Bridging the Hormone Gap — What We Wish We’d Known Sooner with Dr. Emma Pollon MacLeod

Ep128 Bridging Hormone Gap with Dr Emma

Kate: [00:00:00] I think women haven’t felt very heard when they go and they express these things like, I’m feeling tired or my period’s heavy. And I think traditionally, like as growing up as a 20-year-old, the advice I got

Emma: that’s

Kate: how it is.

Emma: Yeah. We brought the conversation of hormones to the table, but it’s, understanding where does that actually fit within the journey.

Wendy: The frustration of too much information, not knowing where to go and still falling into the trap of so many physicians saying, let’s just. The stage of life that you’re in.

Emma: We don’t want to, feel outta control or feel like we can’t regulate.

Kate: Welcome to the Living Richly podcast. Today we’re talking about bridging the hormone gap and what wish we had known sooner in life. This is an exciting episode. It’s the latest. Episode in our series, real Women Real Talk that Wendy and I do, where we dive into all [00:01:00] things female related, and we have some pretty open, honest conversations.

And today we are joined by Dr. Emma Pollan McLeod. Welcome. Thank you. Thanks for having me. So glad that you’re here today. We’re gonna be. Diving deep into perimenopause, menopause, hormonal health, how to talk to our teens. I know this is a subject that you’re pretty passionate about. Naturopath.

CEO of Nutri Chem. And I’m gonna read the last part so I get it right. A Menopause Society certified practitioner. Yes. I love that. Have so many questions. Wendy and I were so excited for this. We’re very excited. Yes. Yeah. And we are gonna talk, I think, because so many of our listeners are at that stage of life where they’re dealing with their own hormonal issues and also trying to help their teen daughters through theirs. And so we wanna talk about both and what it means as a mom too, to navigate and how do you have some of those conversations? I do think it’s timely this week. In the news they, in the US it the FDA passed, I’m sure you’re very aware of [00:02:00] this. Yes. They removed the black black box warning, which is a fantastic step Yes.

In women’s health. It does still feel, I will say, for a lot of us. Women that we’re only getting started on this journey of women’s health. There’s not a ton of research that’s historically been done, but I’d love to get your take on why do you think it still feels like this? Like enigma or it still feels so fuzzy for so many women?

Emma: Yeah, and I’ve seen a dramatic shift over the last year. With, it’s just, it’s really women and patients. That are driving it, they’re more educated. There’s so much information out there now they’re, they don’t, they’re not having to access information only from their doctor.

So there’s some pretty powerful conversations happening. There’s always so much information out there though that sometimes I think the message can get lost because there is a bit of information. Overload with social media. Yeah. And so many, different voices that are [00:03:00] coming to the table.

Kate: Yeah. I think I drown in it all, like the social component. I’ve learned I preach to my kids. Don’t get your medical advice from TikTok. Yeah. But I have for sure. Done it at some point and then researched. Yes. Yeah. Like we’ve all done it. Because there it is that what is the trusted source for information and it’s really hard, I think, for a lot of

Wendy: women.

Yeah. Think it’s great that we have information now that we didn’t have for sure when we were growing up. But then on the flip side, there’s so much to your point, it’s how do you. Distinguish what is factual and what, what you’re gonna take from it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

Kate: If we start with, I’m gonna start with perimenopause.

You’re perimenopausal, I’m just, you admit that all the time with Michelle. You at me like, I’m like I’m like full menopause. I’m full set. Yeah. I got my official check the other day. Yeah. So officially for whatever that means. But I’d love to know from your lens. Because I think a lot of listeners get, as we just talked about, misinformation.

But what are really some of those early [00:04:00] perimenopausal signs? That. Maybe aren’t so standard that often they, women are like, oh, I get, they go to their doctor and it’s oh, it’s anxiety, or it’s this. And but what are some of those early signs that women should pay attention to?

Emma: Yes. And this is so important for us to talk about. ’cause if you don’t understand the journey and you don’t underst. Stand, we are like, okay, your period’s gonna start.

Wendy: Yeah.

Emma: But there’s no real discussion on what about how it stops? And I think that’s the journey.

It’s not, a check mark like we said. Yeah. Okay. We’ve got our menopausal stance. Yeah, exactly. That, that’s, we know that’s not how it works. And and we’ve brought the conversation of hormones to the table, but it’s, understanding where does that. Actually fit within the journey.

’cause different stages of it. You, there’s different interventions and there’s different things you can do to support a woman through, the stages. And that’s what it’s all about. It’s, having access to different tools and there’s stronger tools and knowing. When would certain ones work for you?

When is it safe to [00:05:00] bring them in? And how, like, how should you bring them in? And that’s the gap, and I like the, the, yeah. The title of the episode is you’re, women are like, okay, there’s something going on. I know it. I’m, my body is changing. My my resilience is changing.

Yeah. My, mood. All of these things, but I know there’s hormones, but how does that, how does that fit into my actual healthcare? Yeah. What are my

Kate: options? Yeah. Like I know for me, it just felt like everyone says, I just don’t feel like myself. Yeah. Like it’s probably the most common way women describe it, but you’re, yeah.

