Stop Faking It – What Every Leader Needs to Hear (But No One Is Saying)

Stop Faking It – What Every Leader Needs to Hear (But No One Is Saying)

Steve: [00:00:00] If I’m seeing myself as a, maybe a new business leader, or if I’m a business owner that’s experiencing some pain, I’d circle back and say, where could I, uh, improve my communication? The leader’s, the realist

Rob: who is able to truly say, this is where we are. This is the reality. If leaders

Trefor: wanna know like, where am I?

Where am I in that? Mm-hmm. That the only time they need to check in with themselves is Sunday night. Mm-hmm. Right. How you feeling about work tomorrow?

Catherine: You wanna find. That, that sweet spot in between hellish conflict and completely and utterly ignoring Right. What’s going on?

Eric: It, it’s been said, you know, leaders who don’t listen enough usually end up with people who have nothing to say.

Catherine: Mm-hmm.

Eric: Uh, right. You’re not creating, cultivating that. It’s gonna be a problem.

Welcome back everyone to the Living Richley podcast. We’re so glad that you’ve joined us. Uh, we are so. [00:01:00] So grateful for the Living Richly Nation and your ongoing support and, uh, of the show. And I’m, uh, thrilled again to welcome back my colleagues at Rhapsody Master Coaches, each and everyone. Great to have you guys back.

We keep them back. I, well, apparently they’re doing something right, I guess so. Great to have you guys back today. It’s so good to be here. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. And it’s not often that we get the opportunity to all be together and, uh, even less all together in studio. And today, I’m super excited about this episode because we’re gonna be talking, uh, to leaders, uh, whether they’re the owner of a business or a leader in a business.

Uh, leadership is a thing. It’s, uh, it’s uh, both a very satisfying, fulfilling journey. Uh, but it’s one that’s also filled with tons and tons of challenges, and we work. We with leaders every single day, and I think we’ve got a few things we might be able to say to that. But, but let’s start with the fact that most leaders, whether they own their own business or run their own department, that’s not how they got their start.

They started in a job, in a role and, uh, decided at one point or got promoted at one point. [00:02:00] And we talked about it on the last show, and we talked about teams. They find themselves now in a situation where the, they’re carrying all those, uh, skill sets with them, but. They’re also coming face to face with all kinds of things they don’t know and haven’t experienced before.

Right?

Catherine: Yeah. Like if you think about the three hats from, uh, the E-Myth revisited, he talks about technical hat, then you’ve got the managerial hat, and then you’ve got the entrepreneurial hat. Right. And most of the time we see people come in and they’re excellent. At the technical hat. Right, right. Because that’s how they got started.

Exactly,

Steve (2): yeah. But

Catherine: then you start talking about some of the issues associated with managing their people, managing their finances, managing their clients. Um, and then, and then you start to see a little bit of wiggle room starting to happen there. Then you move on to the third hat, which is the innovation hat.

This is where you’re, you’re marketing your company, you’re coming up with new, uh, product [00:03:00] lines, or you’re looking at maybe, um, new software or new hardware. New anything, and that’s where the whole house of cards starts to fall down. Yeah,

Eric: yeah, yeah. And, and again, whether you’re a business owner or just someone who’s new to leadership, even running a department, uh, where all of a sudden now you’re responsible for other human beings, like that can be a pretty anxiety producing thing.

Steve: Yeah. And I think when you don’t realize what you’re gating yourself into it, the, the idealism is, I’m gonna just start my own business. I’ll be my own boss and nobody will tell me what to do. And yeah, I’ll be making more money, more free time. I’ll be, yeah, yeah. I’ll work my own hours and, and, uh, and then, you know, three years later, good, good, good joke.

Start a business. They said it’ll be fun. They said, yeah. That was so cute. That go that way. Yeah. It, it, uh, it is a big. Shift. Yeah. As, as Catherine just said, to move from one role, one mindset to the next, and all of the anxiety that can [00:04:00] come with that as you move, as you move into that leadership role and,

Rob: and the imposter syndrome.

Right. We, we see it all the time where you’ve got. It’s almost like we think, uh, when we move into a leadership role that we’re just supposed to know how to lead. Yeah. Uh, and there’s thousands, tens of thousands of books that have been written on the topic. There’s all kinds of conflicting, uh mm-hmm. Ways you can lead, you know, these books that they all, oh, this is the way and this is how you do it.

And this is, and people are lost in that, and they’re afraid to raise their hand. And ask for help on how to be a leader, because that might suggest now they’re, they’re the wrong person for that role or that they should never have been brought into that role, or they should never have taken over and started a business.

All of these things. So the anxiety, and it leads to so much fear, uh, that people have, and a, and a, a fear of even acknowledging or saying, Hey, I’m not what I look to appear to be.

Steve: Yeah. Uh, uh, one of my clients, we meet twice a month. And she has very specifically said, I want one [00:05:00] of the sessions to be business coaching, sales, marketing.

Yeah. Hiring. And I want one session to be leadership. Yeah. Ju I need to grow as a leader. Yeah. And so that intention I think is so important. Yeah. Yeah. So many times, uh, we use the quote. Things are the way they are because they got that way and like I, I, I’m the type of leader I am because it happened.

And here instead of being really intentional, having a growth strategy or a leadership

Eric: strategy to develop. And it hasn’t been that been a common theme in all of our conversations, whether it be. Building the business that you’ve always dreamed of, building a dream team, a high performing team to help you do just that.

And now we’re talking about you as a leader, how all of it doesn’t happen by accident. That you have to set an intention. You have to be deliberate. I mean, things will evolve. Things will grow, but what they grow into Yes. May not be what you signed up for. Exactly. Exactly.

Steve: And, and we don’t wanna get there by accident.

Right. We wanna get there on purpose. We don’t wanna drift into it. We want to decide our way into [00:06:00] it. I think

Rob: that was Harvard business.

Steve: I think that was something like that.

Eric (2): It’s always Harvard. Always Harvard. Yeah.

Catherine: But you were talking about, you know, the people think, Hey, I, I’m just gonna know how to lead.

Right. Uh, same thing holds true for managing people, and I say to people, why? Why would you think you’d know how to manage people? Did you go to school for it? Right. And by the way, even if you told me you’d gone to school for it, I’d tell you. So what? So like,

Steve (2): yeah.

Catherine: Why would you think you’d know how to lead?

Why would you think you’d know how to manage?

Eric: But I think you go into it many times, perhaps like first time parents, right? Right. You think I’ve got this, I’ve think I’ve read the book, I’ve read the book, I read the book. I don’t want to be like to expect when you’re expecting, right? Yeah. Yeah. I’m not gonna do, I’m not gonna do what my parents did.

