Stop Carrying It All Alone – How Receiving Builds Trust, Connection, and Real Freedom

Eric: [00:00:00] We’re

Rob: allergic to praise. We’re allergic to recognition, although we all crave it. Why is it so risky? Why for so many is this notion of being, uh, open and okay with receiving so risky.

Kate: So when someone offers help, I’m like. My instinct is like, I

got it.

Kate: Why the hell are you offering me help? Like, why do you think I can’t do this on my own?

I’ve been doing it on my own for, and then that script just runs like crazy, but I’m tired as fuck. But it’s okay.

Wendy: I have it all under control. Everything is fine.

Rob: Hey, and welcome to the Live and Richly podcast. We’re so glad you joined us again this week, and, uh. You know, last week I was having a conversation with someone and they complimented me on some things that I had done for them, and I immediately. Dismissed it, played it down, kind of came up with all these reasons why it was no big deal.

Yeah. Um, why [00:01:00] is it so difficult for us to receive compliments, to be on the receiving side of others giving whether it’s praise or, or help? Uh, we’re gonna, we’re gonna unpack that today. We’re gonna look at that. We’re gonna talk about how we kind of move past that and why it can be keeping us from.

Experiencing real joy, living our life fullest. Uh, there’s some gift that comes from the receiving game. Is it just me or do you guys struggle? I,

Eric: I think this is a you thing, dude. Like honestly, I think this is a you thing that you need to work on. Uh,

Rob: Kate. Kate, why don’t let me start with you because clearly I’m not gonna get much from him.

Uh, is What about for you? Is this something you struggle with? Is this something that you

Kate: Ference? Yeah, I think everyone struggles with it. I thinks areas of my life I’ve like improved on, which I’m happy. I think like receiving a compliment today. For me, I can handle way better than my insecure younger.

[00:02:00] Self. I think that’s part of growth. I think that’s part of like when you start believing things yourself and your worthiness and you do the work. So that part for me, better far from perfect but better. I think when it comes to like receiving help, that for me is my number one. Like that’s still today where I struggle.

So someone. Offers me how, my first instinct is like, why do you think I’m failing? Like, what am I not doing right? Like, that’s where my head goes. So like, work in progress on both. But some are better than others. Yeah. Mine’s the

Wendy: same. Asking for help or accepting help. Oh. Although I am better at it. Yeah. Um, but then also accepting compliments and like reading things that people will write about me.

And I don’t know why I, I think it’s because I don’t want it to seem like. I’m conceited or it’s Sure. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. I think that’s a big one for people. Like, it’s almost like we, uh, we we’re allergic to praise. We’re allergic to recognition, although we all crave it. [00:03:00] Yeah. Um, and yet when we receive it, uh, for me, I think, uh, definitely, um, I’m much.

More comfortable on the giving side of the equation. Um, and actually, uh, one of the life scripts that I continue to chip away at is useful Eric versus, um, whole Eric and I. Far, I, I, I, I’m moving towards whole Eric, but I operate, I think still a lot of the time under useful Eric. And so when I’m in the receiving position, I don’t feel useful.

Um, and there’s a co and you and I have had many conversations about my, I’m a burden script, right? I don’t want to be a burden to people. So usually when people are giving in my direction, uh, I’m, I’m more uncomfortable. I’m way better, like you said, I’m way better than I was when I was younger. Yeah. But I still recognize pretty strongly.

And, and that’s part of why I love this show, because the topics like make you kind of take a hard look and you go. Oh, right. Yeah. I, I still struggle with this big time, uh, [00:04:00] and at the core of it for me, uh, and we’ll explore it more, I’m sure during the conversation, but it’s control.

Rob: Yeah.

Eric: Yeah.

Rob: So what’s, what’s your party trick?

What’s your go-to trick when somebody does, uh, offer help or compliment or give. To you, uh, what’s your typical reaction? What do you, what, what’s your first to do?

Wendy: Oh, I deflect and I spin it back on them. Members will always say at the gym, like, oh, I couldn’t do this without you and you, and my, my default is always, you know.

I may have laid the tracks out, but you are the one that drives your bus. You

Eric: are doing the hard work. You

Wendy: are doing the hard work. Always, always, always.

Eric: Oh my God. That’s like a, that’s like a script from my playbook. I do the same thing.

Kate: My go-to is like, if someone offers me help, I’m like, I’m good. I’m fine.

I got it. Like I just, I don’t need it. Like, Nope.

What, why did you get so hostile all the time?

Kate: Because that’s how it comes outta my body actually at the time. That’s my go-to. I will just not, I’m like, I’m good. I got it. Even though I’m drowning, I won’t accept it. Yeah.

