Stuck in the Middle – The Reality of the Sandwich Generation

Stuck in the Middle – The Reality of the Sandwich Generation

Kate: [00:00:00] And so the sandwich really is that you are trying to take care of your family, your kids, your partner in life. You’re trying to do your job, you’re, and then you’re also taking care in some way or form of aging parents. And I think part of the

Wendy: heaviness is because you, you may think in your minds, but it wasn’t supposed to happen

Kate: this

Wendy: way,

Kate: just.

Being mindful that you’ve gotta take care of yourself in those moments and you, you don’t have to be the hero that swoops in and, and fixes everything.

Both: Yeah.

Wendy: Welcome to the Living Richly podcast. We are back for another incredible episode of Real Women Real Talk, and today we’re talking about a. Stuck in the middle, the reality of the sandwich generation. Mm-hmm. And I think, uh, we’ve had these conversations with, uh, several people over the last several months, so we thought this might be a good one to dive into Today we are [00:01:00] diving in into the defense, so we’ll, we’ll just get right into it in terms of, um, maybe our first question.

When was the day when you kind of suddenly stopped and woke up and was like, wow, I am officially. In the sandwich generation, meaning being caught, raising kids, uh, caring for aging parents. What did that, yeah,

Kate: what did that look like and feel like? Yeah. It’s funny ’cause I remember listening to a podcast that Arling Dickinson and Jen Arden had a podcast together for a while.

I love Jen Arden. Yeah. I love both of them. Yeah, by the way. Um, and so when they had a podcast, but they were just talking about real life and real. Stuff. And so, uh, I believe it was Jan Arden talking about like her aging parents. I think she’d lost a parent and there was another parent, um, who needed to be in a home and just how difficult it was to watch your parents not be your parents anymore.

And I remember thinking it was years ago, I remember thinking, oh, I’m not there. Like, I don’t, I don’t. I don’t feel any of that. And then [00:02:00] I feel like I blinked and I felt a lot of it, like really quickly, like I felt for me it happened very quickly. Like my mom’s like super self-sufficient, but when my stepdad died so quick, yeah.

Like suddenly it literally, our roles flipped overnight. Yeah.

Wendy: It’s almost like, you know, when I think about. Raising kids. Mm-hmm. You know, I just got my daughter’s grad pictures in the mail the other day. Oh. I purposely haven’t opened them yet. ’cause we all know what’s gonna happen. When that was like, no, no, we’re recording today.

I can’t, can’t do that tomorrow. Tomorrow. But literally, you know, you blink and it’s, they’re, you know, yeah. That they’re, they’re graduating. And same with parents. And I’ve really felt that in the last year with my dad and I couldn’t agree more with what you said. Like you suddenly reach that age where it’s not.

Anymore about reading what people are going through, you are suddenly right in the middle of it. 100. Yeah, 100%. And if we think about. Kind of what being part of that generation means. It’s almost like a club. [00:03:00]

Both (2): The Sandwich Club, it’s a club sandwich.

Wendy: I love sandwiches. So why? But what? What does being part of that generation.

Look like in, in your opinion?

Kate: Yeah. I think it’s like I was reading something on it ’cause I was really interested in it and it’s actually picked up a lot of like, I feel like the term sandwich generation is getting a lot of pickup in the media, but it really is the first time in history for women where women are working full time.

Yep. We had our kids later in life, so we often have. Like Teenagery age kids, slightly older, maybe slightly younger, but you’ve got kids that you’re taking care of and that you’re like responsible for as you should be at all times. But you know, you’ve got the kids and then you have aging parents. Yeah.

And so the sandwich really is that you are trying to take care of your family, your kids, your partner in life. You’re trying to do your job, you’re, and then you’re also taking care in some way or form. Of aging parents [00:04:00] and it really is just like the emotional toll that it takes, um, specifically a lot of women because we get into that caretaker role.

Wendy: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and, and I think suddenly it’s, we’re not just the one our kids are leaning on, we’re the ones our parents are leaning on. Yes. And even the little things like, you know, my mom last week was I’m having troubles changing the beds because I can’t. Get the sheets on, can you come and help?

And it’s little things like that that they start to lean on us for. And I think most of us, and you know of course. Speaking from a women’s perspective, I think most of us feel like we’re failing at all of it because it’s a season where we’re constantly being pulled in multiple directions. Yeah, our careers are still very important to us 100.

We’re trying to give the best to everyone while keep our own sanity. At the same time, maybe we have a few glasses of wine and know as well

Kate: some ice cream

Both (2): and a sandwich. An ice [00:05:00] cream sandwich. Look at us today. I’m fine with Steve. Do you like ice cream sandwiches? Yay. She

Wendy: doesn’t promise this is not what the episode is about.

Both (2): I dunno. Did you have breakfast? I dunno what’s going on this morning.

Wendy: Um, but to your point earlier you said like suddenly it was just like you blink and it’s, it’s changed. And so for people that are experiencing that Yeah. What does that shift feel like? Going from being your parents’ child to Yeah. It is now their caregiver it’s, or, or a form of being their caregiver.

Kate: It’s hard. Like, I, like, it’s overwhelming. It’s like, I know like, um, for me it was like a very immediate switch. My stepdad died so unexpectedly at 69. They were traveling in Norway on a cruise, and he just. He, he died of, we don’t know what, maybe a heart attack doesn’t really matter how he died, but he did.

