Accountability Unlocked: The Key to Living a Meaningful Life

Accountability Unlocked: The Key to Living a Meaningful Life

Rob: [00:00:00] Without accountability there’s, it’s a hit or miss whether the commitment will actually lead to the results that you’re looking for.

Kate: So I think as you get older, you’re like, Oh, okay. Like maybe I didn’t deliver on something. It doesn’t make me less than it doesn’t make me less worthy. It doesn’t make me less of a person that might not

Wendy: have been your fault, but how are you going to move on from that?

And that’s, that’s only your responsibility. And to take that responsibility, the only way you can do that is having that self reflection and that personal accountability

Eric: over 70 of the population never moved beyond brain development. I must fit in. I exist to fit in. Hi,

Rob: welcome to the Living Richly podcast. So glad to have you here with us. It’s my first time hosting in, in the year you haven’t hosted. It’s incredible. Since last, since last year, we are We’re going to be diving into the topic of personal accountability, which is a huge topic. It’s interesting because we’re all we’re all available to do public speaking.

We, [00:01:00] we certainly get offers and invitations to speak at different events with companies and everything. Probably personal accountability is one of those topics or accountability is one of those topics that I get asked to speak on maybe more than anything else. Maybe difficult conversations would be right up there, but those would be the top.

Two. And it’s interesting because when I will ask an audience, what do they want to know about accountability, they will immediately go to how to hold others accountable. Right.

All: And

Rob: the last thing they want to do is talk about how to hold themselves accountable, personal accountability. Yeah. But we’re going to talk about that and the importance of it, but maybe Eric, I’ll turn it to you to start off is just, let’s define what we mean.

When we talk about personal accountability.

Eric: What it boils down to for me is owning your own shit. Like it’s, it’s being responsible and accountable to your goals, holding yourself to your goals, to your aspirations. To your word, following through on your word and your commitments. I think a lot of times there’s a lot of drift there.

And when you say we, we speak a lot to think of the business [00:02:00] audience that we speak to and the literally thousands of leaders that we’ve spoken to now over the years and how many of them have ever, I’ve said to us, if only my people were more accountable, now we turned the flip. We flipped that around.

We said, yeah, okay, let’s talk about that. But Mr. Business owner, Ms. Business owner. Who holds you accountable, right? And so personal accountability is the beginning, I think, of true success because you don’t need external pressure to keep you true to your goals. You benefit from it, but you ultimately don’t need it.

Kate: Yeah. I don’t have a lot to add because I think really at the end of the day, it’s holding yourself, as you said, accountable. What are the consequences for myself if I’m in a situation, I don’t know, disagreement? How, like, how am I holding myself accountable for how I showed up, right? It’s that personal piece.

It’s the expectation on myself that’s aligned with my values. What is that? Yeah. Yeah.

Rob: A lot of times people confuse responsibility

Kate: and

Rob: accountability. Yeah. How do we differentiate those two? [00:03:00]

Kate: Yeah, I see it as like responsibility. It’s like you can be assigned a responsibility which can also be assigned to multiple people.

The personal accountability, that accountability part is, is for one solo person myself. I’m accountable to get that done. Right. That’s kind of how I. differentiate it in my head. Yeah,

Eric: they’re often used as synonyms almost. But yeah, to expand on that. It’s like if I have a, if I have a role within a business, let’s say that role comes with certain responsibilities, things that I am responsible for.

So and of course, personal responsibilities, I’m responsible for what I’m responsible for being held accountable. is being held to account for those responsibilities, right? So if I am not following through, if I am not fulfilling my role, if I’m dropping the ball, I’m going to be held to account for that.

So accountability in the workplace, we need it. We need it to make sure that people are following protocols, making sure they’re following through on their outcomes. What we’re talking about here is taking ownership of that for [00:04:00] yourself, right? So that you’re, you’re again, I can be responsible for certain things, but personal accountability is holding myself to account so that I don’t need external motivation, extrinsic motivation versus I’m internally motivated to do it and I’m holding myself to it.

Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah. A hundred percent. It’s a choice. Yeah. And it’s really where growth happens. And. Integrity lives,

Eric: right? I love that. Integrity lives. Yeah. Integrity lives. Yeah. As I’ve

Rob: always said, accountability is where integrity lives.

Eric: No, you can’t do that. The first time you use it, you have to give her credit.

So as Wendy always says, the second time you use it, As someone wise once said, then it’s as I always say, you’re welcome. Gracious. And your husband just saying, wow. Yeah. Just saying you guys are going to need a conversation afterwards. Just, you’re going to have, she’s going to hold you accountable.

All: I

Rob: love this quote Peter Drucker.

[00:05:00] And, and often when I’m speaking on this topic, I I’ll share this quote. Accountability is the glue that ties commitment to results. What comes to mind when you hear that statement?

Kate: Well, I think being accountable, it just like it, it’s, it, it shifts your mindset in a way from being a passive participant in what’s happening.

So it forces you that glue, right? That glue holds you personally accountable for your actions, for whatever it is in that scenario. And to me, that’s, it’s, it’s. It’s really that like it’s that short and sweet

Wendy: for me. Yeah. No, I agree with what you’re saying because I really think that you can’t control your circumstances always.

You can’t control your environment, but you can absolutely control you. And I have this conversation often with my oldest daughter, who’s navigating through life, you know, as teenagers do. And always trying to tie that back to self reflection and personal accountability. It’s so [00:06:00] easy for us to blame, but you know, it’s because of this or it’s because of that, or don’t worry, like, we can’t control any of that, but, but you can control how you show up, how you respond.

Right, right.