I’m gonna do better. Right. Uh, you know, it takes just a few days often before you. Are kind of standing there feeling completely incompetent and in over your head. And I think that’s probably a, a similar journey for first time leaders. Right. And, uh, I think perhaps we forget [00:07:00] that, uh, when we’ve been leading for a while.

And I think it’s important, as we mentioned last time, that leaders that have been leading for a while, you gotta remember what that first time leadership role feels like. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. ’cause if your people are not properly supported, we’re really setting them up to fail. Mm. Yeah. Uh, and no one likes to feel incompetent.

I mean, that’s just the reality, right? Yeah. Whether you’re the business owner or business leader within an organization who does. Doesn’t want to feel, who wants to feel, uh, incompetent or lacking confidence. It’s just not a nice place to be

Trefor: there.

Eric: There’s

Trefor: a great opportunity in there though too. ’cause so many of the leaders, you’re right, we don’t know what we’re stepping into.

Yeah. We think we know we have a picture, it’s not true. But then we step into it and we, we encounter reality. And I think then it’s all about like our posture, about how, how we do that. And if we can do that honestly with ourselves and go, oh, this, this part’s new. I need to work on this part. Mm. You’re in a great spot.

Yeah. It, it’s when people, it, I, I find people will adopt that language of the imposter when they feel like they’re hiding it.

Steve (2): Mm-hmm.

Trefor: Uh, [00:08:00] where if they just can accept, uh, this, this is a new set of skills and activities you haven’t done before, let’s build Right. No problem. I’m not an an imposter. I’m just new.

You’re just new. Right? Totally different. Yeah. I think imposter kicks in when people have been in a role for a while. Mm. And they still have, and they’ve been treading kind of quietly and they’re afraid they’ll be found out to do that. And that actually speaks to the culture of the organization. No, it does that.

Is it safe to fail Exactly. In an organization. Exactly. Or to put your hand up and say, you know what? I thought I knew how to do this. Yeah. But I’m realizing now that I’m actually doing this, I got some gaps here and I could use some help.

Eric: Well, let’s talk, uh, uh, about some essential business skills, uh, that you think a leader are essential to being a good leader.

Whether you’re a leader for the first time, obviously if you’re new in your journey, the skills you focus on might be different. Uh, actually the. The where you are in your journey matters a lot about what skills matter most, but what were, what would be some non-negotiable business skills. We’re gonna talk about, uh, leadership specific skills in terms of leading a team later, but what are some specific business skills, [00:09:00] um, that you think are, are, are super critical for a leader to focus on and develop?

Steve: Well, the first thing that leaps into my mind is this is the skills surrounding communication. Yeah. That’s what I, I I know it is, it’s a, it’s a leadership skill, of course. Yeah. But it’s also just this. If you’re, if you’re not effective in your communication, if you don’t have communication mastery right, then you’re just gonna have confusion and headaches and misunderstanding and, uh, doubling back.

Circling back all the time. Yeah. Fixing things. So, uh. I, I, I really think if I’m, if I’m seeing myself as a, maybe a new business leader, or if I’m a business owner that’s experiencing some pain, I’d circle back and say, where could I, uh, improve my communication? Uh, every organization is the sum of its conversations.

Yeah. So if you’re having really powerful conversations, you’ll have a powerful organization. Yeah. But if you’re having weak, disorganized, uh. Conversations that don’t take you anywhere. Foggy conversations, foggy conversations, and you’re gonna be, um, [00:10:00] experiencing frustration. Yeah, for sure. Well,

Trefor: and that’s where, you know, as you’re describing that, ’cause you kinda go Yeah.

Like we all know communications, right? Is gonna be at the heart of it. But it’s almost like, as you’re describing, I was thinking it’s almost like the leader needs to be able to not just communicate well, but to enable comprehension.

Steve (2): Hmm.

Trefor: So that they’re engaging in communication activities and you can do it really well, but you’ve only succeeded one once.

There’s actually comprehension, right? That’s played out. People actually only one direction say, well, I sent all the emails and I did the slack message and I did the town hall, and like, what else do I need to do? I’m like, do you have comprehension yet? Yeah, because until there’s comprehension in the organization, job’s not done.

Yeah. Right. And so that, and that’s I think where the

Eric: listening skills come in, right? Yeah. Uh, what’s the old adage? You know, you, you’ve got one mouth, two ears, listen twice as much as you speak. And I think a lot of leaders think that communication comes down to their ability to tell, uh, their ability to say, what’s going on now?

I [00:11:00] think I have yet, I think all of us could, could resonate with this one. We have yet to encounter an organization that. Over communicate. Right. It’s like they, it’s, it’s a, uh, it’s a common issue among all of the clients that we have worked with and work with, and we help them. Some of the feedback we get regularly is because of the work we do with them and their teams that they’re having some of the best conversations mm-hmm.

They’ve ever had. Mm-hmm. And that’s part of what’s taking their results to the next level. But listening is such a critical skill. I think it’s a non-negotiable, um, that all of us could do better with. Right. Uh, uh, relationships tend to break down even outside of work. Where they tend to break down first on the communication front, where are they gonna break down in the workplace?

That’s where they usually break down first, right?

Catherine: Mm-hmm. And when you think about communication, that, what’s the, the line? Communicate, uh, communicate until you think you’ve communicated enough, and then you know you’ve got some more to do.

Trefor: Right. I I say keep going until people say Okay. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

Let let them tell you the star rightum.

Eric: Yeah. I still remember a client of [00:12:00] mine. They had, uh, they, they, they, they declared that the coming year would be called, the theme would be the year of communication. Um, and, uh, this was an interesting leader and uh, we made some headway, but he had interest.

Interesting, interesting leader. There was an interesting. There was an interesting vision of leadership there about, uh, it was hard for us. And so for this, this next gener, they need to figure it out too, and it needs to be hard for them. That was basically wow. The right, so that was difficult, uh, context to work in, but he, they declared this would be the year of communication, so they have the town hall at the beginning of the year.

He announces that, casts that vision, and then we’re like, first quarter he had missed a bunch of sessions and I could finally catch up with him and I was like, how’s it going? Oh, it’s worse than ever. And I said, well. When’s the last time you reminded them and pointed to what you’re doing? And he says, well, I told them once, that should have been enough.

Yeah,

Eric (2): yeah. Right. Hmm. How often, often have we heard that,

Rob: right? I told them. Yeah. I’m like, why don’t they get it? Yeah. But I, I, and I wanna circle back to what you said about, you know, this, the comprehension, [00:13:00] because again, most leaders think communication is delivering information whatever way that is. Oh. I communicate through email.

I communicate in meetings, I communicate through text and con. Conversations, but it is, it’s about they’re, all they’re doing is delivering a bunch of information that’s not communication. Yeah. Yeah. At any level. Right. And it is this notion of are you providing and creating an environment where we use this language when we talk, uh, about teams, uh, where people can weigh in.

