The Real Reason You Keep Sabotaging Your Own Success

The Real Reason You Keep Sabotaging Your Own Success

Ep119 – The Fear of Success

Kate: [00:00:00] I think success is just about, it’s more about how I feel. Yeah. Than maybe what I have or what

Wendy: it looks to the outside world. Yeah. Have all of the checkbox items. How dare I want more. How dare I want to expand my career and grow. And so I really started to shrink myself in places and almost dim my light.

Eric: Do you feel like you’re living well? And by that I don’t just mean stuff. Experiences, what are you doing that fills your cup? Do you have enough of that going on out? Side of business. I think there’s a lot of

Rob: people that have an unhealthy relationship with success. Because they haven’t defined it. They don’t truly understand what it means.

Hi, and welcome to the Living Richly podcast. We’re so glad that you’ve joined us here today. I know that oftentimes people talk about the fear of failure. But what if, what’s holding you back isn’t failure, but the fear of success. Great question. It’s gonna be a really interesting [00:01:00] conversation that we’re gonna have today.

It was fueled by one of our listeners, Julia. Yeah. Julia, yeah. Who had shared a that as a part in the Living Richly Facebook group, the nation. And she mentioned something about having a topic around this and we were like, ah, none of us ever

Eric: have had to worry about. We’ve never struggled with it, but we’ve done tons of homework and research and read books about other people’s stories to be able to show up today and do something meaningful.

Rob: So let’s blow that myth up. And maybe why don’t we start by just maybe sharing some personal experiences. Oh, seriously. That’s, we’re gonna start for the first time ever on the podcast. We’re

Eric: gonna get vulnerable.

Rob: We’re gonna get vulnerable. And but let’s talk about a little bit about what is maybe one experience you’ve had where success has.

Kind of started to creep up and you’re sensing it and something happens to pull you back from that. Maybe Kate, you could start.

Kate: Yeah, I’ve more than once, i’ve had multiple small businesses in my life. I love running my own business. But what I realized looking back is like the [00:02:00] amount of times I’m business is starting to get really successful and then I bail before I fail.

It is like this epic, like it’s going. I’m like, oh, this looks really, I wanna do this. And then I go over here not thinking that I am like. Not consciously aware that I’m actually bailing.

All: But

Kate: in my head, it’s somehow that I justify it over here. And in hindsight, the commitment to stick with, like from a business perspective, to sit through the highs and lows is actually one of the hardest things, and success comes with those highs and lows.

So I think for me it’s like the number of times just as things are getting good. I bail ’cause I’m so scared of what if I succeed?

Eric: What if, what a great soundbite. A before I fail, right? Yeah.

Wendy: A great new hashtag. We’re

Rob: gonna

Wendy: be urging it. No,

Rob: wait. The opposite, right? Sorry. Bail before you fail.

I’m bailing now. Yeah. Bail. Bail.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. For me, I, it’s less of a moment in time and more like a pattern. [00:03:00] And I think. We really need to talk about these things together because I think fear of failure, fear of success, are just two sides of the same coin. Yeah. There’ll be many moments where I am afraid to take a step because what if this doesn’t work?

We were just talking that it’s been just over a year since we launched the 15 day, 15 day life vision. The life mindful masculinity. Yes. When we started those episodes on the show, and that was taking a risk at the time. And we launched the 15 day life vision challenge and put that out into the world.

And since then in the business, there’s been so many things created and changed and morphed in the rest of it. I think the pattern for me is I’m less afraid of failure now. I’m still afraid of it, but I’m less afraid of it. When I guess the biggest thing I’ve had to overcome and still work on sometimes is more this notion of do I believe I deserve it?

Kate: Yeah, totally do. I believe

Eric: I actually deserve success, so I’m not sure if that’s fear or if it’s more still a worthiness piece that I’m working on. I’m way further. Along down that road, [00:04:00] like better than I was just two, three years ago. But it’s still, is still, it’s still a fact.

Yeah, it’s a journey for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob: What about for you?

Wendy: I think mine is more of a, just a personal experience. And I would say it ties back to my first marriage where I really felt myself starting to shrink and wanting to grow and expand in different places. But in my mind, a lot of it was like, but.

You have all of the checkbox items. Kate, you and I have talked about this Yeah. A lot on real women, real talk. I have all of the checkbox items. How dare I want more, right? How dare I wanna expand my career and grow. And so I really started to shrink myself in places and almost dim my light.

And it because of that, I started sabotaging my own happiness because I was afraid of just that journey. But that turned out to be great because yes, I had to walk through all of that stuff as all of us have. But I came out on the other side stronger.

Rob: Amazing. I think it’s, in some cases we don’t understand really what success is or what it means.

[00:05:00] We have, most of us have not even defined it for ourselves. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. So just like with much of life when we are not clear on something there is a fear of what it looks like. I, when Julia first posted this in the Facebook group the thought that came to mind right away was the the person who wins the lottery.

And how the stats will tell us that most people who win a significant amount of money end up worse off than they were before because they don’t understand how to. They don’t understand money. Yeah. Money becomes almost guide leads them versus them control it. It just being a tool, they have an unhealthy relationship with money.

That’s what I was trying to say. And and there’s some reality to that. Is that it? And success is that I think there’s a lot of people that have an unhealthy relationship with success. Because they haven’t defined it. They don’t truly understand what it means. Let’s what.

When we think of success and we think of failure, and I agree with you, Eric, that they are two [00:06:00] sides of the same coin. But they demand different things of us. Yeah. So when we think of success, what are what does success demand of us that maybe failure doesn’t?

Eric: Success says step into the damn life.

Yeah. Yeah, 100%. Whereas depending on how epic the failure is if it’s a very public failure, that. Can’t into the light too. I would step into the light as well. But often in, in much of what we do, the failures that we experience or the letdowns or disappointments are private, right? They may not be as public as when we put ourselves out there.

