The New Expectations Leaders Can’t Ignore Anymore

The New Expectations Leaders Can’t Ignore

Steve: [00:00:00] We have more than one tool in the toolbox. Yes. Emotionally, right? Yeah. So to sometimes to that leader, they’re a hammer and everything’s a nail. It’s like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang.

Eric: I think what the world is, is, is leaning into more and more is the emotionally intelligent leader.

Rob: There were a lot of people that believed that you only hired a coach when you were in.

Eric: Right.

Rob: Whereas that shift today to where most pe most business owners and leaders understand the value of a coach.

Eric: Hi, and welcome to the Living Richley podcast. We’re so glad that you’ve joined us again this week for a really important leadership conversation. On the leadership expectations that leaders just can’t ignore anymore. The the reality is the world has changed and often leaders are still playing, uh, by an old playbook and we gotta catch up.

And so last time we were together, I’m back here with a course, my regular co-host, Rob. Hey Rob. [00:01:00]

Rob: Hey.

Eric: Good to have you here, brother.

Rob: Good to have you.

Eric: And so good to have Steve with us again, all the way from Calgary. Another, uh, fellow coach on the Rhapsody team. Great to have you here.

Steve: It’s great to be back again.

Eric: Yeah. It’s so much fun to do these together. I mean, we work together in the trenches every day, but to be able to pull away from that and have these kinds of conversations are so good. And the last time we got together, yeah, we talked about, um, the, the, the things leaders tell us behind closed doors,

Rob: confessions of a leader,

Eric: the confessions of a leader.

A lot of the, the trends and the struggles and the challenges that we see leaders facing. Today’s conversation is really focused about where we see leadership going. Uh, what are some things that are happening now, shifting now already in process, or will be shifting soon, uh, that really impact, uh, the future of leadership and what leaders really as the title of the episode goes, can’t ignore anymore, really need to start paying attention to.

So, Rob, let me start by throwing this question your way. Uh, what’s something that leaders are expected to do now [00:02:00] that 10 years ago? Was unthinkable.

Rob: Yeah. Well, the first thing that would come to mind for me is to be emotionally available, to be willing to, uh, let their teams, their staff, uh, a little bit behind the curtain to know a little bit about themselves, about their, perhaps challenges and their insecurities be vulnerable, uh, 10 years ago.

That was for the most part, unheard of the leader was the stoic, was, was unattained, you know, detached from the team. Now you’ve gotta be right there in the trenches. They need to know that you are human, that you struggle with some of the things, same things that they do.

Eric: Yeah. And that’s not so much a strategic play, uh, so much as it’s the, uh, team members now are craving connection.

Rob: Yes.

Eric: Uh, to their leader. Uh, and they want to be connected. They want to feel seen, they want feel heard. Um, and it, uh, when you go first, when you are willing to be more human appropriately, obviously we’re not, uh, encouraging. We don’t, I’m not seeing leaders open up their entire lives to their team, but [00:03:00] there’s a level of appropriate transparency, vulnerability that really helps with that connection.

Rob: Well, and, and to go along with that, it’s, you know, you think 10 years ago now, you know, a lot of different social media. Kind of the platforms are, are younger than that. Uh, Facebook would be 10 years old. You wouldn’t think of, uh, there would be very few leaders who would be friends with their, uh, with their staff on Facebook.

Whereas today, not everyone, but more and more you certainly see that connection where people are getting an in inside view of your life.

Steve: Yeah. I’m gonna piggyback on Rob’s answer. I will say, uh, what’s shifted in 10 years is, uh, a, the requirement of a leader to name their emotional state without losing the room,

Eric: right?

Steve: Because in the last 10 years you see us the swing of the pendulum from sort of a cold, calculated distant leader who never shares anything. The pendulum swings over to this. [00:04:00] Authenticity side where you’re maybe oversharing losing the room. Uh, people aren’t trusting the strength of the leader, so it’s finding that.

I’m declaring my emotional state. I’m discouraged, I’m struggling, but I’m doing it in a way that I don’t lose the room. I, I don’t lose the team.

Eric: Yeah. I think that’s so good. And I think the, a big part of that has been the conversation around mental health. I think what we’ve seen certainly in the last 10 years.

Is a move away from this being the, the well kept secret that no one talks about, but things like burnout, anxiety, depression, uh, the things that leaders face and experience all the time, just like the rest of the population. Except again, uh, we talked about grief as a leader. We talked about a lot of the things that leaders struggle with behind closed doors.

Leaders carry so much more responsibility. The, we talked about how high this. Stakes are, uh, stake for leaders, right, in terms of their teams or organizations. Yeah. Plus they’re humans too. So they’ve got families at home and relationships and [00:05:00] personal finances and goals and dreams. All of that, uh, coalesces into what can be a, a really heavy burden to, to, to, to carry.

And what I’m really pleased to see is the o the, the greater openness in society and among the leadership community. Um, it, it used to be, you know, we looked at, uh, so many looked. To, uh, um, Silicon Valley, right? The startups of the world right in Silicon Valley and almost idolized the, uh, you know, I’d rather burnout than rust out sort of mentality.

And I think there’s a much healthier conversation happening now, um, more and more around what healthy, sustainable. Leadership looks like as opposed to the flash in the pan, uh, and burnout by the time you’re 30 years old, right? Yeah.

Rob: Well, we talk about it. Uh, even we’ve had advice from, with all of our social media posting that people wanna cheer for someone.

And the same is true of of, of team members. They, they want their leader to be somebody who has found that the pendulum is in the right spot [00:06:00] where they can, they, they’re still confident. The leadership, uh, and the, the, uh, the focus of the leader. But they also, they can cheer for them because they’re human, uh, and they see the humanness in them.

So I think that it’s a, I don’t, I think it’s wonderful that leadership has come to this. Place. I think we’re in a season right now where we’re still trying to figure out what that means. We’re right in it, uh, 10 years ago. Again, it was rarely there. Uh, and it’ll be interesting to see where that lands, where the leader can still be leading in front of the room, emotionally available, uh, but not, so I love what you said, not losing the room because it’s always, woe is me from the platform.

Right. Uh, there needs to be that fine balance. Yeah.

Steve: And think about 10 years ago was pre COVID.

Rob: Yeah. Right.

Steve: And in some ways the, our world is divided into pre COVID, COVID and post COVID. It used it used to be ad. Exactly. [00:07:00] Yeah. Completely changed. And so when we think, uh, about what life and work was like, I think it was more separated.

You had a work life and you had a, uh, personal life, uh, more distinct. There was still. Some blurriness, but COVID collided.