Rob: Yeah. Well, and I see it and, and there’s so often we will have somebody even in team meetings. We know somebody who’s very good at doing this where they make all these commitments. Yeah. Yeah. I’ll take care of that. You’ll have it by two o’clock today. Right? All of this stuff. And then they’re distracted by other things and the results don’t show up.

And that’s what I love so much about this, the idea behind what Drucker is saying in this quote is, is without accountability there’s, it’s a hit or miss whether the commitment will actually lead to the results that you’re looking for.

Eric: Listen, just take the average business meeting in North America where at the, when, when, after all is said and done, far more is ever said than done, right?

How many meetings have you ever left and then come back to the next meeting after that? And Oh, forgot. Oh, didn’t yap. Didn’t follow through. One of the best things you can do is make the. [00:07:00] First part of your agenda revisiting action steps last meeting one, you should be recording them at the end of the meeting.

Who’s doing what by when, and one of the first things you do at the beginning of the next meeting is all right, guys, let’s check in that sense of team accountability and guarantee you, you may show up to that meeting once or twice and not have followed through. You’re going to get your shit in gear because you don’t want to keep showing up to that meeting, always being the person saying, I didn’t follow through, it’s still behind, and other people are depending on you.

So team accountability is huge. You talked about it in the last episode about writing things down, sharing it with someone, and even getting an accountability partner. This is the idea of making myself accountable to someone where I empower them to hold me to my word, hold me to my promises, right? Now, I remember in the church world many years ago, there was an accountability movement that really began to come up and it was about holding your each other to account, but I think where it fell down is it was putting all the pressure on the community to hold you accountable.

This is where if you [00:08:00] lack personal accountability, you will be held hostage to your accountability structures or networks, and if they fail you, you will fail, right? I, I, I’m an advocate for both. I think we need community. We need people in our lives that we empower to hold us to account, to call us on our bullshit.

to call us out when we’re making excuses in a spirit of love and cooperation, right? Not in a critical way, but to say, Hey, like you, you’ve committed to this. Like when are you going to follow through? Like we need that, but it needs to come from within as well. Ultimately the real power is in personal accountability, team accountability, community only enhances that, but it can’t replace.

Because

Rob: in a lot of teams, what eventually happens is. People start to either forgive or, you know, all it’s okay. You didn’t get it done. Right. Where if you’re, when you hold, you’re absolutely right. When it starts with you holding yourself accountable now at that point, you’re not looking for somebody else to give you the pat on the back or anything else.

You’re doing it because you recognize you have made a commitment to do that. And it’s amazing how [00:09:00] quickly people fall. Fall short of doing that.

Eric: Listen, I’m a, you know me well enough to know I’m a big component of grace. I’m a big component of radical self acceptance and for far too long was far too hard on myself.

I think I have found a much more balanced approach to that now, but I think our culture, we let ourselves off the hook far too easily. We let our team members off the hook far too easily. And it’s often because, not because we don’t want the result and it’s often, it’s, it’s, it’s. It’s like a grace imposter.

It’s actually not grace. We’re just not willing to have the hard conversations necessary, right? To keep things on point.

Kate: Yeah, and it’s a difficult conversation and holding someone accountable and shaming someone. Two very different things. 100 percent Holding someone accountable is just, you promised or you said you would do something and you haven’t.

There’s no like, You’re a bad human because you did that. It’s just, you know, I’m holding you accountable and you haven’t delivered.

Eric: Because in the workplace that’s built in or ought to be. Although a lot of our work is helping [00:10:00] businesses actually hold their people to account and hold leadership to account.

Cause that’s a two way street. Cause there’s a lot, again, there’s a culture almost of letting each other off the hook and everybody’s upset with each other and blaming each other and. When you play the blame game, you give up the power to change, right? Like you just really mess things up. The difference is in your personal life that you, you, I can’t hold someone accountable unless they invite me to do so for me to assume I could hold something accountable and I’ve had people like that in my life who felt like they needed to speak into my life when they’ve not been invited to.

And that’s in many ways of violation. It’s just not, it’s not okay. Right. Unless they’re calling me out on something that I’ve done really wrong, then of course, that’s a, that’s being confronted with something that needs to be addressed, but holding someone to account, you can only do that personally if you’ve been invited to

Rob: do so.

So let’s talk again about, to your point, we, we, and we’re going to all through this conversation today, jump from the, how we live in a [00:11:00] community of holding one another accountable to the. To personal accountability, self accountability. It’s two sides of the same coin. They are, exactly. So it’s, it’s impossible to not kind of flip that over from time to time.

But let’s talk about how accountability has shaped our lives. What, what’s one of the ways that it’s shaped your life?

Kate: Well, yeah. Do you wanna go? I’m looking at right at you. He’s looking, looking at you. Well, I think it’s interesting ’cause when I wa I, when I was reading this question, I was like, that’s so interesting.

But when I was younger, like I, it was very, you’re so young now. I know when I was like, how to be younger? Young, young.

All: Oh God.

Kate: But it was really. hard to be accountable. It was the blame game, right? Like part of being able to hold yourself personally accountable is growth. You have to do the work to, to, to under, right.

It was way easier back then to blame. What I find now as it’s evolved is blaming people is exhausting. It’s more exhausting for me now than to actually take personal accountability. I find taking personal accountability and. Ownership is [00:12:00] freeing. I find it the opposite than I did when I was young, but that’s also tied into doing the work and doing personal growth and knowing who you are and understanding that by taking accountability, I’m not, it’s not like, okay, maybe I did something wrong.