So they may be, they’ll, they’ll be able to buy in. And so the notion of are there. Deliberate moments, uh, meetings environment where you are allowing that two-way and even sometimes the, you know, in every different direction, communication happening in our organization. And is it safe? Safe it safe? Safe. Is it safe

Catherine: environment?

Yeah. Yeah. That’s important.

Eric: Well, I’ve heard it’s been said, you know, leaders who don’t listen enough usually end up with people who have nothing to say. Uh, right. You’re not creating, cultivating that it’s gonna be a problem [00:14:00] if most of your communication, if you’re a leader and asking yourself, I wonder if I have a communication problem.

I’m gonna, I’m gonna just say you probably do. ’cause we all do. Uh, but if most of your communication is a monologue, you’re doing it wrong. Right? We need to be encouraging dialogue within our organizations if we hope to see engagement, if we hope to see creativity, if we hope to see the, the genius of the collective, uh, unleashed, right?

As opposed to all rusting on the shoulders of the owner. Uh, I think communication’s a critical skill. What are, what are some other skills that you would say are non-negotiable? And I agree with you, it’s a leadership skill, but that one’s a critical business skill. Uh, uh, right across the board.

Rob: I think it’s a critical skill, skill for a leader in a business environment to be able to think strategically.

Mm-hmm. Oh, big time. And to, to, you know, that, to, to step away from the tactical and the day-to-day, uh, and to be able to look at the business from that 10,000 foot view to be able to see where you’re going, where you are, and how you’re going to get there. There and all of the components of that. But that’s would be one that comes to mind.

Oh, I

Eric: [00:15:00] couldn’t agree more. The strategic thinking is missing, uh, for so many organizations, how many organizations that we work with that when we start working with them, we’re like, so what’s your strategic plan for this year? And they look at you like,

Catherine: oh, well hold on. Let me just, yeah, let me go find it.

Lemme go find

Eric: it. If they even have one, they did it 14 years ago and it’s there

Catherine: with the vision, mission, values, right.

Eric: Rights. It’s in the same folder on your computer. Right? Yeah. And

Catherine: you know, that’s so true. And I think also that. If an organization is or a leader is gonna be working on that, they’ve also gotta be working on the idea of, I don’t know what I don’t know.

Steve (2): Hmm.

Catherine: And so as coaches we know, like we were, we use the phrase, are they coachable? Hmm. So if you’re a leader out there, are you coachable? Right. Because that is, that’s the difference between. Little baby steps moving forward and leaps.

Eric: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Trans absolutely. I mean, the, the being, [00:16:00] teachable,

Trefor: coachable.

A hundred percent. I think there’s a piece for leadership around being able to describe reality as it is. Hmm. Um, you see a lot of managers, leaders over responding, under responding, overstating, understating, overdramatizing, not recognizing where we need to. We don’t wanna overstate what’s happening or understate, we wanna state it.

Mm-hmm. So that we’re dealing with an evidence-based reality of what’s happening. Evidence-based statement of what risks are we facing so that you can actually start to make, I. Measured meaningful decisions based on an accurate description of what is, and to recognize, I don’t know. I might be afraid of this, but I’m making that up.

I don’t have any evidence that that’s true, but this is where I have actual evidence of, of what is real here and what’s actually happening.

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Rob: I, I, so right on I, a few months ago, I was having a conversation with the leader of an organization who, uh, no matter what was going on, um, had a, had a positive spin on it, right?

Like, oh no, everything’s great and we’re gonna do great, and. All of their team was like, this is the furthest thing from great. Like, we are, we are in tur. Like we are in shit show mode here. No, no. We’re gonna just like, it’s gonna be awesome. It’s gonna be great. And I, and I took ’em through. And again, there’s a great episode by Ben Bergeron that we have, and we took ’em through those five mindsets of mm-hmm.

You know, from victim to, to, and going right up that chain. This person was the ultimate optimist and, and he thought that a leader was supposed to be the. Positivity driver A right in the organization. And I said, no, no, no. The leader’s, the realist who is able [00:18:00] to truly say, this is where we are. This is the reality.

I, we don’t know this and this is not working. And this is, they’re able to hold both the

Eric: positive

Rob: Absolutely. And the negative

Eric: intention. Uh, and as a result, make better, make, make better decisions, right? Yeah. Uh, so to your point, they’re not over rotating as much. Uh, let, let’s get a couple more out on the table in terms of critical.

Business leadership skills that, uh, are often under nurtured or valued. So,

Trefor: one, I, it’s, uh, I don’t like the category, so I’m gonna unexplained the category as soon as I say it, but time management. So it’s not about time. It’s about energy and attention and focus, and it’s knowing where to focus and when.

And you have to start to be able to, one, do it personally, but do it with your direct to media team, with the others around you as well to say where is the energy and attention going of the people and processes in this organization? And is it going to what’s productive or not? And how do we know? Yeah.

And I, and I [00:19:00] think it, it gets very personal, uh, around what are you doing? How do you spend your day? Do you really need to send that email or be at that meeting or, or whatever. But the, um, it’s that energy, attention focus piece is, is a critical skill.

Eric: Well, I love that you used the word personal there because, uh, the, a second area of leadership that I think is critical and that, that, that we do a lot of work in and is in the area of personal mastery, helping leaders master their internal world.

That includes where does my energy and my focus go? Right. Uh, but let’s talk a little bit about that priority management or focus management, because I did, I do think it’s an area that many leaders struggle in. Uh, Steve, what do you think about that?

Steve: When I heard this statement, uh, it blew my mind. Uh. Time management is pain management.

’cause many times we avoid what hurts. So we, we don’t spend time on what hurts us, what costs us. We avoid it, we avoid it, or we delay it or procrastinate. And so learning to manage the [00:20:00] pain, which might be, uh, often expressed in, uh. Uh, anxiety, feeling overwhelmed. I’m in over my head. Head procrastination.

Yeah. So I’ll avoid it. Yeah. And, and one of our phrases that we use is, what are you pretending not to see? Right. You know, it’s there, it’s the elephant in the room, or now it’s the elephant in the zoom, and it, it’s, uh, it’s uh, it’s. And, and when I heard that statement, I, I just, I asked myself a simple question that really helped me, uh, tighten my focus.

It was this question, where’s my pain? Mm-hmm. Like, what tasks, what conversations, what, um, uh, questions about myself, my identity, what am I avoiding, right? And if I can learn to manage the pain of those tasks or those people or those questions and spend time, and sometimes the pain is telling us where.

This, we actually need to spend time here. Yeah. ’cause there’s so much anxiety and pain. Let’s, let’s, let’s fix that or change that. Let’s experience transformation.

Catherine: In fact, I, I would suggest that if there’s [00:21:00] pain there, that’s.

Steve: The obstacle is the way a hundred

Trefor: percent of time. That’s where think, that’s the function of pain is to say, pay attention to this.

