Rejecting Work-Life Balance Bullsh*t: Finding Sanity Beyond the Scale, Part 2

Rejecting Work-Life Balance Bullsh*t: Finding Sanity Beyond the Scale, Part 2

Wendy Dodds:
Good can sometimes be just as okay as great. And and that allows me to open up more

Eric Deschamps:
space. I think most people’s thinking around work life balance is based on an old model. It’s outdated, no longer relevant. And it was amazing to me just hearing myself talk it out to somebody who I am vulnerable with was all

Rob Dale:
I needed. I felt the release going.

Eric Deschamps:
I’m like,

Rob Dale:
oh, I got this. Yeah.

Kate Beere:
Do I need to be this amp? Can I bring that amp down? Yeah. And the beauty of that is, like, I get to decide how I react to that stress.

Eric Deschamps:
Hi, and welcome back to the Living Rich ly podcast. We’re so glad you tuned back in for part 2. It was an amazing conversation that we started last week on rejecting the whole work life balance bullshit, and finding sanity beyond the scale. And we we got way into this conversation and and realized we have so much more that we wanna discuss that we decided to do a part 2. But I’m curious before we pick up where we left off, what were some of the the the concepts we discussed or the things that we talked about that really resonated for you guys last week?

Rob Dale:
I I know for me, everything I said really resonated with you. Yeah. The best part

Wendy Dodds:
of the show that

Rob Dale:
was all really Everything is everything I said I’ve actually asked Steve

Eric Deschamps:
to just edit out everything else, and it’s just basically a running Yeah.

Rob Dale:
It it it’ll it’ll, it’ll be it’ll go viral. Oh, hey. That’s so bad. Oh, it’s not so

Eric Deschamps:
good stuff.

Rob Dale:
Okay. Yeah.

Kate Beere:
So bad.

Rob Dale:
The notion of one of the things you brought up about, and it wasn’t even original to you. It was Harvard Business Review. Oh, god. No. It’s spicy. The the notion of the notion of of of the river and and and the and the the banks being chaos and rigidity

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
And how you kind of flow in there. It just was a great illustration. It’s one I’ve been thinking about for a while, since you’ve shared it. I was kind of contemplating that. That’s yeah. Whole week I’ve been thinking about this, is is this idea of, being okay with chaos and rigidity, having influence into how we stay

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. The course. Yeah. Of course, that coming from Dan Siegel’s book, Mindsight. Yeah. What a great and, I love how he uses the word flow even when we talk about finding a flow to our lives. That the word flow standing for flexibility, love, openness, and, wholeheartedness. And I thought, what a great way to check-in with yourself.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
I love that. I think for me, what stood out was just when we talked about the evolution of it all. Right? If you think about where it started to where we are today, and then, like, just exploring how, you know, what does work life blend harmony look like today? We talked about 4 day work weeks. We talked about flexible schedules, being able to, you know, go go off and do your dentist appointment and don’t tell me. I don’t wanna know. So just exploring that whole evolution for me and knowing that it’s gonna

Rob Dale:
continue to evolve,

Wendy Dodds:
that, for

Rob Dale:
me Yeah.

Kate Beere:
Big takeaway. And I think that so good. Oh, sorry. I think the

Wendy Dodds:
continued, say elevation. Evolution.

Eric Deschamps:
Elevation something.

Wendy Dodds:
The evolution of how people still have it in their heads that balance means 5050. Yeah. Right. And it’s not. Yeah. And it’s really about embracing how whether that’s personal, you know, your personal life, your your work life, that it doesn’t always have to be 5050 and to be able to design and and allow yourself to balance out that scale when it makes sense.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. I I think for me, just in the, in the conversation and even the prep for these conversations, like, there’s so many things that we take for granted until you have to speak to them and you go, I might wanna look into this a little bit more and to find out that our current, work arrangement, like that 5 day, 40 hour work week, that that’s a concept that’s over a century old.

Wendy Dodds:
It’s wild.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. And and COVID came along, said, hold my beer. I’m gonna I’m gonna throw a big monkey’s ranch into this. I mean, the workforce had been evolving already before then, but now there’s this fight to try to bring it back to the way things were. And I think a lot of folks, to your point, Wendy, when we talk about, like, this balance, I think most people’s thinking around work life balance is based on an old model. It’s outdated, no longer relevant, no longer makes any sense. And that’s why on the show, in these conversations, we’re not saying don’t don’t strive for harmony, don’t strive for better integration. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
But the whole notion of balance, I think, is one that’s outdated. Right? So we started, getting into some questions, a series of questions that we had created to kinda, for people to evaluate kinda how how harmonized is my life, like, how integrated is my life. And the first question we covered, of course, was what does success mean to you? And that’s on episode 1. If you’re tuning in to to this one so no. Not not episode 1, but part 1 of this, this 2 part series. If you’re tuning in, this is part 2. So hit pause, go back, watch part 1, then come back, and and this will make sense.

Rob Dale:
They can do that?

Eric Deschamps:
They can do that. A technology called the interweb.

Rob Dale:
Oh, yes. Yes. They have

Eric Deschamps:
pause buttons and everything. It’s amazing. It’s amazing. It’s so good that when I’m listening to shows, I can there’s also a fast forward button. Yeah. So whenever you come on, I just Wow.

Wendy Dodds:
Can we fast can you

Rob Dale:
just Wait. Can we

Wendy Dodds:
get a fast

Rob Dale:
forward? Can we

Eric Deschamps:
do it in real time? Is it working real time? Or can I I always wanted a mute button? That would be great too. It would be. I I

Wendy Dodds:
That’s right. It really would be.

Rob Dale:
You’re right. Yeah. It really it really would. Oh. I’ll work

Eric Deschamps:
for those who are listening. I’m feeling it. No. I’m not feeling it. But let’s let’s let’s move on. Alright? Let’s fast let’s fast forward before I get muted. The second in our list of questions I think that’s worth considering when when someone is saying, like, how much harmony is there in my life, currently, is, one, understanding what are the current priorities in your life because, I can those change over time depending on the season that we’re in. And how well do you feel you’re allocating time and energy to those priorities? So I’m gonna put that question to all to all 4 of us.

Eric Deschamps:
What are your priorities now, and how well do you feel you’re in harmony in terms of the allocation of time and energy?