Wendy: ’cause it’s really hard to pinpoint. Oh, hard. What is it? Oh, it’s so hard. Yeah. And usually like your partner or your spouse will be like, yeah but what do you mean? Yeah. And then it’s, I don’t know. Yeah.

Emma: That, and that’s the issue. ’cause that’s, and I didn’t really answer your question on what the perimenopausal journey is.

Is, and that’s the issue with it sometimes, and we will get into that is, is that there’s no kind of. Easy textbook way, we think, oh, I would feel like this. It’ll, it’s so obvious. But it really [00:06:00] isn’t. And so when a woman is having a regular menstrual cycle even when we are having a regular cycle and we’re in our regular reproductive years, yeah.

We’re still cycling. There’s still no. Steady state of hormones. And so the perimenopausal transition is, it’s really a shift from the brain and the ovaries. So women are born with a finite number of eggs or follicles, right? So we have, we’re born with a number and as you age, the number declines.

Yeah. That’s just biology, that’s how it works. But as those eggs and are as they age. They also become less responsive. That is also just how things work with deterioration. So what ends up happening is that our brain will always want to try to maintain estrogen levels. It’ll always try to maintain ovulation.

The brain wants equilibrium. It wants your hormone levels high. So what happens on the biochemistry, body side is that your brain will try to keep sending signals to get your [00:07:00] ovaries to ovulate and get that dominant follicle to release estrogen when the the follicles are less responsive.

Your brain needs to send more and more signal to get ovulation to occur. So what happens in the kind of 40, like early 40, mid 40 range is that you have these. Cycles where your brain is sending so much signal to get ovulation to start, it can start to stimulate a second follicle within the first cycle.

So you almost have, you have stimulation of more follicles starting to produce this estrogen. It’s called a loop cycle. So you get these. Doubling and tripling levels of estrogen relative to progesterone. And so that’s where you can see the shifts in the actual period happen. So you’re still bleeding, you’re still having a period.

Yeah. But because there’s these crazy high and low levels. You start to get things like people are like, what? My cycles, it was 28 days clockwork, 25 days, 21 days. Yeah. Clotty really heavy. Yeah. I’m bleeding [00:08:00] all over the place. I’m non-functional. Yeah. Or the mood swings with those highs and lows are really intense.

So the way you can spot it like from a very. More traditional standpoint is a shift in the menstrual cycle. So those are the first signs that your ovaries are becoming a little bit less responsive and your brain’s having to work harder. So you’re gonna start to see shifts, plus or minus up to seven days, and you might see increases in flow.

Cloudiness heaviness. More cramping. So a lot of the times is where women can have really intense bleeding.

And crazy mo, like the, it’s more intensification of PMS. So instead of it being like a couple days before the period, yeah. It’s two weeks before the period, you’re like, I can’t, like I’m not functional.

The sleep is a big 1, 2, 3 am like, yeah, car palpitations can be a big issue. Eventually, and I know I’m going on, but I wanna show go through whole no. This is, I, [00:09:00] my, I just,

Kate: I’m like, oh yeah. It’s all very funny. And so

Emma: eventually what will happen though is the signal will fail.

So at some point, yeah, the ovaries and the eggs or the follicle, they won’t respond to the. The signal from the brain and that’s when you start to shift. So that’s early perimenopause, what I was talking about. There’s two, there’s different phases. So there’s the early phase, little bit of change of the cycle, plus or minus seven days intensification, crazy highs and lows.

This is the ruler coaster. Yeah. Eventually what will happen is you will start to skip or miss periods and the periods will start to become longer. So you know, instead of now coming rapidly, you’re like, weird, I’ve never missed this period in my life and now it’s 50 days. And then you might get like three.

Yeah. And then you’re like, okay, I just missed two. That is the transition into late perimenopause.

Kate: Interesting. I’ve never heard perimenopause be broken down into phases. Yeah, that’s actually. Super helpful. It’s really important.

Emma: Yeah. Because the phases are very different. Yeah. The first [00:10:00] phase is your body is still very responsive, but the signals are being cranked up by the brain.

So you are getting intensely high estrogen symptoms and like this is the rollercoaster is really in the early stages. Yeah. Once you transition late into late and you can still have. Cycles. Yeah. Like it’s cyclical. It doesn’t just, oh, now you’re in late. Let’s transition into this phase. You can still have a couple cycles of loop, but typically what you’re starting to see now is estrogen levels drop.

And so late. Perry. Yeah. When you start to miss this is 60, like when you’re like, okay, it’s been two cycles I’ve missed a period. One missing of a period is typically like you’re starting to get into late now. Yeah. This is much more typical of hot flashes and night sweats to actually start when you’re estrogen levels are dipping low.

Yeah. So you can have flashes before the period in early perimenopause, but it’s rare to have them. [00:11:00] Ah. All the time. Wow. And so transitioning into late, your body is now trying to adapt to the loss of estrogen. So having these like larger gaps of time when estrogen is lower, you tend to move more into, this is where a lot of the shifts with kind of brain fog, a lot of.