Success does expose you. It it puts you in a space that requires more emotional capacity, more leadership capacity. Can you be counted on now to keep showing up now that this thing is working and, i’ve come to recognize that there was all kinds of times throughout my life where I self-sabotaged.

It’s almost like I was allergic to peace. I was allergic to things going well, and I got really good at burning the whole fucking house down. When I started to feel unconsciously or consciously feel if this actually works, what’s that gonna require [00:07:00] of me? Thankfully I’ve come a long way on that front too, but it’s still this, yeah.

This notion of, again. If I get there, if I get what I want, am I gonna be able to hold in that position? Yeah. Do I have what it takes to stay the course once I get there?

Kate: Yeah. The vi like it’s, the success is visible. It’s like people can see it and I feel like we fail more in private, like exactly what you just.

Said, it’s like the failure can be hidden behind doors, but let’s say you’re doing something like the Living Richly Podcast is doing and it’s really successful, and all of a sudden you’re like, oh my God, it’s successful. Like we have to maintain this and what does that mean? And and then it becomes something maybe bigger than it needs to be.

Whereas if we just slowly stop the podcast, which we’re not doing, so it’s the panic. But if that was the case, you can just slowly taper off and into quietness. Yeah. And that can happen privately.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah.

Kate: I think it also

Wendy: demands the. Ability for us to let go. So let go of other people’s opinions, let go of the habits that we have.

So Eric, like you were just [00:08:00] mentioning, like one of your tendencies was, to back off or I think that’s what you said. So that, that, that habit can become very ingrained at us. So learning to let go and just things that don’t serve us any longer, that in order to. Be successful in whatever it is or want to launch to that next level.

You’ve got to let go of the things that aren’t serving you to then be able to move forward towards the things that are

Rob: Yeah. We see it. We, I think we see it in with business owners all the time.

Why do a lot of people not ever want. To step into entrepreneurship of, and ownership. There’s a number of reasons.

One of them is because if I’m successful as a business owner, or if I all of a sudden have this company where I’ve got employees and everything, now I’m responsible for them. I’ve gotta take owner. I can’t blame others for failure. I I can’t blame this. Wow. Totally. It’s because of this or it’s because of that?

No. Now it’s all on you. Yeah. And there’s a responsibility when. Suc with success comes responsibility in my minds, most of us. That I now need to either continue to show up or I need to now deliver because [00:09:00] others are counting on it. Even this podcast, as we got successful and as we started to see a lot of followers, there is a sense of, hey, we need to make sure that we show up with some energy.

We can’t just say, ah, we don’t feel like doing it this month. We’ll just not put out a po an episode for a few months. You have that, the responsibility comes in and for a lot of people, that’s the fear is, if I’m successful, what is that going to require of me at that point?

Eric: Absolutely. It’s the the famous line from Peter Parker in Spider-Man.

With great power comes great responsibility. Yeah. And you mentioned a book to me a long time ago about the top 1% and people learning and I might get the concept wrong, but it was something about once you figure out what it actually takes to be, like, everyone wants to be in the top, right?

Yeah. And, but once you do the math on what’s actually required to be there and stay there, how many people go, no, I’m good. Being in the top 20 or in the top 10 because all of a sudden they go, yeah, success looks great, but I haven’t. Counted the cost. I haven’t weighed, what is this going to require of me long term?

So [00:10:00] I think you, you mentioned fog earlier, where there’s fog, there’s gonna be fear, where there’s clarity that’s usually followed by confidence.

Rob: Yes. We also think that success will change us. And so there’s this notion of what’s it going to, who do I have to become or what is it gonna require of me?

How do I show up differently if success happens? What do you, how do you respond to that?

Kate: Yeah, I think that’s a big part of it. For me, it’d be like. I think and it’s, I want to chat through too, like a lot of this is super subconscious. Like I don’t think we’re consciously thinking of it.

Rob: No. You know what I mean? So it is so

Kate: you really do need to put when this question came out, I’m like, I don’t know. Lemme call. What is it? What is it really? And I think for me, truthfully it’s, will I be the same person? Will I be. Will I stay grounded? Will I, is this gonna affect me? Am I gonna show up differently with my kids?

And am I gonna show up differently at work? Am I gonna show up differently as a boss? Am I like, I think for me, it’s like in my head somehow there’s like this fear that I’m gonna lose who I [00:11:00] am because this version, to me feels different. And I, I don’t know why, and I don’t really like consciously have an answer of what that is, but I know, I worry that I won’t.

Feel as grounded. As I do today And not rational.

Rob: No, and I love that you said that so much of, because you’re right, I had that same reaction. Yeah. At first it was like fear, success, like I, because and I I don’t know what I think of that. It is subconscious. Yeah, it is. For in many cases, and I think this is one of the biggest.

Things because when we look at successful people and when we, again, this is about defining success. When I use that phrase now i’m thinking of like entertainers or the wealthy, the, some of the billionaires that are, that are in media. Yeah. You look at them and you think most of the time they show up as jerks.

They show up as entitled and all and that I don’t wanna become that. Yeah. Yeah. And so we think that’s what’s gonna happen if we see success. Yeah. There’s a big

Wendy: ego piece tied to it. Ego percent piece.

Eric: I think in po let’s just [00:12:00] look at the lens through the lens of imposter syndrome.

Most of us have run into that from time to time, not Wendy, but the rest of us have. She’s like shaking her head like that. Yeah, I know. She saw that.

All (2): I’m sorry. Imposter syndrome. Imposter. What

Eric: is that? What is that? I don’t know. I think part of it is this notion of if I actually I already feel.