Rob: Yeah. Yeah,

Steve: those worlds. Uh, we talked about how, um. Working. Working from home, the lockdown, having kids in the room, destroying our homes while we’re trying to do a Zoom call.

Eric: Yep.

Steve: And all

Eric: do.

Do you still remember that that that video that went really popular, that went viral, but the guys trying to do this interview on CNN or something? Yeah. And his kid bbc, I think BBC C and his kid sneaks in the back and then you see the, his wife try to like, yeah, crawl on the ground and take the kid out of the, I mean, that was beautiful.

Those were the days, right? Those were

Steve: the days, yeah. So the carryover, someone, some might say the hangover from COVID, but the carryover from [00:08:00] from COVID that I don’t think has snapped back completely, is still a stronger blend. Of our personal world and our work world. ’cause still people, a lot of people are working from home.

Yeah. A lot of people are virtual. A lot of meetings are now, uh, zoom meetings instead of face-to-face meetings. So some of the. Carry over from what worked before COVID, uh, we, that has to be let go of the world has changed dramatically. Uh, understanding how, uh, I don’t like work life balance, but it’s such a common phrase.

People know what I mean. Like the, that that balance or that rhythm has shifted significantly. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah, big time. And it, you think of, uh, for a while there, um, with the early days of COVID and everyone being sent home to work, um, the sh the, the power shifted to the employee in many ways, right? Um, where employees were able to, uh, or I, I still remember that season, a lot of stressed out business leaders because they, they [00:09:00] want to be able to give their people more, but they’re running a business, not a charity.

And there was a lot of pressure being put on employers, uh, to, to make. Tremendous accommodations beyond sometimes what was reasonable. And all of a sudden now the price, uh, the, the cost of labor and uh, salary started to skyrocket and businesses were, um, struggling because of it. And now the shift seems to, due to the economy, post COVID, everything else, the shift has gone back into the, uh, it appears to be in the leader’s favor, uh, where it’s a little bit harder to find if you got a good job, better hang onto it.

That’s at least what’s, you know, kind of the fear out there.

Steve: Right. The, I was just on a, in a training session with a team, uh, and they are a remote team, Vancouver, uh, prince George, Toronto, and some other third location, or a

Eric: random third

Steve: location, some other location. And the conversation was still, how do we build trust and [00:10:00] connection and, uh, teamwork remotely?

Uh, again, the

Eric: virtual thing.

Steve: Yeah, the virtual world. I think that’s still a shift. That were from 10 years ago that we’re still trying to figure out. Yeah, we had some great conversations, but it felt a little bit. Like an unanswered question is, well, we can spend time and we do some games or do, but it didn’t fit.

It’s not the same as going out for drinks after work, FaceTime, or meeting in the lunchroom or whatever that might be. Uh, uh. So it’s, that’s definitely a shift that we’re still navigating.

Eric: Yeah, a hundred percent. Um, what leaders let, let, let’s shift the conversation to what leadership rules that we all grew up with and we’re very familiar with, um, that just don’t work anymore in today’s world like we’re talking about.

Outdated playbooks. Yeah. What are some of the plays in those playbooks that leaders really need to update?

Rob: I, I think for me, one of them is that, that the leader has to work harder than anybody else. Mm-hmm. Uh, the leader should be the first one in the office, the last one to leave. Even. There’s some classic movies in that where you see the, [00:11:00] the young up and comer wants to impress their boss.

So if the boss is staying to eight, they’re staying to eight, and they’re, there’s almost a, they’re trying to weight each other out. Both of them want to go home, but you don’t want to be the, you don’t want to be the first to leave. You want to be the last to leave. And I think that notion of it, it’s, it, it’s one that some still hang on to or they, they have to break out of that idea.

But it was certainly one growing up, you knew the leaders, the managers, the top people, were always gonna be the first ones in the office and the last one’s leave.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. I, I, I would say, uh, um, similar to that, outcomes. Greater than, greater than maths. They told me there’d be no math. But out outcomes are greater than time spent.

Eric: Yes.

Steve: And the the time spent fallacy. Now, especially with technology and ai, we can get a lot of outcomes faster, but still feel this. Outdated script. I remember when I first started my career, I, the person who trained me in, in some of [00:12:00] my, uh, uh, professional practices, he said, Steve, you are, you are to be the first one there.

Rob: Yeah.

Steve: In the morning before anyone else. Yeah. And you don’t leave until everyone else is gone. Then you can go home. It’s like, whoa. That is. No thank you. That’s not how, that script doesn’t work anymore. No. Yeah. Especially when we’re trying to be healthy and, and, uh, wholehearted in the way that we live our life.

That’s, so again, outcomes are greater than time spent. As long as you’re doing good work and generating the outcomes that you need for success, that’s what matters most.

Eric: And I think that. That often is born out of this misunderstanding that activity and productivity aren’t the same thing. Uh, right. And, and a lot of, uh, uh, leaders feel a need to kick up a bunch of dust and be active because again, we talked about in our last episode on leadership about there’s this guilt almost when I’m not producing.

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: Uh, so we really struggle on that front. I, I would add to that, that I think, uh, uh, definitely I believe an outdated playbook is the whole, don’t ever [00:13:00] let them see you sweat. Be the toughest person in the room. Um, there’s still, uh, often this pressure, uh, and again, we talked about that in depth in the last episode, uh, about the, the challenges that leaders don’t talk about openly, but tell us frequently in our in, in coaching sessions about what they’re facing.

Um, I think what the world is, is, is leaning into more and more is the emotionally intelligent leader, uh, the leader who can understand what’s going on in their internal world and can connect better with their team members through. Their communication, the way that they show up. Uh, it’s not about this strong front and facade.

No, I get that to sometimes you do have to have your game face on, uh, right. For your team. Yeah. Uh, so there is a moment for that. But if you’ve got your game face on all the time and they never see your real. Face. Um, then there’s a disconnect. Well, those feel distant from you. Exactly. Like, I can’t relate to that person.

No. ’cause they seem to have their shit together all the

Rob: time. [00:14:00] Goldman, uh, the, the, uh, kind of the creator emotional intelligence 2.0, uh, he has a, a great article, uh, leadership that lasts and he talks about the six leadership styles. Mm. And you know, in there, he, he, he talks about there is a place for the commanding.

The strong, that leader who is barking the orders and all of that, but it’s short lived. It’s it, it’s important in the moment. Hey, listen, if you’re in the, if you’re in your office and it’s on fire, they don’t need collaboration, right? They don’t need a leader who says, Hey, let’s all gather together in the middle of the room and discuss what we should do.