Achy joints, stiffness, injuries skin changes as your body is really trying to adapt. Yeah. And then you’ll have like maybe three or four cycles or five where you’re like, oh, it’s back. And then it’ll start to peter off again. Maybe you miss it for three and then eventually the period will stop.

And that’s early. Menopause, early stage menopause. And that’s where the bone law, like a lot of the body physiological adaptation happens in the early stage. Yeah. And the later stages, like late, five, seven years post, your body has like. Adjusted usually.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. It’s, I just feel like [00:12:00] I relived my forties.

Listening to each other. No, but just every, like literally that was my journey with it. Yeah. And I think I would love for us to talk about. When should women go see their doctor? Like at what point? ’cause I know my girlfriends and I we go out, you’re having a glass of wine, we’re all chatting about our perimenopause and our brain fog, and I can’t remember, and I don’t have the same energy and I’m not sleeping.

My hot flashes like all of the stuff and. This generation of women are like, buck up, get on with it. We’re not like, or you go to your doctor and often you’re not getting taken seriously. Or you get, they recommend an antidepressant. Yeah. Which seemed to be the the recommended drug to, to cure everything for us.

And so we often wouldn’t go. And we use each other, which is. Like helpful in a support system, but it’s not medical information. Yeah. And when do you recommend that women start talking to a pro [00:13:00] practitioner, whether that’s a naturopath whether that’s their family doctor, their ob, whatever that is.

Is there a stage where it’s just like they’re feeling a certain way? Is there a recommended, like where do they start? Yeah.

Emma: It’s important to understand the intention. Yeah. Like I always, it always comes back to that because depending on who you wanna see there’s different outcomes.

And setting expectations I think is important. Yeah. So if you’re someone who wants to be, if you are someone who is like. I wanna be proactive. I wanna understand what’s going on with my body. I’m in my mid thirties, late thirties, I’m having some issues. And again, you don’t even have to be having issues.

Yeah. Just understanding what is currently happening with, we just, we don’t value this sometimes the, we always think you must see someone when something is wrong. Yeah. Yeah. And what ends up happening is that you’re now trying to fix something versus trying to understand it and understand how you build resilience for your body before [00:14:00] you start the transition.

Because we know everyone woman’s gonna go through it. Some woman, I don’t like to paint this picture that it’s gonna be this journey for every single person. Sure. Yeah. The biology will happen. But the transition, how it impacts you in your quality of life is typically impacted by a lot of other factors like your other stress, like there’s so many other pieces that have a very significant impact on how intense your symptoms are.

Yeah. Women. If you are having, and I like the saying, just because it’s common doesn’t mean it’s normal. So if you’re having consistent symptoms associated with a period that are very painful, very heavy, like you should be talking to your doctor or ob Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you don’t necessarily have symptoms, but you are concerned about how your journey has been, or if you’ve had issues with PMS. Yeah. Then seeing someone like a naturopathic doctor Yeah. In that stage is [00:15:00] really important. ’cause we don’t wanna label everything as hormones. Yeah. It’s really important. Because the other side is true.

If we say, oh it’s your hormones, we might be missing. The iron deficiency that has gotten extreme because of the bleeding.

Kate: Yeah.

Emma: That’s a huge issue. It’s common. It’s not normal to be walking around anemic and try to function. No, but we’re like, oh, yeah, it’s your hormones.

You’re in perimenopause. Of course you’re exhausted. No. Like hormones won’t fix an iron deficiency. Yeah. So like these. Pieces or blood pressure undereating under nourishment, like these are very common, especially when women are trying to take control of their weight. So they’re eating less, working out, more bleeding like crazy every 21 days and they are.

Exhausted.

Wendy: Yep.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. All the things. All the things. Yeah. We’ve been there. I think I love that you talk about prevention. I know being a naturopathic doctor, you look at a lot of root cause. And I think that’s, [00:16:00] I think it’s, I think it’s so necessary and a gap in our kind of traditional medical system.

And I think, and I hope our listeners heard this, but it’s. If you’re feeling any kind of way, go talk to your PR practitioner or go see somebody. But there, you don’t have to sit there and be uncomfortable and call it perimenopause and call it’s hormones if you want to understand what’s going on with your body.

And to your point, if you’re bleeding excess, like there are options for women. And there are treatments for women that aren’t only HRT as well. Of

Emma: course.

Kate: Yeah. Yeah. And that’s.

Emma: Important. ’cause I think some people assume it’s a na, it’s natural. Why would I need a treatment?

So we put ourselves in these box where we think that there’s this badge we get for just gritting through where I’m like how are you supposed to function if you’re not sleeping right? You have no energy and you’re not able to function at work. It’s, why aren’t we, why don’t we value [00:17:00] this?

This is important that you feel good and you get sleep and Right. That’s important. We sometimes have to tell women like, your health and your quality of life Yeah. Is critical. Yeah. So

Kate: why, okay, I’m gonna unpack that a little bit. ’cause I think. So many women. I’m thinking of so many conversations we’ve had on the podcast.