A lot of that in my day to day where I’m like, I’d if people only knew the real me. And all of a sudden, if I succeed, then there’s gonna be even more pressure on me to maybe be someone that I’m not. And I tied back to, again, for me, it was this part about do I deserve it, right?

There’s this great formula that that, that success is desire. Plus knowledge plus belief, right? So you have to want it, you have to figure out how to do it. So that’s the knowledge piece. And then you have to believe, but belief is twofold. One, you have to believe you can, even with the self-doubt and all that, it’s not this toxic positive thing.

It’s more like just believe ultimately that I can get there and figure it out. But belief is twofold. The other side of that is believe I deserve it.

All (2): Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. Because [00:13:00] if you’ve got desire plus knowledge, but you don’t have the belief piece, you don’t get success. All you end up with is frustration.

Yeah. Yeah. Deep frustration. And again, for me, I think that was the element that was missing for so long, is this belief. That I actually deserve to be to be happy and to feel good and all the things that for me are a part of being successful.

Wendy: And that’s mine ties into that as well, just ’cause my thought around Yeah.

The belief of deserving it because. For me, there’s always been that fear of being too much for people. And not from an ego. And like I talked to Sherry about this, although you and I have conversations around this because I still struggle with, I never wanna come across like I’m overly humble, where I never want to come across too much as being too bold, too confident.

Too. Just too much. Yeah. But then I’m trying to learn that. But I deserve this and I’ve worked for this and I’m entitled to this, but not in an entitlement type of way. And I used to hear comments, [00:14:00] going back a decade when I left my HR career, moving into the fitness space and, who does she think she is?

Or oh, even now oh, she’s so lucky. And I’ve said it before. Fuck luck. You, fuck luck. You heard it here. Fuck luck. Not

All (2): fucking duck. But yeah, fuck luck.

Wendy: It is, there is a fear about being too much for people and the perception on how are people gonna perceive me? Yeah.

Rob: And it’s interesting.

So good. And of course we I think of Matthew’s episode, I think it was the first time he was on the show, and it was a, I know for you a boom, mind blowing was that notion of. To being too much and having to wrestle with too much and not enough, too much and not enough, yeah. That’s the same thing.

And it’s always interesting ’cause I chuckle, you’re right, we’ve had many conversations and you’ve struggled with that. You, the two of you are so similar in your personalities in many ways. I chuckle about that. I’ve got a business partner and a wife, one and the same. And there is that, that, that challenge there of how we show up.

I really believe that at our core. Who we are when we’re successful, we just, it has, it [00:15:00] gives more permission for it to show up. I don’t think we change, I don’t think the average person doesn’t. If you’re. Jerk. If you’re, I was gonna say, if you’re a dick, if you’re a jerk, it just accentuates what’s already there.

It just gives you more openness to do it. Yeah. Exactly. If you’re a humble person or a kind person, and I look at some of the people who have gained success. Athletes, yeah. Actors, business people, and all they’re doing is just showing up more truly. I don’t know if they’re showing truly who they are or they’re still playing whatever persona.

But they are that who you are internally just comes out more with success.

Eric: Yeah. It’s again, to borrow again from the world of superheroes. It

Kate: wouldn’t be a podcast if I didn’t go there, but think

Eric: of the super serum right to, to turn ordinary people into super soldier. Yes. So yes, for for Steve Rogers, captain America.

He’s a good guy. He’s a really good guy, so he gets pumped full of the serum and he just becomes an even better guy, right? Same serum goes into other characters [00:16:00] and it just accentuated what was already there. Their selfishness, their desire to control, and I think again, we talk about success, the fear of success.

I come back to, most people don’t know what that means for themselves. They have adopted. Society’s version of what that means. Yeah. So that’s the big McMansion. It’s the three cars in the driveway. It’s the vacation home. Yeah. Someplace warm and all those things are great, but that ultimately, I think a lot of folks that attain those things, they’re following that formula that if I check these boxes somehow I’ll be good.

I’ll have achieved. And they get their own to go, is this it? Is there more? Talking to a millionaire multimillionaire client of mine just the other day. And it’s interesting how our conversations have shifted away from business every time we have our one-to-ones, and he’s more at that stage of life going.

What do I want to do with my time and energy? I’ve got all the things, but I’m feeling this stirring or this un unease, this disease unease within me that something’s missing. And I said let’s talk about what success means for you. So I think the [00:17:00] formula is wrong. Yeah. And I think the definition is often inherited as opposed to created.

Okay. So I’m gonna go off script here okay. I know.

Rob: And I’m gonna ask you guys, I don’t know, get ready, brace yourself. He’s going

Eric: off script.

Rob: I’m gonna ask you to think about and give me your definition of what success is. What is success for you? And not because we want those that are listening to adopt our definition of success, but it might give them a sense of, okay, how do they come up with and define their definition of success?

I’m gonna talk for a second or two just to give you a chance. Now I know you’re ready to I’m stalling, so I’ll go So can think you guys are ready to go. Im good. But let’s do that because I do think it’s important if. If what we’re talking about is the fear of success, how do you overcome the fear of success?

First of all, define what success is. Yeah. Yeah. So we’ve said that enough times, so let’s define it. Alright, you’re ready to go? Yeah, I’m ready.

Kate: I’m ready. Go. You’re ready. Ready to go. Go. So go Kate. I really thought about this. That’s why, because I really thought about when we were doing the episode ’cause so when I hear success, I automatically think business and what’s really.

Interesting is success is a it. It shows up in all [00:18:00] facets of your life. There’s success as a parent, success as a daughter, like success isn’t always just business. And for me, that’s where I associated it. And success over time, that definition. Has changed. So success used to be the house, the good job, the kids, everything’s working well.

It’s like what, on the outside, what success looks like? It’s the highlight reel. It’s the highlight reel. And now today, success for me isn’t about the big paycheck and it’s not about all that’s. Stuff on the exterior. It’s success for me is Kate, are you, are, what you’re doing isn’t aligned with your values?