And so my mom was in Norway and we had to get her home and she’s trying to figure out how to get John home and like, [00:06:00] so in that second when she called me to tell me. That’s when it changed. Yeah. It literally, like, they had just been at my house. We just had them over before their trip. They were hanging out with the ki like with my kids.

Yeah. And it, it, it flicked and I remember just being like, oh, I gotta take care of her. I gotta get her home. Yeah. I gotta, and then like, help with all the arrangements and then help her with the paperwork and like, help my mom who’s like. Fiercely independent. Yeah. But like John handled all the finances and she didn’t pay the bills.

And like, she isn’t like scared of computers and like, yep. So helping her, and then it’s like, okay, I like helping her navigate her grief. Like, and it really did flick overnight and I remember I went into go mode. So for me that is just like, do, do, do.

Both: Yeah.

Kate: And I didn’t grieve at all in order to help her.

And I think like it’s just, and I remember sitting there at one point and just being like, oh. I didn’t just lose, I’m not just grieving the loss of my stepdad who’s not physically here anymore. I’m losing, I’m [00:07:00] grieving the loss of my mom that I once knew because our roles had just swapped in that moment.

And that’s almost six years ago. Yeah. And we’ll talk about it, but I’m in a different phase now with her. Yeah. But that, in that moment, it, it’s, it. It’s very jarring. Yeah, very jarring.

Wendy: Yeah. And you speak about the grief because I think that’s such a huge element. There’s grief shifting into the role, but sometimes that doesn’t settle.

Yeah. Until like any kind of life experience or, or or traumatic event, um, you go right into overdrive because just like, you know, something happens with your kids. Totally. School gets, you know, I remember when Kayla was young school. Called me and she had smashed her front teeth into a brick wall and her teeth had, right.

And as a mom, you’re like, right away you’re in overdrive. Like, okay, I’m at work. I’ve gotta cancel meeting. Yes. I’ve gotta you do, I gotta go pick her. I gotta call the emergency, da da da. Right. And similar to what you just described. Yeah. You fix, there’s, you know, it’s, it’s right away. It’s that shift. You go right into it and feeling, [00:08:00] feeling that grief shifting into the role, knowing that things are changing.

Mm. And suddenly. You know, I have felt this with my dad over the past, you know, six months or so, realizing that the people that once took care of you Yeah. Um, now need you in ways that you didn’t even know or expect to happen so soon.

Kate: I just, yeah. And I, I didn’t think it would ever. Like, I know this, I, we’ve talked about this before on this show.

My family probably talks like far too much about death. We just do. And so I think like we joked in our house, like, like after John died, that the, the order of the death of my parents was wrong. Yeah. Like we were all like, we were like, John was the, like in our heads, it was just my mom would die first.

Like it was, we always joked about it. And then when that happened, I think it was also this, like, we were just like, I. Never thought that I would be taking care of my mom, if that makes any sense. So [00:09:00] to then have that switch, I remember just being like, okay. Like, and it’s, and it’s scary and it’s unfamiliar and it’s, I think it’s, it’s so emotionally charged and

Wendy: heavy.

Yeah. And I think part of the heaviness is because. You, you may think in your minds, but it wasn’t supposed to happen this way. Totally. This is not how the story was supposed to end. It was supposed to happen like what you just said, like Yeah. Things were supposed to happen in a different way. Yeah. Um, and it’s interesting you say that because I’ve always kind of thought that in my head now, I haven’t talked to my parents.

Yeah. You know, openly about death. I think it’s great that you guys do. As a family. I think it’s, to be honest, like, and super transparent. It’s one of my fears. Yeah. And it’s something I’m trying to get better at with therapy because at the end of the day it’s, it’s all gonna end in some ways. Right? So how do we, that’s a whole other show.

That’s an actual,

Kate: well, I’m about to turn, not when this, by the time this airs, I will be 50, but I’m turning 50 next week [00:10:00] and I’m like, really? Oh, I’m sorry. I’m turning a. 30, by the time this airs, I’ll be 25. Yeah. But I’m feeling like for the first time of my life, I, I understand that that’s probably a great show we could do, but I’m, I’m feeling that much closer to Yeah.

The end than I am to the beginning. Yeah. And that it’s, I’m never hung up on birthdays. I’m not hung up on age. Yeah. It’s not about the number. It’s about the closer I am to death. Yeah. At the end of the day. And it’s

Wendy: interesting, um. Because I remember growing up, seeing now my mom’s an only child, seeing her take care of my grandmother.

Now my grandmother was fiercely independent as well. Mm. Uh, did a lot of traveling and stuff, but there was certain things that she absolutely needed my mom for. And I remember, like, I remember kind of seeing that growing up, and now it’s almost like I’m looking. In the mirror because I’m experiencing the same things, uh, with my mom.

And even though she is fiercely independent and she has a wonderful group of friends, which I love, I think that’s just such an advocate for [00:11:00] women to keep those circles of friendship and the, we’ve talked about it before. It’ll grow and shift and change. Yeah. But to see her with her friends, they have like luncheons and walk club, like all the things.