They need a leader who’s just gonna command and say, everybody outta the building now. Uh, so when there’s crisis, uh, in moments of crisis, uh, a leader needs to show up with that strength in that. But there are, there are other times they need to show up as a collaborating leader, as an encouraging leader.

And, and so that idea of emotional intelligence for leadership is. Absolutely. Uh, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a, uh, non-negotiable in today’s world, knowing when to step [00:15:00] into what style of leadership, depending on what the situation requires.

Steve: I, I’ve seen the light, the light bulb go on over an executive’s head when we do the, we use that the DISC tool.

Yeah. DISC, the DISC tool. And there’s a, an emotional intelligence EQ version of that called eq, agile eq, where there is a time for the leader to be direct. And commanding and pioneering that mindset. Uh. But we have more than one tool in the toolbox. Yes. Emotionally, right? Yeah. So to sometimes to that leader, they’re a hammer and everything’s a nail.

It’s like bang, bang, bang, bang, bang. And, and in those sessions, when that leader, the lights go on and they say, oh, there’s another option. Here, I can be empathetic, I can be listening, I can be collaborative. Uh, and, and realizing that our emotional mindset or our, our emotional tendencies are not locked in.

Yeah, they’re not set. They’re dynamic. And [00:16:00] I think that’s a really, a beautiful, uh, a way of understanding that the world is, is much more complex. And as a leader, I can adjust to the complexities of the world. Yeah.

Eric: I think. There’s a de a demand and a need. Like if we talking about how the game has changed, uh, to a hammer.

Everything’s a nail is an outdated script. That there is no one size fits all. Yeah. We, uh, as leaders, based on your personality, there are certain styles of leadership you will naturally. Just demonstrate and, and, and kind of fall into by, by, by just sheer habit. Yeah. Like it’s kind of an expression of who you are.

Steve: Yeah. I remember one, one leader when I, he, when he realized he needed to, to move his emotional energy and change it, he said, I hate that I have to soften my tone. I hate that I have to be more empathetic. I hate it was like, he was just so, and I was like, okay. That, that, that’s fine. But remember, you gotta lead your team, right?

And not everybody thinks and sees and feels the way [00:17:00] that you do. Awesome. And it was, it was a come to Jesus moment for this leader. And he’s like, oh, okay. I’m gonna learn to be more emotionally agile. And he’s, he’s been feeding back to me. It’s going better. There’s still times I snap back into my hammer mode.

Eric: Right.

Steve: Yeah. But I’m learning how to engage with different, more creative members of my team, more collaborative members of my team, more emotional members of my team, who still bring great value. Uh, but again, shifting that emotional energy is so important.

Eric: So we talk about, um, uh, you know, with the Foundry, we talk about help.

Part of my passion of working with male entrepreneurs, um, and founders, uh, is again, dudes have their real struggle when it comes to most of them when it comes to having emotional range, right? We, we joke around on the show that guys have basically two, two emotions. They have rage and chill, uh, right? And those are kind of like the two, only two acceptable, um, male emotions, uh, that a lot of guys grow up with.

So we talk about increasing their [00:18:00] emotional range. I think that’s important for leaders to do as well. But leaders can no longer. Forward, uh, to be a one trick pony. Like they, we, they need to be working on their leadership range is what we’re discussing here. Right. We, there was a great study done. They, um, um, and I’m gonna forget the source.

I’ll, I’ll try to find it for the show notes. But they, uh, they interviewed, uh, a bunch of, uh, US Army generals, like top brass. And they talked about this command and collaborate model of leadership, right? Mm-hmm. That for so long, even in the business world, which the business world, a lot of people don’t understand this, but often have mirrored the military.

Yeah. Right? Yeah. Uh, like for so long in, in business, it was just do what you’re fucking told. And it’s like, it was like the boss was the drill sergeant giving you orders. And man, if you didn’t. Or Amy didn’t line up, you’re out the door. So it was a very much command and con, like command central kind of leadership style.

And what we’ve seen o obviously over the last several decades is that leaders actually in this point in history have less power than they [00:19:00] they’ve ever had since the beginning of time. Right. Uh, there was a time, a, a great book. Um, Barb Kellerman, I think is her name, wrote The End of Leadership. Yes. And she tracks it through history.

So think of, um, uh. You know, medieval England, where if you looked at the king the wrong way off with your head, right? So leaders had all the power, people had none. Now we live in a world where that’s really flipped. Um, and leaders have less authority, power, command, power than they’ve ever had and have to learn to, to lead differently.

It’s swung. Towards collaboration, which is where it needed to go. The more successful teams I know, uh, are collaborative teams, but even there, there’s often an extreme. There can be an extreme where a leader hides out in what I call cop out collaboration, right? Yeah. Where they kind of abdicate the throne or abdicate leadership altogether and, and, and, and look to their team to make all the decisions.

So that’s not what we’re talking about here, but this study. Uh, talked to these generals and said like, if collaboration’s on one end of the spectrum, control and [00:20:00] command is on the other, what’s the best style? And almost every single one of them answered.

Steve: It depends.

Eric: It depends. Yeah. It depends on the situation.

If we’re in the middle of a battle engagement, we’ve been taken by surprise by the enemy. Uh, there’s no time for collaboration. We’re gonna start just giving orders about what needs to be done. And any collaboration that happens is fast, it’s quick. It’s not by committee. Uh, right. Whoever’s got the best idea, we just go with it because that’s what the situation calls for.

Uh, but in all other situations, if we’re, if we’re trying to lead like this all the time, um, it’s problematic. Yeah. We need to learn to collaborate more. So they came up with this, uh, this interesting term that today’s leadership looks more like command and collaborate. Yeah. There’s this mix of excellent being able to embrace both sides.

So you’ve got the leader who. Well, I hate that I have to soften my tone and I’ve got other leaders, and I’m sure you’ve worked with them as well, that I hate that I have to have that tough conversation. I hate that I have to challenge that person. Yeah. But leaders in today’s world, it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s a non-negotiable.

[00:21:00] Now you need to have leadership range

Rob: and I, and, and that’s why. I mean, obviously we believe coaching matters,

Eric: right?

Rob: And, uh, it’s why it’s what we do and why coaching matters in that context is that it’s very difficult to get self-aware, to be able to, to, to look in the mirror and just go, oh. It’s on me.

Uh, without having that, that person from outside of your organization who’s able to take a look and to be able to, to, to shine the light where it needs to be shown so that people can start to say, oh, I need to work on this, that I do need to embrace a bit more of the team and not be always, uh, you know, swinging the hammer.