We are so many

Wendy: women. We are,

Kate: but how much we put ourselves last, right? We’ve done a lot of episodes on self-care and women in particular, how they struggle and how everyone else comes first. I know for me it’s definitely it’s everything you just said. It actually, I’m like, hearing you speak.

I’m like that just god feels so selfish. It really, like that’s where my brain goes, which is, and that’s something we talk a lot on the show is how do you start shifting those conversations. And I think primarily it’s for so long that I think women haven’t felt very heard when they go and they express these things.

I’m feeling tired or. My period’s heavy and I think traditionally, as growing up as a 20-year-old, the [00:18:00] advice I got that’s how it is. Yeah. And so I think the more women that can have a voice and really start saying no Hey, this isn’t normal and this isn’t okay.

And really taking, I think, some ownership too of their health journey. And finding the right practitioner for them. Finding the right fit. We talk a lot too on the show about finding if you’re in therapy, you find the right therapist and you date your therapist until you find the right one.

I know we don’t really have the liberty of dating our family physicians right now. There aren’t enough, but there are options out there. And I think, encouraging people to

Wendy: Yeah.

Kate: To take ownership

Wendy: as well. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I can’t remember exactly what you said, but you alluded to just being more proactive than reactive.

Yeah. And not falling into the trap, like when we were in our twenties. That’s just the way it is like. We do deserve to have a good quality of life. And it is about, you have to self-advocate. I find a lot of women just the frustration of. Too much information, not knowing where to go and still falling into the trap of so many physicians [00:19:00] saying that’s just the stage of life that you’re in.

Yeah. And feeling even more defeated when you leave the office and not really know how to manage that and just feel frankly like shit, because Yeah. You feel like. I still have to do all the things I need to do and when to, now I’m not enjoying life. Because of how I’m feeling.

Kate: Yeah. And I think, like we’ve talked openly about our hormone, I’m gonna say hormone replacement therapy. Yeah. But HRT and our journeys with that on the show, but I wonder sometimes if we’re like, like HRT is gonna cure everything and it doesn’t, it’s such a

Wendy: big topic now. Oh yeah. It’s huge.

Such a big topic and it’s huge and

Kate: it helps, like I’m, I am the first one to say I’m so grateful that I got educated and learned more about it. And for me it’s made a huge difference. However, there’s other things that I’ve been doing. Yeah. So I’d love to hear from you yes, HRT if it’s an option, it’s sort a right fit for the, for a woman where she’s at.

Yeah. But what are some other things that women can start doing to maybe help in that, perimenopausal, menopausal journey. [00:20:00]

Emma: Yeah. I just I did a whole event on this day. Educational thing for women on called Thriving through Menopause. And my talk was literally on this. So just, take home message for anyone listening is that hormones are a tool, but they’re not the goal.

And I think what. People are seeing right now is Yeah, we’re we want quick fixes. Yeah. We’re like, oh, perfect here. Yeah. Totally. Gimme hormones. It’s gonna fix all the things. Yeah. Where there’s a time, I’m a huge advocate for hormone therapy as well. Yeah. Like you said, but there’s a time and a place and hormones won’t if you don’t build your, the foundations of health.

Yeah. Like you must build muscle. Yeah. You need to work on, stress. Nutrition and diet is critically important. Yeah. These pillars and foundations must be there, and using hormone therapy as a tool to help your body through the transition can be incredibly [00:21:00] effective.

But if you’re still doing, if you’re, if you haven’t.

Brought any of these things in. Yeah. The way you’re going to get the effects from hormones, they won’t work as well. And I think it’s, so there are other tools. Foundations are always Yeah. Critical. So diet, can’t we can’t underestimate how important it is that you’re actually eating.

Yeah. And you’re eating protein. Yeah. And you’re nourishing your body. Yeah. And you’re not starving yourself and fasting all day long. Yeah. Exercise building muscle. Like again, critical. Yeah. Understanding your stress, understanding. I think a huge part is actually giving yourself permission to seek support.

Wendy: And

Emma: not trying to be like, okay, just fix it really quick. ’cause I don’t have time for my health. But now we’re still in the same loop. Yeah. Loop, yeah. Foundations. It’s important to understand though, that, so there’s a lot of, there are other options and I’m a Nutri Chem is also a pharmacy.

Yeah. My husband’s a pharmacist. My [00:22:00] dad’s a pharmacist, so I also think we don’t wanna get, there’s no good or bad options. Yeah. I really, think that we’re, hormones can’t be synthetic. They have to be bioidentical. You can’t there’s. Birth control equals bad. This isn’t good.

Yeah. No. Any di so I am very, much Yeah. In the camp that some people need different options. And if we guilt them Yeah. And create more stress Yeah. That maybe they need, like I’m a huge proponent of IUDs for women who need them. There’s options. Yeah. But if we create more barriers and shame and judgment Yeah.

Then we’re actually, reducing the options that women feel like they have. So there’s different options for the different stages. Yeah. And there’s some natural options that, again, these are gentle tools. Yeah. They’re not powerful tools. They take a lot longer, but they can be very effective in the early perimenopausal stage.