Yeah. Yoga. I just think that’s amazing because if you’re. Left without your partner, you know that, that

Kate: loneliness. It’s the community like I know. Yes. For my mom, she’s always had a strong network of girlfriends too. My mom does. She goes to the community center. Yeah, she does her aerobics. They’ll go for, uh, coffee after she has her bridge club.

She, my mom is busier than I swear I am most of the time. And so she has that emotional support that is really critical. Yeah. Which she does talk a lot about is um, though how, you know, like a lot of her friends are. Are still married and in couples and they go on vacations and she doesn’t have that. Yep.

That anymore. Yeah. And so it is, going out with girlfriends I think is so important. So important because it gives you that community to talk, right? Yep. Yep. Period. And community’s

Wendy: like the [00:12:00] perfect word for it.

Kate: It is. You need that community along with family, but you need a community of like friends in a similar space as you.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I, I completely agree. Yeah, totally. When we just kind of moving on, when we talk about. The challenges, especially certain challenges that women face in the roles that we carry. Yeah. Um, and some of them, some of them we don’t talk about because we just assume it as, oh, this is just how it is and this is just part of life.

So, you know. What would you say one of the biggest challenges might be for women in this phase? Emotional whiplash.

Both (2): So the, the tug. I love that.

Kate: The tug between. Uh, for me it’s not, yeah. Like whatever menopause age, I’m exhausted. That’s like, the fatigue is a real thing for me. I, I can push through fatigue any day of the week.

Yeah. But the emotional fatigue for me, I’m so heavy. I, I struggle with now and I think it’s because I have teenagers. Um. And [00:13:00] they’re, they have emotional needs. Ki all kids do. Younger kids, it tends to be more about keeping them safe, but like the teenage years are hard and they’re draining. And it’s like, it, they need me emotionally more than they need me physically.

And I find my, my mom needs me more emotionally. And so, and my partner needs me emotionally and, you know, my partner at work needs me emotionally. And so I just, I get emotionally like I’m drained some days. And, and for me it’s, I, you know, I’ll always go to the. Reminder of gratitude and that, you know, you know, to help me get present with, in that moment that I get to be here and I get to take care of my mom or I get to help her with something again, fiercely independent.

Um, but it’s, it’s exhausting. Yeah. And there are. I feel that women often take the emotional burden, and I’m, I’m not gonna generalize, but like men tend to like help fix stuff and do stuff and that’s needed, but the emotional [00:14:00] heaviness of it all Yeah. Is really hard. And you can beat yourself up because you feel like you’re being a shitty daughter and then you feel like you’re being a shitty parent.

Yeah. And you’re not showing up anywhere really good. Yeah. That, that I find the hardest.

Wendy: I think that’s a great. Kind of description of how you explain it, because when I see, like Rob doesn’t have parents. Yeah. And so for him being able to see and experience my parents aging. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And just talking it, like seeing the shift between him.

They’re fixing everything for them, right? Dad will get all stressed out because he, you know, buys a new clock for his bedroom, but it needs a special battery and where’s he gonna find it? And ah, and, and Rob is just very, well fix this. I’ll fix that. Whereas I carry more of the, just the emotional energy of it’s not frustration.

Maybe a little bit sometimes I get that. But, ’cause I saw my mom like that with, with my grandmother and, and, and the frustration just comes from [00:15:00] extreme. Fatigue. Yeah. Trying to balance everything out Totally. But men Yeah. Very much. And I see that with Rob and me. It’s more of the emotional capacity load that I Yeah.

Carry with them, right? Yeah. So, yeah, it’s, it’s just interesting. And, and that emotional piece is that mental load and, and you nailed it right on, like, it’s not just the physical demands, right? It’s the No, it’s the emotional weight of your kids. Depending on where they are in life, uh, and then, and then, and then helping your aging parents as well.

Yeah, and it’s,

Kate: I will also say it’s, it’s keeping like. When I say I can push through the fatigue, I can, but it’s like, it’s okay. I’m gonna be here at four and here at like, okay, at four 50, so I’m gonna drop you off and then I’m gonna scoot down. I’m gonna go over here, and then I’m gonna come back, right?

I’m gonna throw the laundry back in and then I’m gonna cook dinner. Oh, but I gotta vacuum because someone’s coming over tomorrow, right? So I’m gonna vac, I’ll vacuum at 6:00 AM like. It’s that mental load as well that is like, right. You’re just like,

Wendy: yeah, I, I put the laundry in the dryer, but I forgot to press [00:16:00] start, so now there’s mildew smell.

So now I need to rewash. Rewash never happens to me. No. I don’t know why I gave that as an example. It’s never happened to me either. Oh, it never times so much. Wasted laundry detergent. Wasted laundry detergent. Um. If we talk about the emotional tug of war, which I love that we’re kind of getting into the emotional piece of this, um, thinking about how we handle that emotional toll of watching our parents decline.

Um, and I don’t even know if decline is the right word, but, um, shift I guess into just a different phase while raising kids that still need us. How do, how do we, how do we handle that?

Kate: Yeah. It’s like you. There’s a level of acceptance that needs to happen and it’s really hard. I remember like. Like, like my mom’s turning 80 this year and she’s like, you’d never know she was 80.

I like, it’s actually wild. And so, you know, she’s still physically very fit and, and relatively healthy and all of all of the things. [00:17:00] But I I, it’s when you start to see them slowly decline. And so like, I’m laughing ’cause my mom, when we were kids, my mom loves to drive and my mom would speed like a. Sorry mom, but she would speed.