How do you feel? Are you content? Are you happy? Is your cup full? Like now it’s time. How

Eric: happy is Eric?

Kate: How happy is Eric? That comes to mind every single day. Is Eric happy today? It does for me as well. Yeah. But

Rob: if it doesn’t, I’m just saying

Wendy: that’s a whole other podcast.

Kate: But yeah,

Rob: it’s a question we ask every morning, we wake up, right?

How happy is Eric right now?

Eric: Thanks. What can I do so much? Steve? We [00:19:00] love you. Thank you.

Kate: Yeah. But I will say it’s value tied for me now. Like I think success is just about, it’s more about how I feel, yeah. Than maybe what I have or what it looks to the outside

Wendy: world. Yeah. And when you said core values, that’s exactly what I was thinking is how does it align to my core values and at my stage in.

In life right now. It’s, I love being a busy, productive person, but I love adding value, but that isn’t necessarily for business. Seeing my parents aging right now am I showing up as, the best I can to be? Helping them out with things, spending that time with them.

Am I carving out time, important things for us? Am I taking care of myself? Am I, getting enough sleep? All of those little things where I can go to bed at night and not necessarily think, here’s the 86 things I did wrong. Yeah. But. Here’s how I not that I ever,

Rob: Who is this person talking right now?

I,

Eric: it’s like she’s talking about something

Wendy: completely out. Hello versus Wendy. But no, I think it, it absolutely ties back to core [00:20:00] values. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric: For me it’s a. It, I framed it within the living richly model. For me, success means living well. Yeah. Loving well being. Serving well.

And that is a framework that I even shared with this client that I was just referring to, to say, what if you started to ask yourself some questions around those lines in your life, do you feel like you’re living well? And by that I don’t just mean stuff. Experiences, what are you doing that fills your cup?

Do you have enough of that going on? Outside of business. ’cause let’s face it for a lot of us, I think success is tied to the business front more than it is to the personal front. And part of why we launched the foundry right, is to speak to men who have spent their entire life pretty much just investing in business and maybe other parts of their lives have been neglected.

And now they’re feeling it and they’re sensing this need to shift. Someone wants to find it this way. And I borrowed that definition, made it part of my own, but it’s also about doing more of the things that I love with the people that matter most to me.

Kate: Like us. Said. Like us, exactly right.

Yes. Is part of that.

Eric: But I think getting clear is so important on [00:21:00] that.

Rob: And what’s so freeing about? In all these cases, these definitions and shifting away from it being about chasing money, right? Yeah. Whether you have 10 million in your bank account or you are in debt, you can live well.

Eric: You can now.

I will say you can. Now I will say, listen, a part of my, for me, part of success is financial independence is being in a place financially. ’cause let’s face it, if doing more of the things I love with the people that matter most is part of my definition of success, guess what makes that possible?

Yes. Vision is spelled M-O-N-E-Y, right? Without. Money without resources, you will be limited. Can you be happy without it? A hundred percent, yeah. However, it life’s harder. So for me, success, certainly there’s an aspect of that, but it’s not about chasing the money. It’s about empowering the purpose or empowering the

Rob: vision and.

I was going there, already jumped in. I was just got

Eric: really passionate about I’m gonna, I’m gonna wait more on

Rob: this second. No because you’re absolutely right. I’m not [00:22:00] suggesting that I think that the the debt mindset or the poverty mindset we come out of a world where that was.

The case, right? Where it was like you shouldn’t, the oh, the love of money, is the how, whatever it is, root of all evil. Wow. We’ve been outta that world too long. Apparently you have. You didn’t jump in there. Nope. I was letting you hang yourself. ‘Cause I think you’re absolutely right.

There’s nothing wrong with desiring to be financially free. When we chase it thinking that’s what’s going to give us the satisfaction or the sense of fulfillment. You’re gonna be really disappointed when you have that 10 million in your bank account.

Eric: Yeah. Www, whether it’s money or you’re chasing it in relationships.

Yeah. Or you’re chasing it in the things that you do. Listen, I one of the places we hide the most is in service. Because we feel useful. But we are, and we’re chasing some sense of fulfillment. So that’s gotta come from within. That’s a whole other subject matter. [00:23:00] But here’s an interesting thing.

I want to introduce the there’s an old story in an old Jewish book, the Good Book of a story by of a young man by the name of Joseph. Make the story short, he was favored by his father. He had 11 other brothers that were really jealous of him. But there’s and the reason they were jealous of him is because on one occasion, the, their father Jacob gave.

Joseph, this coat of many colors. There’s, it’s great Broadway, there’s a Broadway production, right? That’s based on this story, right? So it’s a really old story. But the coat was very luxurious for back then and made his brothers jealous. But the thing that they talk about is the coat was too big for him.

The cloak was too big for him. And it was interesting. There’s a parallel there that oftentimes Joseph actually would have to grow up and develop and mature in, in order to actually OO own wearing that cloak. Does that make sense? Like he would have to become bigger, he’d have to grow, he’d have to evolve to where it proudly.

And in the same way, I think fear of success is. [00:24:00] We sense a calling or to do something that’s beyond our current level and we feel like it’s too big, and am I gonna be able to wear that cloak? Am I gonna be able to carry that persona and be that person who maintains?

Rob: So when you get there, when you have that successes on the horizon, the coat feels a little too big, you’re a little scared, you’re not sure around success, what’s your go-to move?

All: Oh, I like, how do you bail before you fail? How you fail before you fail? I literally bail before I I Homer Simpson back through the head. Like I, I do. I like totally, I shrink. You what? I Homer Simpson back through head. I love that.

Rob: I love using that as a verb. Oh my God. I Homer Simpson. Simpson.