I do need to bring command at times and not just, you know, hide behind that, that collaboration for most leaders. They go about doing that and they don’t even realize they’re doing it. Yeah. I, I remember recently having a leader, not recently, this was while now, but they would come in and they brought, part of why they brought me in was [00:22:00] they needed me to come in and fix their team.

’cause their team was the problem. They kept right. They had their kept,

Eric: oh, I’m sorry, I’m laughing ’cause like how many times have

Rob: you heard that?

Eric: Absolutely. Fix my team

Rob: team. Fix my team. I keep, I, you know, people keep leaving and I, right. You know, these are, they’re all idiots and everything like this.

What’s the common denominator

Eric: there?

Rob: Yeah. All I did is I said, here, I’ve got a coaching moment and I hung up and I showed a mirror to him. Right. No, I didn’t do that. Uh, I was a bit more, but. That was basically what I said is perhaps the issue isn’t your team. And that’s what coaching does, is it brings the mirror so that the leader can see for themselves clearly where do I need to grow and improve?

And again, years ago that would never have been a question that most business owners and leaders asked. It would’ve been, my team needs to smarten up, or I’ll get rid of them all and get new ones. Now leaders are realizing, Hey, that doesn’t work ’cause I’m just in that stage. So.

Eric: I had a great moment recently with, uh, um, a, uh, coaching clients of mine.

They three owners of a very [00:23:00] large, um, construction company, like, uh, restoration type of construction. Yeah. So much of the work on Parliament Hill restoring those buildings, for example. That’s the kind of work that they do and they’ve actually done about. 85% of it. Uh, but they, we, they had asked me to come in and help facilitate their a GM, their annual meeting with all their top like managers and uh, site supervisors and the rest of it.

So I was part of this session and in the afternoon we moved into a question and answer. So they had kind of pitched, here’s where we’re going next year, here’s where we’ve come from this year. So it was kind of like that strategic plan town hall type of meeting. Right,

Steve: right.

Eric: Um, and, and, um, I observed as, as one of the leaders was.

Acting in a way that like was interesting and I was able to ask him, uh, later in a coaching session, say, so it’s interesting I got to watch you in action. I said, the meeting went really well. You did a great job. I said, how anxious were you during the question and answer part? He goes, why do you say that?

He said, I’m curious, how anxious were you? Well, yeah, I get kind of crank like I feel under a lot of pressure and make sure I answer the right the questions right. And I said, yeah. I said, I’m not sure if you [00:24:00] were present to the fact that you weren’t letting people finish their sentences. He goes, what do you mean?

I said, you were cutting them off about 75%. So even as someone was asking the question, they weren’t finished and you were already going into the answer. And I said, you, you were, I said, I offered that to you. It was just as feedback just to, I just observed it. Um, uh, and I said, you were even doing it with your.

Your business partners where, uh, they were trying to contribute and you were cutting them off too. So I’m, I’m curious, what was going on for you there? He goes, I did that. I go, yeah, you did that. He goes like, how much? I said, like, a lot. Uh, and he actually, he was like, oh, and then he started to think, what’s going on?

What was, oh, there was, well there was a guy in the room that I having problems with and he was there and I was, was stressing out and, but he got present to what’s going on under the hood. And I didn’t have to tell him. I said, so you get that? He goes, yeah, I know. I, I, that would drive me crazy if someone did that to me.

I said, exactly. I said, and, and the the risk is if you don’t get that under, like if you’re not present to that and continue to do it, then people stop actually, [00:25:00] yeah. Asking questions. Stop volunteering. ’cause they think they’re just gonna get cut off. Right.

Steve: And what a valuable conversation to have in a safe place for that leader.

You’re not. Judging, finger pointing, shaming. You’re observing the mirror.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: And you’re saying, let’s have a look at how you, you were over, over functioning over, you know, cutting people off and helping that leader get back into that. We like to call it the executive presence. Yeah. Where you’re.

Clearheaded calm, functioning as you should function. Uh, not perfectly. No one does it perfectly, but still you’re much more regulated and in the zone letting people finish listening actively. Yeah. All of that is so what a gift to give a client,

Rob: and, and it is because it’s a mindset. That has shifted. We talk, we’re talking about what are leaders starting to embrace more today than even 10, 12 years ago, you know, 12, 13 years ago when we were starting out as business coaches and doing this work.

I know it’s been, it’s been a, it’s been a season. Um,

Eric: look how far we’ve come,

Rob: gentlemen. Even then, there were a lot of people that [00:26:00] believed that you only hired a coach when you were in trouble.

Eric: Right.

Rob: Whereas that shift today to where most pe most business owners and leaders understand the value of a coach.

They struggle with finding the right coach, but they understand the value and the importance of having that trusted person at their site who’s not dependent on their salary from them. That’s not right. That is an outside. Unbiased, uh, objective, uh, uh, provider of in, you know, of guidance, uh, that that is something that is now commonplace.

No one I think bats an eye when you say, oh, yeah, no, I work with a coach.

Steve: Right? And some people would say, you don’t work with, work with a, you’re not working with a coach. How do you manage the emotional clutter and the, and the all, like, it’s, it’s become the strategic advantage. A huge, huge, and,

Eric: and so obviously the, uh, the solo.

Leadership as a solo sport. That’s a, a, an outdated model. That’s, yeah. That’s shifting. Uh, before we shift gears, uh, ’cause I want to cover [00:27:00] some more ground, but, but what are a couple of other old, uh, habits or outdated mindsets that get leaders into trouble most, more, more often, at least from your

Steve: experience?

Okay, so the. The zeitgeist of the age or the spirit of the age, the rotten toothache of the age is busyness. Mm. It is a, an epidemic and, um, so ha you know, that’s just a, a hurricane of, of. Information and all the stuff that goes with it. So finding a way through that, this barrage of information. So I love, uh, I was watching a, a Ted talk about, uh, the, the word that’s used in, I think it’s the, either the ICU or in the sur surgery room.

I can’t remember it, uh, directly, but uh, the word is this, uh. [00:28:00] We’re not busy. We’re ready.

Eric: Mm.

Steve: Readiness greater than busyness. And, um, I, I’ve tried to use that, uh, phrase a couple times out in my, when I’m walking my dog and I’ll, I’ll see a neighbor and I’ll say, how you doing? And inevitably they say, busy, busy.

And then they want me to, they’ll say, how are you? And they want me to say, busy, right? Yeah. And I, so I don’t, I’ll say, oh, it’s big, big week coming up. I’m ready for it. And they look at me like a.