She loved like driving super fast and she her little sports car and she just loved driving and so I, I remember in time just slowly noticing how much driving is not a thing she loves and now it’s like, I don’t wanna drive at night. Yeah. And like it’s just like it’s this slow. Decline, or she doesn’t have the same energy, like my mom’s energy, Energizer Bunny.

Mm-hmm. Like, she’s just full and she’s still full of energy for 80, but like, it’s not the energy. I remember when I was a kid, how can it be? Yeah. Um, I, I think it’s like some form of like acceptance that it’s okay that they’re, they’re, they’re not the same person. That they were, and I think giving yourself some grace to feel some kind of way about it is okay.

Like you can be sad that your parents are getting [00:18:00] older. And then what I will always say and come back to again is gratitude. Just be grateful for the moments you get with them. Like really shift that in those really difficult moments like where you’re like, you know, you’re not telling them that it, it.

You had to rearrange your whole day to go help them do something. ’cause you’re trying to Yeah. Protect them. Try and get into that gratitude moment of like, you know what, like, I, I get this moment with my mom right now. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And I like, I get that you wanna be a thousand other places maybe, or you’ve just got your to-do list is really big.

Mm-hmm. But if you can try and get present in those moments, I think as much as you can, it just shifts your mindset

Wendy: really quickly. Yeah. I agree. And it, it’s, it’s. You know, not everything is a 9 1 1. Not everything needs to be fixed. And especially for women who are very type A high achievers, you know, we did do that great episode on, on, um, high achievers.

Mm-hmm. You know, I think recognizing that we can’t pour from an empty cup. Um, and, and I, you know, that shift of gratitude and, and [00:19:00] the days that we feel the most overwhelmed Yeah. Is really the days where, you know, do I need to really pick that up at the store today? Do I need to really get that? Chore done in the household.

’cause it’s, do I, you know? Yes. You have to do all of that stuff eventually, but getting present with, but I get to be here right now to Yes. Help my mom go change the sheets and maybe sit with her and have a cup of tea for a half an hour. Yeah. Right. Those kinds of things. Uh, you know, I get to walk beside them in this season, you know, I would say the past 18 months I have several friends who’ve lost their parents and really recognizing that, you know, at some point that will happen, but.

When, when overwhelm sinks in, it’s, but I get to do this. I get to live five minutes from them to be able to go help them with, you know, things that they need and just the appreciation that they show. And so I love that you bring that up because that can really, uh, that helps me breathe through those moments.

Kate: Yeah. And I think breathing. Oh, great. Great word in that, but it [00:20:00] is, it’s like, take a breath. Mm-hmm. And remember what it is and what it isn’t. Yeah. Just get really present to that. I think I, it was a podcast I was listening to and, uh, some guy was interviewing someone else. Clearly it’s a podcast and, um, but he was like, okay, do you live in the same city as your parents and this guy’s like, no.

And he is like, okay, how old are your parents? I think he said, whatever is. Parents were like 65 or something, and he’s like, or maybe he said they were pushing 70. And then he’s like, okay, so how often do you see your, your parents? He’s like, I don’t know. Like maybe, maybe like twice a year at most. Just ’cause they’re not in the same city.

He is like, okay, so let’s just say on average your parents, you have like, they have 10 more years technically by statistics left. You see them twice a year, you’re gonna see your parents 20 more times and you could just watch this guy. Yeah. His whole demeanor change and he’s like. I never thought about it that way.

He’s like, yeah. And that, those are the, when you can get into those moments Yeah. To know like you, you might not get to more with them. And I think that’s like the realization of, yeah, sometimes it’s really hard and [00:21:00] stressful and I’m not gonna sit there and deny that it isn’t. Yeah. But like if you can get some little snippet of like Yeah.

Appreciation

Wendy: out of it, then I love it. I think it’s a great segue into. Maybe even talking about resentment because let’s, let’s not pretend that it’s, you know, great all the time and mm-hmm. You know, have we felt resentment towards our parents, kids, even siblings who, you know, um, or, or other family members, um, who aren’t.

Helping or supporting as much? Like have you had that experience or have you heard other people that have had that experience?

Kate: Yeah, of course. Like resentment’s there. How can it not be? It’s getting present to it though, and being aware of it.

Both: Yeah.

Kate: For me, what it is now is I like, I’m, I’m. I can feel it.

I’m like, well, just, I’m pissed. Yeah. Like I’m mad. I’m like, it is not good. But now I like, I call it out. I name it. I’m like, okay, I know what this is. This is familiar. Yeah. I don’t call it resentment, but I know what this is and this is familiar to me. Yeah. By. [00:22:00] Naming it. We talk a lot about that, like naming your emotions on the show, but when you can name it, you’re like, okay, I’m not really, I’m not really mad, um, necessarily at this person, or I’m not really mad, um, like at a specific individual.

I guess I’m mad at situations. Right. It just sucks. And sometimes, yeah. Maybe someone’s not stepping up and you’re like, really like, okay, let me do this again and I’ll just take this load on again. Mm-hmm. But when I can name it mm-hmm. I can eventually let it go. Yeah. So it can move through me when I name it and I don’t hold onto it as long as I used to.