Kate Beere:
Yeah. So what what was so interesting for me is when I answered this question, I went to people because all I heard was priority. So I’m like, my priority in my life are the people in my life, the relationships, my kids, Eric, my family. That’s where I went to and that you you run

Eric Deschamps:
the line. I made the list. I was nervous there.

Kate Beere:
But that’s where I went to, and I was like, oh, like, how do I find it hard sometimes just to prioritize within that priority. Right? And then as I started to think about it, I was like, okay. But hold up. Work is a priority. Right? Like, work takes up the bulk of my week. And it was really interesting for me when I was answering it because I’m like, oh, in my mind, I’m trying to prioritize how I spend time with the people I love and wanna and that’s where I wanna focus, and that’s my priority is figuring out the time. Work, I seem to figure out. But it was just an interesting dynamic for me to be, like, work what didn’t even enter my mind when I first answered it.

Rob Dale:
I like the how you answered that or what you said there because, I don’t like the question.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I don’t like

Rob Dale:
the question only from the standpoint of, talking about our priority and then equating it to time, like, you know, time

Eric Deschamps:
and energy.

Kate Beere:
Time and energy. Wow. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Because in the same way, the things that are a priority may not be the things that I’m spending the most amount of time Yeah. Yeah. It’s how I’m showing up. And so when I

Kate Beere:
answer the question, I

Rob Dale:
answer the question with

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
I’ve got one priority, whether it’s work, play, you know, personal life, whatever it is, and that is to show up authentic Mhmm. To show up genuinely as myself Yeah. In every environment. So whether that’s in my relationship with Wendy, whether it’s the relationship with with our kids, with the with the girls, or with with, what, with the all the family kind of thing, and with friends, and at work with clients, in all of those contexts. Am I showing up authentically? Then that to me is now I’m I’m good. I’ve I’ve got the work life balance when I’m doing that.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I remember hearing a speaker years ago say and to the time allocation question, because I think we mentioned I mentioned on the show last week that not all hours are creating people.

Rob Dale:
Not all

Eric Deschamps:
weeks are creating people. So it’s not about the amount of time we give to things, but the quality of time energy we give to things. So I may have to give more time in terms of numerical value on the work front 1 week, but I’m spending quality time with you. It’s not it doesn’t it doesn’t it doesn’t measure up the same from that perspective. But I I do remember a guy years ago saying, you know, show me your calendar and show me your checkbook. So you can go back to how far back this goes because who has a checkbook anymore? But Show me your in other words, show me your calendar, what you give your time and energy to, what you pencil in, and what you spend your money on, and I’ll tell you what your priorities are.

Rob Dale:
Right?

Eric Deschamps:
So I think it is a good question in terms of just checking in to say, hey. If this really matters to me, am I carving out the time for me?

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I know for me, especially over the last, several years, I’m still learning to be flexible and give myself the opportunity to reassess Mhmm. My priorities or where my time and energy is going.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
So nurturing a a deep relationship with Rob. Yeah. Jesus.

Eric Deschamps:
I I paid her $20 to say that because I knew how bad you would feel if she didn’t. Thanks, Wendy.

Wendy Dodds:
Good job. For 50.

Rob Dale:
Oh.

Wendy Dodds:
But we She takes it back.

Rob Dale:
Less quality time. Less quality time, Rob. I’m like, $20 quality time. $30 less,

Wendy Dodds:
at least. But nurturing that relationship, we’re we just got married, and we’ve talked about couple stuff on here before. It’s very easy to fall into the pattern of doing all of the other shit and all of the other things Yeah. Without being intentional about time for ourselves or time. So really focusing on nurturing that that deep relationship as well as with our kids. We have 5 kids between all of us. And so really making sure that we’re showing up at their stage in life and and and making that a priority, but also taking exceptional care of myself, which I haven’t always done in the past. Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
So my physical and my mental health. Yeah. And doing a better job at saying no, setting boundaries. Yeah. For me, my priority might not be going to do that thing that I said yes to. Right. My priority might be, I’m going to sleep tonight because Yeah. I need to rest.

Wendy Dodds:
Right.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. I think I think for me, currently, if I look at this season of my life, I’d have to say relationships in the number one spot. So, like you, like, you, my kids, my friends, like, that that is really important. My second one right now, it’s interesting. I came through a period of, I would have said, even answered this maybe a year and a half ago very differently. I would have put personal growth, as as the the next one.

Eric Deschamps:
But I I’m in a season right now of professional growth. So after a season of personal growth, there’s all kinds of things opening up for me on the professional side that’s really cool. So that’s another priority for me right now. And, also growing the business. I mean, entrepreneur at heart, and there’s some exciting things going on. And so that’s a that’s a priority. And so, again, I feel I’m in harmony with those, with those priorities. But I think the the cool part about this question is to say that we might answer this question very differently 6 months from now.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. I agree.

Eric Deschamps:
And this is where I think that again, I come back to this hard, fast, rigid approach to work, life balance. It becomes irrelevant very, very quickly because it doesn’t allow for life to really shift. And then we set up these very strong the next place I wanna go to is boundaries, but we set up these strong boundaries Yeah. And those boundaries can become inflexible and not really allow for our lives evolving and changing and shifting. And now we feel out of sync, not with ourselves, but with these rigid boundaries that we set up. And now on top now we’re feeling we’re judging ourselves and feeling self critical that we’ve dropped the ball on this boundary that actually may or may not actually be serving our current set of priorities. But, like, let’s talk about boundaries. What does that look like for you in terms of established boundaries that you may or may not have? And, and how effective are they in helping you maintain that work life integration?

Kate Beere:
Yeah. I mean, I’m I’m very good at shutting off work when I decide to shut off work.

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm.

Kate Beere:
So if I close my laptop, I close my laptop. I don’t have notifications on my phone. I’m not that’s that if I think of, like, my 9 to 5 bold lib, I can shut that down, and I’m I’m good. With my, I would say, passion projects, like, get to mindset and even living richly, that for me is a harder one because I love it.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right.

Kate Beere:
And I love bold lip too, but that’s that takes up, what, like, 4 days of my week. Yeah. So when I get time to get into the my passions, I that for me can can suck me in, and that’s when I have a harder time, I think, with the boundary. And then that’s where I go to, you know, the must, the coulds, the shouldn’ts. Like, you shouldn’t be working right now. Like, that language creeps in really, really quickly.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Kate Beere:
So I think my boundary in some areas is strong, and in in others, not as strong. And a work in progress.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Well, I

Eric Deschamps:
think that’s true. But isn’t it interesting again, like, when, we’re in some areas, we find it easy. Other areas, we find hard.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
But the traditional approach to work life balance would say, well, it’s off work hours and you’re working on this passion project. You’re out of balance.