All: The in,

Rob: that’s the fucking

Eric: funniest thing I’ve ever heard. One of my favorite memes of all

All: time.

Rob: I gotta do a homer. Oh yeah. Yeah.

Kate: That’s what I do. Homework. That’s what he does. It goes back and it’s one of my favorite memes. Anyway, that’s what I do.

Rob: I love

Kate: that. Now you all have a visual.

All: I have a visual.

You’re never, I want a video. One day.[00:25:00]

I’m Homer Simpson.

Rob: It’s happening. Next time Wendy’s coaching a class, somebody’s gonna want to, slow down the treadmill. Don’t you dare Homer Simpson. Send into the bush.

Kate: It’s true though. So that’s my go-to now. You have a visual to associate, but I’ll love, I’ll shrink, so I’ll do the thing like, this isn’t really working.

And because I don’t wanna deal with disappointment, so it’s almost like I am, I’m getting ready for something that hasn’t happened. So it’s like you’re talking

Eric: yourself.

Kate: I’m already out of

Eric: greatness. Yeah, because

Kate: I, it’s almost like I don’t wanna feel the disappointment if it comes and it’s not, it I, it’s weird For me, it’s not even about the success, it’s more about the disappointment, and then I’ll pull away and I’ll shrink down and I’ll make it less lesser than it is.

While you’re doing

Wendy: your Homer Simpson. You can, you did that

Kate: really

Wendy: well. You can find me sitting on a couch with my own cheese charcuterie board, drinking a lot of Coke, zero, avoiding everything that I should be thinking about. Cheese

Eric: therapy.

Wendy: Cheese therapy. [00:26:00] And I become really fascinated with, hey, maybe I’ll organize the Tupperware drawer.

Maybe raw socks. Socks need ironing, and I’ll think about

Rob: rob

Wendy: socks.

Rob: He’s never ironed one of my.

Wendy: Aw, I bet you have. My point is I bet you she has, and

Rob: you don’t even know that’s a go-to move. That’s a go-to move right there. But

Wendy: my point is I, that’s my way of. Coping. Yeah. ’cause I don’t wanna have to deal with the feelings of that.

Rob: Oh my God. You watch. What’s gonna happen though? ’cause you often on your socials will post that cheeseboard, and now every time you post a cheeseboard, people are gonna send you message. Are you okay?

Wendy: Oh my God. What’s wrong? What’s wrong? You can do it. Oh no, you’re gonna, you’re gonna be fine.

You.

Eric: You’re gonna be fine. Step away from the cheese platter. What about you? Oh, I can still relate to that. I think one of my go cheese. Cheese. Not the cheese, the the busyness coke? No, just the busyness factor you talked about. Yeah. Yeah. Distracting. Distraction has, it’s it’s a go-to move for me whenever I’m feeling anxious.

I’m a, I’ve [00:27:00] talked about it on the show, recovering over performer and. It serves me really well in a bunch of areas of my life, but again, when anxiety is the energy that’s driving it, yeah. I start tinkering with stuff that doesn’t need to be fixed. I start overthinking. It’s oh, everything’s going well.

Better light a match. Like blow shit up. Like I get my calendar blows up, I fill my time with all kinds of things. Part of it is, Rob, we work together. I am a creator. Yeah. I create I love to create tools, resources, things for people. Even the show is an expression of that.

But I can get into this hyper busy mode of trying to just, I’m just not dealing, yeah. If I keep running, maybe I don’t have to look under the hood and see what’s going on.

Wendy: Do you iron your socks? No. Rob does

Eric: that

Wendy: for me.

Rob: You bet I do.

All (2): Oh,

Eric: no, I’m about Tor

Rob: Simpson

Eric: off the show.

Rob: Yeah. So are all the, where’s the hedge?

So are all the, where’s the hedge? All the listeners are doing the same thing. So we often talk scripts. We often we recognize that we [00:28:00] even started the show. Kate, you mentioned about how so much of this is unconscious or subconscious level. Is there a story or a script that you tell yourself right before you move to your go-to move bef right before you, before the homework?

Before you grab the cheese or do the homer, is there actual story or script you tell yourself? Oh my God,

Kate: yeah. Mine is you’re eventually gonna let everyone down anyways and it’s a pretty powerful negative script, which is you’re gonna fuck it up so you might as well just get ahead of the fuck up.

That is literally the script that goes on in my head and because it’s such a powerful script. Wow. Pulling a homer is really easy. You just like, because at that point I’m like, oh, then I don’t have to push through being uncomfortable with it. I’m like, I’m gonna get ahead of it and I’m not even gonna give it a chance to exist.

Eric: Yeah I think mine’s very similar. Yeah. It’s I’m I might I’m likely now. This was a lot stronger before. It’s less so now. I’ve talked about on previous episodes that the fall of last year into this winter was like a period of like my third grade [00:29:00] awakening in terms of being on purpose, being on point, really figuring out what this next chapter of my life looks like.

And that’s involved taking a lot of risks and putting myself out there and pushing myself. Way out of my comfort zone. Sometimes a bit too much, but that’s my, my that’s the way that I roll and I’m getting more present to that. But certainly before it would’ve been you’re probably gonna mess this up, so why don’t you just exit bail till you fail bail or bail before you fail on your own terms, right?

The one that was even more brutal was more like they’re cheering for you now. But wait till they see who you really are now. That was a really dark time in my life when that voice was so strong.

Rob: It’s a real one. Thoughs real. It’s a very real, a lot of people,

Eric: they think

Rob: that way.