Yeah. And that’s. That’s, for me, that’s progress. It’s always gonna come up. Yeah.

Wendy: So it’s how you deal with it. Right. And I think, you know, to your point, when you’re acknowledging it and you recognize it, it’s when we don’t do that. Yeah. That’s when it festers. Yeah. Um, and I think if there are other people in, um, you know, in life where they’re not maybe, you know, supporting or whatever, [00:23:00] I think.

As women, we tend to just be like, I’ll do it myself. Oh, I’ll do it myself. And I think, you know, having that courage to speak up and say, Hey, here’s how I’m feeling. Um, I’d really like support from, it’s like, you know, we, you know, I’ve shared this before, like sometimes when I’m feeling like, well, and Rob will be like, what’s wrong?

And in my head I’ll be like, how come you don’t know what’s.

Kate: Why can you not? Why don’t you know? I’m like, can’t you see what’s happening? I’m like, no, but he’s not a

Wendy: mind reader. Right? I so in my head I’m like, okay, Wendy, use your big girl words. Yeah. He’s not a mind reader. And it’s the same thing here, right?

Like share, like, Hey, I’m feeling overwhelmed. Um, this is what I need help with. But you know, I think that that resentment piece, it’s just unmet need in disguise. Totally. So if you can kind of recognize instead of like stuffing it down and just ignoring it, what do I need right now? How, you know, do I need more support?

Totally rest, uh, you know. And being able to address that. Yeah. Then we try to act on it. Yeah.

Kate: That’s a, that’s a, yeah, that’s a great way. It’s just putting, putting words to all of it.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. And, and we’ve done a great episode on [00:24:00] guilt and, and this kind of ties into it with, you know, how do we address the guilt of not being able to do it all?

Kate: I’m like, I think like there’s such a need for us to like, ask for help. Yeah. So I’m not good at it normally. Mm-hmm. Regardless if I’m in Sandwich Land or not. Like I’m not, I. Sorry. I’m gonna, it’s ’cause bad language I’m working on. I’m just reinforcing it. Yes. But it’s, I am, I’m trying to make progress. Damn it.

I don’t know if I am, if I’m making progress, but asking for help is like, I think especially when you’re in this sandwich situation is so critical. Like you can’t be everywhere all of the time. Yeah. You’re, you’re, you just, you can’t be spread too thin. You need to ask for help. You need to say like. Hey, can you drive my kid to hockey?

Or hey, can ask a friend to pick up your kid, or Hey, call my brother and say, Hey, can you go help out, mom? I’m not gonna, I can’t make it this weekend. Like, I need you to go. Can you go? And he’ll pick that up. But like, I think as [00:25:00] women, we just so often don’t ask for help, right? Because we’re like, I’m super mom and they’re superwoman.

I’m gonna do it all right. Um, but that comes at your, the detriment of your own mental health Yes. And your own physical health. And, and what I’ve learned, and we talk a lot about on this. Show is self-care. Mm-hmm. You cannot take care of someone else if your cup’s not full.

Both: Right.

Kate: And you, you just won’t do a good job of it.

So you have to find ways to be able to, to take care of yourself, so, so that you can do that. And sometimes that’s asking for

Wendy: help. Yeah. And. Nobody else will do it for you like nobody else. I shouldn’t say nobody else. There will be people in your life that’ll be like, Hey, you look like you’re, you know, needing some help.

There are, there are people like that. Yeah. But for the most part, people are caught up in their own shit. They’ve got their own life. Totally. And so it’s really about taking that responsibility Yeah. For yourself. ’cause if, if you, if you don’t fill your own cup up, you can’t rely on other people to do it for you.

Let’s shift gears just a little bit about. Talking about parenting your parents while raising, [00:26:00] um, kids and, and how we learn to balance being able to do that with. Parents, um, either our own experience or people that we know. Yeah. Um, who are stubborn or resistant. ’cause I think there’s a piece to that where they feel like, no, but I can still do this.

And, and, you know, our kids are like that as well when we’re like, no, but you’re not ready for that. Or, right. Let me write. So how do we, how do we balance caring for that? You know, when they are stubborn or, um, yeah, it’s tricky resistant.

Kate: Yeah. I haven’t like, I haven’t experienced it personally, but I’m not at that stage with my mom yet.

We talk a lot about what that stage will look like and what she wants and what she doesn’t want, and I will honor that. Um, but I have lots of friends who are dealing with it and it is. Absolutely taxing. Yeah, because you, you know, if you’re at the stage of a parent needs care, whether that’s in-home care or whether they need to be in a nursing home, whatever, that retirement home, it’s [00:27:00] so hard for, for kids.

’cause they want the best for their parents and the parents are fighting ’cause they want their, they wanna keep their independence, but if their mental health is not. There and physically you’re worried they’re gonna hurt. Like, I’ve seen it with my friends. They’re like, I’m worried they’re gonna burn the house down.

I’m worried like, um, they’re gonna hurt themselves and I’m not gonna be there. And so, but you, you can’t, you can’t convince your parents. And it’s, it’s this ongoing battle. And I watch the emotional toll where they’re like, I just like, I don’t know what to do. And it’s like they feel. Honestly quite lost.

Yeah. And they wanna help their parents, but they also don’t wanna overstep their parents. And so I just, I’ve just seen that battle and that emotional toll that it’s taking, um, on a lot of my girlfriends. Yeah.