Rob Dale:
And

Eric Deschamps:
yet if you’re doing something you love, something that and as long as, of course, you’re not neglecting your kids, you’re not neglecting your but, we we’ve we’ve got an outdated, I think, sense of what that means. And this is why work life integration, working on a passion project during off hours when that’s the only time you can do it

Wendy Dodds:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
And yet you can still have boundaries around that and and whatever the case may be. But it’s just interesting how we go to judgment pretty fast

Wendy Dodds:
Pretty quickly.

Eric Deschamps:
On that stuff.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. But when I think about passion, like, my dad is in his mid seventies, and he just retired from teaching because that was a pa part time, obviously, but that was a passion for him, speaking and coaching and and whatnot. And he I remember having a conversation with him once where he was like, but this is what I love to do. It’s whether you call it a hobby or a passion, it doesn’t feel like work Yeah. Except when he had all of the exams to mark. Yeah. But regardless.

Rob Dale:
But but

Wendy Dodds:
that was and that’s why he continued doing it for as long as he did. I know for me, I I tend to evaluate what I need and when I need it because that can be different. Right. I don’t I don’t work a typical 8 to 5. I run a a fitness studio. And so, you know, it’s open from 5 in the morning until 8:30 at night. And so while I have my core set of hours, it is still a live business where things happen and nuances and and, you know, I’m learning to create better boundaries around that and adjust my schedule when I need to, but I try to be very intentional, or I’m learning to get better about being intentional at what’s important to me. So same thing, do not disturb notifications.

Wendy Dodds:
I don’t wear my watch on Sundays, you know, those types of things where I will be purposefully intentful on what I’m doing, leaving my phone up in the bedroom. And if I’m downstairs and we’re watching TV, so I’m not getting distracted

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Is is what I try to do.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I for me, it’s the the boundary is really a question, and that is, what or who needs my attention right now? And so sometimes that means 8 o’clock tonight. 8 o’clock tonight, I will be doing now Passion Project, but I’ll be editing reels for Living Richly. Yeah. Because they need to be done and tonight is when that’s what needs my attention. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Another time, it could be something completely different. It could be I need my attention.

Eric Deschamps:
Whoever came up with that on Finding Nemo, that seagulls Yeah. They’re actually saying mine mine mine. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
It’s all you can do. Oh my god. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Every time I hear the bits, it’s all I

Rob Dale:
can Exactly. Sorry.

Eric Deschamps:
You were saying something somewhat important.

Rob Dale:
Incredibly, brilliantly important. And and but it is around and it takes away the notion of, oh, it’s 6 o’clock, 6 PM. If I’m focused on work, I’m now out of balance. Right.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
No. What needs my attention right now? Now if there is if something is always the one thing that needs your attention, that’s a different conversation. Now you need to evaluate why. Yeah. That’s that that is the case. But I I it’s that’s the question that helps me set the boundaries.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. And and then let’s approach it from this lens. Like, again, with with an integrated approach to work, and we we explored this last week where, again, to your point, you don’t have a traditional 9 to 5. A lot of folks now, especially with remote hybrid work, they might take the afternoon to go to their kids’ school recital and then, you know, work between 7 and 9:9:9. And that’s the beauty of this. Again, there is great flexibility in that. There’s also great flexibility in understanding what are your best working hours. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Right? Some for me, often still is early morning. I I do my best work. Right? So before most folks are even awake, I’ve usually done an hour or 2 of of work and gets me ahead of my day. And then if I wanna knock off early, I can. So this flexibility is great. So this next question’s a bit weird because it’s almost like, how often do you find yourself, regardless of what your arrangement looks like, how often do you find yourself thinking about work during leisure hours when you’re off work?

Rob Dale:
That.

Wendy Dodds:
So I’m a dreamer and a fantasizer. Oh. That’s right.

Eric Deschamps:
Stop that kinda show.

Wendy Dodds:
You won’t be doing reels tonight at

Rob Dale:
6 o’clock,

Kate Beere:
or you’ll be doing a different You’re gonna I have to get

Rob Dale:
a really more

Eric Deschamps:
on work

Rob Dale:
on that one. Yeah. Got it.

Wendy Dodds:
I think about work all the time, but I don’t see it as work. And this is kinda where I brought the example of my dad because, you know, I have that entrepreneurial spirit and bone in my body where I’m always thinking about how can I impact more? How can I serve more? What can I do more? And it’s just those creative juices. I because I see it as service, and I see it as value, and that’s just something that I’m so passionate about. But going back to what I said, I’ve had to be very intentional and also proactive with, time and energy and learning how to protect my boundaries and also getting better, thanks to my therapist, Sari, at

Eric Deschamps:
Thanks, Sherry.

Wendy Dodds:
Thanks, Sherry. Learning to talk about what’s festering in my mind versus completely shutting out. So that might mean talking to Rob about here’s what’s going on my mind. Just help me kinda talk me off the ledge or help me kind of feel a little more balanced. And usually, that helps, but I’m learning to get better at that instead of trying to do it all on me.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. I think for me, it’s it’s yeah. Again, all the time, we will go for walks, and I might be talking, to Wendy about, you know, work or, you know, dealing with stuff at Rhapsody, or we’re gonna have to be talking about living richly or talking with the real life. We’re we’re always having conversations around that. It it’s can I where I the checkpoint for me is can I, again, showing up authentically? So when I am if if we’re just together and we’re spending time together, am I truly focused in on being present with Wendy in that moment, or am I thinking about work and distracted from being present in that moment? Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Right?

Kate Beere:
Yeah. I think I kinda have a bit of both of what, like, both of what you said. It’s it’s, you know, when you’re thinking about something that you’re passionate about, then that’s dreaming and ideating. And for me, that’s I that’s a positive. That’s something that’s fun. I love that. It’s when the to do list run through my head nonstop that I I Right. That’s where I get stuck, and I have dreams, frantic dreams, about my to do list that I’m not getting to.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right.