Eric: I do the same deflect. [00:05:00] Uh, I downplay it all.

It was nothing. Right. Uh, or just change the fucking subject. Like I just, uh, and so anyway, and, uh, we move on to something else. Yeah.

Rob: I love having conversations with you where I’m celebrating something you’ve done and you’ll kind of, oh, and you’ll, you’ll, ah, it’s all right, but we gotta work on this. And there’ll be, and my oftentimes I’ll be like, and you could answer.

Thank you.

Yeah. I

Rob: actually, every time I get that text, I’m like,

right, right. Thank you, Rob. Yeah, yeah.

Rob: Now we’re, we’re, we’re not always, uh, talking about massive, big things here. Yeah. Uh, it’s often the small things that we struggle with maybe more. Uh, if somebody wants to hand me a million dollars Oh no, please.

You know, like I, I think I’m, I’m, I’m good to take that. Uh, it’s the small things and so maybe any examples, uh, let’s, let’s see how much of our readers, and, and I’d love to have a reader. Listeners and wa those [00:06:00] watching, uh, make comments and share their stories. But what, what are, what’s an example of something small where you struggled recently?

Wendy: You know what, I didn’t have anything written down for this specifically, but this just popped into my mind, or at least this is what resonates with me. So when, um, on Mother’s Day, when my girls and I love cards, like I’m very, I love cards, I love just, you know, nice messages, things like that. And the message that my girls wrote in my Mother’s Day card, um.

Made me emotional and I found myself, you know, because it was around just, you know, you’ve always showed up for me, mom, you know, even in my, in, in my hard times, you’ve always been there for me. You’ve always been my biggest cheerleader. And right away in my head I was like, but. Have I, you know, like, you know, again, I still struggle with, I’ve been divorced for a long time, but you know, I still struggle with, you know, but, you know, did I always show up for you the way I was supposed?

All, all of that kind of stuff. So yeah, that, that would be my example.

Eric: Yeah, that’s a, that’s a great example. ’cause I think again, [00:07:00] uh, we’ve talked a lot about parent guilt. Parent guilt is one thing. And then there’s other areas of our lives where we don’t feel very confident or we don’t feel that maybe we’ve showed up the way that we want.

And we’ve, we, we’ve created a narrative and it almost like becomes like, uh, it’s like we have a force field around us. So when people try to thank us or give or support us, it’s almost like, oh, I don’t deserve that. Um. And we become uncomfortable and shift it. Right. Uh, for me, there’s no recent incident so much as just autopilot.

It’s, this is one of the autopilots that I’m, I’m working at breaking more and more like around, you know, birthdays and uh, client feedback. Like that kind of stuff happens, you know, like on your birthday people put attention on you, and then we get regular client feedback from the results we help ’em get.

And so there I’m a little bit more comfortable just, I think it’s. I just have more reps. Uh, I’ve done more reps there, so it’s easier, right? It’s like going to the gym. Um, but most of the time on other stuff, I, um, I, again, I, I deflect, downplay [00:08:00] and change the subject and slip into self erasure, right? Like I, and I do this a lot.

I mean, I’ve talked about. Doing a lot of reflecting these days and uh, part of getting my mornings back is, I’ve got a lot of time to think, but, um, just this overperforming side of me that, um, you know, we talked about that on a early show when you guys were on a high performer versus over performer, and I’m still very much a recovering over performer and I am much more comfortable being useful, Eric, uh, because there’s a story I’ve told myself for years.

That’s the only PE reason people keep me around. Um, right. That, um, I didn’t. Uh, I didn’t think I was worthy of love. Uh, I’ve talked about the deep self-loathing and so I couldn’t imagine how anybody else could, um, really love me, but useful guy to have in your corner. Fuck yeah. Right, because, uh, uh, useful.

Eric, you need something, Jesus, like, uh, I will, I will do whatever it takes to get it done and, and to the point even of. Completely, uh, ignoring my own [00:09:00] needs, um, and, and sometimes even to my own detriment. Uh, right. Uh, so all of this is really tied together for me. And, and again, this show has caused some Yeah.

Like you were saying, I this

one, like, yeah.

Wendy: Can we just, can we, let’s talk about something else. Can we fast

Eric: forward

Rob: to this one?

Wendy: Yeah. That’s why we’re so exhausted after I know. Were like, man, that was deep. Yeah.

Whose idea

Wendy: was it for us to be

vulnerable for this topic? Yeah.

Kate: Yeah, my, my mine’s not so deep.