Wendy: Driving is another one too. Right. Driving. Just the fear of. Oh my gosh. Like, yeah, when you’re going through a roundabout like you, yeah, you need to don’t stop.

Right? So I’ve seen friends go through it, you know, and it is, it’s, it’s, it’s taxing, [00:28:00] it’s heartbreaking because forcing someone to accept help is never easy. Whether it’s your kids, you know, whether it’s your parents, but walking beside them, showing them that you’re there for support. Um, you know, I think that’s where progress can happen.

But yeah, it’s, it’s exercising that patience

Kate: and it’s, it’s listening a lot of the time is really listening and without trying to fix, like, if you can sit and be present with your parents and listen.

Both: Yeah.

Kate: Um, you have to walk beside them. You can’t, like, you keep saying that, but it’s like, I not like literally.

It’s just you need to be beside them and kind of help guide them versus like force them. Yeah. But it, it’s, I think being a kid, it’s this like, you wanna please your parents mm-hmm. And take care of your parents and that it’s like this weird dicho Yeah. Dichotomy that happens. Yeah.

Wendy: And I think the opposite goes as well where you remember when your kids are little and you’re helping them learn to ride a bike for the first time.

Yeah. And you’re cheering them on, like, it’s okay if you fall down, like, [00:29:00] let’s, you know, let’s try it again. And. You know, I’ve seen a little bit in, in with friends and even a little bit with my parents, where they’re like, oh, no, I can’t, you know, no, I can’t do that. Or No, I don’t wanna do that. And it’s, no, but you can.

Yes. And let me help you with that. Yeah. Because they get it in their heads that, so it can go the other way around too. Totally, totally. Yeah. If we, we’ve talked a little bit about grief, but thinking about what the, if, if we could say what the hardest part is of shifting into parenting your parents.

Mm-hmm. It’s what? What would you say?

Kate: I think I go back to grief. It’s the loss of the parent you knew. Yeah. And I think that’s the hardest part is yes, you having to step up and help take care. I, I think it’s actually so much more about the grief of you’ve, you’re starting to lose the person that was.

Always took care of you, who’s always been there for you and you’re grieving that loss. Yeah. Like you just, you, you, you don’t even know it at the time, but that’s [00:30:00] really, it’s such a transition, right?

Both: Yeah.

Kate: And you’re losing this maybe person or persons that have always, you know, been that well in my case, have been my rock and my stability, and all of a sudden that’s gone.

And so it’s a very destabilizing place and I think you just, I think it’s emotionally. Sad. Yeah. Like I think the grief is a great word for it. Yeah. They’re still there. They’re still, yeah. But it, it’s a different version of maybe that version you remember, so Yeah. Well, of

Wendy: who

Kate: they used to

Wendy: be. Yeah. Yeah.

Who they used to be. Yeah. I grief for sure. And then to tie that into a little bit of gratitude, it’s those rare moments where they let you in to those, you know, very, um. Authentic pieces of where they are Yeah. Today. Um, right. Where they feel comfortable to share that side Yeah. [00:31:00] Of them with you as they’re going through, as they’re going through that.

Um, tough decisions. Let’s talk a little bit about tough decisions. Mm-hmm. So, um. Have you had, or do you have, you know, people in your life, friends where they’ve had to make those tough decisions for their parents, whether that’s, you know, moving them into care or maybe taking their car keys away. Um, you know, because they’re not fit to drive anymore.

Um, you know, anything like that. And, and how do you Yeah. Or how do people that, you know, balance that?

Kate: Yeah, it’s, I ha again, haven’t dealt with it. I’m not there yet, but what I have seen is that like. What I’ve seen is my friends struggle with like, they truly want their parents, mom, dad, whatever, to to keep their dignity.

Yeah. And it’s like, how do you enable that for them? Because it’s in some way you are kind of taking away some of their dignity. When you’re, like, you, when you’re saying something like, [00:32:00] I’m sorry. Like you can’t be driving. It’s dangerous. It’s dangerous for everyone. Yeah. Right. Like that, that, that you’re stripping them a little bit.

Yeah. And so what I’ve seen that battle be about is really, you know, can you do it in a way that helps them maintain their, their dignity along the way? And I ha I don’t have the magic answer for that. I don’t know. Yeah. I haven’t seen my friends navigate it. Really well either. Yeah. I think you navigate it as best you can.

Comes with your parent. It comes. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Wendy: I’ve started to see it a little bit. Um, you know, with my parents, they’re snowbirds. Uh, they weren’t able to experience that this year mm-hmm. Because of some of my dad’s health issues. But really reminding them that, um, it’s not something that you could do right now, but.

You know, it might be something that we can look at in a couple of months from now, right? Like, just ’cause you can’t do it now doesn’t mean changing it up. Same thing with kids, right? Changing it up. Uh, you know, going into that, uh, overwhelm of just, we talked a little bit earlier. Yeah. But just that [00:33:00] constant feeling of caregiving.

What happens when kids and parents both need you at the same time? How do we, how do we deal with that? I go to the coffee shop.

Both: It happens all the time. New phone. Who dis.