That goes back to even

Eric: the imposter syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. A hundred percent. Yeah. Thankfully, that voice, now I recognize it’s like an old voice wearing a familiar. But that, that when it tries to whisper that, to me it doesn’t land like it used to. There are, I have my moments, but for the most part I’m grateful for the tools I have now for the work that I’ve done that doesn’t have the hold that it used to have.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Imposter syndrome is like just hearing [00:30:00] you. Talk. And then you mentioned That’s exactly what it is for me. ’cause imposter syndrome whispers and still does that. I’m not educated or smart enough to run my own coaching business. Wow. But also run three brick and mortar fitness studios in the city.

Especially around like the finite, I’m not good with numbers. I hate they get, it gives me a rash. I’m good at like the speaking, the being present. Yeah. The, i’ll get my hands dirty with E everything else. But that kind of stuff makes me feel like, why are you can’t do this. This is, you are so in over your head.

And then I get really weird with minimizing the amount of work I’ve put in, the growth that I’ve experienced. Even the accolades and the messages I get. He says all the time, oh, listen to the messages that people send you. And I get them and I’m just like, I don’t. I don’t even know how to describe it.

It’s the weirdest feeling where I’m reading them and I appreciate them, but I’m almost like, but I don’t deserve that. And yeah. And I didn’t really do that much.

Eric: It’s, you’re ch like, and I have been there so many times. Yeah. But yet I

Wendy: tell my kids the opposite thing. You can do it. [00:31:00] Yeah.

Eric: You’re like and yet your voice internally,

Wendy: like you’re going to shine.

And yet meanwhile

Eric: we ignore the evidence. Like the world is giving us evidence Yeah. Of our greatness, of our Yes. Our ability to shine, our ability to be great beyond measure. And yet we just, we’re choosing in those moments to ignore the evidence. We discount it by saying, oh, but they don’t really know me.

Oh, if they only knew minor struggles, like all that bullshit. That we tell ourselves.

Wendy: Yeah. My favorite thing is when somebody sends me a message and says, because of you, I couldn’t do this, whatever, because of you, I was able to do this. And I always default to yes but there’s always a but.

Like you, I may have given you the roadmap, but you chose to drive your own bus. Like I almost deflect where I’m putting it back onto them

Rob: and it’s not an either or and it, there is truth. Yes. They still did the work. And you influenced and impacted them doing that work. And taking, being able to appreciate that they recognized the role that you played.

Eric: One of the things that Mr. Host, I’m curious, before we move on to [00:32:00] anything else, what’s the script you tell yourself?

Kate: Yeah.

Rob: I think it’s very similar to the, I’m just gonna, you guys have really said it right? It’s the, I’m gonna fuck this up anyway. Yeah. And. I think just as equally as if they really saw me, if they really knew who I was, like, this is, and oftentimes she, she’ll do this with me.

You’re so good at this, you’re so good at that. And I quickly will just no, or whatever and I dismiss it because I don’t feel like that’s the case. So I think that the insecurity comes. Like loud and proud in those moments. It’s the opposite of the homer. It just shows up and starts blaring and blasting in those moments when you start to see like

Eric: overcompensating, is that Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah. Relate that. Absolutely. Isn’t it fascinating that we’re all telling the same story? Yeah. In a different context. Yeah. And what keeps people trapped in that mindset is shame if people only knew. Yeah. That’s shame talking. Yeah. And yet the reality is all of us struggle with this at some level during certain seasons of our lives.

If not, it’s a [00:33:00] constant companion. Yeah. That is part of putting yourself out there, pursuing your dreams. Pushing yourself outside of the comfort zone. I think that’s why a lot of people don’t wake up. I think that’s why a lot of people do numb and run and distract and do all these things because to slow down and look under the hood and start asking those deeper questions and getting clear about what who you are and what you stand for, which we’re big champions on the show.

It’s all your fear, right? Every insecurity is gonna come to the surface, but the reality is you’re dealing with that fear and that insecurity now. Yeah. Yeah. Without the hope of creating a better life for yourself. Yeah. So choose your heart. Yeah. The current way you’re living is hard. Yeah.

You’re probably feeling unfulfilled and feeling like your life doesn’t really, not adding up. It’s not, you’re not on point. Yeah. You’re just trying to figure shit out or embrace the heart of. Okay. I’m gonna have to do some work and face some demons and write challenge some old scripts. But that path has hope of a better future.

Yeah. Carving a, yeah. But

Wendy: I think it’s [00:34:00] so important for listeners. I ne you know, even when we started this podcast I never wanted people to think like we all had it figured out, right? I just think it’s you don’t what? But we do. Sorry, what?

Kate: I’m confused this side of the folks. You heard it here.

Rob: What you fuck this side of the table is fucked up

Kate: and this side of the table is more fucked right

Eric: now. It’s a competition. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate: Get

Wendy: me my cheese tonight.

Eric: We have order platter upstairs.

Wendy: With platter upstairs. It’s, but I think it’s. It’s so refreshing for people. I’m sure there’s people listening to it now.

Thinking, thank fuck. I’m not the only one that feels like this. And these people, these people look at us as, oh, they’re professionals. They know what they’re, listen, before those cameras start rolling, we don’t have a fucking clue. No, we do. But it’s just, it makes people feel, it makes people feel like they are not alone.

When we still share openly. Yeah. Whatever, move on. [00:35:00]

Eric: Oh, a hundred percent. No. There again, when we, when you go first, you give people permission to do the same. Exactly. And that’s been the heart of this show. It’s not the four of us coming on here to we’re just sharing our experiences, what we’ve learned along the way.

We learned so much from our guests like two shows back with Matthew and Gundel and Matthew Rippa Young was back and he fucking blew my mind. He dropped a truth bomb in there and I’m like, whoa. And it’s gonna take me time. It’s still unpacking that one. We learn as much from our guests as we, we share, but it’s creating just that safe space for people to stop pretending and start showing up as they are and owning.

The where their life is going. Stop coasting, start choosing, stop drifting, start deciding, stop waiting, start creating. That’s what I want.