Yeah. There’s no [00:23:00] natural. Supplement that will stimulate estrogen receptors. Estrogen does. Yeah. We, there’s no, there’s nothing I can give you naturally that will build bone like estrogen does. Yeah. So these are important conversations. So we’re not misleading women. Yes. We can help with symptoms Yeah.

In perimenopause, but there’s no natural thing I can give you that will work as well for hot flashes and night sweats. Okay. Or that will actually address the physiological change. Yeah. To. The depletion of estrogen.

Wendy: I was so hot last night. I felt like the room was on fire.

Kate: Just saying, I’ve been there.

Literally I’ve been there. Oh my gosh. Yes, I have been there. I’m now past that now that everyone knows our or where we’re at. But I, it’s so important to talk about well, you, yeah, that’s hormones. But it’s, the hormones have helped. I don’t have my hot flashes. I’m not waking up at 2:00 AM anymore.

Yeah. My brain fog is still a thing, but that’s, there’s things, so some things have really improved and what’s improved is significant for me. Yes. And and to your [00:24:00] point, I do treat it as something in my toolkit. Yes. Like to your, like it is exercise. Yeah. I love

Wendy: the toolkit analogy because I think we forget that.

And to your point, it’s, it’s all about the quick fix. Yeah. Like the Amazon Prime. Yeah. It’s like showing up like between 4:00 AM and 8:00 AM everything’s gonna. Fixed, right? Yeah. But it’s the toolkit. I love that analogy. Yeah. Because I think that women need to be super educated and not be getting distracted on, maybe HRT is great for you, maybe it’s not, but what about the other things in your toolkit?

Yes. So do you’re like, yeah. Are you eating well? Are you doing all of the things? Yeah.

Kate: And holistically looking at your body. Yes. And I think you said it well, as well as we don’t often prioritize our health like holistically. From head to toe. And we might focus on one area for a while.

Yeah. Or I’m gonna hit the gym really hard and I am, now I’m fasting, or now I’m not eating. Yeah. Or now I’m like, I’m gonna focus on diet and then maybe I’m not lifting weight or Right. And we tend to get hyperfocused versus introducing the lifestyle. And it’s your foundation and it’s weaved into your yes. Into your day. [00:25:00] Consistency over perfection. Always. Yeah. And Yeah. Words to live by. Yeah. Yes. Yes it is though. It’s it’s not about hitting it a hundred percent every single day all the time. It’s just stay with us. Yes.

Emma: And that’s sometimes, that’s sometimes I think where a lot of the confusion lies is, not un because we think that there’s supposed to be a quick fix. We will flip from thing to thing because we’re like, it’s not working fast enough. It’s not the right thing. And so we are taught that there is this. Secret W or social media does it there’s an answer out there. You just haven’t found it.

Once you find that one thing and now the thing is hormones, yeah, it’s gonna, everything will change and everything will be better. But knowing like hormones true though, you know what the tools are for like hormones? Yeah. For sleep.

Kate: Yeah.

Emma: Hot flashes. Phenomenal. Yeah. Like better than anything else you can do for perimenopause for sure.

Yeah. But if you’re trying hormones because [00:26:00] you feel like your body is changing or your are moody all the time, there’s other pieces we’re gonna need to break down first and you won’t have the impact as quickly. But understanding if those are your issues, build foundation and yeah. That can, really support you fast.

Yeah. I think these are the conversations we wanna have.

Kate: Yeah. And I think it’s important the quick fix mindset is like, it’s just, it’s. We, you talked about the Amazons part. Yeah. It’s part of it, but I think specifically with perimenopausal men like this is years and years of your life. Like you have to find strategies to be able to manage it over those years.

Yeah. It’s not gonna

Wendy: be find the magic pill and feel better. No. Which I think transitions nicely into, as we’re raising Yeah. Girls. How that kind of translates into being able to support and educate our daughters and really be able to start conversations with them that don’t sound clinical [00:27:00] or doctory. Or mommy preachy. Or mommy Yeah.

Kate: Quite frankly.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. I guess how would you and when, yeah. Would you what kind of suggestions would you give in terms of how we can start having those conversations? Or maybe there’s lots of listeners who are having conversations, but they’re just not.

I think a lot of moms are like, am I saying this right? Am I totally overwhelming them? Yeah. Where do I start and what should I be saying to support them, but also not bombard them with information? Yeah.

Emma: Yeah, I get asked this a lot, for in any age, girls that haven’t yet gotten a period or they’re just about to get their period, or it’s just started. I’m a huge fan of encouraging parents to talk to their, to talk to girls for any health condition around connecting before we try to correct something. So I think. We are, given the theme of the conversation, the quick fix.

And because there’s so much information we do sometimes auto go to, oh my gosh, [00:28:00] let’s fix let’s dive in and fix this. Let’s get on top of this. And giving your body a little bit of grace to understand, okay, what is your cycle like, connecting with it a little bit first and understanding that.

In the first year and just talking to them, it’s very normal for periods to be very irregular for them to not come nor like to come. Cyclically sometimes we expect it to come on right away and to set up the conversation that we’re more just we’re just learning. We’re not trying to, we’re not trying fix or correct.