Rob: Under their breath, they go, yeah, fuck

Steve: off. Fuck off.

Rob: Yeah.

Steve: Yeah. Like a cow looks at a new gate.

Rob: Don’t you understand the rules here?

Like just

Steve: Yeah. The rule, the What games are you playing? That’s right. The rule is you gotta be busy, but yeah, just

Rob: say busy.

Steve: But the busy leader is not the leader that wins. No. Yeah. The focused ready leader is the leader that wins. Yeah. And, uh, so, and whatever it takes. To get rid of the busyness and move into readiness, I think is a vital.

Mm-hmm. Uh, so that old script, and that’s May, [00:29:00] maybe that’s not even 10 years old. Maybe that’s just the last few.

Rob: I, I think it’s still real and for a lot of people

Steve: it’s still real. It’s still real. It’s like the busier I am, the more valuable I am, but really it’s not about busyness, it’s about readiness.

And

Rob: that, and, and for me, a script that ties in so beautifully to that one is I can outwork any problem.

Steve: Right,

Rob: right. Which is not true. It goes into that busyness and, and, and again, while it’s an outdated mindset, I still see, I see it in, I’ve got a young leader, like, like in their early, mid thirties. And, um, that’s their mindset right now is I just, if I, I’ve got these problems.

I’ll just outwork them. I’m just gonna hustle more. I’m gonna show up more. I’m gonna do more, and I’m gonna solve my problems by just being as busy as I can by being, as working as hard as I can. And that is, it’s just a broken model that doesn’t work

Eric: well. It works. Was in some situations, the problem is it’s not sustainable.

It’s not sustainable. It’s not sustainable by way. What that requires of you is, again, you’re trying to outhustle and out [00:30:00] muscle everything as opposed to slowing down, asking the deeper questions, what’s actually going on here and approaching it more strategically. I think what we, uh, have seen is the, uh, gone are the days where being a good tactician is enough to be a good leader.

Mm-hmm. Um, uh, most leaders are good at. Tactics. And by that I mean they’re good firefighters. We talk about that all the time. Um, the, the, the being a good firefighter is just not gonna cut it anymore. You need to move into strategy. Yeah. And asking the right questions a lot more. I’m curious. I mean, we’re all leaders around this table.

Um, and, uh, we talk about this when we talk to clients like what we, the work that we do with leaders. Like I joke around and say like, ask me how I know this stuff. Right? And they often laugh and, ’cause there’s shared experience. We’ve been there, we’ve led organizations for decades. We’ve been leaders, each of us since our late teens.

Uh, and now we’re much older than that. Um, so I think, uh, I mean I’m gonna be 55, uh, [00:31:00] very soon. I’ve been in leadership roles since the age of 17. That’s 38 years of leadership experience. You guys probably have the same. Yeah. Uh, so we start out doing the math. There’s a lot of leadership experience here.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: Um, what was one major, uh, leadership myth, something you had to unlearn more recently? Uh, about leadership? Because we, again, it’s, it’s easy to talk about what other leaders are having.

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. What is one you had to unlearn more recently?

Rob: I, I, one that I am. Unlearning.

Eric: Oh, I like how you framed that.

Yeah. So I haven’t unlearned it.

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: I’m working

Rob: on it. I’m, I’m unlearning. Yeah. Is that Conflict is bad.

Eric: Mm.

Rob: And in leadership, uh, we often think that when people question or challenge. Uh, or we have to have uncomfortable conversations or there’s issue that that’s bad and we need to, and it, and we avoid at all costs, right?

I’m a recovering people pleaser, and so my job was to, [00:32:00] oh, I feel conflict. I need to now. Do whatever, overcompensate, whatever it is that I would need to do in order to push that down. Whereas now, I don’t, I still don’t. Why I say I’m unlearning. I don’t embrace conflict. I don’t welcome conflict, but I recognize the healthiness of conflict, uh, when, when approached and done right.

Conflict can lead to some incredible, uh, realizations and, and, and uncover all kinds of great stuff.

Eric: Well, I mean, a lot of leadership models, including ones that we use, would say that actually without productive conflict Exactly. You can’t actually, uh, see the full potential of your team released. Exactly.

Because everyone is. Living in artificial harmony.

Rob: Yes.

Eric: Uh, right. And avoiding the tough conversations and walking on eggshells around each other and playing. Nice. And I’m not suggesting you go around be an asshole to everybody. No, but ’cause that doesn’t work either. That’s the

Rob: productive conflict.

Eric: Is it’s productive.

Conflict is that word is that we’re able to actually engage mm-hmm. In really tough conversations to find the best way forward. And that we won’t settle for the lowest [00:33:00] common denominator because that keeps the peace. Right. Um, what about for you? What’s one that you’re unlearning or have unlearned?

Steve: I am unlearning that I need to live up to other, other people’s expectations.

What? And, and that expectation message is being fed to me. Constantly. So first of all, it’s in my fa, in my family of origin, what does success look like,

Eric: right?

Steve: And I have to recognize that some of that serves me well and some of that doesn’t. I have to let some of that go. So that has been a significant part.

You mentioned your 55. I’m 59. My next birthday will be 60.

Eric: Whoa.

Steve: So that’s crazy. Uh, a young guy like me, you know, dude, you don’t look at Dave. Over 58. Yes. Thank you. Thank you very much. You’re my new best friend. Hey, Steve.

Rob: Steve, Steve can do you need to go for a nap now?

Steve: I was just napping. Didn’t you notice this?

Eric: For all of you who [00:34:00] listen on like just audio platforms, you miss out on so much, you miss out on the antics. That only can be revealed right by video.

Steve: Yes, that’s true. There, there, there’s a, there’s a great book called Who Moved the Cheese. Remember that one, move the Cheese. And it’s, it’s, uh, I, when I think about that, I think, uh.

The expectations put on me by family of origin and then by social media or advertising. I have to, I have to, uh, uh, I have to achieve that. And the somebody else is telling me what.

Rob: Yes,

Steve: what makes me successful? So I’m on, I’m still unlearning that I, when I think I’ve unlearned it, it just sort of snaps, snaps back again.

So I have to be very conscious. What is success to me? What matters to me? Even, even as a part of Rhapsody, which is amazing and open, and we can have discussions about goals, even within a company like this, you still think, oh, [00:35:00] I need to do what Rob’s doing, or I need to do what Eric’s doing. Right. Or I, I need to do, it’s like, oh, hang on a second.