Maybe that’s what the accountability, it doesn’t make me a horrible. person. And often those are intertwined. And when you’re young, you, you think it’s you did something wrong, right? There’s that shame thing that I just talked about. So I think as you get older, you’re like, Oh, okay, like maybe I didn’t deliver on something.

It doesn’t make me less than it doesn’t make me less worthy. It doesn’t make me less of a person Because you’re looking

Wendy: at it more with an open mind and life experience certainly helps be able to shape that. I know for me, it’s, it has shaped me personally and professionally from my wellness journey to my career.

And, and really taking, you know, I’ll use the radical self acceptance, you know very much overweight, unhealthy, you know, over a decade ago. Well, I’m the one that made those choices. You know, I’m the one that has to change. I’m not happy in my marriage. You know, [00:13:00] I’m the one that needs to make that decision to, you know, to, to find happiness.

I’m not happy in my job, you know, or I want to do other things. I’m the one that needs to make those choices. So I feel like it’s been an evolution of reflection and accountability and, and hard decisions over the course of the last decade.

Rob: I like how you said that because that’s for me. I mean, very much accountability was always shame and guilt and what you did wrong.

Whereas my shift in how I think about accountability now, accountability is so freeing is what accountability says is I have control, right? I have control over the, I make, I get to make the choices. I get to make the decisions. I get to choose to do the hard thing, whatever that is, it’s, I have the control to do that.

And what an empowering and freeing place to be to recognize that you really do have control. You have accountability over your life and the choices you make.

Eric: That’s right. And you, you drew the distinction earlier, like it’s, I don’t think you can do [00:14:00] accountability right if you’re unclear or foggy on what you can control and what you can’t because often, I think we often take responsibility for things that are not.

ours to own. Right. Like you think of, I think of the times in my life that I blamed myself and held myself to account for things that weren’t even my responsibility, but somehow I was owning them. And that can be very, very self defeating. But when you’re clear on what do I, what am I responsible for and what am I responsible to?

And that’s a very, very important distinction to make. Then you can truly, I think. Embrace what accountability can bring to you. For me, I think there’s been it’s shown up in many different seasons in my life in different ways, both good and bad mixed bag. But I still remember one of the most fundamental shifts for us.

And, and it’s now something I recommend for every single one of my clients is when I came to my two business partners, you being one of them years ago and saying, Hey, we’re kind of running this as a headless monster. There’s really no one that’s holding anyone to account here. And as [00:15:00] a result, There’s parts of the business that are lagging behind, and we implemented yearly performance evaluations from the owners where we sat down and evaluated each other’s performance just like we would for a team member.

And I remember that was awkward. It was uncomfortable, but there was an accountability now to say we’re holding ourselves to the same. level of accountability that we expect everybody else in our organization. So good. And in so many organizations that I serve, when you think of senior leadership, again, we think of the business owners who are saying, I wish my people were more accountable.

I say then lead the way. Yeah. Hold yourself to account. I get it. It might be a more complex to do that if you’re a solitary business owner, but this is where getting external feedback, being part of some kind of peer group getting coaching to give feedback and really help you hold yourself to the same standard that you’re hoping

Rob: to

Eric: hold your people.

Rob: And again, it’s It’s amazing when I am, when I’m speaking at an event on this is the topic. When I asked the question, I’ll say, okay, we can start, [00:16:00] you know, we may not have time to cover everything. So what would you like to cover first personal accountability or how to hold other people accountable?

Always go to psych. percent of people will. I’ve never had anybody. That’s the easy one, isn’t it? And it’s, and, and my comment will always be great. Thank you very much. I’m starting with personal accountability anyway, because, because until you’re willing to hold yourself accountable, you can’t hold others accountable.

It’s, it’s very difficult to you, you kind of alluded to this. And I, one of the things we often will introduce to business owners early into the conversations and coaching with them is this concept of above the line and below the line thinking, maybe walk us through a little bit of what we mean by that.

Eric: Yeah. That’s not our model. I forget where we got it. from, but below the line, above the line is a great way to check in with yourself. Think of think of a big magic line right down the middle above it is what we call leadership behavior. A leader takes responsibility. A leader holds himself accountable.

A leader owns the problem and fixes the problem and pushes for solutions. [00:17:00] A leader mobilizes people to into forward movement. That’s leadership type behavior, right? Below the line is what we call victim behavior. This is playing the blame game. This is passing the buck. It’s not my fault. There’s nothing I can do.

I’m really helpless in this situation. Those types of that type of mentality keeps you trapped in, and, and one of the ways we define it is you act both selfish and helpless when you’re in that victim mentality. Again, we’re not talking about true victims of trauma here. We’re talking about a mindset, a victim mindset that keeps you trapped.

And, and so We often use it with our leaders to say when, when we feel there, perhaps they are acting below the line. We’ll say, well, where would you put yourself right now on this issue? And it’s amazing how they’ll realize, Hey, I dipped below the line here and listen, dipping below the line, guilty as charged, we all, it’s, I don’t think you ever live fully above the line.

I think the goal is. Can I live above the line more of the time because this is where the magic happens down here. Again, I’ll say it again. I [00:18:00] forget the author who wrote it, but when you blame others, you give up your power to change. When you own the situation, you own the transformation and there’s nothing but possibility and potential.

What would you guys

Rob: add to that?

Wendy: Well, you know, going back to just being very open minded to realizing what you can control, what you can’t control. So while the, you know, in whatever situation in your life whatever you go through, the wound may not be your fault, but how you choose to heal from it and move on absolutely is your responsibility.

