions are gonna be lightning rounds. So I’m gonna, I’m gonna give ’em to you lightning fast and I just want like, get right to it.

Uh, ’cause we’re, we, we’re gonna need to land the plane. This is like, I feel we could go on all day. This is, um, and we’re definitely have to have you guys back. But the first lightning round question, I’m gonna start with you Rick, um, is how do you know when you’re winning now? Well, I just talked about those small joys, and for me that’s, that’s the biggest indicator.

So it’s now slowing down enough to be making brownies in the kitchen with my daughter [00:53:00] or gingerbread house with the both kids, or there’s a lot of food related stuff. Yeah. Uh, Chuck, could you tell, can you tell the holidays weren’t that far behind us? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And yeah. Uh, or singing in the car, let’s say with both kids.

You know, we do, uh, car. Carpool karaoke, the, the three of us. And, and so those, those, uh, small joys for me, that’s, that’s really how I know that I’m, I’m winning. I love that now. ’cause I couldn’t see those before. Yeah. Which is, there’s a sadness in that. I, I was always into the next thing or the ne uh, move forward.

And if we’re making brownies and we’re making ’em perfect because somebody might. Not like this brownie if we, so cutting all that shit out, which is a, which is a symptom of bigger things. Another episode, yeah. In lightning mode. It, it’s really slowing down to recognize those small joys gives me the, the, the score.

Love it. Love it. What about you Chris? How do you know you’re, when you’re winning now? Once again, it just, it’s that alignment with values and, and I, and I get like, I do what I want, when I [00:54:00] want and I show up. I’m winning when my kids are, like, when I, when my family, like my wife and my children feel loved, and I, and they’re safe and secure, that’s winning to me, that’s success.

Love that. Like I am, you know, and I’m good. Like I get to do what I want. I, I align myself. Like there’s nothing in my like, knock on wood. Um. I’m just very fortunate to be in a place where all my past experiences and the work I’ve done has led me to be being okay with whatever happens, and I’m a hundred percent okay with what’s gonna happen in the future.

I’m okay with what’s happening now. So living in the present, I guess would probably be how I know. Yeah. Like when I’m, when I’m not thinking about the past and when I’m not too far in the future. It’s when I’m focused on the here and now. Yeah. Um, I think that’s when I can, when I feel the most. I love that.

Being fully in the moment. Fully in the moment. Yeah, that’s right. Like right now. Yeah. It’s awesome. Love it Paul. For me, it’s inner [00:55:00] peace, it’s clarity, it’s feeling comfortable in my skin, and it’s for realizing that I’m allowed to be. I, I’m allowed to care for myself and not feel selfish. Yeah. Is my views my best thing?

That’s the good one. Yeah. Just inner peace, clarity and, and just feeling good in my skin that I don’t, I’m allowed to think about myself and take care about myself. What a great place to land the episode.

Closing Thoughts & Community Resources

Gentlemen, this has been such a powerful conversation. Uh, again, I wish we had more time. We’re just gonna have to have you back and continue the conversation maybe in a few months time.

Let a, a little bit more growth. Continue to happen for all of us so we can check in at that time. Uh, but if you’re listening to this and you’re thinking, you know, maybe I’m not at rock bottom, but I’m not okay either, um, then this is exactly the kind of conversation that you need to be a part of, and we invite you to continue to be part of that conversation.

My word to you is you’re not broken. Uh, you’re not weird, you’re not odd, you’re just on a path. And if there’s any sense of discontent. That you’re sensing or discomfort [00:56:00] with your life, lean into that. Uh, the journey sometimes can be a bit jarring, but it’s when we pay attention to that and start taking steps to carve out our own reality, that’s when we start to really, really live.

Yeah. This is, this is what. The Living Richly Nation is all about, and we encourage you to check out Living richly.me. It’s a great, uh, place to find all kinds of, of resources. And I just wanna circle back real quickly on the notion of community. We talked about it for finding for men who are, who are just hungry to.

Find a place where they can connect with other men. Mm. Uh, Eric created this incredible group of a gathering of men called the Foundry, and you can check that out as well. We’re gonna have the website on the, on the video and in the show notes so that you can find all of that stuff. We wanna thank Rhapsody, our sponsor.

Yep. Uh, if you’re a business owner, uh, whether you’re a male or a female business owner and you’re saying, I’m feeling the weight, uh, of what I’m carrying with my [00:57:00] business, uh, there’s all kinds of resources and tools. That we have as well as support people at rhapsody uh, strategies.com. So make sure to check that out as well.

If you like this episode, then make sure to like it and share it out and subscribe to the channel so you don’t miss future ones. And, uh, do, do, uh, some other guy a favor and send it to him. Someone you know, at least a couple guys in your network that could benefit from this show. Make sure to send it their way.

Listen, as we close, you don’t have to blow up your life. To live your best life. You just have to stop pretending. Thanks for tuning in and we’ll hope we hope to see you next time. Until then, get out there and live your best life.