Yeah. Yes, I’m part of the team, but I’m an individual who has to set individual goals. In particular, uh, in the last e so that we recorded, if, if people haven’t watched it, I would encourage it. Would encourage them to do it. We talked a lot about leading while grieving.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah.

Steve: And so when I, I had three significant losses in my life.

My dad, my uncle, and my nephew all died this year.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: In 2025. And. At the beginning of the grief, I was still living up to the expectations of high performance deliver at a high level. And I was, I could tell I was stretching myself thin. I didn’t have the, I was in grief, energy, not high performance energy.

Yeah. And so I, in that moment was a deep learning moment for me. It’s like, oh, I can’t deliver. What I used to be able to deliver right now because my world has radically changed, dramatically changed. Mm. So ad [00:36:00] adjusting expectations is something I’m still, still working on and I would guess that many listeners can, can relate to.

Yeah. Uh oh Yeah. These expectations aren’t mine. This is, this is coming from somewhere else,

Eric: or, or they are mine and they’re unrealistic or Yeah.

Steve: E either way they

Eric: need to be adjusted. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. They’re just out of whack. Right. Uh, for me, the, the, the thing that I’m still learning mm-hmm. And, um, uh, I remember having this conversation with Dr.

Sherry not long ago, uh, and I made the comment, so for me it’s the whole issue of, um, my, my worth is tied to my usefulness and my performance and right. Uh, um, and, and some recent work in the, over the last several months, just taking that to a whole other level. Uh, I remember saying to her, I thought I was further down the road on this, and she knows how harsh of an inner critic I can have.

So she challenged me right away. She says, oh, Eric, is that that. Like, and I said, no, no, it’s not, it’s not criticism, it’s observation. [00:37:00] It’s just recognition that I still tie so much of my worth and my value to what I produce and, uh, that I’m still working on understanding that one, there’s more than one gear.

There’s more than one speed.

Steve: Right? Right.

Eric: And that often my need to produce as a leader and to achieve and to build and to do the things that I do is really a control move. Trying to manage my own anxiety, my own fears. So still working on that one. Yeah,

Steve: I would say as an observer of you, Eric, that I see you shifting gears.

When we are in work mode, you are high performing, high productivity, but when we go out for drinks and food, you. Switch gears.

Eric: Yeah.

Steve: And you’re in a social mode. You’re in a joyful mode. You’re in a laughing mode. So let me just say, as your friend and colleague Yeah, you are, you are better than probably, you know, you are.

Yeah. At, at shifting gears.

Eric: Well, I appreciate that. That, uh, means a lot coming from you. [00:38:00] Um, gentlemen, if you had to name the number one skill that leaders need now that wasn’t on the radar 10 years ago, let’s talk about the skills. We’ve talked about a few of them, but let’s zero in on. Um, what’s, where do leaders really need to be shifting their attention?

Um, when it comes to where leadership is going to be successful now and into the future?

Steve: Maybe a, a, a shifting from time management, which is a, a myth, but we understand Right. That’s a, a whole industry from shifting, from time management to energy management. Hmm. Uh, again, related to. Outcomes versus time, and how busy am I?

Uh, a lot of my clients do time blocking, you know, like we’re going to block some time in my week for, to work on the sale system. Mm. Time, uh, block some time in my week to develop a, a new hiring system. So those. [00:39:00] The time is blocked, but when they go into that time block, they have zero energy.

Eric: Hmm.

Steve: So now they’re just staring at their computer.

Uh, they’re on social media, they’re on TikTok or whatever it is. And so yeah, you’ve managed your time, you put the time block, but you didn’t enter into that. You didn’t intersect time with energy, which then is productivity, uh, or results. Outcomes. And so I think, uh, that’s a, uh, a skill that, that people want to be more aware of, leaders want to be more aware of is.

How’s my energy? When should I do this in my week? What’s, uh, what should I do before I go into my time blocking? What, what do I need to do after? Yeah. And be very aware of, um, the energy to do this. Maybe I need to leave the office and go to a coffee shop, or maybe, whatever it is, make sure that you’re not just managing your time, but you’re managing your energy as well.

I [00:40:00] love that. And a great way to cycle your energy. So if you think, think of a flywheel cycling, your energy. Is, is that when you are, if you can do this, this is tough. This is like ninja level. If when you’re at work, you’re only thinking about work, then that’s really good. You’re present, right? You’re wholeheartedly engaged at work.

That’s not usually the biggest challenge. Sometimes it is, but then when we’re at home. If we can be fully present at home, wholeheartedly at home, we’re fueling our energy that cycles back into our next day. Yeah. For energy. But if we’re at home thinking about work, answering emails, uh. Emotionally being still at the office.

Then our energy’s lower the next day and, and now our spouse is angry at us because we weren’t at home and now we’re at work worrying about home carrying family.

Eric: Family

Steve: pressure. Family pressure, right? Yeah. So getting that, and again, it’s, that’s, that’s [00:41:00] difficult. Yeah. But being conscious of making sure that I’m, when I’m.

At work, I’m wholeheartedly at work. And when I’m at home, I’m wholeheartedly at home.

Eric: Yeah, it’s, uh, that truly the definition of mindfulness is be mindful, be present where you are. I heard this great thing recently, so part of, uh, my morning ritual is often, uh, run on the treadmill. Uh, in my cardio room, I’ve converted my entire basement into a gym.

I should really sell memberships, uh, for it, because there’s quite, it’s quite impressive. If you

Steve: need a gym,

Eric: if you need a gym, uh, and I have a TV set up and I often, uh, will watch something on the Gaia platform, which is, um, all really good, good stuff. There’s some stuff on there that is a little out there for me, but, um, I’ve been watching this series on transcendence and one piece talks about fulfillment and, uh, the speaker.

Being interviewed talks about, you talked about managing energy through different, uh, entering different activities and different home to, to work to the, and he talks about meditation, but he talks about what he’s practices called transition [00:42:00] meditations, and these are short moments. In between very different activities.

For example, he says if you’re spending the morning and you’re responding to emails and comms and answering things to your team, and then you need to build that slide deck for that presentation, he goes, that’s a very different energy that’s required.

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: For that activity to the other. He says, if you just roll into that next activity, you’re carrying the wrong energy into it.

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: It’s so stopping powerful for two or three minutes. Closing your eyes, just taking a few deep breaths, being present to what you’ve just done, to what I’m about to do now. He says, actually, if you wanna improve your home relationship, do that at the end of your day, when you’ve just come through traffic, let’s say coming home before you walk in the front door.