All: And

Wendy: nobody else can, you know, we’re very quick to be like, again, you know, that’s not my fault and I’m hurt by this person or this action or this whatever. Okay, that might not have been your fault, but how are you going to move on from that? And that’s, that’s only your responsibility. And to take that responsibility, the only way you can do that is having that self reflection and that personal accountability.

Yeah.

Kate: I mean, I don’t have a lot to add other than you get to choose in that moment. Like you, you, you’re choosing whether you’re above the line or below the line, maybe not like fully [00:19:00] consciously, but ultimately that’s a choice. You’re choosing how you’re showing up. You’re choosing how you react. And I know a lot of times when we use that word choose, people are like, but I’m not choosing it’s happening to me.

And it’s like, well, no, you’re, you’re choosing to react this way or I don’t have a choice. Right. Well you have a show on his, you always, always have a

Rob: choice, right? Yeah. And that’s where always have a choice. You know, I long before we ever introduced, and again to your point, it’s not our model, but wherever, wherever we first saw it was the above the line, below line.

It was, it was some I heard from as a child, my mom would say, you know, you are Vic, our victims and there are overcomers. You choose which one you are in.

Eric: Mm-hmm. My

Rob: mom was a great example of somebody who had all the reason in the world to be a victim.

Eric: Right.

Rob: And yet. In everything, she owned her life. She owned and made the choices for herself to better herself, to better her kids.

She was determined to break the cycle of all of the damage that we saw in, in other generations of the Dale family. It was not going to continue through this. All of that [00:20:00] stuff came out of choosing, making the choice to live above the line, to have that leadership mindset. All of those things are so critical.

Eric: But let’s face it, like we live in a generation at a time where accountability is probably under the greatest scrutiny that it’s been in a very, very long time when public major public figures get away with. With all kinds of crime and, and behavior that is unbecoming and get a complete pass. It’s no wonder that society is becoming cynical about the whole thing.

But regardless of what’s happening in the world around us We have to choose again what kind of life we want to live and how we’re going to show up. And the more, you know, we just did two shows on how to start your year strong. And again, some great ahas in those conversations. I think for all of us as we were exploring different ways of framing.

Starting the new year versus the way it’s traditionally done. And I think this [00:21:00] is an amazing follow up topic to those because regardless of how you choose to enter the new year or what intentions you set, the only person that can truly help keep you on course is you. Yeah. Right. And, and so leveling up on the personal accountability side will yield amazing results for you.

Kate: 100%.

Eric: The more we move away from fault finding, from blaming, from passing the buck, from letting ourselves off the hook. Again, a lot of those things can masquerade as grace and self acceptance, but sometimes all they are is we’re using that as an excuse not to hold ourselves to something hard. And when you do hard shit, You become stronger, right?

So I think we could do more hardship.

Rob: So you talk about, you mentioned it a minute ago that we all sometimes dip below that line, right? Like there, we’re not all, ideally you’re always way above it, right? Yeah, but we do dip. I go for a dip. You go for a dip, you go for a dip into victim and then we get back to the what are some signs for you?

What, [00:22:00] what are some things that you notice that’s will be like, they’re like, I thought we were talking about what

Eric: are the signs when you’re doing it? The check engine

Rob: lights. That’s not the question? No, no, no. When I’m doing you. What’s, what’s your check engine light? That changes the answer. When it goes on, what does, what, what’s happening that you know, that all of a sudden you’re like, Oh, I’m dipping below the line.

Kate: I, I know the second I’m making excuses for my behavior or I’m, I’m pointing the finger like those are two easy resets for me when I start saying, you know, I, I’m so mindful of the language, like not you made me feel right. I feel this way. The second I slip into like, you made me feel that, that blaming piece.

I know instantly that I am below the line. I just, I know that I’m showing up. I’m not holding myself accountable. I’m very quickly moving into a space of I’m reacting this way because of something you did or, or. Something happens and all my fault. Well, all the language that goes off, I know instantly for me.

And that’s when I’m like, Oh, okay. What’s going [00:23:00] on.

Eric: What is that?

Kate: Mine is so

Eric: similar. Like when I become, when I noticed myself becoming overly critical and closed off. And by that, I mean, I start to evaluate the situation based on what I think the other person ought to be doing versus what I’m doing. And I think we, I think I do that when I was reflecting on this question because it justifies my position.

All: And

Eric: I think when we become critical of others in that fashion, it’s a form of victim mentality. Yes. Because what we’re doing is we’re, we’re not holding ourselves to a standard. We’ve shifted the focus to somebody else. And, and that’s really a shell game is what that is. We are, we are moving away from saying, Hey, whatever this person is doing, that’s under their control, but I’m choosing to focus on what they’re doing versus what.

how I’m showing up. So in many ways, it’s a bit of an escape, right? The other one is when I say when I lose curiosity and start to having a more closed mindset around an issue, I know I’m dipping below the line. I’m probably passing the buck. I’m probably interesting. Yeah. So critical, [00:24:00] critical, critical, like not good, critical thinking, criticism of others and closed mindedness are probably my two biggest.

Wendy: Interesting.

Eric: Yeah.

Wendy: For me, it’s, it’s some of my personal behavior. So I sulk . I, I do, I, I become,

Kate: well, you know, you’re owning it. I become That’s great accountability. I become su

Wendy: and I become cynical. Mm-hmm. And I start to choose. to do anything else but what I’m supposed to be doing in terms of being accountable.

So I’ll make excuses on things that I, you know, I’ll, I’ll go, you know, sort my Tupperware. I take my, my, right, instead of I need to take accountability. to fix whatever, right. And I’ll, and I’ll make all these excuses, which, which, you know, procrastination,

Eric: Tupperware maneuver.

Rob: Yeah, that’s going to be down below.