We’re just learning about your body and your body is. Literally trying to start to set a cycle up, which is incredible. Yeah, it’s amazing. Yeah, your ovaries have been suppressed for, 10, 12 years, and now your brain has to start turning them on, getting the signals going, and setting the expectations that your body is navigating something, complex.

We wanna [00:29:00] be really kind to it. We wanna nourish it. We wanna make sure you’re eating, like honestly eating enough and getting enough food. Yeah. And making sure women are like, your girls are getting protein. Yeah. And again, we don’t need to be. Over the top, like overloading them. Yeah. But just being like you’re starting to bleed.

Your body is now needing to grow and develop. Yeah. Like we need to fuel it and feed it. That’s honestly probably the most important. Yeah. Information they can have, not to try to. Start like under eat while their bodies are trying to like, and there are gonna be changes and we have to just connect with them.

I’m a big fan of starting there.

Kate: Yeah. I love that. I know with my daughter, like a big thing for me was to try and. Help shift. Like she had this mindset it’s shameful still, it’s still dirty thing to get your period and somehow it’s hidden and it’s like in the, it’s like it’s something she needs to hide over here from girlfriend’s school, her brothers, me, her dad.

[00:30:00] And so trying to at least give her a safe space with me to have that conversation. Yeah. But I’m also like overly too passionate about educating my boys on. Like you don’t in my house there, like there’s no room for the shame. Yeah. When your sister’s got her period. So those the like. Yeah. Oh, is it that time of month?

’cause she’s all like bitchy. Great. Okay. Yeah, maybe it isn’t. Yeah. But if it is, how about a little compassion for your sister? Yeah. Because here’s what she deals with. Yeah. When, so trying to educate them in a way that feels like, yeah. I get so heated sometimes though I’m aware that my delivery’s not the best as a mom, but it’s really because I wanna help shift the narrative with my boys Yeah.

Too, so that they can then support their girlfriends, their wives, down the road. And so sometimes I would like love to know how to talk to them better about, yeah. And it’s weird. They’re teenage boys. Yeah. There’s only, the language you use matters and how you [00:31:00] communicate it. But I do think it’s equally important to talk to your boys if you have boys.

Yeah, I agree. About what’s going on. Yeah,

Emma: I completely agree. I have two boys. Yeah. So I’m in the boys zone. Yeah. But yeah, I think just how open conversations Yeah. That it’s, it’s part of a. The Li and I, honestly, what you’re doing, just them seeing that and having these conversations and saying, yeah, it’s, this is the reality and it’s have compassion and understanding and not blaming and shaming because i’m like, whatever you are saying or thinking, as a woman we’re thinking. Yeah. And feeling that too, we don’t want to. Feel outta control or feel like we can’t regulate. We’re not like, this doesn’t feel good, right? And so having other people kind of pile onto that, and I always use the term pile on don’t pile on.

Just I’m. I’m working through my stuff. I have tools and give her tools to support like, what do you [00:32:00] need during this time? And understand from her a little bit. I think that’s key is letting you know, and sometimes they don’t know what they need, but giving space to be like, you might have to explore your body needs different things at different times.

And as we age, what we need changes. And I sometimes think, yeah, we forget that. We’re like, oh, okay. What we’re doing at this stage, but. That didn’t work for me or I never had to do that. I’m like, yeah, things will change. And that’s okay. That’s okay. Yeah. And

Kate: I, I know for, and I’m sure you’ve had this when you’re like, my daughter came home from school the other day ’cause she had cramps and I remember I was, I picked her up obviously, but I remember thinking back to when I was in, in school.

Oh yeah. I think just generation generationally how much we’ve shifted. Like my mom would’ve said. I don’t care. Like you stay at school, like buck up, get on with it. That was just, that’s how it was. And so now sometimes I’m like, I’m grateful that I can give my daughter I’ll pick you up.

Here’s a heating pad. Do you need some Advil? Take care of her. But then part of me also is do we [00:33:00] talked about this along the show. Do you over rotate so much that I think part of me like gives her so much care because I didn’t have any in that space, so now I feel myself giving her extra care and making sure she’s taken care of. And so what is that? It’s a tricky balance to know, like you wanna nurture and take care of your kid but you also you’re gonna have your period for. A very long time. So how am I also mentally equipping her to be like, it’s okay to slow down and take time, but you also because of your period doesn’t mean you, you’re not going to school for the next three days.

Like I,

Wendy: it’s a tricky balance in there. Yeah, I think that’s a great point because like I will say as a business owner, the amount of, staff that call out sick because they have their period is Yeah. And they are in that younger age demographic. Yeah. And so to your point, it’s, I wanna make sure I’m sup supportive, but at the same time, the other side of me is girl, you’re gonna have to deal with this for the next, yeah, it’s 40 years.

I don’t know what to tell you. Yeah. I think there’s a, you find that Yeah. Ability to be compassionate and supportive, but to your point, it’s but. [00:34:00] Life still needs to go on. So how can we manage this and make sure that you’re supported Yeah. But also not getting it in your head that, you need a week off school or your job every month.