Stops. Beautiful. Stay in the front, the front seat of your car. Take a few deep breaths, remind yourself of where you are and what you’re, and sh you, you can literally shift your energy instead of mindlessly

Steve: Yes,

Eric: carrying the wrong energy into the wrong. Context, which can cost you dearly [00:43:00] and avoid, uh, you wanna talk about recharge.

Um, for viewers, I just keep punching my microphone. That’s a new thing that I’m doing in today’s episode. You’re flailing his hands in the air. I’m flailing my hands. I talk with my hands. If I sit on them, I can’t speak. I go completely silent. And I can just see Steve, our producer, saying, would you stop hitting the mic some of the third time now?

Um, but we carry the wrong energy into the wrong context. And as a result, like you said, then it becomes this. Cycle of wrong energy. Wrong context. Yeah. Wrong energy, wrong context. Right.

Rob: Well, and we’re, and

Eric: we end up in a cycle

Rob: and we’re talking again. We’re talking about things that we believe that as we, uh, move into the future, that leaders need to be that much more aware of.

And I think energy awareness is critical. It’s interesting. I read a, I read an interesting book recently called The Productivity Project. Hmm. I think you had recommended the author, book, author to me. Great book. Yeah. Um, and he’s got his, his other book called Chris Haley from Kingston. Thank you. Yeah.

Ontario, uh, and his, and his other book, his next book is on meditation. But one of the things, he has also

Eric: a great

Rob: book, also a great book. He has a whole chapter in there that talks [00:44:00] about the mistake that people make with calendar blocking. And all of this is exactly what you just said, is that they, they’re not aware First, first thing you want to do is do an energy audit.

Eric: Wow.

Rob: Uh, and understand as just you as a human, when is your energy highest and when is it lowest? ’cause it’s different for different people. Mm-hmm. And if you can then shape your day, uh, and the most important activities of your day based on when your energy is at the right place,

Eric: right,

Rob: uh, you are going to be much more productive and effective.

And so the notion of energy. Audits, energy understanding, uh, energy literacy, uh, is something that every leader needs to begin to embrace and take on the, there’s

Eric: a superpower now.

Rob: It it absolutely is. Yeah. For me, another one that I think, and it stays in that realm of literacy, is the emotional literacy.

Yeah. Mm-hmm. I, I think that all, uh, leaders today need to become more. We’ve already talked about emotional intelligence. They also need to be much more aware and in tune of their own emotional, uh, where they are. You [00:45:00] mentioned before, guys in particular, we named two emotions. We, we need to be, one of the most fascinating things that all three of us have used with clients is the, is the feelings wheel.

Yeah.

Steve: Right.

Rob: Powerful.

Steve: I use it every morning. Yeah, every morning I have my feelings wheel in front of me.

Eric: So I’ve had clients when I first bring especially dudes, right? Yeah. Yeah. Um, when we’re working on this stuff, ’cause I agree with you, emotional literacy is the superpower. Yeah. That leaders need to lean into the ability to not just understand your energy, but understand what’s going on and what you’re feeling under the hood.

’cause how many times have you had a call that went sideways with a client and you ended up taking it out on your team?

Rob: Right.

Eric: That’s because of a lack of. We’re not paying attention to energy, we’re not paying attention to what’s going on under the hood. Right?

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: Um, uh, I was going there.

Rob: You were, you were starting to say you had a client, uh, uh, you were talking about it.

I thought you were gonna use an example of a specific client right there. No, I

Eric: was, but

Rob: you’ll come back to it.

Eric: Remember

Rob: when I said.

Eric: Turning

Rob: 55. Yeah. So for me to finish, to finish my thought on this is that, Steve, help me

Eric: out

Rob: to finish my thought on [00:46:00] this is that notion of, of being a, uh, the ability to name and identify emotions as a leader, not just, again, emotional intelligence.

Be aware of it for yourself, but also aware of where your team is at. Mm. And we would react. Differently. If we first identified the, the motion that’s go, that’s happening right now, 100%. Is that team member anxious? Are they, are they acting the way they are? Because, you know, right away we go, oh, it’s because they’re a bad employee.

No. What’s the emotion that’s happening under the surface? And so emotion, I, I think energy literacy, emotional literacy are like neck and neck critical for leaders moving into the next. A decade of, of, of leadership.

Eric: Well, I’ve heard emotional, so emotional intelligence is part of that, right? It is, yeah. And, and a big part of that because, um, emotional, like when we talk about literacy, that’s like, uh, or acuity, emotional acuity is the ability to recognize Right.

What you’re feeling, right? Yeah. But then there’s the emotional self-regulation, the [00:47:00] ability to shift. What you’re feeling, the ability to regulate what you’re feeling. And by that we don’t mean, we don’t mean stuff it way down, way, way down, right? Uh, right for it to blow up in your face somewhere down the road.

Now we’re talking about the ability to actually process it, let it move through you. Uh, these are, are, are superpowers that can make a world of difference. Now I’m a big martial arts fan. Um, uh, some people don’t know that. Everyone knows I’m a big like. Uh, superhero type team. Yeah. You’re, you’re Geek Marvel.

I’m a geek and I’m a big sci-fi and fantasy type movie. Yeah. But martial arts movies, I love ’em. I just can’t get enough. And growing up I just couldn’t get enough and. Think of that if you’ve, if you’ve watched those movies, isn’t it impressive that the guy that usually comes out on top, his ability in moments of great conflict and great pressure to center

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: Himself or, or herself, to get really centered and calm right before they then. Basically kick everybody’s ass. But the point is, it’s that ability to regulate yourself [00:48:00] that a lot of people lack and, and we don’t wanna talk about emotion in the workplace, and dudes really struggle with this, but I’m like, but those emotions are working you from the shadows, working you over, and in many cases fucking you over because you haven’t learned the skill to read them.

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: Right. To understand them and regulate them. Right. Emotional intelligence comes down to this. Know yourself. Control yourself.

Steve: Yeah.

Eric: Read the room. Work the room, right? Yeah. And when we can do that effectively, uh, I know this is not new, this has been at the last 20 years or so, emotional intelligence has been really, uh, uh, important.

And matter of fact, the trend is that people will hire for EQ over iq, uh, right. Because it is so, uh, so crucial. But I say it’s becoming even more,

Rob: more crucial, and we’ve. And one of the things that we have done over the years is we’ve immersed ourselves in things like cognitive behavior therapy, right?

Family systems dynamic. And the reason we do that is we recognize the importance of bringing that to the, to our coaching. [00:49:00] The notion of there there’s not an emotion that you didn’t create. Like, you know, like you have, you control those, like they are, they are yours, uh, and you can choose to embrace ’em.