What are some tactics to avoid personal accountability? We talked

Eric: about decluttering and how, how great that can be [00:25:00] decluttering your physical space, decluttering your emotions, like getting rid of the noise. But sometimes like we are our behavior. That in one way could be so healthy as an escape running something as opposed to running.

Yeah. And

Wendy: we laugh. Right. Because he’ll be like, how are you? And I’ll be like, I’m fine. And then it’d be like, what are you doing? Everything but what I’m supposed to do, every

Eric: man listening to this show, when, when your significant other says she’s fine, she’s not.

Rob: Yeah. And, and you’re an idiot if you think she is.

Oh, good. You’re fine. Oh, you’re fine. Good. Carry on. Jack. Beginning of the end, right there. Yeah. You’re sleeping on the couch that night. But it’s interesting. We all kind of really answered that similar. It’s the language. Yeah. Yeah. And language is It’s such a an indicator of where we are on that line.

It’s such an indicator of how we’re doing when it comes to accountability the language we use, the way we talk to ourselves, the way we talk to others, what we think. All of those are going to be [00:26:00] components as soon as you start looking into where you’re focused on the external rather than the internal, chances are you’re, you’re stepping below the line.

Eric: Let me just jump back quickly to the responsible for, responsible to, cause I think that is such powerful language. I am responsible, and each of us around this table is responsible for our own actions, decisions, emotions, reactions, choices, right? We are respon nobody can do those things for us. We are responsible for that.

But I am not responsible, nor are you, for anyone else’s choices, actions, emotions. choices, right? And it’s, that’s where we get into trouble. If I think I’m responsible for, and I think that’s where, when I get critical, when I get closed minded, is I’m starting to take responsibility for something is not, it’s not, that’s not mine to own.

So rather than holding myself to greater account and allowing whatever situation that’s frustrating me to be fuel for growth and transformation, say, Oh, I wonder what is that? I wonder if I do that. I wonder if that’s something I need to work on and how do I [00:27:00] want to respond to that? I shift the focus and by shifting the focus again, I lose the opportunity to evolve.

Now we’re not, we’re not always in 100 percent growth mode, but I think the more we lean into being conscious of the language and you talk, I loved how you were just very honest there because who doesn’t sulk, who doesn’t get sullen, right? Who

Kate: doesn’t Tupperware it out?

Eric: So I don’t, listen, my Tupperware drawer, I love her.

Fuck my Tupperware drawer. I will never touch that. I don’t care how that looks, but what do I do? My default, my Tupperware maneuver is I dive into work, right? Like, so we all have places that we will escape to, to avoid facing the facts. But I think the more we can get present to what is this situation calling for in terms of transformation in me, this frustration is stirring and rattling my cage for a reason.

Rather than getting, for me, critical closed, what if I, if I got curious again, if I, and stayed open, then the possibilities there are endless, right? And I think, so I think there’s many layers, but that [00:28:00] responsibility piece, again, I know these are two different words, concepts, but they really are two, they’re, they’re, they’re pretty jointed.

They have two sides of the same coin.

Rob: The, the I something else you said a few minutes ago that I want to lean into a bit is the inviting others. Into right. The importance of where that distinction between people just coming in versus part of personal accountability, I think is feedback and, and the invitation for feedback.

Talk to what’s your sense with that? Why is feedback so important?

Kate: Like we were just talking about this the other day. I can’t remember what we were talking about, but it was like, it was

Eric: obviously very important. It

Kate: was very important. But you said to me, well, can you hold me, hold me accountable to that?

And you said that I’m ever saying, okay, But are you really okay with me holding you accountable? Because it’s one thing to say, hold me accountable. And then when, when you ask the person to do it and they do it, and you’re kind of like, right? Like that. So that check in to almost to be like, like, it’s great.

You’ve given me permission to hold you accountable, but you really, really have to [00:29:00] let me hold you accountable. There has to be a willingness there too. Yeah. Cause

Eric: you can’t say the words and not, and yet I can guarantee that the first time, because there’ll be opportunities for sure for you to hold me accountable on this issue the first time you will, I won’t like it.

No. I don’t have to like it. No, you won’t. In the moment. I don’t have to like it. Yeah. Because again, you’re, you’re, you’re allowing somebody else. to be that conscience that extra conscience in your life. And even my own conscience, I don’t like at times. Right. So so part of, I think for those that are on the holding accountable side, if you get asked to hold someone accountable again, I think that needs to be approached with grace.

I think there needs to, some people love that power over others. And I think you don’t want to invite that kind of person to hold you accountable because They, it’s more about control for them than growth. But if you’ve got someone who’s really invested in trying to help you, or you’re that person who’s been invited to help, I think you just need to be prepared.

There’s going to be times and moments where you’re [00:30:00] not liked.

Rob: Yeah. Yeah. You, you’ve said to me before again about the notion of, because feedback is so important. In your world, and the importance again of that is you want to choose the right people. A hundred percent. You do.

Wendy: And the best part about feedback is typically what we don’t want to hear.

And so it’s, it’s, it’s a huge part of choosing your circle and being really intentional about who you are seeking and asking feedback from. Because. you know, we all love hearing about the things that we’re good at. And, you know, I mean, of course, we’re humans. We like to feel good, but validation is a thing.

Validation is a thing. It totally is. And so is ego and not ego in an egotistical way, but just, we like to feel like we’re good. But in terms of growth and being accountable to help us get better, I don’t want to hear the things that I’m good at. You know, I want somebody to be able to Call me out and call me out on it.

And to your point, Eric, [00:31:00] I know I’m not going to like it and I might sulk.