Kate Beere:
I’m working on that one. Yeah. But for me, that’s why that it’s like that. If I can’t get it out of my brain and onto paper, like, how many times do I have to write a list? I just gotta write it all down. I gotta get it out for me. I think that’s what keeps me that I would say that’s the stressor, the anxiety point that maybe keeps me that I would like to continue to work on. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Absolutely. Well and you and I, I mean, both again have that creative, it shows up differently for for both of us, but are both very creative. We We’re entrepreneurs. We have amazing business conversations. But there’s also many times where we say, hey. We’re not talking about work tonight. We’re gonna talk even even though we’re passionate, we’re gonna focus in on us. We’re gonna focus in on, other stuff because we do can get, carried away with it.

Eric Deschamps:
But, I know the creativity, and and I think there’s lots of, I think, business people, entrepreneurs, creative people who could relate to this. Creativity does not respect the 9 to 5 framework. Right. Creativity happens when it happens. And so I go through you know this. I go through creative seasons where it’s there and it’s flowing, and I’m just gonna respect it. And I’m I’m much better with managing that than I used to be. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
But again, the the, the one of my clients, he says it’s about asking if things are the right size right now. Is this the right size? Is this too big?

Wendy Dodds:
I love that.

Eric Deschamps:
Is this too small? And if something’s too small, then I need to look at how can I, how can I upsize that? Right? Is this too big, or how do I downsize that a little bit right now? But asking yourself the con the question regularly helps you kinda regulate. But let’s face this. For those of us that are business owners and leaders and lead organizations, have organizations, I’ve I often use this language. We’ve used it at Rhapsody. I use it with clients all the time that business is a vehicle to help you get what you wanna want out of life. Right?

Kate Beere:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
Some of us are very fortunate. We love to drive. We’ve got a great vehicle, and we actually enjoy driving it. Right? Well, if that’s the case, then it’s it’s again making space, making room for that while making sure that the other aspects of your life are not being neglected. Again, integration, not balance. Right? Yeah. Let’s look at another question. What are some of the activities that you engage in, to fill your tank back up after you’ve had a particular difficult week or challenging week? And how often do you kinda prioritize? How do how does those activities show up, in your in your day to day?

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Charcuterie boards. Yeah. Cheese.

Eric Deschamps:
Cheese. Cheese board. Cheese board, and that’s, like, daily.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. I I was I was having a a week. Was it last week or the week before? And you came home with a cheese platter and a bottle of wine. And, like, we laugh about it, but that’s what I needed, right, at that time. I think you had maybe one bite. I ate the rest

Rob Dale:
of it.

Wendy Dodds:
But regardless, it doesn’t matter.

Eric Deschamps:
Oh, jeez.

Wendy Dodds:
But yeah. So reading, talking, you know, we we we have before bed chats where the lights are, you know, dimmed and what or we’re about to go to sleep, but we share about, you know, what were our favorite parts of the day. I guarantee tonight will be like, what was your favorite episode? Yeah. And and just having that connection piece. Fitness for me is is massive. Yeah. Music is massive, nature, and also things like cleaning out social media. Right.

Wendy Dodds:
I get a lot of gratification out of cleaning my

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I noticed that I’m not friends on Facebook anymore. I was gonna ask you about that.

Wendy Dodds:
I blocked you.

Rob Dale:
I’m hurt.

Eric Deschamps:
I’m a little hurt.

Wendy Dodds:
No. But just allowing that new energy to come in. If I find that there’s other things that just aren’t if I find I’m falling into, like, that comparison game or I just feel like you know that feeling when you’re looking at stuff and you’re like, fuck’s sake. So I’m like, okay. That’s a sign that I don’t need to follow you anymore and, you know, just kinda allowing that new energy to come in.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Absolutely. Love that.

Rob Dale:
I it’s I love the question, and I think that we all have those activities, obviously, very much similar activities. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
I think we all water.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. We we really do. Certainly, when I’m thinking of this, this is where I’ll go back to, shameless plug, the 15 day life vision challenge is so critical for this very thing because what that gives you is it gives you a sense of what are the things that energize you Yeah. And what are the things that steal your energy.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
And if you can go through the process of figuring that stuff out, you’ll create rituals rather than saying, you know, and we see this all the time. Somebody give me some ideas on on things I can do to energize myself. Well, or you can figure out for yourself by using a tool like the the 15 day challenge to be able to understand truly who you are and how do you energize yourself.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. And we even talked last week about avoid the whole notion of I have to find a hobby.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? Because that language is so problematic. It’s it’s like you’re making a commitment to something before you even know if you love it. If you’re unsure about what you, enjoy, well, go back to your past. Think about things you’ve done before, maybe when you’re younger that you really enjoyed. There’s there’s some hints there. There’s, just trying different things without committing to them. Like, try it. Give it a fair shake, like, 2 or 3 times perhaps, because everything you do that’s new may feel a little uncomfortable at first.

Eric Deschamps:
But it’s it’s just about finding that rhythm where I am filling my tank regularly with something outside of work because I I do know that I live most of my life very strong on the purpose side. I think you and I could could relate to that. Purpose was always big for us, and that was loaded and and and filled with all this religious stuff that was unhealthy. But purpose was my number one thing, but I wasn’t filling my cup, with things that outside of that. And so, you know, 3 burnouts later, I I started to kinda wise up and say this isn’t working. I need to make sure that I’m building my life, not just following my purpose.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. And I think filling your cup in different places is so important. Like, it’s easy to get into a rut of filling your cup in the same spot all the time, and I think it’s so good to try new things. Get you know, like, we’re heading off. Well, when when this airs, it’ll be done, but we’re going off to Bluesfest tonight. And I like, every year it comes, and we’re so excited. And then where it’s like, oh

Wendy Dodds:
my god. We gotta get there.

Kate Beere:
And it’s like but it’s like you get there, and then you’re alive Yeah. For, like, a week, and it’s amazing. And so that’s different. And then going to the cottage or seeing friends or mixing it up, I think, sometimes and just filling your cup and and getting filling your cup with different people too is so so amazing.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Changing your environment, changing the scenery, changing the Yeah. Because it’d be so easy after, like, a full day of recording to just say, oh, we’re just gonna stay home and do what we’ve done Yes. A a a lot, which is maybe put on a movie and whatever, and that would be fine. But changing your environment into something new can be so invigorating.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. I

Eric Deschamps:
agree. And, what about some recent have you guys experienced some recent situations where work, kinda was encroaching too much in on the rest of your life and was creating some negative, perhaps out fallout either in your relationships or in your life in general?