Wow. Right, right. Even physical pain. Yeah.

Eric: Literally. Uh, when you’re in physical pain, you’re gonna try to figure out what’s wrong and address it, and the longer you ignore it, typically the pain doesn’t just go away, that the issue gets worse. I think we spend so much of our time, not forget leadership, just as human beings numbing, running, and distracting Wow.

From anything that’s uncomfortable while get into a leadership role. And all of a sudden the number of things that are uncomfortable just goes up a whole other level, right? Because at the end of the day, there’s a lot, it’s a much higher stakes, uh, position role. There’s more demands being made of you.

There’s more expected of you. Uh, so man, learning how to manage discomfort, learning how to listen to pain and pay attention about what it may be teaching you. What you may need to work on, I think is critical. Yeah.

Catherine: And that really leads into, uh, another, uh, thing that we can work on as leaders, like internally, [00:22:00] is the ability to have those painful conversations.

Steve (2): Right, right, right.

Catherine: Yeah. So are you the type of person that avoids them or are you the type of person that embraces them? Because neither.

Steve (2): Yeah,

Catherine: because you don’t wanna be embracing conflict. You wanna be creating productive conflict, right? You wanna find that, that sweet spot in between hellish conflict and completely and utterly ignoring, right?

What’s going on? And that requires skills, percent. It requires skills, and it requires courage, and it requires practice and a willingness. To steps outside of your comfort zone. Oh, big, big time.

Eric: I, I just working with a group of leaders last week and, uh, in the room were some brand new leaders that had just come up into what’s like a team lead type of role.

Um, and as a result, uh, they’re finding themselves now. [00:23:00] These folks were my, were my colleagues, right? And like, I literally, the folks I’ve been working with now all of a sudden, um, and, and again, the organization has done nothing to prep. Them for that or to give them tools for that. So when, uh, the topic of, well, it’s about having difficult conversations comes up.

Yep, that’s true. Don’t know how to do that. So it scares the shit outta me. Like I, I, I don’t have a framework, I don’t have a model. I don’t have. It’s, it’s, it’s an area that we really need to equip leaders to be far better at, but we need to give them.

Steve: And then what I love about the work that we do is that oftentimes business.

Owners, uh, leaders, they don’t have time to be finding the best practices and frameworks and Right. They got other, other fish to fry. So that’s what we do. Yeah. We’re, we’re, we have our ear to the ground, we’re listening for what’s the new, new models, new frameworks, new approaches to help. Uh, uh, leaders, uh, uh, be able to introduce it to their teams or embrace it themselves.

And so this is why a coach can be such a great resource ’cause we’re spending the [00:24:00] time finding the tools that you need to help you grow and help your team grow as well.

Rob: A few months, a few months ago, I’ve got a new emerging leader who’s, uh, doing quite well in business and being very successful, but he’s trying to figure out his, his leadership.

Uh, style and you know how he wants to lead people. And I remember going into, uh, into one of our, uh, coaching sessions a couple of months ago and he said, okay, I’ve figured it out. And I said, oh, okay. Wow. That sounds he, he sounds convinced. Yeah, this sounds interesting. He says, I’ve decided I know what kind of leader I want to be.

I’m gonna be. Exactly like Elon Musk. Oh. And I’m gonna just, I’m gonna dictate to people the way he does. ’cause he gets shit done and that’s how it’s gonna work. I’m like, alright, try that out for a few months. Let me know how it works for you. Let me know how many more, how many of your employees you still have.

After that time. I said, I said, no, no, no. You don’t. You don’t wanna, you don’t try to be anyone else, right,

Steve (2): exactly.

Rob: Try to be you. Find the stuff within you. I said everything you just described about Elon Musk again, maybe it’s made him successful. Maybe it’s not. You can debate that, but none of those characteristics are found in you.

I know you too. Well, that’s not [00:25:00] who you are. Right. That would be so contrary to the kind of leader that you would want to be. Um, but it was a funny, you know, kind of like, okay, he’s decided it and this is exactly what he’s gonna emulate.

Eric: Well, we talk about mindful leadership more and more in the work that we do.

Mm-hmm. Mindful leadership being you need to figure out who you are. Yeah. What is your, what kind of leader do you wanna be? I’m, I’ve been doing more and more of this work with my clients, helping them develop even a. Simple vision around what type of leader do they want to be remembered as? Right? Uh, the vast majority, we talk about the importance of vision, mission, and values at the corporate level, but how many leaders are even clear on what their personal values are, what their leadership mission and vision looks like.

Yeah. And it doesn’t have to be complicated, but I, if we don’t have that for ourselves, we’re gonna borrow it or inherit it from all of our other experiences, and that’s gonna come with. Some good things and a lot of baggage, right? Or we’re

Rob: going to take on the leadership style that the people in your organization are telling you you need to be, right.

Right? [00:26:00] Yeah. And again, they don’t necessarily know what they want. They know oftentimes what, well, you need to be this kind. You need to be more of an engaging listening leader because they need and want an engaging listening leader. And they will put on you, just as we’ve talked about in our personal life, if you don’t.

Figure out what your values are. If you don’t figure out who you are, you will live by somebody else’s description of you and by somebody else’s values. The same is true in leadership,

Steve: and that brings us into our beliefs. Hmm. So what do I believe about myself? Yeah. What do I believe about those around me?

What do I believe about the world I’m in? And even just to circle back a little bit about time, uh, time management’s kind of a weird phrase. We don’t, we’re not really crazy about it. But yeah. Uh, what do I believe about time? So there’s, there’s two mindsets You can have, uh, time affluence or time famine and what you believe about.

Time will dictate your energy. Where, where you spend your time. Do you believe [00:27:00] there’s enough time to get everything done? How you doing? Well, I’m busy. Uh, frantic, frantic, rush, rush, rush.

Eric (2): And, and isn’t it, what’s the most common when you ask someone how they’re doing? Busy. How are you busy? Like it’s, and then they stop and then they try to put it back on you.

How are you? You’re busy. Too busy too. Yeah. It’s almost like it’s a badge. Let’s make it. Because I’m busy. That’s right. And

Steve: there’s a, there’s a great TED talk from a surgeon. A surgeon, I believe it’s in a, a triage area, and, and they don’t answer. With busy. When they say, how are you doing? They don’t say busy.

They say, ready? We are ready. Mm. I like that. I know that’s would be awkward maybe in a, in an exchange. Let’s do, I figured out. Depends who you’re talking to. I,

Catherine: I’m ready. Whoa.

Eric (2): Easy there. How you doing? Easy there, big fella.

Steve: So I take my, my dogs for dogs, uh, dog park walks. Uh, and uh, I talk to the neighbors and I say, how you doing?