Eric: I might get sullen, but

Wendy: it’s what I, but it’s what. I want to hear when I, when I kind of take the personal emotion out of it and which I’m really good at doing. Yes, baby.

Rob: You are. That felt like a Tupperware maneuver. It was. Wow, look at all this Tupperware.

Yeah.

Wendy: But yeah, I think it’s, it’s, you know, when you separate the emotion out of what, what you are getting out of it, it’s, it’s, it’s a game changer.

Rob: Yeah, absolutely. I’m one of the companies, I’m coaching their leadership team. And a few months ago, we had a session where we talked about some difficult things and I said, well, let’s, is there anybody willing to be kind of the guinea pig here?

You know, that we can, we’re going to. kind of challenge you on. And so one of the guys, yeah, I’ll do it. I’m open to anything. I don’t care. And you know, go ahead. And so people gave some feedback into where they are strong and maybe some areas that they could work on and improve. And what was [00:32:00] interesting, I had the follow up meeting was just a few days ago and we’re sitting with his team and, you know, talked about what are some highlights and everything like that.

And he had put his hand, he said, you know, he said, I know, and some of you experienced it firsthand is. I, I treated you like shit for the few days after that meeting, because I was mad at what you said. And I realized I wasn’t as ready to hear it as I thought I was in that. And it was just a really interesting conversation, how he started the process and came back to again, this idea that I chose.

I made the decision to invite Yeah. These people to bring, bring feedback. Yeah. So it’s on me now to receive that feedback and to choose that. And I also like what you said about this, the idea of that it’s an honor when somebody does invite you in. Yeah. It’s, it’s an honor. It’s a sacred trust. It’s sacred, sacred.

Treat it as such. Yeah. So don’t, don’t be flippant with it. Don’t be condescending. Don’t, don’t, don’t be a critical when you’re providing that feedback. Recognize that. Be

Eric: honest and straight. Let’s face it. In our [00:33:00] coaching work, like a big part of why business owners seek us out in our coaching business is to provide feedback, is to provide accountability, to help them follow through.

And you can always tell the leaders that are. actually ready for it, but the ones that aren’t right as soon as you start to apply a little bit of pressure they, you can tell if someone is really open to it or not. I was talking about even how business owners need to set up a structure within their business for feedback.

And one important aspect I forgot to mention in terms of, I mentioned peer groups, I mentioned getting a coach. Those are some ways you can hold yourself accountable. When you do some kind of feedback process with your team. And if you, by the way, if you’re a business owner and you’re not doing evaluations, performance check ins, if you’re not giving your team and not just those, I think the annual performance evaluation is hated by both parties.

Yeah, I agree. Leaders hate doing it staff hate, and part of it is because we’ve. We’ve, we’ve made it something it wasn’t meant to be. I think if we gave our teams regular feedback on an ongoing basis, more regular [00:34:00] basis, people want to know they’re doing a good job. They want to know they’re on point and they want to know if they’re not.

And when you hold that feedback back as a business owner, you may think you’re doing them a service when in actuality, you’re not. You’re, you’re actually adding to their stress. You’re adding to their concerns. You’re adding to their. confusion. If you want clarity, feedback is the way to go. But if in whatever system, a healthy system of feedback in an organization is that feedback flows both ways.

Even as we are giving employees feedback, employees are giving us feedback. And by that, I don’t mean some bullshit survey. That you distribute once a year as, as an act and get everybody to fill out and you never do anything with it. Right. It just like, Hey, I checked the box because let me tell you, employees see through that shit really, really,

Kate: really, really, really fast.

Rob: Brene Brown talks about yeah, we all were all fans there. So it talks about owning the narrative and this idea that we are able to write our own story. [00:35:00] What does that say to you?

Eric: Oh, we talk about that on the show all the time.

Wendy: I think

Eric: you you ended the last show talking about writing your own narrative.

Wendy: Yeah. And not, not letting anybody else hold the pen and also reminding yourself that if it’s a pen or a pencil, you have eraser and you have whiteout. Yeah. Like it’s okay to erase things, change things. And. You know, the whiteout is really messy though. It is. But if you have that little tape runner thing, it’s very satisfying.

Eric: Oh yeah. I’ve never, I always use the brush one and the brush one, I ended up with a fucking mess. Like it just was, I’d be like, throw the paper out, start over. Do you know, I need to say, I need to take coaching from Wendy. Is

Wendy: that what it

Eric: is? Sorry. I keep my

Wendy: whiteout tape in my Tupperware drawer.

Eric: But

Wendy: I think we get consumed by people’s opinions by letting them.

Hold the pen.

Kate: Yeah. And I think, you know, she talks so much about vulnerability and courage and when you’re able to let go of shame and your fear and truly sink into it and really sink into it, which I use far too often, we’ve now realized, [00:36:00] but it’s really, you’re painting your own story and you’re painting your own path.

And it’s what it’s, what’s true to you. And that’s like, I think you holding yourself accountable to what you really want. You’re a true story. Maybe

Eric: we need to change the word accountability to authoring. Right? Like, be, be, think, personal author. Like, I am authoring my life because when, when an author is creating a work of art, when they’re writing that novel, when they’re writing that book, yes, they may be seeking, they are often seeking external sources of both inspiration and information to feed the creation of that thing, but ultimately, Whose name goes on the jacket of the book, right, is not the name they may in the introduction give credit to all these other people, but ultimately, because no one is an island to themselves.

No one is a self made person. I think that’s a bullshit myth that needs to be debunked. We are self made when we take us. Ownership of our lives, but there’s so many influences that helped shape that. But maybe it’s personal authoring over personal

Rob: domain. [00:37:00]

Eric: Yeah. There you go. Yeah. And it’s okay. I buddy, I trademarked it before

Rob: the show.