Rob: I want us to get into some practical suggestions or steps that we can provide people just from our experience. But before we do that, I want ask, I’m going off script again with another question.

I know I’m scrolling and I’m just recognizing this. We’ve got about probably another, eight minutes or so and [00:36:00] it’s very specific. I like where we’re flowing with this. Even more than what we, it’s for those of you listening, we prepare, obviously for every episode we put some show notes in, but I just, the conversation where I want to go with it is maybe shifting away from what’s in our notes.

What role does social media play. In all of this we often, we talk often about the, social media being that, that brain drain, we look at it, that’s the numbing for a lot of people. We know fear of failure, like fear, whether it’s fear of failure or fear of success.

What have you seen or what, from your experiences, the role that social media plays in keeping people afraid of whether it’s success or failure?

Kate: Yeah, it’s a comparison game. Yeah. It’s. Stop. I was driving with my daughter the other day on a, going to an appointment and she literally is like, we were just talking about pressures and teenagers and she’s you have no idea the pressure that’s on me.

I, so that’s her lens just from a social media. And I’m like, like

Eric: 14 years of age. I’m

Kate: like, so walk me through that. Is it like how you look? Is it, and she’s it’s everything. Yeah. It’s not [00:37:00] just like pressure of, how they look. It’s like getting good grades. Everything now. And I’m like I’m looking at her just wanting to fix it.

’cause she’s my daughter. Yes. And I’m, but I’m like, I feel that pressure. I feel similar pressure. I feel it on like from a success because what does social media highlight success? Yes. It highlights all the good. Yeah. I think we’re starting to open up a little bit about things that aren’t going so well.

It’s starting to shift a little bit where it’s not just the highlight reel all the time, but I think. As much as you know that intellectually, that people are only showing their successes. Even though you know it, you still compete with it and it’s,

All (2): wow.

Kate: So yeah, to me, I’m like, I know that’s not all your life is, and I know that’s not all real.

Oh. But I’m still gonna compete with it. And that’s not rational. I think there’s so much pressure when all are those like moments, golden moments.

Eric: A hundred percent. So it’s highlight reels without enough behind the scenes footage. 100%. We’re [00:38:00] not seeing reality for one, two everything that’s viral is what now determines what success looks like.

Yeah. One month it might be the gap between your thighs and it has to be a certain right, and if it’s not, then you’re off. Or and this is as true for men as it is for women. The pressure of what does it look like to be popular and viral and all that stuff, it changes so fast that again.

For someone who doesn’t have a strong sense of self, hasn’t really self-authored their life by taking control of the pen and begin to define for themselves. And that’s an ongoing process. A year ago, over a year ago when we launched the mindful masculinity episodes on this podcast to speak to men, I had no idea.

That the foundry would be a thing. That, that, that evolved over time. So you it’s not something you write down once. Yeah. And it’s set it and forget it. It’s a, it’s an evolving piece, but it’s being more about, less about comparing yourself to what you’re seeing on social. ’cause that comparison game is a zero sum equation.

Zero. There is [00:39:00] no winning ever. ’cause there’s always gonna be a bigger fish. There will always be someone who’s further down the road. Peers to be wealthier or appears to be more successful or have more followers or this or that and the other. And if that’s what we’re basing our sense of joy and pride and self-satisfaction on, we’re gonna be miserable, right?

So again, get clear on what success means for you and start building that. And if you’re comparing yourself too much on social media. You might want to unfollow some of those accounts and start following stuff that is going to encourage you. If you’re feeling shitty after most scrolling sessions you probably are following the wrong stuff.

Like it’s follow stuff that’s gonna make you feel good if you use the tool in a way that’s going to encourage you and not have the opposite effect. Yeah. For you.

Wendy: Yeah, I think it’s just really. Social media is a it’s different when we were growing up. Yeah. Because we didn’t have that. Like our kids have it now.

And I think it’s really choosing where your energy goes. Because if your energy is [00:40:00] going to things that are serving you or that are making you create stories in your mind. Really is up to you to take those that, those steps to be able to unfollow, I purposely unfollowed or muted certain things so that I don’t see stuff.

Yeah. Because it can become a trap and then you’re just, you’re going down one hole. Yeah. Right down to another hole. And at the end of the day, you can only control what you can control. Yeah. Being really intentional, I think social media is a great tool. But that’s all it is a tool.

Eric: Yeah. How you use it matters.

Rob: Okay. Two more questions. First one is, again, around practical steps. Yeah. So what is one thing that you would encourage people to adopt? A habit, a behavior, a mindset that would allow them to lean more into. Success rather than fear it or pull away from it. What would be one thing you would suggest?

Eric: I would say stop overthinking the damn thing. Yeah, I think we can analyze the shit [00:41:00] outta stuff. Listen I think you do need to ask yourself some good questions. Am I pursuing, let’s say you’re moving in a direction you wanna go in, but you’ve got all this anxiety about it.

Okay is that anxiety because this is new territory for you and this is you’re outside of your comfort zone. That’s good anxiety that, that can really. Be channeled to help you grow. But if you’re doing that thing, if you’re pursuing that thing, ’cause of some should, must and have to, as opposed to something that is born out of a passion of your own heart and is a vision that you have like just you need to get present to that.

If you’re doing it for the wrong reasons, maybe you shouldn’t be doing it or you need to reframe why you’re doing it. But sometimes it’s messy and you can’t tell, or it’s a mi, it’s a mixture of a bunch of stuff. I’m like stop overthinking it, man. What’s the worst thing that could happen here?

You’re gonna put yourself out there, you’re gonna do something. It may or may not work. And then deal with that once you get there. But stop over analyzing every step. Get comfortable being uncomfortable. Get comfortable taking even small risks. And if you take small risks, one [00:42:00] little baby step at a time.