Kate: No, I mean that’s, that’s, that’s life. Like it does, it comes at you. Yeah. Some days it comes at you from all sides and your, your toast. I think for me it’s about knowing, giving myself a bit of grace. I’m doing the best I can in this moment. I think sometimes it’s asking for help.

Yeah. I think sometimes it’s putting up a bit of a, a boundary sometimes. Like, like I have no problem saying to my kids now at the end of the day. Like, it’s nine 30 at night and they’re in and out of my room and like, my daughter wants to take a shower now, and I’m like, Hmm. So I’m tired. Yeah. And I had a really long day and mom needs to like recharge and I can’t, mom needs to not people.

I can’t, I, I [00:34:00] can’t recharge with you coming in and out and like doing things. I’m like, I actually just need some quiet time. And I think finally my daughter. Starting to like get what that means. I’m like, it’s just a long day. And I think what she’s starting to understand is I’m emotionally better when I do that.

Yeah. Um, but it’s taken me a long time to be able to not be like, Hey, come into bed and let’s watch a movie. Yeah. Right. Like, because whatever. I love that too. But I’m, I’m finding that it’s, it’s on me a little bit to find those, those boundaries. Yeah. And, and then ask for help and then sometimes escape to the coffee shop.

Wendy: Well, truthfully, and I love that. I love that you recognize that, but that you communicate that to her as well. Yeah. Because as, uh. Divorced moms. Yeah. That have, you know, uh, kids that do not always live with us. Sometimes there’s always that need of, but what if I’m missing this moment to have it totally with them?

Right. But it’s finding that balance of being able to communicate. But mom’s depleted right now. I just need time to, so I, I love that you communicate that [00:35:00] to her because, um. I don’t think we do that enough. And, and that kind

Kate: of

Wendy: ties to

Kate: boundaries. It does. And I think like the, and it’s funny, I talk about my daughter, not my boys, but my boys are just, it’s just different.

They tend, tend to, they spend more time in the rooms. It’s just, that’s reality. Um, and so I think you, you bring up a good point is. Because I have my kids 50% of the time when I have them, I’m very present and I am very mindful of soaking in every second that I have with them. And so it’s been harder for me to put up those boundaries when they’re here, like with me, because I’m like, oh, but you’re only, you’re not gonna be here in four days, let’s say.

And like, and then I’m like, and then there’s the guilt spiral of like, oh, I gotta pull it together. Just hang out. Just do something like, and then there is that guilt spiral that comes from that. But there are days where I’m just so spent, I’m like, I need a minute.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. And I think it’s, you know, feeling that emotional drain.

It’s like a, it’s like a muscle that you train in the gym, right? The more you recognize it, address it, [00:36:00] articulate it, and share it. Um, I think that’s where our kids learn as well. And I think that’s where our parents learn as well. Mm-hmm. Like I’ve had situations where I’ve said to my parents, I can’t come over today because I am literally 15 hours back to back to back, unless it’s an emergency, of course.

But I can come over. Tomorrow. Yeah. Or whatever, right? Yes. And, and kind of setting those boundaries as well. Yeah. You need to with them. You have to. You have to. Um, let’s talk a little bit about time for ourself. Have you ever felt like you’ve had no time for yourself, Kate? No. Never. Never. Uh, but how and how do you push back?

I know we just kind of talked a little bit about it, but we did.

Kate: I think there’s like. There’s times where it’s like carving out time for you. Like take a shower, take a bath. Like it doesn’t have to be these, these massive moments of time. Right. And shave your legs like if you have time.

Wendy: Seriously, can you just talk about this for a second?

So there’s like Yeah. Showers and baths, but then there’s like the full experience where [00:37:00] you’re like, I can actually put like my salt scrub on. Yeah. I can shave my damn legs. Yes. Like I’ve got time for that.

Kate: Yes. Like that’s a full blown, like that’s the experience. It’s the complete, right. Because most days you’re in and out.

I think you just, you have to find time to shave your legs. No, but you have to have, you have to find time for yourself. Yeah. Like you, you, no one’s else is gonna ever give it. To you? No. So you have to find it. I remember after, um, this is a good one, af you know, you just talked about it too, like, after I can’t come over today, I’ll come over tomorrow.

Mm-hmm. Those kinds of, like, those are important to carve out your time. I remember after, uh, John passed away, um, I didn’t realize I went to see my doctor and I wasn’t doing well, but was like in the heaviness of grief and, um. I didn’t realize, but I was telling her what was going on and, and I guess I had been keeping my phone on because I was so worried my mom was gonna call me and something was gonna happen.

So my phone was on alert all night and I, because of that, I wasn’t [00:38:00] sleeping at all and I wasn’t. And so it took my family doctor to say, I need you to turn your phone off at night. Ask your brother to do it for a while. And I had been doing that for like, I wanna say eight, eight weeks, maybe 12 weeks, maybe two, three months.

And I remember I was just, because I had been up all like on alert at night, like sleeping, but like on high alert while you sleep Yeah. Sleeping, but

Wendy: not really sleeping.

Kate: Yeah. And so I finally had to just tell my mom, I’m like, uh, I’m, I am. You won’t be able to reach me at night, but you can. You can reach Andrew.

My brother was great with it. I’m like, you can reach Andrew if something happens. Just know my phone is off. My doctor is like, yeah. Has asked me and she, I remember her just looking at me being like, I never asked you to keep your phone on. Right. I remember just being like, I did this all to myself. Right.