Yeah, I, that’s, I think that’s absolutely great. So okay. Let’s sink into some practical steps for somebody who is ready. They’re like, okay, I’m ready to start to embrace. Accountability authoring my life. I’m ready to do this. What would be a first step that someone could take?

Eric: Stop blaming.

Stop making excuses. And I say that without criticism, but man, the longer you blame, the longer you make excuses, the longer you look and are waiting. for the right circumstances, the right situation, the right people. You’re going to be waiting your whole life. It was Henry David Thoreau who said most men go to the grave with the song still in them when 70 percent of the population, according to Keegan and Leigh’s work on the cell, the socialized mind.

Over 70 percent of the population never move beyond brain [00:38:00] development of I must fit in. I exist to fit in. They spend their entire life bending to the shoulds and woulds and aftos and musts and supposed life blueprints and whatever else. That’s a sad reality, right? When we stop blaming and we start taking responsibility for our lives, you don’t have it all figured out, but if you feel you’re ready, what is the next step you need to take to start moving in a more self authoring direction?

I love that. Yeah, and

Kate: you, like you get to Choose your reactions. And we touched on that, but you, you get to choose how you show up. You get to choose your reaction to something. And that for a lot of people is really the beginning of that accountability. It’s getting curious. Okay. All of a sudden being like, Oh, why am I reacting this way?

Why am I pointing the finger? Why? Right. And getting down that self awareness that we talked about. And then truly, truly knowing that in that moment when you come at it with like anger or fear, [00:39:00] you’re choosing that. So getting, just get present to what what is happening to you in that moment I think is, is so powerful.

Wendy: Yeah. I think there’s a balance between, you know, when. Thinking that you’re ready and then actually moving forward. So a lot of us spend time getting ready to get ready, you know, I had that same phrase.

Eric: I was about to

Wendy: get ready to get ready. So like use your pen and start writing no matter what. The water will not flow until the faucet is turned on.

Eric: Oh, there’s common sense. As I always say, the water will not flow until the faucet is turned on.

Rob: Right. I’ve heard that. I think, you know, even just on a practical way as well, you got to track this shit. Right. Just like everything else, if I’m setting accountability goals. I said, I’m looking at Aries and saying, okay, I’m going to start to hold myself accountable.

How am I going to track? How am I going to, what am I going to use? What are the metrics I’m going to use to determine if I’m on track or off? Yeah. And some of those are the [00:40:00] practical. Okay. We, we always are. We try to be as vulnerable as we can. We try to be able to share. We go first. All of this stuff on this show.

Yeah. I thought this was a sports podcast. It’s new. Yeah. It’s, it’s the, it’s the no, no. That’s it. Oh, that was Steve. Hey Steve! Hey! Hey! He’s still awake. One’s still awake. . What is, what is one area that you struggle with accountability in?

Kate: Oh, as a mom, like, I could just like, it’s just like instantly for me.

I know where it is as, as a mom, it’s the one area that is, it’s just the, it tugs at my heartstrings. It’s the hardest for me to, like, I can, I can own my shit at work. I’m good. Oh, yeah. I, oh yeah. I didn’t deliver that. Right. I pro I have no problem. It’s like. Knowing that I potentially let my kid down is like in my head.

That’s I, I’m just like, Oh, I can’t own that. I like totally forgot that you had practiced today and I didn’t drive you. That to me is like, cause it’s loaded with shame and it’s loaded with that. I’ve just let my kid down. That for me [00:41:00] is bar none. Yeah. The

Wendy: hardest. And tying into the mom thing, the overcompensating.

Yeah. Right? Like as a, as a divorced mom and not seeing my kids all the time, it’s the overcompensating of I need to do more. I need to do more. I need to hold off. And until I, right. So it’s almost like letting them kind of dictate everything and, and feeling like, I need to take ownership and realize that I need to be feeling worthy enough to meet myself where I’m at and to not feel the need to overcompensate.

I’m still working through that daily.

Eric: Yeah, I would say so as a dad, certainly the area of that has been the most difficult for me is my children or not my children, but parenting as a whole is where I’ve been felt probably the most vulnerable and have over rotated and owned and felt responsible for all kinds of things that weren’t actually mine to own.

And that caused all kinds of problems so much so that in my work with with Sherry Dr. [00:42:00] Sherry, this is an area that we continue to revisit on a regular basis. And I’m going to post these in the living richly nation. in the next couple of days. But I came up with a series of, I’m a big fan of affirmation work.

And especially affirmations that are directed at unseating lies that you’ve bought into for a very long time that we, we, we convince ourselves of certain stories. We can convince ourselves of new ones. We

All: can

Eric: unmake lies and create new realities. And so I’ve created this list of good enough dad affirmations that have been extremely helpful.

Yeah. That have, that are helpful.

Rob: And I’m sure if we were to poll the listeners that one of the areas that most people seem to struggle with when it comes to personal accountability is around family dynamics, right? Parenting, whatever that is, but it’s, it seems to be a big area that we really struggle with for sure on this one.

100%. I’m

Kate: sure we’re not alone. No, I think a lot [00:43:00] of listeners

Rob: say the same thing. I think we’re serious. We’re almost out of time, but, but I want to just one other one. When we fail, when there are setbacks what would you say is an encouragement to somebody who says, man, you know what? I, I, I, I set myself up there.

I was owning my shit, all of this. And then. I messed up.