And they say, busy. So I’ve rehearsed it and they say, how are you doing? And I say, well, [00:28:00] it’s, it’s, it’s a full life right now, but I’m ready for it. And they kinda look at me like, oh.

Eric (2): That’s interesting. And then they walk away and they,

Steve: and then they’ve run away. Then they run away. And, but I, I know you, we feel pressured to buy into the belief system that there’s not enough time, and I don’t think that’s true.

We, we get to decide, uh, how we spend our time.

Rob: One of the, uh, you, you guys know that I, uh, I’m a big fan. Wendy and I will have done a number of times this challenge and, and mm-hmm. Part of the challenge, it’s, it’s basically completing, um, a bunch of tasks. In every day that you have to complete them. And it’s a mindset challenge.

And the whole point of it is, uh, the, the real kind of heart of what’s behind it is you have control of your day and if you plan and schedule and, and do the things right, you can accomplish way more. Then you realize, so I have to do two workouts a day. I knew we were gonna have a full day with recording today.

I had to map it out and plan out [00:29:00] when am I gonna get my two workouts in Right. To make sure that there, and that meant setting an alarm getting up earlier than I would, uh, maybe normally get up in order to do that. But I have control over that. Right. And the idea that time controls you doesn’t that no leader.

True leader will ever use a phrase like

Eric: that. Well, let’s just give up on the whole notion of controlling time or even managing time. Uh, already we have been in a conversation for 20, just past 29 minutes since we launched into this podcast. Nobody here did anything to move the minute from one to the next to the next.

Yeah, but I could pause it. Time just elapsed, right?

Rob: I could just take the remote

Eric: and pause it. You could pause it. Time will continue. Rob, I know this is gonna blow your mind. Time will continue even if you pause the timer. Whoa. Right. So let’s just, like, it’s not about that. It’s about managing our choices and our priorities within time.

Right? A hundred percent. And I think the best definition of wisdom, and there’s a word that’s not used enough in today’s, I love that today’s world of leadership, like we [00:30:00] just don’t use it enough. We talk a lot about knowledge. Mm-hmm. Like knowledge is power. Uh, like how the person with all the knowledge, you know, is gonna rule the day.

But you can have lots of knowledge and actually be quite unwise. Uh. Wisdom is the way it was defined for me years ago and I never forgot It is, um, the right thing, doing the right thing at the right time in the right measure. And I think a leader working on getting, are you ever gonna get all three?

Perfect, no perfection’s never the goal. But when we’re able to ask ourselves, what’s the right thing to do in this situation? And is it actually the right time? ’cause we’ve all seen things introduced at the wrong, was the right solution, but introduced. At the wrong time. It’s a colossal failure. Uh, but then even if it’s the right thing at the right time, are we gonna go like full in on this real fast?

Are we gonna take our time? What does the right measure look like? We have far more control than we give ourselves credit for, right? When it comes to our decisions and whatever else. Uh, uh, again, this whole notion of time and the use of it managing our energy expectations [00:31:00] huge. Yeah. So if. Rob, if, if what we

Steve: believe about time is I’m taking over the hosting job.

Alright. Is that what you’re doing? Yeah, that’s what I’m doing right now. You hijacking. Good job. If, if our beliefs, I’m gonna take a break. If our beliefs about time are important, how we spend, how we spend our time, our energy around time, what are some other limiting beliefs that you bump into when you’re coaching leaders and developing leaders?

What are some of those belief ceilings that you experience with the leaders you coach?

Rob: I think probably one of the top ones for sure would be as leaders. Uh, the, it’s, I dunno if it’s a self-limiting belief or just a limiting belief is that my, the people are not capable of doing or following. We hear that so often.

Wow. Right. I don’t trust I

Trefor: need to get run. I have to do it Right. I have to, if myself, I have to, I’m gonna get it right. It’s gotta be me.

Steve: That is so destructive. You cannot grow or scale a business. No, you can’t. You’re so stuck. If, if you don’t trust your people to do the job. Let’s face

Eric: it. Uh, if, uh, I’ve had leaders tell me if I hear one more person tell me that in order to be a better leader, I need to delegate more, I might [00:32:00] strangle somebody.

Right. They know it. We know that’s the case. There are, yes. I think there are skill sets that are essential for every, for any leader to have. We’ve talked about some of them here today. There’s no way we can do them all justice in one episode. Mm-hmm. There, there’s also the reality that it’s about leveraging other people’s strengths, giving other people.

Opportunity to shine in areas that you don’t, right. Uh uh, but delegation is a huge piece of that. Mm-hmm. Uh, but ego, loss of control, right. Letting go. Mm-hmm. Those are big, big obstacles. I, uh, uh, and,

Rob: and along those lines, I had a, a client recently basically was saying that I said. Wouldn’t it be amazing if we could clone you?

’cause since you are the one that does it, right, let’s clone you. And he goes, oh my God, I wish that there, that that really could happen. Because I would pay a lot of money for cloning. So I said, okay, I’m gonna jack up our pricing ’cause I’m about to clone you. Let’s do that. Right? And that was around then.

Let’s create the right systems. Mm-hmm. That allow your team to do it. The way you do it. Right? [00:33:00] Right. And to be able to create that kind of environment, a duplicatable system. So I get what you say about, you know, we think, oh, if I, I don’t ever, you know, say the word delegation, I’m gonna strangle someone who says delegation.

It’s ’cause you’re doing delegation wrong.

Trefor: Usually when people delegate, they abdicate. Yes. Right? They just kind of go, okay, it’s your problem. Now. They don’t provide support, guidance, resources, check-ins, any kind of framework about expectations, and then it doesn’t go well and they’re like, see, they’re an idiot.

But then they blame

Eric: the person a hundred percent. Like they, when you, you look at the. The root, the etymology of the word delegate. Uh, it comes from the same root word as the root word, legacy. Um, and I think a big problem, uh, is we have a belief around delegation. I love the abdicate piece. I think that’s really true.

That’s true. I think it’s a, it’s, it’s, I want to get stuff off my desk and onto yours. Right. But delegation is much more than the passing on of tasks and responsibilities to others. Uh, what is legacy? Legacy? Was it Phillip Yancy who said it’s the wake. Bo a ship leaves in the [00:34:00] water long after it’s passed out of view.

Legacy is the deposit we leave in other people. The difference we help make in their lives. Delegation at its core is about making better people. It’s about building better leaders. It’s about helping people go beyond what they are now and have the capacity and capability be better problem solvers, better decision makers, right.

Again, that takes a, a secure leader, uh, who doesn’t feel like they need to be the center of the room. If you’re insecure, you’re gonna be really challenged by really smart people around you. So we tend to hire to our degree of, of ego comfort. Right. But I think

Catherine: that’s so important, what you’ve just said there, Eric.