My, no. For me, I remember I was, uh, it was at work. I came into work one morning and someone had just loved me. Like a little sticky note that just said, you’re, you’re, you’re awesome, or you’re doing a great job. And it was, work was hard at that time. And I remember I just got the note and I got completely like, overwhelmed by someone leaving me just a nice kind.

Word. I didn’t know who it was. I found out who it was, but I didn’t know who it was. And I remember just being like, oh my God, that’s so thoughtful. Like, who’s the person who left this? And who’s thinking of like, so you talk about like [00:10:00] receiving, I’m like, I’m not receiving. No. And I had all the emotions in the world around it, but I’m like, it’s funny, it’s one little note with a few words on it, but it had huge impact.

Rob: It, it’s interesting how, um. Uh, when, when you talk about this with people, there’s almost this idea that it’s weakness to receive it’s weakness to, yeah. Fuck you. Right? Yeah. Okay. Sorry, sorry, sorry. I’m feeling very vulnerable right now. And to our listeners. Yes, we’re friends best of, um, yes, uh, no. It it, but we do right.

There’s not, not everyone sees it this way, but a lot of people do see whether it’s, uh, it, it’s not so much even just the asking for help, but you know, as you said earlier, like when, when we just, when people offer help. Without us even asking. Yeah. It’s, it’s like weakness to, to receive that, to say yes, to say, you know, where’s that come from?

[00:11:00] Why, why is it as a society that we see, uh, receiving as a weakness?

Eric: I learned to buy reward, right? My, uh, my family of origin, a home that I grew up in, uh, I’ve talked about it before and, uh, my dad’s gone now. Uh, my mom would never listen to the show, so I’m safe in saying just about anything. But I was raised by a workaholic dad, a great, a great man, but he worked his ass off to the point of driving himself sick.

Um. And a narcissistic mother. The, the only way I truly got noticed, and it’s not that there’s not a lot of great family memories and moments, but what I recognized is, was the theme was I got attention when I performed well. So, you know, I was the kid getting a hundred percent in school. I was the kid that was actually a grade ahead of his time, right?

Because, like that, because I got fed, like when I did shit like that, um, I got attention, I got. Praise. Right? Uh, and then in my young leadership career, it was the same, right? I started off [00:12:00] as a young leader, and very quickly at 17, you’re like pushed to the front of the room and all of a sudden, like you’ve got people saying, oh, you’re, that’s a, that was a really great speech you just gave Eric, and that was really good.

Uh, and, and now you’re like, oh, okay. Right. So when I give, and when I perform and when it, so it got programmed into me really, really young and early on that, um, uh, giving is the thing to do. And of course the religious. Background. We came from self-sacrifice, dying to self. It was like e equal to godliness for Christ sake.

It is

Rob: better to give than to receive

Eric: what is bullshit. I mean, I, I don’t think that, uh, I think those are the red words. I don’t think what Jesus meant there is that receiving is bad. But I think, uh, again, gotta question whether he actually said that, but that’s another story. That’s another story that’s, I feel like, I feel like that one was added later.

Yeah. By someone else. Honestly, like the programming ran so deep that for me, that almost allergic, right? Like it’s taken a lot of work to, I’m better now, but I [00:13:00] like, it’s still an area I do not want to be in. I, I, I, I feel I, there’s a threat level for me. Literal threat level. It’s like def con three when I feel like I’m the center of attention and people are taking care of me.

Uh, it’s like I’m not useful anymore. I’m a burden now.

Rob: It’s, it’s interesting that you say that and, and the story that came to mind. ’cause I hadn’t, I didn’t have a story for this one until you started to share boat with your parents. No, you’re welcome. And the thought that came to mind was, um, when my mom passed away, she wrote letters to my brother and my sister and I.

Before she passed away. She, she didn’t, she didn’t, she didn’t write the letters after she wrote it from the grave folks before she passed. You heard you heard here first? Yeah. Before she passed away, she wrote, uh, these letters. And in mine, one of the things she, she talked about is, you’ll, you’re you, I I’ll, I never have to worry about you.

I won’t worry about you. You’re always there for everyone else. You’re the bridge. You’re the bridge builder. The you’re the one that keeps everybody [00:14:00] together. And I remember even at the time, being unsettled with what she wrote. ’cause I was like, by. I, I want to be taken care of by you. You’re my mom. Right?

Like, I remember it was one of the, those moments, and, and that comes to mind again, is that, uh, to your point is, is I, I know for me so much of my life, I was celebrated by being the one who shows up. The one who takes care of others, the one who isn’t in need is able to, you know, take care of others. Even when my daughter died, uh, that was my, my go-to reflect, uh, uh, re reaction was to make sure the church was okay to make sure that my family was okay.