Eric: So, I think, like, we need to stop talking in terms of failure. Failure is the failure to learn. That is the only failure. The only true failure is I learned nothing from what happened. Screwing up. Dropping the ball, going the wrong direction, making a bad decision, falling short of what you, those are not failures, those are learning moments, and we use them to beat ourselves up, as opposed to use them as stepping stones, to say, okay, I didn’t show up the way I would like to there, so I’m going to own that, part of personal accountability, is, is owning your shit.

And if you’ve [00:44:00] got to make reparations and if you’ve got apologies to make and yeah, go make them, go fix it. Right. But don’t, don’t take the rest of the energy then and beat the shit out of yourself with it. Take the energy and channel to say, what did I learn about myself? What did I learn about that relationship?

What did I learn about how I’m showing up? Those are incredible lessons that we often. Leave on the table. So much potential gets left on the table because we are too eager to go to shame, guilt, and beating ourselves up.

Kate: Yeah, it’s, I mean, I was going to say the same thing. It’s a find the learning opportunity.

And a great example recently was something else happened and I was in like a heightened heightened state and my daughter and I just had a miscommunication about where to go pick her up and she was on the bus and I’m like, I’m waiting at DQ and I had wet hair and I had rescheduled. scheduled everything so I could go get her.

So I was just annoyed, but I was really annoyed about something else. And so I raised my voice. I was like, didn’t show up in a way that I was really proud of, right? You talk about playing, well, it’s your fault. You should have told me, but language [00:45:00] I never use. And then we’re, well, no, never is a strong word too.

And as, as we’re driving home, we’re in an argument and then she has to go somewhere else really quickly. So we get back in the car after she’s gone home and we’re at the, we’re turning left. I have five minutes with her in the car, not even, and I’m like, I said, I’m really sorry. She’s like. For what? I said, I should like for raising my voice.

I don’t like how I spoke to you. It was not okay. And she and I remember she just looked at me. She’s like, thanks. And then she’s like, I’m sorry, too. I’m like, okay. And then we just went on. And it was a it was a moment of like me owning it because I really like, I didn’t like how I showed up. I didn’t like that’s not it goes against my values on how I showed up.

And frankly, she really miscommunications happen all the time. But that’s such a great me. And the learning from that is like, Oh, I get to, you know, have those conversations with my daughter. I can apologize and we can move forward. It’s a learning opportunity. Yeah.

Eric: A hundred percent.

Wendy: Yeah. I think the only other thing I would add is just recognizing that when you do have setbacks, [00:46:00] your, your wings will still open so that you can fly, but.

trusting that you’re not going to crash and die, but that you’ll probably get bruised on the way down, or you’ll probably maybe break a bone and that’s okay. You heal and you, you learn and you move on. And I think it kind of goes back to that all or nothing mentality on, you know, setbacks are going to happen.

They’re not often road closures, but more like speed bumps. And so, you know, navigating through that is key. All right,

Rob: all right. Lightning round or perhaps molasses round, depending on the episode and how we do and how quick and go we do this. One habit, one tool one action that’s our listeners can take right now to begin to hold themselves accountable.

Kate: Reflection. I think reflection is, is everything to be able to, you know, in that example I just gave, to be able to reflect on it and be like, oh, and you can’t necessarily in the [00:47:00] heat of the moment, you’re not seeing in colors. I like to see it. I’m, I’m seeing in black and white. Yeah. And so when you step out and you take time, it might be later that night, the next day, but if you take time to reflect on what happened, I think that’s everything because then you start to look at it differently.

I think reflection is.

Eric: Yeah, I would, and at the risk of sounding like a broken record, I think I’ve recommended this on the lot. This’ll be the third show I recommended on set up a weekly meeting with yourself to do just that. Right. Put something in your calendar, a meeting with me, where you’re going to check in with yourself.

If you can, if you can stack that into a ritual that you already have established, where you sit down, have a cup of coffee and relax, and you can inject a 30 minute. Meeting with yourself to check in on how you’re doing. Am I following through? Am I on track? And if not, what’s that next step I need to take to get back on track again?

Reflection doesn’t need to feel like a burden. It doesn’t need to be this big mystery. For some, it looks a certain way, but. For, for many of us, it’s just that check [00:48:00] under the hood. How, how, how are things going? If the, and especially if the engine light keeps going off, you want to make sure you look under the hood, there’s a problem, right?

Don’t wait until there’s a problem. Be proactive, not reactive. Yeah.

Wendy: Yeah. Mine was tied into, to both of what you said and also finding somebody, an accountability partner and, and have, and, and be open to just what we were talking about before about having that feedback be. Where somebody can call you out and in a way that it’s safe for you to accept that, but it’s also going to be a moment of growth for you at the same time.

Yeah. So

Rob: I would, I totally agree. Find that accountability partner, find that community that you can belong to people that will build you up. that will encourage and lift you up, but also hold you accountable when they’re invited in. And one of the things we want to encourage you, if you are new to listening to this podcast, or maybe you’ve been a follower of the Living Richly podcast for a while, but maybe haven’t engaged in the [00:49:00] nation to go and check it out.

You can those links on our website that you can find to be able to to join the Living Richly Facebook group, an incredible group, a community of people. Who will take the journey with you. You can raise your hand and say, I need help. And there will be people there that will respond.

Absolutely. Yeah. So we encourage you to do that. You can find out all of that information as well as all the show notes about all of those things that we’ve talked about today at our website, livingrichly. me. So encourage you to check that out. If you liked this episode, if this has spoken to you, why don’t you share it out with some other people?

Make a comment on it. We love hearing from our, our, the nation and. As they share out some of these things with us as well. So until next time, get out there and live your best life.