It’s that insecure leader, which can show up in so many different ways. Right. And we talked about ego. Um. It’s not enough to say to somebody, well, you gotta delegate more, right? Because if they don’t know how, or they have something internal that. Some subscript that’s telling them, oh, for the love of God, do not delegate [00:35:00] because this will happen.

That was formed way back in their life. Right? You’re never gonna get them to make those changes. And so part of what. We do and do so well at Rhapsody, is we help those leaders find that internal dialogue. Change the internal dialogue. Yeah. With the tools and the training that we’ve had, but doing it in a dare I say, gentle way because for many of us, changing ourselves internally can be, especially the ways that we’ve learned how to do it can be torturous.

Eric: Right. Right. Yeah, agreed. A hundred percent. I think a part of what our differentiator is, uh, as a company is our availability. If you’ve got business challenges, whatever business challenges are holding you back, we can help you with those. Whatever team challenges are holding you back, we can help you find a better way forward and whatever personal, internal.

Obstacles or leadership [00:36:00] challenges that you are facing as a leader, we can help you with those as well. And that’s usually the realm of different types. We bring together a number of modalities, right, that I think create a really winning combination, uh, for leaders. Can let, let’s shift gears. If we might, back to like, we’re, we’re talking a lot about both business mastery skills, personal mastery skills.

Let’s face it. Leaders have never been in more trouble than they are today. Uh, leaders were already, the stats were already frightening, uh, about the rate of burnout. Uh, the rate of like, so, uh, just like stress being over the top. And then Covid showed up, said, you know, hold my beer and made it that much worse.

Right? And now we’re trying to, leaders are trying to adjust to this new world post covid and um, uh, all these battles. How, what conversations are you having with your leaders around the management of stress, the management of anxiety, uh, the management of their own internal world and mindset in the midst of their, of all the pressures that are, that they have.

Steve: [00:37:00] Overload and restoration. Mm. Overload and restoration. Overload. And restoration. That’s how we build muscle. It’s how we build endurance physically, but also when it comes to our emotions, our, our mental health is that, yes, of course there’s high demands and there’s gonna be overload. Moments when I’m working hard and I’m putting out a fire or I’m developing a plan.

That’s really important, but it’s. Also something that I had to be very intentional to say, I’m not just a overload leader, I’m also a restorative leader. Mm-hmm. I know how to rest, I know how to unplug. I know how to, uh, switch my context from, from work Steve to playful Steve or Grandpa Steve or whatever it might be.

And very intentionally, and I love the word Eric, that mindful leadership, mindful business owners, mindful, uh, just being very aware that I. Can’t just stay on, on, redlining it constantly, right. And then bring that red line mi mindset into my home [00:38:00] life, or with my friends, or, or

Catherine: to your teams or, or your teams, right?

Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. And so it’s, it’s, uh, it’s knowing how to. Go hard, but it’s also knowing how to just calm down, relax and rest. I know that’s really basic. You think we’d have it figured out by now, but at the same time, our world hustle culture Yeah. Is go, go, go, go. Push, push, push. And it’s like a badge of honor, uh, to be exhausted.

Right. And, and burnout is, is no badge of honor. I’ve been through it. It’s hell. I’ve been there too. Yeah. It’s hell. And so, uh, learning how to restore and being really intentional and I love when my. Coaching conversations. We, we go into that conversation and we talk about what, what do you do after work?

How do you rest? How do you let go of your toxic emotions? Yeah. What if someone loses their shit on you during the day? How do you let go of that before you get home to your kids or your spouse or whatever it is? And, uh, yeah. So that, those kinds of conversations, I think are really vital. And burnout

Rob: doesn’t happen because you’re working hard.[00:39:00]

Or you’re working long hours or even because you had a, you know, uh, an interaction of work that’s really bad and how do I not bring that home to my kids? Right? Burnout doesn’t happen because of that stuff. Burnout happens because you’re doing things that are misaligned or not aligned at all with what matters to you, to your values, to what is your purpose.

If you are living out of your values in your work and everything else, you can work 80 hours in a week and feel energized and ready to go and not feel. Oh, I need to now decompress or rest, right? When you are living outta your purpose, uh, that’s when life becomes truly worth living. And that’s why, you know, we get away from just saying, just go figure it out.

And that’s why the challenge was, was, uh, introduced in the first place. I, I remember when

Catherine: you told us about. How you finally came to a place where when you went on vacation, it wasn’t to restore

Rob: well, and it was to have fun. Honestly, for me, that has been a while that I’ve been able to do that is that that [00:40:00] is absolutely the case.

We hear it all the time from people who say, oh, I go on vacation, it takes me two or three days to decompress. No, no. Or it takes me the whole the whole time, or it takes me the whole time. I, I, I come home and now I’m anxious about what’s waiting for me to get home. I, I can go on vacation and I’m decompressed two days before I left.

Right. No, I mean, I’m, you’re, you’re old.

Trefor: Hey, old. If leaders wanna know like, where am I? Where am I in that? Mm-hmm. That the only time they need to check in with themselves is Sunday night. Mm. Right. How you feeling about work tomorrow? Right. Right, right. And, and that the answer to that question will tell them how close they are aligned.

Between the purpose of that they’re living out in their lives and the nature and the activities of the work that they have, and how likely they are that to, to that they’re, they’re leading to a burnout. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely. Because see, right, they, they say suffering is pain without meaning. Mm

Steve (2): mm Right?

Trefor: Yeah. We’re gonna experience pain. Yeah, we’re gonna get that. But when we, when we can’t align any kind of [00:41:00] meaning, like this is hard. I don’t know why it hurts. I don’t know what I get. I don’t know where it’s going. All of that kind of stuff. That’s a kind of suffering that leads to burnout. Mm-hmm. The, when we can make sure that what we’re doing is aligned with what matters to us, it, the work actually becomes energizing.

And that’s not an excuse to say, now you can work even more. No, no. It’s about craft your life the way you need to, but to find the, the alignment between those pieces as you work your way through. The thing is, it goes to a core skill though, I think, for our personal mastery, which is you can’t do that without reflection.

Right? Mm-hmm. Yeah. You have to create time to look around and go, what’s going on? What’s going on with me? And if it’s Sunday nights, I’m gonna check in with myself. Yeah. And maybe I’m gonna score myself for the next six weeks on Sunday evening on about scale of one to 10, how excited or aligned do I feel with my work?

Right. And start to say, what actions can I take over the next six weeks to bring that? To a, to a better score to where I want that to be. Yeah, love that. You can take that reflection and then do the other [00:42:00] critical part, which is put it into some kind of tangible action. I

Eric: just had this, uh, I love that you’re bringing, and that’s, uh, such an important aspect I think of mindful leadership is some reflective practice have in your life where you’re checking in and you’re learning more actively from what you’re experiencing.