I grieve. Privately and alone, but publicly, I needed to be a man of faith who really took care of everybody else. So, yeah. Yeah. Living in a fishbowl soul in that, right? Like you remember

Eric: that? Like, it not just like, it wasn’t just your life that was under scrutiny, like constant scrutiny. Oh yeah. Uh, your family, your kids.

Right. Your [00:15:00] relationship with your ex, like, like our exes, like it was all under scrutiny. There was no room for fucking opera making a mistake. Uh, and so keeping it together, being the one that, um, had it all together and. Had all the answers. Like that’s, that’s what we learned really early on. So that’s

Rob: one of the beliefs that it’s, that it’s, it’s that, that there’s a, it’s weak.

The other belief is, is a belief around control. We’re not gonna, I’m not gonna ask Eric, ’cause I know that this is not an issue for him at all. No. Uh, we’ll get to Eric in a second, but, but how does, how does, how does this play out for you guys? This notion of, of receiving, giving, receiving and kind of where control comes into that?

Kate: Yeah, I think. Can you use an example? So my ex and I used to have this debate because I love to give gifts, you know, that like, I, I,

Eric: and I’ll have to say probably the most thoughtful gift giver I have ever met. Like [00:16:00] nothing is by chance. No it’s not. Like, walk in, pick the first card you see or buy the fir.

It’s, it’s all very, very thought through about what’s very meaningful to, it’s, it’s your, it’s part of your love.

Kate: Thank you. Yes. And so we had this debate that he would always say that when I would give a gift, he’s like, it’s not for the other person, it’s for you. He’s like, it makes you feel good. And I said, it does make me feel good, but it, I’m also, because it’s a thoughtful gift and because I’m not just.

Randomly picking something. It’s not about the act of giving for me, it’s the, the whole thing is about making somebody else feel like that I, they were considered and there was thought behind it. And so it’s this double-edged sword where yes, I feel. Happy. It brings me joy to bring you joy, for instance, if I do it.

But that’s, I don’t do it for me. I do it for the, the other person. So for me, like this debate [00:17:00] over, like I get, like if I, the control thing there is, I’m controlling the narrative. But I can tell you when Eric gets me a really thoughtful gift, I don’t. Feel, I feel like I know what he put into it because I do it all the time.

So for me, the, I don’t know if I’m controlling it because I like, because I can control how I feel in this space. I, I have a different view. The control for me is not. There when I give gifts. Yeah.

What, what about for you? I

Wendy: think being the giver makes us feel safe because we are Yeah, kind of in that control state and we can control the flow in terms of like how we expect the, you know, how we kind of expect the person’s reaction is gonna be.

And we kind of, you know, whatever thought we’re putting into it. And I know for me, like I’ll kind of imagine, you know, what, what that’s gonna look like. Um, but I feel like letting. Someone like when we break down the walls of control, that’s almost like letting somebody in. Sure. And that can be scary for a lot of, scary for a lot of people.[00:18:00]

Yeah. Um, because. Now you’re showing your vulnerable side. Yeah, for sure. Of being, you know, that o on, on that side of the coin for sure. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. For me, I, I think it depends on, on the context and the situation, I think there’s giving that I do or receive, sorry, receiving that I do like receiving from you and is much easier, but I, there’s definitely an element.

Control, and you just alluded to it. When you’re the giver, you get to set the terms, you’re in the driver’s seat, right? You’re, you’re, you’re holding the power. Um, and, and you can avoid being seen as needy again, which is a, uh, something I continue to work on, which is funny because from a young age, even as a young leader.

I’ve always tried to lead with vulnerability and transparency, sharing my story and in, in doing so, reveal aspects of my life that most people wouldn’t talk about. And I know I get, I’ve gotten feedback my whole life that, thank you for that. ’cause it, it, it gives me permission to do the same. I mean, when you go first, you, you help others do it too.

[00:19:00] And, and yet when it comes to, um, uh, it comes to this whole allowing others to support me and, uh, again, I really am very, very aware of these two co, these two complimentary unhealthy scripts of useful Eric, and don’t be a burden, like they just rear their ugly heads. Um, and it’s something I continue to, uh, to have to work on because it’s just so easy for me to slide into.

I don’t. Matter and No, you don’t, don’t be doing this. And wait a second, if I’m needy, will you leave me?

Mm-hmm.

Eric: Because are you connecting me just ’cause of what I can do for you?

Rob: Yeah. Yeah. That I can do really well. And, and it’s interesting that you talk about, because you’re right, you and I both have been people who have led with vulnerability.