Kate: Yeah. And I think every kid is different. Sure. Everybody’s different For sure. So I like honoring that. Like every kid has a very different Yes. Or every girl has a very different cycle and Yeah. That can show up. Yeah. And that’s the complexity of

Emma: it, is that there’s some, women that.

It’s like they’re not, they can’t get outta bed and they’re vomiting. Hundred. Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s very, there’s the pendulum. And the pendulum will always over Correct and swing one way. But as a parent, yeah. It’s, watching your kid in pain is the worst. The worst.

And, we’ll, it’s the worst always, you just wanted, I know like my youngest had to go through a couple surgeries and I had to learn. I’m, you can’t do anything to take away their pain, but we will overcompensate. So at the end of the day, I think it’s just you being there. Doesn’t mean you have to like, remove.

Every [00:35:00] barrier. Yeah. But I think them knowing like you’re supportive on the days where it’s really bad. Yeah. You can that’s where it’s have the scale be like if you’re under a five, this is, you are gonna have to breathe through it. And sometimes distraction is actually a good thing.

Yeah. Sometimes like leaning into your, like a lot of the top pain clinics now where, Mayo Clinic, all the there’s no, they’re not talking about their pain rating. Pain. A lot of the times where when we have pain, if we sit in the pain and just become consumed with the experience. It will become worse.

It’ll your brain is oh, this is important. Let’s focus on this. Yeah. So just having, some dialogue around, okay. I’m here. I believe you if you say it’s too intense to focus. Totally. We’re gonna need to establish a little bit more understanding around, is that your day two, where it’s typically like really bad.

Yeah. Yeah. Other days if it’s better, like you’re gonna have to learn to, and that’s, it’s, [00:36:00] yeah. I’m a big fan of understanding like, your body is strong. Yeah. And we can handle shit. Yeah. Let’s not shy away from Yeah. Challenge. Pain, discomfort. Yeah. ’cause we don’t grow. Yeah.

There’s, there is a push and a pull.

Kate: And I think too, what you said about understanding your daughter’s cycle is really important. Yeah. And I would encourage dads to understand their daughter’s cycles and understand their wife’s cycles. As well. Yes. Just to understand, oh, okay, we’re on day nine.

That’s what this means. Like getting familiar with that and getting educated in that space. My daughter has an app. Yeah, so there’s an app for everything now, but she tracks her cycle and she’s I think if we had an app when we were I would’ve loved an app. I don’t think I want an I paper calendar.

We like literally got your ex’s pee. I always had pee on my, I always wrote Me too. It was

Emma: always just a pee. It was never more complicated that. Fancy ops. Oh my god. Colors. And

Kate: I know, and I wouldn’t want the app ’cause mine was so irregular it probably would’ve said I was like [00:37:00] dying of something. Sure. But I do think it’s important to get to know your daughter’s cycle and understand is she crampy three days before?

Is it during, is it, how is her cycle? Is her cycle cha? And having the open dialogue and the Yeah, and the conversations.

Wendy: Yeah. Like the information that we give. And maybe we could just go through quickly, like if you had maybe. Two suggestions on maybe some of the important information to share with your daughters.

Yeah. Whether it’s like birth control or, I know we spoke some of it, but do you have like maybe one or two kind of. Top recommendations that you would say we should prioritize in terms of sharing information so that we’re not overwhelming them?

Emma: Yeah, so I think talking about, maybe what can be very common, but what might not be normal cramping, discomfort that you feel It can be very normal if you find you like your, if your daughter isn’t going to school, ’cause she’s having days where she’s like.

I’m not I can’t function. Yeah. I’m not like, these are [00:38:00] things that you know. We should be seeking support for an understanding. Is there some endometriosis going on? Yeah. What is going on? What’s happening here? If, if she isn’t getting, like again, the first year, it’s normal that. You can miss periods that it’s not coming regularly.

Not coming every month. Usually after the first year, maybe 14, 16 months, you should be getting quite a regular period. And if you’re not having a regular period, so just checking in to be like, yeah, hey, can you just, these are things that we just wanna make sure you’re on.

Somewhat of a regular cycle. And if not, that’s where you wanna make sure that you’re building a little bit more support. So more like the level of pain, the consistency of the period are some pretty key indicators as to if you might need more support. Yeah. Or if this is something that she’s just gonna, you’re just helping be there.

Not necessarily fixing it ’cause we can’t. Yeah. But just being there to be like, what do you need, [00:39:00] go easy on them or just show them about you. You’re gonna need to, you’re gonna have more cravings or whatever your mood might be a little off. We’re not angry at you. Sometimes it’s nice to be like, we love you, you’re a good person.

We understand that you’re learning to regulate for these couple days and nothing you say or do in this time. Like we’re not holding it against you. And so I love that sometimes

Wendy: that’s, yeah, I love that toos,

Kate: the safety. It’s just that safety net of it’s be you. Yeah. Yeah. And we get it. And we’re not like, it’s why I’ve talked about this on the show, our foundation in our family is I, we have the foundation of I Love You, which is like holding up the house.