I think most of us, a lot of leaders just live their lives with their heads down and uh, and they’re leaving lessons on the table all the time. A lot of me, it feels like meaning. The suffering, right? Because they’re, we’re not applying. We’re just moving on to the next item on our to-do list. I had a, a group of leaders I was talking to senior leadership in a pretty large organization.

And, and the owner, the, the main part, the, the, the, the um, um, majority partner is very frustrated. He said, my leaders just aren’t there yet. And I’d heard him say this now about three, four times. And so I challenged him. I said, Matt, how will you know when they’re there? Which the entire room went quiet. They all kind of.

Like, like what do you mean by there? What is what? What is their, what is there? What is there look like? Yeah. Right. Well, this turned a series of conversations and make a long story short, they identified [00:43:00] six characteristics that they believe are essential to being an effective leader. Wow. In that organization.

I was part of a conversation last week where they introduced this to their middle managers and they had developed not only, uh, like. Clear cri like, what, what are these six characteristics? But a, a self-assessment to ma to, to say, how do you think you’re doing on this? And what was really powerful is they went first as leaders.

So the three of them, uh, introduce it, introduce the self-assessment. Uh, I encourage everyone to, uh, kind of do it and then look for maybe two or three areas of improvement. And then these three leaders went first and said, here’s where I think I need to improve. And one of the leaders, uh, her, her area of growth was to.

To practice more reflection. Yeah. Uh, right. Uh, but o often, again, we don’t have, we don’t know what we’re moving towards. No. Uh, because we’re kind of flying blind. And I think reflection to me is like, yeah, a leadership superpower like that is probably your most, where you see it’s the toughest thing

Trefor: to get people to do.

Oh. Because

Catherine: it takes time. It takes

Eric: time. It [00:44:00] takes time. Right. And, and so how do you encourage your leaders to practice more of that?

Trefor: Uh, get them to schedule it, right? Yeah. And I get them to put it in their calendar while we’re on the call and to invite me. As part of that time, they invite me to the meeting, to the time that they’ve blocked, and then at random I check in.

I’ll send them a quick note. In that moment, are you doing it? Uh, yeah. Basically like checking in, going, are you there doing it right now? What, what did, what did you learn? And then we check in on it when we, when we have our conversation saying, what did you observe? And very often the, the bit of feedback I get at the beginning is, I don’t know what I’m doing to reflect.

What am I reflecting on? Right? And so we’ll start to craft a few questions that they can use about, go explore this. What did you observe about how your team was functioning this week? I. When you look at it, what was functioning just the way you had hoped and, and what needs some work or what processes are clear or where do we fit relative to other groups or how, how aligned do [00:45:00] I think I am with my team and what would be the evidence that would prove it?

So not just what I think they are. It’s like, no, prove it. Like let, let’s make the case around it. But I think helping them block the time and then providing some tools to start that practice of reflection. ’cause then over time it gets easier and easier. Yeah, a hundred percent. I

Catherine: find you actually have to, or I have had to actually teach them.

How to time block, and I don’t mean, hey, I’m gonna do this from two till three, that’s not enough. It’s how do you create sacred time?

Steve (2): Mm-hmm. Whether

Catherine: it’s for reflection or restoration or to go and work out or whatever, working on an important part of your business, right? Or working on an important part, working on the business, right?

Mm-hmm. But that sacred time, how do you create it? And sometimes what I, I I’ll do is I’ll use the example of like, when was the last time you went to the dentist? And they’ll say, well, I don’t know, six months ago. Yeah. Did you take your cell phone with you? Yeah. Okay. Did it ever [00:46:00] ring while you were at the dentist?

Yeah. Did you answer it? No. I, I, I couldn’t. My mouse was full. It’s like, right, so we’re gonna freeze you in a chair and teach you how to reflect. I like that’s a great

Eric: plan,

Catherine: but it helps recognize that. Yeah, you know what? I do do this. I already have done this. It’s not that it’s impossible. I just, I just

Eric: tell myself it’s,

Catherine: I just tell myself that it’s, yeah, I,

Eric: I, uh, I use something similar.

I, I get them to treat that time. I want you to pretend this is your most important client. Would you just move that meeting? Without careful planning, uh, would you like treat that relationship with that much? That’s good. One disregard, right? Like no. If it was your best client, your number one client, you would keep that meaning come hell or high water.

You need to start treating those moments in time that are critical to one your own wellbeing and to becoming a more effective leader. Treat it just like you would treat that meeting.

Rob: And it comes back to beliefs. Yeah. Really does. Comes back beliefs around go.

Trefor: It does. So the, I [00:47:00] think also helping them understand that that function of reflection.

Cannot be delegated. Yeah. Only

Eric: they can. Well, I can’t get that too much. Right. I gotta de I was told I need to delegate more. So ea here.

Rob: Yeah. I’d like you to do some reflectful for me. Be thought for me, she,

Trefor: and I think that’s an important one, is to recognize what in a, what in a role or a function can be delegated and what can’t.

And that is a function that only they can do. Only they, they cannot hand that to anybody else. They own that. And if they’re not doing it. Right. Then there, there’s a gap there in their leadership. Yeah, absolutely. Right.

Eric: Well, it’s the, the, the, what’s the old saying? The one thing we learn about history is that we don’t learn from history.

Mm-hmm. Uh, we tend to, without reflection, you tend to stay stuck in the same cycles and patterns of behavior and not learn the lesson. And again, we’ve said it on the show before. I think the universe is a wonderful thing. Uh, you don’t really fail the test, you just keep. Getting to [00:48:00] take it over and over again until you pass.

And so until you learn the lesson, uh, chances are you’ll keep running into similar scenarios, perhaps in different contexts with different players, but that’s gonna keep showing up until you learn what you’re meant to learn. And reflection helps to accelerate that process. Uh, and one person who posted, uh, I posted a video on reflection not long ago, a reel on it, and the person said, this is how I’m trying to live my, my life.

I hate Loop de loops,

Eric (2): you know, that’s brilliant. Don’t. Stuck at a loopty loop, right? Oh my God. Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Catherine: But you know what you were saying about beliefs, what a perfect thing to reflect on.

Steve (2): Mm. Yeah. Right.

Catherine: There’s, there’s what you use your reflection time on. What are some of my beliefs? Wh where, where I’m finding gaps in the organization or where I’m finding interactions that aren’t working well, what are my beliefs about those?

Right. Because guaranteed. That’s what’s driving your behaviors. You have one? Yeah.

Eric: And I think again, yeah, you have one. Yeah. That’s part of the difference. Uh, uh, it’s, uh, [00:49:00] most, most traditional business coaches focus primarily just on business issues, right? Business tactics, uh, business processes, right? Best practices, that kind of stuff.

Uh, the average leadership. Coach focuses primarily just on leadership competencies, right? That, uh, to and best practices. And both those things are, those modalities are extremely useful, but I think that component that we bring in around mindset, around beliefs, personal mastery, uh, helping leaders look under the hood mm-hmm.