Rob Dale:
When you ask it that way, I don’t know if work encroaches on it. I choose to. If I’m so I’m I’m dealing with some performance metrics that I that I’m not hitting, that I wanna hit. And, so I put on myself this level of stress and anxiety that then begins to flow into I feel it in my my my shoulders, everything. You know, your body just, handles that stress the way it all of us do. Right? We’re not in healthy ways. You can lose sleep. You can kind of you you fall into those old scripts.

Rob Dale:
And Yeah. And and so I think when when I’m not the way work encroaches into my personal life is when I’m not achieving or doing what I think I should be doing, then all of a sudden, it just it impacts everything.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right. The the mind cycle goes yeah.

Rob Dale:
The mind

Eric Deschamps:
cycle. For

Rob Dale:
sure. Right?

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. I know for me, my frustration creeps in a lot when the people that I work with don’t have the same level of care, commitment, or passion that I do. Right. And I’ve really had to learn to be okay with not everything is gonna be a 150%. Right. I’ve scaled back the perfectionism piece, but I still struggle with the passion piece and the care piece. Like, why can’t people just, like, care as much as I do? And then I get frustrated because I’m like, could you care too fucking much? Right?

Rob Dale:
Right. And

Wendy Dodds:
so Yeah. So Yeah. But then I get overwhelmed. And when I get overwhelmed, I cry. I also shut down and I don’t talk and I become, like, sullen and quiet. And so, I’m I’m learning to get better at this, but I’m also learning to scale back on the things that maybe they don’t need to be done. Right. Like Right.

Wendy Dodds:
The you know, it’s nice if it was done, but nobody’s gonna give a shit if it’s done or not. Yeah. And and that’s okay. Yeah. And maybe I’m gonna put my energy somewhere else.

Eric Deschamps:
I love that. Maybe I I tell my leaders all the time. I said there’s 2 things that only you I and I’m saying this. I I say it to myself. I say it to them. It’s it’s something only you can manage, and that’s your energy, where it goes, and your expectations. Right? And oftentimes, your energy is going to misplaced expectations, right, where we set the bar just so high Nah. That we we so want to do a good job or we so wanna help others or and, actually, that extra 20% that we’re going makes if if we didn’t do it, the vast majority of people wouldn’t even notice.

Eric Deschamps:
So you ask yourself, who are you doing it for

Wendy Dodds:
Yep.

Eric Deschamps:
And what’s the price of that?

Kate Beere:
Yeah. I think for me, it’s like, I think it was last week. I think it was last week. Last week of school is always a zoo. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
And it’s

Kate Beere:
and I’m like, work has just been just extremely busy for us, and we’ve had some partners in and out. And so just the workload has been a lot heavier. And then when workload is heavier and personal life is heavier, that’s for me when I have a really difficult time, and that’s where I feel like I’m getting pulled in a 1,000 different directions. And I I’m not I feel like I’m not doing anything well. And when I get to that space is when I’m like, I’m done. Like, my cup is full. Like, Eric was over. And we were in the kitchen, and I just looked around.

Kate Beere:
I looked at him, and I was I just bawled. And I I’m not someone who typically does that. I’m doing it more and more because I’m learning to let it just be like he’s like, what’s wrong? I’m like, I’m super overwhelmed. Like, I’m just I’m completely overwhelmed, and it just flows all the way through and out. And it’s almost like, oh. Yeah. Okay. I’m overwhelmed.

Kate Beere:
Interesting. Instead of, like, just keeping it all in.

Rob Dale:
I love that you’re letting that flow Yeah. So much. It’s that notion

Eric Deschamps:
of, again, that we come back to that, it’s it’s emotion. The word motion’s in there. And when we feel like we need to somehow I don’t know. We feel this, need to be strong

Rob Dale:
or be tough. Yeah. And what

Eric Deschamps:
we do is all that negative energy actually gets trapped

Kate Beere:
Exactly.

Eric Deschamps:
Inside of us and actually makes things, far worse. For me, over the last year and a half, I would say the business has gotten really big. I talk about size. It’s gotten a lot bigger and and that’s both by choice and some of it not by choice. But, it’s both very exhilarating but has been very, very demanding, and so I’m still trying to right size that. Even, so, you know, Kate and I don’t live together, but we’ve been integrating our lives a lot more, which is amazing and absolutely love it. But it means now trying to manage 2 households with a very like, the back and forth. So learning to kinda what is my what is my routine now look like because it’s a bit different with the the back and forth.

Eric Deschamps:
And and so I’m aware that work’s too big, right now, and I’m and my self care is too small. And I’m in the process of, process of adjusting adjusting that, right, and and finding a better, a better flow. We talked a lot about flexible work schedules and how the workplace has really, really evolved and how there’s a real battle lines being drawn in the in the workplace right now between the fight for how it used to be to the fight to where it’s, like, where it’s going. But how flexible is, your sort of work environment, work schedule? And does that flexibility kinda serve you well right now?

Kate Beere:
Yeah. I mean, for me, I feel very fortunate, but I’m I’m I take ownership of carving out a 4 day work week, which is what I committed to when I started before Boldlup moved that way.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. That was you negotiated.

Kate Beere:
That I negotiated that so I could have one day a week where I could focus on on get your mindset and and growing that, and and they fully are backing that and super supportive of that.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. They even they even, hosted a a webinar where they right through, for Get 2 Minds. It was incredible, support that they’ve

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
Which I’m not used to. I’m so used to a corporate who’s like, no. You can’t have this on

Eric Deschamps:
our side. Right? So Yeah. Right?

Kate Beere:
So it’s one so I feel very grateful. We have, we’re all very respectful of each other. You have an appointment. You go. We all will cover for each other if someone has something, a family emergency, whatever that looks like. Today, I just feel very grateful. I haven’t ever had this.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Kate Beere:
And to have it now, it feels like such a gift, because I see the impact that it has on my kids. I see the impact it has on my overall stress level and how I show up for my family, how I show up for my friends, how I show up with you. It’s just it diminishes my stress level to not feel Yeah. Like I’m trapped in this box. Yes. I love that.

Rob Dale:
And I

Wendy Dodds:
love that you asked for

Eric Deschamps:
it Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Which I think a lot of people are afraid of. I think that’s a great message for people that, you know, if you don’t ask, they’re not just gonna give it to you. I mean, maybe some places will, but the fact that you had the courage to ask, I just I think it’s amazing.

Eric Deschamps:
I think it’s, like, one of the greatest bargaining chips now.

Rob Dale:
Like Totally.