Now it’s inter, I, I learned this about myself, is that I’m, I’m, when I’m sharing the narrative and sharing the story of vulnerability, I’m still in control. Right. I choose what’s said, what’s not said, how I say it, how it shows up. Uh, and, [00:20:00] and there’s a different type of vulnerability that comes in the receiving, uh, where when I’m sharing my story, I’m actually still in giver mode.

Uh, I’m giving, fuck you again, right? But it is right. We’re giving, uh, we’re giving of ourselves in order to impact other people, but we’re doing it in that very controlled way. It is risky. And, and Eric, I, I wanna lean in because I so appreciate your vulnerability here. Uh, I love watching you be uncomfortable.

No, I’m just kidding.

Not really. Whatcha talking about Not uncomfortable at all. You know,

Rob: when you, when you talk about that, why is it so risky? Why for so many is this notion of being, uh. Open and okay with receiving. So risky.

Eric: Uh, I think it honestly, like I’ve been doing so much work on or reflection on this issue of control and the latest, uh, and how much, how much of that still?

Um. Is at play in my life. And the, the [00:21:00] most recent example is, uh, uh, back in July I hired a fitness coach. It was time I had been neglecting my health, uh, for better part of a year. As I was telling myself all the bullshit stories that the business needed me to do this. And I’ll get back to it sometime.

And then before you know it, I’ve put on some weight and I’m not feeling great anyway. I’m down like 24 pounds and I’m feeling better than I have in a long time. All my old clothes fit me again. It’s like I got a brand new wardrobe. Um, so that’s all great. But I recently, uh, well. By the time this air show, this show airs, it’ll be a few months.

But, um, we were at the cottage and, uh, I was falling at the time. Uh, it was part of my getting back to health plan and part of it was my nutrition piece. And, um, I started to spin outta control one day. ’cause I, I felt like I was not able to manage it and, uh, I was struggling to hold to the plan and whatever else.

And you remember mm-hmm. Do, uh, I like it started to spiral and, uh, I had been so disciplined. I, I didn’t miss one to this day. Since I started July 21st, I, I missed a workout. I may have delayed the [00:22:00] workout ’cause I couldn’t do it that day. But I’ve hit every workout. I’ve been very disciplined on my eating and it’s been a really great journey.

But what I recognize is, oh, look at me. I just shifted what I put my control on. So now I’ve become rigid with this, and here I am trying to manage my anxiety and manage like all this stuff by just look at what Eric can do and look right, like this performance piece for me is really big. And you were really so helpful and was like really like you’re gonna let go one day.

This is all gonna fall apart and you’re gonna lose it all. And I was like, of course not like that doesn’t even make sense in my head. Right. But control is like that. Control, uh, it feels tight, it feels rigid. It feels like, it feels like anxiety. It does, yeah. It’s filled with fear, dude. It’s full of fear.

And so I think for a lot of folks giving, or sorry, receiving is, is very much the same way. I risk exposing myself, I risk letting someone in. You talked about this notion of connection and relationship. Um. If I can’t receive, when we struggle to receive, we’re, we’re [00:23:00] doing this right? We’re, and, and for our listeners, I’m putting my hands up, pushing back.

Right? Uh, those are, they’re tuning in, not by video, but, uh, um, we’re, we’re pushing people away. We’re not letting them in. Uh, and yet true connection is based on authenticity, vulnerability, and saying, here’s the real media, you know, take, take me or leave me, kind of thing. Right? Um, uh, so, so that’s, it’s, it’s, yeah.

Yeah. No, I think that’s, it’s loaded.

Rob: It, it really is. And we’re gonna talk about. Connection and, and the, the gift of receiving as part of how you connect other people. But before, like, mm-hmm. What about for you guys? Why is this a risk? Why is this a challenge? What, what shows up? I wanna hear from you, Wendy, and then I definitely want to hear from Kate on this one.

Kate: Okay. In that order. In that order,

Rob: yes. In that order, definitely. Yes. You’ve never been,

Kate: so it was very prescriptive on that. He’s being very

much the hosty host right now. Only ’cause I, I, I know what’s coming in the notes.

Kate: I might, I might [00:24:00] bear

Wendy: away from my notes. Yeah, you

Eric: may say something else now.

Wendy: So I feel Yes.

Receiving Stop. It means being very seen, uh, flaws, needs, and all seen you’re seen right now, which is wow. Which is strange because. I have been one of those people that has been very open and transparent publicly on a lot of my flaws, my journey, that kind of stuff. So I’m not sure why receiving would feel risky, like I haven’t really kind of identified that in my head, but I struggle with having the spotlight on me.