If it doesn’t work out, it’s not hard to backtrack and redirect. It’s not all in, you don’t have to be all in on or go all in on everything. And you’re hearing Yes. You’re hearing that from me.

All: Are you taking notes? I’m taking notes on myself

Eric: but I would say stop overthinking it.

Yeah. Yeah. Just start putting one foot in front of the other and understand. That fear is not the a or courage is not the absence of fear. I’ve said on the show before, it’s not my saying, I’m gonna forget the lady who wrote it, but courage is fear walking. Just fear walking in spite of the fear.

Fear’s gonna show up in all kinds of ways in your life. Keep going. Keep going anyway, right?

Kate: Yeah. I think you have to, you talked about this, but you need to define. Define what success looks like for you. If you don’t even know what it is, you’re not gonna be able to figure out what’s holding you back and what’s you need to be able to define, like we talked about, like my definition has changed so much over the last, I don’t know, 10 years.

So what does success look like for you if you don’t know what you’re working towards? It’s really hard to [00:43:00] unpack what you’re scared of. So that understand where you’re trying to go. And then when that’s clear, you can start to unpack a little bit about, oh, okay. Interesting. A, B, and C. Then you can start diving into maybe what’s holding you back and digging deeper and doing the work.

But if you don’t know where you’re going, you’re not gonna be able to figure out what that fear is coming from.

Wendy: And once you know where you’re going, it’s living on your own terms and making sure that you’ve got the right circle. ’cause your circle, maybe your circle 10 years ago is still your circle.

And that’s amazing. For some people, that’s not the case. Yeah. And it’s about. As you grow with success, depending on what you’re doing. Yeah. You wanna have the right people in your circle to be able to support you with that. And it’s really about deciding where your time and your energy goes.

Yeah. Yeah. And that fulfillment piece. Yeah. Love that.

Rob: Yeah. And I would add it, it is surround yourself with the right people. The people that will celebrate and encourage the people that do send you those notes. Save those notes. Yeah. And things I’ve said to you is create a, an apple note where you’re just.

Basically copy and pasting all of those positive comments so that you can fe use that as fuel when you need it. Love that fuel. Yeah, [00:44:00] absolutely. Find those people in a circle. I know that when you first presented the founder to me, right? My, my heart, my genuine passion was, I love this for you and I’m celebrating this for you.

And I articulated, that was my message back to you was, brother, you better go for it. Yeah. Because I, I. I encourage, that’s what the kind of people you want in your life and in your circle are the people that are gonna cheer you on and celebrate. And I encourage people to absolutely do that.

Okay. I’m gonna, last question is out of the notes, I let you go back on track. It’s near the end of our notes. And the question is, you’ve overcome the fear of success. You are now embracing SU success. You are celebrating it. What are you going all in on? We talked, we opened up the show with, yeah. Being vulnerable about our struggles.

Now let’s celebrate. What are you leaning into at this season in your life? As somebody who is embracing success. Maybe Wendy, we’ll start and then we’ll just go around.

Wendy: Yeah. I think keep adding value to the real life. It’s always been a passion of mine and continuing to serve and to [00:45:00] add value to that.

And, also really focus on growing my three studios. I have a huge goal of being one of the top franchise owners in Canada. Amazing with the, just the value and the experience that we add to people. So that’s, I love it. Totally. For me.

Kate: Yeah. Mine’s similar. It’d be like. Continuing to grow bold lip.

We’ve had some like transition and ownership and so now growing that and really unapologetically going after what we want and growing that in a specific new direction that we’re going, it’s pretty exciting. And then get to I’m so passionate, such a huge passion project for me. I wanna continue investing in it.

And I say unapologetically, but it’s also fearlessly. Love that. Just doing it and keep up the noise. Yeah.

Eric: Love that. Yeah. For me, I think I’d start with all in on my relationships. So All in with you? All in with my kids. With

Kate: me, yeah. Oh, I mean that though.

Eric: I mean that and of course the foundry is I’m scared shitless to do it, but I’m doing it anyway.

Yeah. And creating a community, I think that I’ve [00:46:00] craved my entire life and creating a space for men to. Be okay not being okay. Successful men to grow and find a brotherhood, a band of brothers. Where they can be surrounded by like-minded people. So I’m, yeah. Pretty jazz about love.

Yeah.

Rob: I am. I’m excited about all of those things. I think it’s so nice to be around people who embrace those passions and want to be successful for them. I think for you very much, it’s similar for me. It’s to, to lean in with such authenticity. Specifically in my relationship with Wendy embracing and enjoying the relationships that we have with our girls, having the right people around me, that is just the absolute ultimate for me. I’m excited with the next chapter of where Rhapsody is going. Yep. And I’m leaning in strong on that. Yes, we are. And just really believing that we are in for some amazing days ahead. Yes, you are. I think it’s really exciting to see all of that

Eric: living well, loving being Well, serving

Wendy: there you go. There’s a great

Rob: framework I

Eric: end the day.

Rob: I think that’s something that Harvard Business Journal once said. We wanna thank you for [00:47:00] being a part of this episode and I wanna encourage you to really lean in on what success is for you. Take some of the practical suggestions, take some of the ideas and really embrace.

The idea that you are worthy just as you are, and don’t worry about what anybody else is going to say to you. I wanna encourage you. One of the great ways to figure out and define success is by taking the life vision challenge. It’ll allow you to get really clear on what matters to you. On the rituals that will allow you to lean into those things.

Wanna encourage you to check that out. You can find all of that information@thelivingrichly.me website, including the link to the Facebook group that we mentioned, ’cause we would love for you to join that community. And share your thoughts and ideas for upcoming episodes, and you can do all of that there.

Thank you again for taking time to listen to or watch this episode now. Get out there and live your best [00:48:00] life.