Eric Deschamps:
And some of my leaders, I hope they’re not listening to this part, but it’s a new competitive advantage. One of the most competitive advantages is for hiring and creating a great culture is creating a flexible Yeah. Hybrid type workspace where work from home is a lot easier to do. It opens up your hiring pool from your local environment to you can literally hire from anywhere. I mean, there’s all kinds of business benefits to it. There’s challenges to doing it as well. But I think companies that offer it versus companies that don’t, the ones that don’t are gonna find themselves increasingly out of pace and hard to compete because I think in many cases, people will take a lower paying job with flexibility than a higher paying job with less flexibility. Right?

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. I know for me, for my work schedule, it depends on what I’m doing. Mhmm. I run a very busy studio, and member experience is just as important, if not more important than the actual fitness experience. That’s just who I am as a person. I want everyone to feel seen, heard, and impacted personally. It’s such a high expectation that I have. Part of the I I guess you could say that’s part of a double edged sword because that’s kinda where that care and compassion piece comment comes in where I just want people to feel the same as I do on delivering such a phenomenal experience.

Wendy Dodds:
So my sometimes I have control over that schedule, sometimes I don’t. If there’s if there’s an issue and and it’s happened before and I’ve gotta go in, and I’m so grateful that Rob understands how much I love work and is and is able to support me with that as well. But when I’m building out the real life, I have control over that schedule, and so I’m able to build that out how I want. And I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not desperate to land a client. If that means sacrificing time that I don’t wanna give up or time with us

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
I’m okay with that.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Right. Right.

Rob Dale:
That’s fantastic. Yeah. Which is so good. I Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
You and I are are very similar just because of our backgrounds.

Rob Dale:
You know, You and I are are very similar just because of our backgrounds. You know, I I I’m almost ashamed to admit I’ve never had a 9 to 5 job. Mhmm. Right? Like, I’ve I’ve always It’s

Eric Deschamps:
because no one would hire you.

Rob Dale:
Oh, they’d all hire me. They’d all hire me.

Wendy Dodds:
I’d hire

Rob Dale:
Yeah. You know. But but I’m just a gigolo.

Eric Deschamps:
Life goes on without me. Wow.

Rob Dale:
You hired me.

Eric Deschamps:
I did

Rob Dale:
hire you. There you go.

Eric Deschamps:
There you go. I know.

Rob Dale:
No. But I you know, like, so literally since I from the age of 19, I have had somewhat control over my schedule.

Eric Deschamps:
And You’d make a terrible employee.

Rob Dale:
And so I would make yeah. We both would make terrible employees if I had

Eric Deschamps:
to go

Rob Dale:
into a job 9 to 5, Monday to Friday. Oh. I don’t know what I would do. And and so, the so I’m very blessed, very fortunate to have, to to that’s been my experience to the point that today I know sometimes when people, first shift into a job where they have more flexibility, they’re not they don’t know how to balance that.

Kate Beere:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Right? And and, and I I think I’m pretty good at balancing it because it’s all I’ve known. Now I will say is back when I was working for God, the the balance wasn’t there because it was you were on all the time. Right? I mean, you were there Sundays, and most ministers would take Mondays off. Well, Monday, you’re exhausted from a busy Sunday, so you’d, you know, sleep all day. You’d be brain dead. You wouldn’t wanna have a conversation.

Eric Deschamps:
On Monday, family was it. And your kids were And your kids

Rob Dale:
are at school. At work. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So you, like, you weren’t seeing them anyway. Yeah. And and and it was always, oh, the church needs something.

Rob Dale:
Sorry, but we gotta sacrifice for God. Right? So so I think it was really unhealthy, the having the the ability to you know, I would never say no because you just don’t say no in that world. Whereas today, I’m very comfortable saying no. I’ve had you know, even if a client, where can you do this? It’s gonna be a Saturday. Yeah. No. Yeah. No.

Rob Dale:
Well, we and 99% of the time, when a client pushes on a time and I give them a I say, no. I can’t do it. I’ll do this time, They adjust.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Right? Exactly. But people so I’ve learned that as I can say no and not it’s not gonna sacrifice or cost me something. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Let’s talk about stress for a little bit. We talked about recharging, but dealing with stress is a little different. There’s one well, it’s one thing to fill your cup up right after Mhmm. But it’s what what are the stress management techniques that you use? And because and and, initially, the question said, like, stress from work. But I’m like, stress shows up not just at work. It shows up in life and work. But what are your most effective, like, stress management techniques?

Rob Dale:
My newest technique, I’ve had other techniques, meditation or or not meditation, but reflection, those kind of things. My newest technique, that I’ve really only leaned into in the last, well, since I’ve, met Wendy, and that is talking it out. Mhmm. One of the things and, you know, I did this not, that long ago where I was sharing, you know, stress that I had, and I just openly just said, hey. I’m gonna just share with you what’s going on in my head and we’re like this. And it wasn’t. I was looking for answers. Mhmm.

Rob Dale:
I wasn’t looking for and it was amazing to me just hearing myself talk it out to somebody who I am vulnerable with was all I needed. I felt the release go.

Eric Deschamps:
And I’m

Rob Dale:
like, oh, I got this. Yeah. I was okay with it after I and and I’ve been okay with it since I talked it out. So that’s a new one for me is having a person in my life that I feel comfortable with that kind of vulnerability.

Eric Deschamps:
But that’s that’s another way. I mean, you talked about recently that moment where you felt overwhelmed in the kitchen. I remember that. And, but you just let it move through you. Another way of letting things move through you, like stress or whatever else, is to talk it out with someone who’s not gonna judge you, someone who’s not gonna try to fix it or give you all this advice. And, I I try to remind myself all the time because as a guy, I’m a fixer.

Rob Dale:
Yes. And most

Eric Deschamps:
of the time, that’s not what people need. No. They just need a a listening ear and a place to kinda let that just let that energy flow through them and and and hear you.

Kate Beere:
And let it go through.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Just to go with that point, I I just saw a funny story with a client that I was with this week and his, his wife is the the real issues with her job and everything like this. And so she’s sharing this with him, and he’s telling me this because he’s sharing and he’s, you know, sharing some real personal things. So he’s sharing this story, and he’s telling, you know, how he’s trying to fix it and work it through and everything like this. And I said to him, I said, Eric, I’m gonna make a can I suggest something to you? When you go home tonight, rather than tell your wife what she should do, I said, here’s what you here’s what I’m gonna encourage her. I said, go home and just say to her, hey, honey. I know that you are more than capable of handling this. How do I best serve you?