Yeah. But there are times I I just, I don’t like your behavior. Yeah. Yeah. But the foundation doesn’t go anywhere. No. It’s that same thing and it’s totally out of their control. Yeah. And I think that’s something that is not well understood. Yeah. It, and it’s very hard for women to explain is I always explain it when I would have really bad PMs, is I feel like I’m watching myself third party [00:40:00] be like so nasty and not the person that I consider myself to be and I have no control.

But I, I feel like I’m watching a movie

Wendy: Of

Kate: someone. And I would always explain it that way, but it’s very hard to explain when you’re in that and you’re just like, no, ’cause it’s your reality. You’re like, this is just me.

Emma: Yes. And then after you’re like, oh, I guess that was, I guess that. But I think, being like, you’re not gonna know how to regulate that.

And it’s hormones. Yeah. And also just to be like if it’s impacting, your relationships with your friends, your ability to connect with it. Be like, let me know if and when you want some support on this. Yeah. ’cause it’s not like. Forcing it, but it’s also they’re, you’re leaving the door open.

You’re leaving the door open. Yeah. Because we do want to empower women to be like, how do we, give you support so you learn how to communicate around this time so you don’t blow up a bunch of

Kate: Yeah.

Emma: Shit. When people don’t know. Totally. But it also has to [00:41:00] be, you have to want to seek the support yourself.

Right?

Kate: 1000. Yeah. And I think women need to ask for what. They need. And I love the idea of equipping women to even learn how to do that. Yeah. ’cause I think so many of us, yeah. Don’t ask for what we need. Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah. I do appreciate how you mentioned a couple minutes ago around just a timeframe because I think that’s so helpful for moms is how Yeah.

Long should I be waiting before, I think you said like about 14 months or so for their cycle. Like for everything to regulate so that we’re not rushing them to the doctor too soon. Yeah, totally. What’s a good timeframe? To be like, okay, so this is how long it’s gonna take for things to stabilize, normalize, and then we can see hey, after 14, 15, my year and a half Yeah.

Think you. Now, maybe it’s, let’s look at other options, but I think that’s really helpful. Because I would’ve thought it would’ve been like, I dunno, four months, five months. So just knowing that it can take that time can sometimes be reassuring as a parent knowing that Okay. And [00:42:00] to reassure your daughters as well, that. It does take time to regulate.

Emma: Yeah. And if you’re ski and again, like if you’re, if a, if your girls are missing periods for three months or so, so in that time it’ll take, yeah, you’re not gonna go, some women do, like some girls, it’s 28 days, quite quickly. 28, 35, 21.

Yeah. 40, 32. 27. Yeah, that’s normal. Yeah. If you’re like, okay, she got three periods and then we haven’t seen anything for 3, 4, 5 months.

We should look because the, again, just like when you lose estrogen Yeah. Later on in life estrogen is really critical for bone development, cardiovascular development.

There’s a lot of critical things we require. Estrogen is required for the development of a lot of our systems. Yeah. So not having your period as an indicator that your body is not getting the hormone it needs, a [00:43:00] beyond three months. That’s where you should definitely if it’s been three, four months after the period has initiated.

Yeah. That would be a, it’s time. It’s time to just check in. That’s, and that’s, and that’s, PCOS is a big thing and we wanna just make sure like what’s going on, you’ll probably be given birth control. Yeah. That’s what will often be given. Yeah. And just knowing that might be the thing.

Yeah. Yeah. Is important for women to not be in shock when someone says, Hey, I wanna prescribe your. 14 or 15-year-old birth control, giving yourself, okay, what are the risks? If I give it or if I don’t. Yeah. It will regulate. It’ll give the estrogen that you require for the things, but understanding why it’s happening is also important.

Kate: Yeah, and we talked about this earlier. I just went through that and I’m still unsettled about it. I think sometimes parents just get. Yeah. You get, you worry and you worry about your kids and you worry about your daughters, and all of a sudden it’s, they’re your babies. When birth control comes up, I think a lot of moms instantly will have a reaction.

Which is whoa. [00:44:00] Yeah. Of course. It’s like a trigger word. It’s you, but we need to get educated about it Exactly as you said. Yes. Okay. In wrapping up, I’d love to just. And with, if there’s one thing you would want our listeners to unlearn about hormones in general, what would it be?

Emma: I think I’m gonna go back to that thing that I said that hormones can be an incredibly effective tool, but they are not, it’s not the goal. I love that. That is, if I had to have one quick statement, I love that.

Kate: Thank you for being on the show. I think we so good. I could have asked you one more questions.

Yeah. As soon as you mentioned

Wendy: P-C-O-S-I was like, geez, we didn’t even,

Kate: I know we could unpack. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you so much for joining us. If you would like to learn more from Dr. Emma, we will add links in the show notes. You can also visit nutri chem.com or you can follow Dr.

Emma on Instagram. That link will also be in our show notes. If you [00:45:00] enjoy today’s episode, please share and subscribe. You can. Always listen to us where you listen to all of your podcasts. You can also check us out@livingrichly.me where you can join our Facebook Nation group. And if you’re a business owner and you’re ready to lead boldly, be sure to check out Rhapsody Strategies.

So until next time, get out there and continue living you’re best life.