I really, really do. Which is very weird because I am literally on a stage wearing a microphone every day. Yeah. In front of. Tons of people. Yeah. Um, but I always want, like no matter what I’m putting into it, no matter what I’m delivering, no matter what I’m coaching, I always want the other person to feel celebrated.

I always want them to [00:25:00] feel like they are the ones taking, um, whatever it is that I’m giving them. But, but. That’s not on me. That’s on them. Yeah. This is all about you. And so I, I, I really, ’cause I never want it to be like, oh, Wendy, this and many that. I’m like, no, I don’t wanna be on this. I don’t wanna be in the spotlight.

I think a lot of

Kate: people feel like that. I think a lot of people feel like that. I know for me it’s, it’s if I, I, if you offer me help. It’s like, for me, that means I’m failing. I have not, I don’t have my shit together. So what are you seeing? I’m no long, clearly I’m not showing this perfect. Like I got my shit together.

So for me, it’s like someone shining a light on everything. I am fucking up. So when someone offers help, I’m like, my instinct is like, I

got it.

Kate: Why the hell are you offering me help? Like why do you think I can’t do this on my own? I’ve been doing it on my own friend, and then that script just runs like crazy.

So when someone offers help. And I [00:26:00] know we’re going to get into this in the relationship. I’m not giving Robin’s line. I’m not gonna do it. I, okay. So Ty, when Eric

Eric: has offered help, was there a specific time I offered to do something for you?

Kate: There was an episode where I talked about Eric offering to mow my loss.

Hey,

Rob: thank you. Thank

you for allowing us.

Kate: There you go.

Eric: For the record, I’ve offered many

times.

Kate: I’ve always accepted for the record. Alright. Alright. Okay. Steer docket. Yeah. No,

Wendy: but poor Kate in her lawn. I know

Eric: it needs

Wendy: mowing. Edward scis. Edward Scissorhands. I sure hope not.

Rob: Speaking of mowing lawns, uh, let’s talk connection.

Oh,

nice.

Rob: Nice segue. Nice segue there. Yeah. Nice segue. Yeah. Deep connection because when we, when we think about. Giving and receiving, and in those [00:27:00] relationships that matter most, um, talk about how, uh, the way we give, the way we receive, uh, leads to or drives connection for us.

Kate: I think like my example, like not letting Eric give or me not receiving it, it can create resentment potentially for him towards me because I’m, I’m not letting him in for some reason.

I don’t trust him. With that part of me, I can see over time. It could lead to resentment, right? It could just lead to like, you start to lose that little trusted space and then I’m not being vulnerable, and then he’s questioning why I’m not being vulnerable, and then that’s that can. I think the vulnerability is what leads to the true connection.

Yeah. So part of it is, in a relationship, at least a romantic one, is you, it’s letting your guard down. This is your safe space. It doesn’t mean it’s always easy, [00:28:00] but also understanding that by, by me letting Eric in, it’s, it’s. It’s for him as much as it’s also for my own growth. Yeah. It’s for our intimacy.

Eric: Yeah, absolutely. And, and I think how we feel when someone rejects our offer to help, right? Like, so if we go back to the giving side of the equation, um, uh, for me, like if, if someone. The close, the, the more meaningful, the, the higher the stakes, the more meaningful the relationship, the, the deeper the sting that I feel when someone close to me says, no, I’m good right now.

Uh, part of that is I’ve made it about me. All of a sudden, that moment, and I, my useful Eric, is not feeling useful. There’s nothing I can do. And in that moment, I’m still working on. Whole Eric just being loved for who he is and not how that he can get a hundred percent on his English test. Right. I, I’m still working on, on, on, on shifting that narrative, um, and understanding that oftentimes when someone, uh, close [00:29:00] to me just says, no, I’m good.

Um, unless they’re truly def. Thing they, there, it’s just an expression of their own agency, their own autonomy and capacity to handle the problem. And they’re good. They’re honestly good. And I, I end up making it about me, uh, and then spiraling down this hole of, um, well, you know, they don’t love me. They’re gonna leave me.

They’re gonna see that I’m, you know, uh, that they can do this without me, and all of a sudden, where does that leave me? Uh, right. But that’s a really insecure place to live and a really unhappy place to live. Um, and, and I would say to all the givers that are watching this show. ’cause I think there are folks that are what I call, like there, like it’s, it’s one thing to give, but there are people that are givers, right?

Yeah. Like that’s their superpower. And I would put myself in that, in that category. You’re definitely one too. Both of us are, um, uh, I would say like your needs are valid. Your needs actually matter. Not everyone else’s. Your needs matter, and the more you can start getting present to that, [00:30:00] that’s been the work for me and continues to be.