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. What do you need?

Rob Dale:
And he writes

Eric Deschamps:
How can I help you?

Rob Dale:
He writes that down. And as we’re wrapping up the call, I I always say, hey. Was it was today’s call helpful? Was this value? And he goes, Rob, he said, I think you saved me about 3 weeks of grief.

Eric Deschamps:
I I might get to sleep in the

Rob Dale:
bedroom tonight. Yeah. In a month. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Kate Beere:
But it’s

Rob Dale:
to the to your point, we’re fixers

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
And sometimes we just need to be listeners.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. One of the game changers for me in terms of dealing with stress has been, it’s not what I think about work. It’s what I think about what I think about work. Like, it’s it’s how I perceive it and how I Mhmm. And and I think the biggest game changer I’ve just come through a season. The the I’m very busy at work, like, lots of client work, lots of conferences, lots of all day stuff, and just a very, very heavy client load in terms of also, launching the 15 day life challenge and everything else. There’s just been a lot.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? And, there’s been weeks where I’m looking ahead at my schedule and I’m like, oh. And I remember I used to catastrophize that. I’m like, oh, it’s gonna be so hard. And and now what I tell myself, I remind myself, I said, hey, Eric. It’s okay. Like, you’ve had weeks like this before. You’ve had weeks that have more in your calendar than this before. And you not you not only survived them, you thrived right through them, and you did just fine.

Eric Deschamps:
This is just another one of those. Yeah. So I think what we tell ourselves Mhmm. About what we’re going through, if we go right back to Albert Ellis, and we’re gonna be dedicating an entire episode to some of the mindset stuff that we teach all of our clients that’s been so meaningful for us, is it’s not the events of life that actually cause most of our misery, or cause our suffering. It’s not what shows up on our doorstep that causes that. It’s what we believe about that. It’s what we make that mean

Wendy Dodds:
Absolutely.

Eric Deschamps:
That determines the level of suffering. It can be hard, but we end up suffering because we choose to perceive it in a way that’s much worse Yeah. Than it really is.

Kate Beere:
A 100%.

Rob Dale:
I am so grateful for, and you were the one that introduced me to this phrase. I don’t know if it’s original with you or but Of

Eric Deschamps:
course it is.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Change I take credit for it. Changing the language of it is what it is to it is what you make it to. Mhmm. Right? And and I and I say original to me. No. So but I and I say that I I will say that to clients. I say that to my kids.

Rob Dale:
I say it to myself Mhmm. All the time is that phrase, and I I’ve just so embraced that one because there’s so much power to it.

Eric Deschamps:
There’s a measure of it. I’ve had clients push back on me on that one. They said, but there’s a measure of it is what it is where you’re just accepting that this is what happened is happening as opposed to resisting it. So that part of it

Rob Dale:
But that’s the what you’re making it.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. But, like, it it also can lead to victim, kind of a victim position of it is what it is. I’m almost powerless to do anything

Wendy Dodds:
about Well.

Eric Deschamps:
Well. Exactly. You know, like, we we are rarely, as powerless or as stuck as we think we are. Most of the

Rob Dale:
time, there

Eric Deschamps:
is something we can do, shift, decide, that can change that whole Yeah.

Kate Beere:
And I think for me, exactly what you said is what I to minimize my stress. I just look at my stress differently now where I’m like, is this really worthwhile getting so worked

Wendy Dodds:
up? Right.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. Like, I’m I’m amped. Okay. Let’s do I need to be this amp? Can I bring that amp down? Yeah. Yeah. And the beauty of that is, like, I get to decide how I react

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
To that stress.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
It’s not happening to me. I’m I’m creating the stress myself. Yeah. No one is putting stress

Eric Deschamps:
on me.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. That’s inward. And when you can get to that place and and really look at it and start to when I I just always picture this meter, I’m here. Like, an old school thermometer. Yeah. Like, at the top, and I’m ready. And I could just wanna bring it down. Yep.

Kate Beere:
And I get to do that. You can choose to do that. I’m not saying it’s easy, but you can. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Nah. Yeah. Yeah. 100%. I’m gonna skip ahead to the last question just, for the sake of time here. I think it’s been again a great great conversation I’d like us to spend. I’d rather us not race through. I want us to spend a bit time here because I think this is a really powerful question.

Eric Deschamps:
But when, each of you kinda is looking forward, what are some changes that you might be able to make to improve or increase your work life integration? Like, when you’re thinking of some shifts, some changes, some decisions, what are you currently working on?

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. I think, kind of to piggyback on what I said, good can sometimes be just as okay as great. And and that allows me to open up more space for, other things that I want to do or that I where I wanna direct my, attention to go. For me, continuous work on boundaries and being able to embrace my personal bill of rights. I still remember when you introduced the book to me. I’ve introduced it. Yeah. To many of my clients, the art of everyday assertiveness.

Wendy Dodds:
You can put that in the show notes. But, it’s been a great tool for allowing myself to, give myself permission that I don’t need to justify anything around what it is that I choose to do.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
So that that’s that’s a continued work in progress.

Eric Deschamps:
I love that. Not everything deserves or even requires our best energy.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? But I think, we we did a a show, well, months ago now, last year, I think it was, on, being a high performer or Yeah. Overperformer. And we I think we all admitted that we’re kinda recovering overperformers. And when you you fall into that category, we tend to get like, everything needs this Yep. Massive output of energy, and sometimes that’s just not required. Right? We don’t need to deplete ourselves, so readily on every little thing that comes our way.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
And I think, for me, the thing I would say is for a lot of people, again, that don’t have the luxury that we have in creating our own skin, there is there there is a boss. There is a Yeah. Right. The the person who is giving the paycheck is Yeah. Stating things. Focus in on the things that are within your control. You may not have any you may not have the choice or the option to work a 4 day work week. You may have to go into work x number of days.

Rob Dale:
But, again, you have still even in those moments, you have so much that’s still within your control.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I love it.

Rob Dale:
And to focus in on the things that are within your control rather than the things outside.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right. And, again, one of the things that’s within your control is if you’re in the wrong environment.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
I agree. Right, you can either learn to, bloom in the field you’re currently planted in, or you can get a transplant. You can alright. You can move to another field, but you always have a choice. Right? You’re not proud. Yeah. But what are some things that you’re currently either working on or thinking of working on when you think of improving your work life integration?