Um, more often. Right. Uh, I remember the first time I, I pulled out the feelings wheel, uh, with one of my clients and big Mm, you know, uh, he, he, he was looking at me kind of sideways, and yet within like. Just a couple of minutes. Uh, we were able to get to what was going on internally Absolutely. That he couldn’t articulate.

So even teaching people the emotional self-regulation and the mindset skills to better manage the stress and the pressure of day-to-day life. And again, leaders face more pressure than the average human being because there’s [00:50:00] more on their shoulders. And when we don’t work on that, I think that’s also a big contributor.

Uh, I believe I agree a hundred percent that what that. Most burnout is misalignment. Uh, but also it’s like, I just don’t know how to cope. Yeah. It is effort. It is effort, right?

Trefor: That the beginning of your career, you don’t have experience, you don’t have expertise, right? You may have some education. The, uh, so you get thrown into a new role and you want to do good.

You have one move, which is, which is energy, right? I’ll give 110%. Mm. And all that’s problematic, by the way. It’s so problematic. That’s where, that’s where I’m headed. There’s only a I’m percent the, uh, it gets worse though. The, uh, ’cause we magnify it. Right? What happens is we just keep working our way. We say, I’ll just outwork the problem.

Yeah. I’ll just outwork the problem. Yeah. And they, and so. The thing is you can do it at the beginning. Yeah. Most people don’t have families or complex lives or all kinds of stuff. It’s like them maybe, maybe a partner of some kind and they’re, they’re living it out and they’re both giving 110% or they’re all giving 110%, whatever that looks like.

The [00:51:00] challenge is as you start to increase your range of accountability, you only know one move. Yeah. Right. Which is, which is work it into the ground. The, the, the pro, the problem with it is some tasks like take out the garbage. You don’t need to give that 110%. You need to give that like 2%. You wanna give it to your point about wisdom earlier.

The right measure, right. Of energy and attention. And the thing is, if you’ve learned that. You get ahead in business by giving 110% in everything you do, then as that, as the range of your accountability expands, the, you won’t hand stuff off because the other, other people won’t give it 110% and it just drives you into the ground.

Yeah. And so I. It’s only a matter of time before people who are shooting up in terms of their ability to perform and rise to the organization, hit this threshold and it’s not working, and they’re in panic mode. And that’s where these shifts have to play out if you want to make it. And I think that’s where a lot of the burnout starts.

Catherine: What got you here ain’t gonna get you there. [00:52:00] Exactly. Exactly.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. The you can’t, you can’t out hustle and out muscle everything. No. And uh, what, what is it? We spend most of our, uh, twenties, thirties, and forties, often constructing this false self that we think the world expects of us only to come. Uh.

Only some of the population wake up to the fact that this isn’t working. Others just keep trying. But, uh, some people wake up and say, this isn’t working for me. And if they do have that awakening, they then spend the rest of their lives discovering their true self and bringing that forward more. Right? Uh, but there’s so much that goes into leadership and so important that people need to, uh, uh, uh, begin to learn the skills of looking inside, figuring out what’s going on, uh, and have better.

Tools, like we talked about, how conflict, uh, and dangerous conversations without a format, without a formula or a structure or a model, that can be really hard to do. I think, again, managing your inner world, it’s more possible than people think. Uh, right. But mm-hmm. They haven’t been taught those models and that’s part [00:53:00] of the work.

I think the important work, uh, that we do, uh, guys, lightning round. Final word of advice to leaders that are listening today, whether they be a business owner, uh, or the leader of a department, but they have that leadership mantle. Uh. They wear, uh, final words of wisdom and a lightning round format, starting with trough.

I would say it’s not

Trefor: about how much effort you can give, it’s how effectively you can align things. Mm mm Yeah. Love that.

Steve: Powerful. Powerful. I would say the. Look at your, in, into your life. Where is the anxiety? Mm. Where is that pain? We talked about pain management is time management. Time management is pain management.

Yeah. Uh, write down what those anxious things are, those overwhelm things are, and then circle them and just dig. Dig in deep to those. Yeah. And maybe it’s with a therapist, maybe it’s with a coach or a good friend and, and find someone to talk about that with. You don’t have to do it alone. Yeah. Alone. You don’t have to do it alone.

Yeah.

Rob: Yeah. I, I would say, uh, [00:54:00] stop, uh, separating. Leader, me as a leader, and then me as a person. Hmm. Right. Uh, stop trying to treat those as completely different Right. People or personas. Right, right. Like you are both together as one, and you need to be able to create and understand who am I. Period, who am I?

And then be able to find how that’s expressed in my leadership and in all the other hats that I might be wearing. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Love it.

Catherine: And, and I would say slow down. Mm. You, you, you can’t reflect, you can’t look at your beliefs. You, you, you, you can’t change yourself internally if you don’t slow down and take the time to look at the big picture, just.

Slow down.

Eric: Yeah. Love it. Um, I think I would say, uh, effective leadership begins at home. You can’t lead others effectively if you struggle to lead yourself. Um, and that it’s not weakness [00:55:00] mm-hmm. To ask for help. Mm-hmm. That’s, I, I, it actually that strength. Mm-hmm. And courage. I think it was one of our recent guests, Matthew Rippe Young, uh, who said that vulnerability makes you really, really tough.

I’m gonna watch my language, I’ll let, uh, but he said it differently. But, uh, vulnerability is a, is actually a superpower. Hour. Right Guys, this has been such a great conversation on leadership. I know again, we could talk, uh, all three subjects that we’ve covered in the three episodes we’ve done, uh, over the last several weeks and months.

Uh, we talked about business, we talked about teams. We talked today about leadership. We could talk about. Any of those subjects for hours and hours and hours and hours. It’s what we do every day. Uh, but thank you for and on behalf of our listeners, thank you for your wisdom and sharing that with them, uh, living Richland Nation.

Thanks again for tuning in. We couldn’t do this without you. Uh, we hope you found today’s conversation useful and. If there’s a leader in your network that you know could benefit from hearing this conversation today, please share it with them. Uh, right, I, it might be the, just the boost that they need. Uh, we encourage you to check out our [00:56:00] website, living richly.me.

You’ll find out about the Living Richly challenge that we referred earlier, referred to earlier. Also, the Living Richly Nation, our Facebook group, where you can get tons of support and be aligned with other people on a similar journey of living their best life. And finally, if you’re looking for help in your business with your team, uh, in your leadership, uh, we would love to help you.

We are serving, uh, we’ve served thousands of leaders, hundreds of organizations, uh, and we’d love to be a support to you. Uh, you can find out more about us@rhapsodystrategies.com. Uh, folks, again, thank you so much for your ongoing support. And until next time, get out there and live your best life.

 

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