The work for me is to say it’s okay for me to give without. Erasing myself. Um, it’s okay to receive. That’s not a threat to the relationship. It’s an expression of love and care. Um, and that, uh, leaning again, more and more trying to lean into that hole, Eric, as opposed to chasing my tail. Yeah. On the other side of the equation.

Rob: And, and, and I’m tying in, you know, I know we’re kind of looking at our notes. I’m, I’m, I’m riffing off of a couple of the different questions with this. Yeah.

I could see you’re all kind of like, where is he? Where he go?

Rob: Um. I’m, I’m thinking back to I think Kate, you were the one who first introduced us, uh, in an episode quite a while ago, is, uh, something I think you learned from, uh, Brene Brown.

I think, uh, and that this was around energy and, uh, even as a couple, you know, you come in and say, Hey, listen, I’m, I’m, I’m at a four, I’m at a two. Uh, right. Like, to me, that is such a. Powerful example of the giving [00:31:00] and receiving, um, tension in a relationship and how it can, uh, bring that relationship much stronger toge to, you know, to, uh, for people to come stronger together, is that ability to come in and say, and it’s hard for a lot of people to come in and say, Hey, today I’m at a two.

Kate: Yeah, it’s really hard. I, I

Rob: need you to show up as an eight, uh, to help to, right. I, I think of just recently being sick now, um, you know, we can joke around a man colds and, and I’m not somebody when I’m sick, who is, I don’t do well with someone. Taking care of me. No, you don’t. And, and, and does he become, is he grumpy?

And, and I, I, I struggle and, and so, and Wendy is such a, she’s, so, she was like, she was so good with just ch Hey, I’m, let me make you some soup. And, and I, the number of times I’d be like, no, no, no, don’t bother. I don’t wanna, I don’t like, I’m fine. I can take care of it. And, and, and she just ignores that and just goes ahead and does it.

And I’m [00:32:00] so grateful for it and made the point of after I was feeling better. Saying, thank you for putting up with my bullshit when I’m, when I’m grumpy like that. But yeah, it’s hard to, it’s hard to come in and say, Hey, I am a two today. Can you

Eric: be the eight? Well, well, like chronic, chronic use of, I’m fine.

And I’ve got it, uh, is a closed door. Yeah. And over time. Couples stop trying and teams stop showing up. Um, was that I wrote, resentment grows where reciprocity dies, and so when we continually send the message, I’m good, I’m good, I’m fine. I don’t need your help. Over time, it can actually be very damaging to a relationship because it’s in those moments, again, of openness and vulnerability where we let the other person in and we’re willing to let them see.

We don’t have our shit all together and that we have bad days and we have moments where we are needy. We are, and [00:33:00] not in a, but we have needs that, um, that they can, that they can meet. Now I’m still a firm believer that I am my, my primary. And best caregiver is me for me, and I don’t look to other people to do that.

I think that’s unhealthy if you look to others to meet your primary needs. But shutting people out from meeting needs in your life, um, is actually like, it’s a real closed door that can harm you and, and harm the relationship.

Kate: It, it’s also, it’s fucking exhausting. Like, I’m sorry, but like trying to keep it together all the time and not.

Receiving, not allowing help, not allowing the people who love you in, it’s actually exhausting because you’re constantly putting up this, it’s like the fight. You’re just constantly proving to yourself that you’re good, you’re good, you’re good. I don’t need anyone. I’m good. I got this. I got this. And that’s.

I think far more exhausting than actually being vulnerable in a moment and saying, Hey, [00:34:00] like the number of times my girlfriends will check in when I was single and I was sick. And they’re like, what do you need? And I’m like, I don’t need anything, but really I need medication. I need you to go get me soup.

Like, I feel like shit, I actually need a

Eric: ton of stuff. Can you just tell me that?

Kate: Like, I, you love me and I’m fantastic. Like I need all those things, but I won’t, I very rarely would ever accept it. And so, yeah.

What, what about, yeah.

Wendy: Well, you and I have had many conversations around, I don’t know if you say I’m stubborn.

I’m not. I don’t understand why.

Rob: I don’t remember. I don’t remember ever saying that I’m not stubborn,

Wendy: but you know, classic to me doing so much on my own for so many years and learning how to celebrate myself and I don’t need anybody else to celebrate me. You know, I’ve got my armor on, my crown is straight and I’m carefully holding up all the bricks that I’ve placed and or not so straight.

Right. Exactly. But you know, but I’m tired as fuck. Yeah. But it’s okay. I have it all under control. Everything is fine. And you in your [00:35:00] most annoying, calm, and steady voice.

I’m just kidding. I know.

Wendy: And you know, just your ability to be like, I’m not saying you don’t have it under control. You do have an under control.