Rob Dale:
Well, I think at the top of the list would be just managing expectations. Mhmm. Right? And it’s it’s, making sure again, go back to what I said around the my definition of success, in the last episode, last week’s episode, is that’s the notion of showing up authentically, of being authentic in every situation. And so it and even in work life balance, the biggest thing I’m working on is am I who who do I who am I trying to please? And if and if I know I am showing up the right way, then that’s enough. Right? And I don’t need to push that further. And so managing those expectations around, why those demands or what those demands are on me and how do I work through those.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Love that.

Kate Beere:
I think for me, it’s it’s the forgiveness part. So when it all like, even even that moment in the kitchen when I’m crying, that is me giving myself permission to not beat up on myself, but be more compassionate with myself. So so when it all starts well, I feel like it’s all falling apart and maybe to no one else’s vision, but inside, I feel like it’s all falling apart. Just just to be a little bit easier Yeah. On myself.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. Be more forgiving. Yeah. I’m still working through this model that I created. I think, it’s a good model where you kinda look at what are my current obligations. And obligations, are like work and family and relationships, things that I have obligated myself to. These are healthy obligations.

Eric Deschamps:
What are all my obligations currently? What are my aspirations? Those are goals, things I want to do, things that I’d love to do. Right? What are my expectations so that the expectations piece falls in there, and what expectations do I need to manage better? And then what are my inspirations? What are the things that inspire me? Light light my heart on fire. The things that I do that light my heart on fire. Fire, and kinda using that as a model, to evaluate kind of my work life integration. How am I doing? And am I am I in harmony or out of harmony? And what every time I do it, what I’m realizing more and more is how I put just about everything in the obligation category and treat it. Right? So talk about giving everything my best at every time. Like, actually, I never made a commitment to do this. This is something I want to do.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. So why am I holding myself to this unrealistic expectation of getting it done in the next week when actually there’s other things I’ve actually said I need to get done. Right? So, I

Wendy Dodds:
Or that I want to

Eric Deschamps:
get done. Or that I want to get done. Exactly. Exactly. Okay. Final final round, of questions here, the lightning round. What’s one piece of advice, you’d offer someone struggling to move away from sort of that traditional model. We’ve explored lots about this flexibility around it, and I do wanna make sure people didn’t misunderstand when we’re talking about flexibility around boundaries and not being too rigid.

Eric Deschamps:
If someone has come out of a period of, like, being really out of harmony and they’ve had to establish strong boundaries to get themselves back on track, stick with it. Right? Like, until you know Absolutely. That you’re back on a solid footing. Just just be mindful that those boundaries are serving you well right now. They might not serve you the same way a year from now. So just be flexible in your approach to that. But what’s one piece of advice you’d give to our listeners on how to approach this work life integration thing in a healthier

Wendy Dodds:
way. Hi.

Rob Dale:
I Wow.

Eric Deschamps:
And it’s a wrap.

Wendy Dodds:
No. I think balance isn’t something that you find. It’s something that you create. It’s like motivation. People in the gym world or fitness space will always say, I just can’t find motivation. Motivation isn’t something that you find or something you’re born with. It’s something that you cultivate through consistency. So whether that’s consistency on saying no to things that don’t serve you, whatever the case may be.

Wendy Dodds:
Somebody said something to me once, and it always stuck with me, and that’s don’t be so busy making a living that you forget to make a life.

Rob Dale:
Oh, I love that.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Great one. That’s great.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. I would suggest write down get present. Write down some things that you wanna shift. So what’s not working great for you right now if you feel out of out of balance and write down what would feel better.

Rob Dale:
Right. And

Kate Beere:
then it kinda gives you something to maybe start with and then pick 1. Yeah. And see if you can focus on one thing, and and it doesn’t have to be these we talk about this all the time. Micro changes add up over time. It doesn’t have to be a career shift. It can be a very small change that you implement in your day to day. But write it down, Star.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. I I would say learning to, accept more chaos. Right? The there’s an old another old saying that says, what you resist persists. And when we fight some of these changes that are normal evolutions and ebbs and flows in our lives, I think what we end up setting up for ourselves is an internal struggle. Yeah. Right? I said it, much earlier. I think it was on last week’s show that when you’re out of harmony internally, nothing you do can help you find harmony externally.

Eric Deschamps:
So start by embracing some more chaos, be more flexible, avoid that chaos and rigidity Yeah. And and and be more accepting of how life comes and flows.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. I would encourage people to pause, rewind about 20 seconds there, and listen to that statement again because I think there’s something there’s so much truth to that. Right? It’s about the internal, and and that fits into, I think, similar to what I really wanna leave people with and that is you’re not defined by what you’re you do. You’re not defined by those externals. You’re not defined by your role at work. You’re not defined as your role as a parent.

Kate Beere:
Mhmm.

Rob Dale:
You know, those are that’s not you. Those are the the roles you play and the things you do, and when you get really clear on who you are, what matters to you, and what enriches you, the work life balance question.

Eric Deschamps:
It it changes. Yeah. It

Rob Dale:
changes dramatically. Absolutely.

Eric Deschamps:
Guys, this has been another great conversation. I’m always, this is one of my rituals. I look forward to every month even though it’s a whole day of recording, having these rich conversations exploring these topics with you guys. And I I walk away with so much to think about. Yeah. And, folks, thanks for tuning in. I hope that you feel like I do, kinda like I got so much to unpack now. I hope you really got lots out of these 2 conversations around, rejecting the traditional work life bullshit and finding sanity beyond the scales.

Eric Deschamps:
We encourage you to please, like, share, and subscribe to the show. Let’s get the message of the Living Richly Nation out there. The audience continues to grow. Our listenership and viewership continues to grow. We’re so excited, that you’re along, for the ride with us. We encourage you to go to our website, living richly dot me, where you can find great information about all kinds of things, but two things in particular. 1 is the Living Richly Nation Facebook group. That’s our private, exclusive Facebook group where we have 100 and 100 of members where, who are on a similar journey of trying to live their best life, and you can find a growing community there of, of people on a similar journey and similar path.

Eric Deschamps:
And you can also learn about the 15 day life vision challenge. We referred to it today. Not only can you figure out who you are and what you stand for, but what are the things that fill your cup and bring you more happiness and how can you turn the volume up on that? It’s a completely free online experience, a tool designed to help you just live your best life. We are so grateful you’ve tuned in. We hope we’ll see you again next week. Until then, get out there and live your best life.