Nobody made you happy. You made a choice to be happy in that moment. Nobody made you angry. You made a choice to. To be angry in that moment. And so I think that regulation, the empowerment that, that brings to a leader, the, the, the sense of, oh, I really can, I can manage and regulate these emotions by identifying and recognizing what they are

Steve: when I have my, my feelings wheel in front of me in the morning, my journaling time.

Eric: That’s what I wanted to say. Keep going.

Rob: Yeah. I

Steve: just can’t All came back to you. Came back to you. I identify what my emotion is. Usually I go to the, the side. That’s not the po, you know, either sad, angry, whatever. That I find the, the thing that would drag me down, and I identify that and say, okay, I’m feeling sad today.

I just, you know, I’m, I’ve, I’ve had some grief in my life. I recognize that I honor it. [00:50:00] Then I say, okay, now. Emotion do I wanna move towards that will help me get through the day. And there’s a list of like eager, curious, inspired, courageous, determined. There’s lots of, and then I put my finger and I say, I’m choosing today, I’m choosing, for example, curiosity today.

And I write it down, curiosity, and then through the day. I recommit. And that’s, I think that’s key. I recommit ’cause I love that I start getting pulled back down into sadness or discouragement. Yeah. Or whatever, apathy. And then I say, okay, hang on a second. You committed to curiosity this morning. Let’s recommit to that.

And again, again, that’s that mindfulness in between sessions. For two or three minutes, we, we meditate. And, and for me it’s, I call it recommitting as, as simple as like, I’m recommitting.

Eric: It’s intention,

Steve: it’s an, I’m recommitting to that emotion today. And I probably do that four out of five mornings. Every now and then.

I miss it, drop the ball. Uh, [00:51:00] but it’s now become a habit. It’s become a mental habit and an emotional habit. That is required so I can keep moving forward.

Eric: I’ll say this, uh, if there’s a, um, what would be considered, I think by some as a luxury item that now to me is, uh, I believe not only for my life, but for leaders in general, especially with the increasing pressure on leaders that we’re seeing and how much more difficult it is to lead Now, given that leaders have less power than they’ve ever had throughout history, is your morning ritual.

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: And, and, uh, if you’re, if you’re like most people, if most people wake up in the morning, first thing they reach for is their phone and they start scrolling through social media. Then they check their inbox and they’re scrolling and, and, and reading up about all the asks and wants of every other human.

So if you wake up and you’re consuming every day. You’re fucked. Yeah. Like you’re starting the day on the wrong foot. Uh, you ought to be creating, crafting, setting intentions, [00:52:00] uh, guarding those early mornings. Get your phone, lock it in a safe if you have to. I did something. I mean, I’ve talked about it before.

I recla about s. Going on five months ago now, reclaim my mornings by installing an application called Freedom On My Devices. It shuts everything off. 9:00 PM every night to 8:00 AM the next morning. All social media, all news channels. My email, I can’t even access Slack. Channels go dead. I can’t access them.

I get one. Pass a week where I can disable it and if I need something early morning or within that timeframe. So I use that free pass very strategically. Yeah. ’cause it’s one pass every seven days. I tell you my life has changed. ’cause now when I get up during the morning, I, my rituals about creating, crafting the kind of day I wanna, setting intention, uh, self-care, all those things.

Um, we have the time. We’re just using it. Wrongly.

Steve: I was in, uh, doing a presentation down in [00:53:00] Atlanta for, um, commercial Kitchen Services Association, and it was a room of about 300, uh, commercial kitchen owners and executives. So, blue collar?

Eric: Yeah,

Steve: like just salt of the earth. Amazing people. And we were talking about, I was presenting on morning, morning rituals and morning habits.

And so I had the microphone and I was walking around the room and what are, you know, what are some morning rituals and morning habits that work for you? And I walked up to one guy and he said, I, I put it in his, in his, the microphone, in his face. And I said, what’s your morning ritual? And he said, coffee and a cigarette.

And I say out loud, this fucking shit again.

So then I said, all right, well, we can start there.

Eric: The, the, the, the, the great part. There’s only room for improvement.

Steve: There’s only the only one way to go with room for improvement. And of course, everybody in the room laughed, of course. And of course everybody could relate. ’cause like a lot of, a lot of professionals start their day with, oh my God, here we go again.

Yep. But [00:54:00] we, we can all become a, a, a bit more centered, a bit more focused, a bit more ready readiness by starting our mornings stronger. So it was easy to coach that guy for some improvements. He was that bottom level. Yeah. He

Eric: was kind of like, listen, it’s uh, amazing how fast the time has elapsed. We’re already at the end of our time.

I feel we could continue to talk about this, so we’re likely gonna have to do a, a follow up to this episode at some point. Uh, but gentlemen, in, in lightning round format, just so that we can wrap up the show, what do you hope leaders lean into after this conversation today? What is one thing you would hope they really lean into?

Rob: That they upgrade their mindset before worrying about the methods?

Eric: Hmm.

Steve: Yeah, I would say, uh, I would say a shift from win at any cost to win and stay whole. Stay whole. Stay, stay, stay full.

Eric: Love that.

Steve: And, and that shift will make a difference.

Eric: Uh, and I would say, uh, become that ninja. Uh, get [00:55:00] present to what’s going on under the hood, and learn to be more centered, uh, and calming the inner world, self-regulating.

So that you can be that much more effective, uh, in your outer world. Folks, we’re so glad that you’ve joined us. I know this is a conversation about leadership, but we’ve, we know there’s a lot of leaders that are part of the nation. Uh, and if you’re not a leader currently, maybe you will be someday, or, you know, a leader who could use, uh, perhaps the, some of the wisdom that was shared around the table today.

Gentlemen, this has been really great, really rich. I feel, again, we could talk. All day, right? But our producer is signaling we need to and land the plane. So we’re so glad you joined us. Uh, to learn everything about what we do at Living Richly, go to living richly.me. You can find out more about the podcast and past episodes that we’ve had, uh, and you can also find out about our, uh, Facebook group, the Living Richly Nation, uh, uh, about a thousand strong, uh, people that are on a similar journey of learning to lead more effectively and live a rich life.

And of course, Rhapsody Strategies. Our coaching business is the sponsor of the show. And if you’re currently a leader who’s looking to level up their game, [00:56:00] level, up your team, level up your business, reach out to us on rhapsody strategies.com. Uh, you can find out about everything that we do there. We’d be happy to help you get to the next level.

Folks, so glad that you joined us. Uh, we appreciate your support. Uh, and until next time, get out there and live your best life.

 

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