Yeah. So you talk about the need to put up Yeah, because we think we’re

Wendy: doing a favor. We think we’re.

Kate: But I’m not like, she’s not expecting it. Yeah. But I feel like I’m, I’m like, it’s also part panic that she’s gonna die now because like Right. That happens. And so that was the fear of like, I, I’m gonna make it all better and fix it.

But [00:39:00] like, that’s a, that’s an example of a boundary maybe. But I think like, just being mindful that you’ve gotta take care of yourself in those moments and you, you don’t have to be the hero that swoops in and, and fixes everything. Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah, we were just talking a little bit about family dynamics. Yeah.

But even like super close friends as well. Yeah. Do you, you know, do you feel like the burden falls more on women in the family with stuff like this?

Kate: Yeah. It’s interesting. So I feel like emotionally it falls on me. Mm-hmm. And Yeah. Yeah. I, I feel like all the, um, like my kid’s ex is great. He’s very involved with their, like, I just, it’s, it’s not that I don’t have support.

I, I emotionally feel like I. I own the brunt of it. Yeah. And I don’t, I, I don’t say that as like a total negative. Mm-hmm. Like, I, I really love the connection I have with my kids. Yeah. Obviously I love the connection I have with my mom.

Both (2): Yeah.

Kate: But there are [00:40:00] days where that emotional I. Burnout happens. Yeah. I wouldn’t trade it.

So like I don’t see it as this huge negative. Right. Um, but I will say I feel for women as natural caretakers caregivers, that’s kind of what we do. I do think that women tend to, I. Experience that differently than

Wendy: men. Yeah. And I think we can bring it back to like, men are the fixers. Yeah. You know, women are the, the emotional, um, carriers.

And I think, I know for me it’s the logistics of making sure everybody is taking care of everybody is in their places doing their things. Yeah. And so it’s, it’s the weight of making sure everyone is okay. But to your point. Sometimes that’s not our responsibility and we choose to put that on ourselves, and that takes a toll and it’s really learning to recognize.

What your boundary is and what your final love is, where you have to speak [00:41:00] up and like everybody will be fine, but you have to communicate that. Yeah, and I like,

Kate: I like, I would like empower our listeners, like female listeners, like it like. Order and dinner. Like it doesn’t always that pressure, like if you feel like you have to be somewhere else, like it’s, it’s okay to, it’s not about perfection, it’s just about showing up.

Both: Yeah. Yeah.

Kate: Period.

Wendy: So Yep. And having the right people in your life Yeah. Who recognize that, not that you expect anything from them. Yeah. Um, a couple of weekends ago, we had a very busy weekend, three back to back huge events that, that we were running and hosting. Yeah. And, um. Uh, uh, one of our friends came over at the end of the weekend Yeah.

With a pot of spaghetti sauce. Aw.

Both (2): Because

Wendy: they were like, you probably haven’t had food, a decent meal other than a charcuterie board all weekend. Love char. So it’s, it’s, it’s having that, those people in your circle. Yes. I love that. You don’t necessarily have to [00:42:00] explain what you’re feeling Yes. Or how you’re feeling it.

They just know like. Hey, this might be right. So that’s fantastic. Um, finding the right people in your circle. Yeah. Your community. Yeah. Your community. Yes. In that, in the phase, uh, in the phase of life. Yeah. Um, I think that this was, this was a great topic. I think, I think a lot of people can relate to it.

Um, one final question and, and you know, when we think about kind of from a women’s or female perspective, how can we start reclaiming our lives, uh, without the guilt?

Kate: You have to. I find that hard. It is, but I think it’s, it’s you. It’s the naming it and letting go of it. And I really think that’s really critical.

I think if you can just, it’s okay to not be okay. Yeah. And it’s okay to feel sad and it’s okay to feel all the feel, so feel it. Name it. But just move on. And then. I’m always gonna come back to gratitude. Mm-hmm. Just take those moments and really appreciate it and, and the gratitude always brings you to the [00:43:00] present and it allows you to be fully present.

Like you said, enjoy that cup of tea, enjoy that moment. That might help some of our listeners just, just be in the moment versus thinking. All the other things that are running through their head. Yeah. Yeah. And I think

Wendy: that’s a great way to tie living richly into Yeah. When we do feel pulled in multiple directions, you know, grace over guilt.

Yes. Uh, you know, being able to just really recognize where you are. Yes. The season that you’re in. So, yeah. Love it. Great conversation. We’re, we’re so happy, uh, and grateful that you tuned in today. If this resonated with you, um, in, in any way or you know, someone that this would really hit home with, make sure you hit that share button.

Uh, like, share, do all of the things to help us get the message out because we think that some of these messages are just really important for, um, people who are in the phase of life, um, that they’re in. Don’t forget to head over to our Facebook page. Uh, give that a like, and a share our Instagram page.

And then of course we’ve got our amazing Facebook group, the Living Richly [00:44:00] Nation, which is. Coming up, uh, I think almost, or maybe we’re over now, uh, you know, um, a thousand members that are just really, we speak about community, uh, being able to just connect with yourselves with, uh, the right people in the right place in the season of life to help you, uh, navigate through life and learn how to live richly.

Mm. So until then, thanks for tuning in and go out and live your best life.