You’re doing a great job. But let me. Take some of the burden off. Let me help you, let me give you a hand so that you have a little more room to breathe. Um, yeah.

Eric: Yeah, I think another, like whole other level, it’s uh, I mean I’m still working on, um, receiving it. Um, and I think in the right moments I’ve learned to ask.

Yeah, but it’s not, it’s not my go-to. But I think there’s, there’s like the courage to receive and then there’s the courage to actually ask Yeah.

Wendy: Whole and

Eric: say, I need help right now. I think that’s a great

Wendy: step of, a step of growth as well. Yeah.

Eric: I think huge. Because now you are, like, so far we’re talking about like when people reach out to us.

So it’s a, it’s a, we’re reacting or responding to somebody else’s, uh, generosity or, or kindness. Uh, here we’re talking about like, [00:36:00] I’m initiating. Uh, I am putting up my hand going, Hey, um, can you help me with this? Uh, I could really use your support, or, um, and again, uh, I think that requires an even deeper level of vulnerability, courage, and authenticity.

Kate: Yeah. Your, your partner, your friends, your fam, they’re not mind readers. Like they don’t know, you know, and. Everyone has their own stuff going on. And so it’s, you can’t always know what is actually happening with the other person. Yes, you can see your person’s busy or you can see they’re, uh, they’re hurting, but you don’t always really know and you can ask, what do you need in this moment?

And I, we’ve had this conversation. Well, Eric will ask me, and I’ve said it a thousand times, I don’t fucking know what I need right now. Right. Like, I just, I know I need something, but I, I don’t. I don’t know what I need. Yeah. But the, the ability I think to ask is, is what you just said is really critical because it’s so important to also have that growth, to be able to ask for what you need.

Yeah.

Eric: [00:37:00] It’s, and, and one of the great responses, sorry Rob, I didn’t mean to speak over you, but, uh, um, I think you and I practice this, uh, um, and I believe you guys do as well. We’ve talked about it on the show, this whole, um, you know, what do you need? How can I help? Um, as opposed ’cause ’cause let’s face it like men are fixers.

So the second we like we, when something’s wrong, we fix shit. Like that’s what we do. That’s where we feel most comfortable and capable. And so we, we double down on that stuff and we often like try to fix something and that’s actually what. That’s not what’s required. Sometimes all, you know, we’ve talked about this, sometimes you just need a someone to listen or you like, you just, you just someone to empathize and, um, and so not defaulting.

So to the men listening, don’t default to fix mode, uh, when your significant other is indicating any kind of need. Um, check in. Uh, what, what do you need? How can I help? We’ll save you for probably several nights of [00:38:00] sleeping on the couch.

Rob: When I, um, I, I, I shared that with a client, uh, back a couple months ago now, and, uh, and he was like, uh, everything we talked about in that coaching session, that was, and so even though I, I, I, at the end of my coaching session, I often review, okay, so here’s the homework, here’s what you’re gonna do over the, you know, we’re gonna work.

It’s

Eric: so funny. We talk business and all this other stuff, stuff, and all of sudden they’re like, oh my God. Yeah,

Rob: yeah. And, and, and, and I start to go, okay, so let’s just review the homework you’re gonna do. And he goes, no, no, no. There’s only one thing I’m doing. He says, I’m, I wanna practice that for the next, for the, for the next month.

And I’m like, okay, okay. I had other stuff for you to do too, but, okay. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and just how that shift there is something that shifts when we see receiving as a gift. Um, and I remember having these conversations with my girls when they were quite young because, uh, up until probably the last.

Four or five years that I was in the church world before that, just about every place that I worked as a, as a pastor, I was making less than, uh, you [00:39:00] know, the, I was basically below the poverty line. Uh, I was not, you certainly don’t go into ministry to get rich. Most mother

Eric: not well, unless you live in the Bible belt in the us Yeah.

Rob: And, and, and I can remember times where people would bring groceries over or they would stop by with, oh fuck. And, and, and, uh, I remember that and I remember one time somebody brought, came over and brought a computer and it was like, for, and I, I didn’t, it was for one of the girls, they had an extra computer and ah, we thought maybe, and I remember saying to my girls early on.

Treat these as gifts, that this is somebody who is choosing, they want to bless you and they’re doing this and out of giving to you. They’re going to be able to receive a blessing from that. Yeah. And, and to really learn that. But what does shift when we, when we take that mindset of receiving as a gift?

Eric: Yeah. It’s a gift to the giver. A hundred percent. Yeah. Um, for me it shifts a lot. Like, uh, when I start to see it not as a debt that I now owe. [00:40:00] Right. It’s like I don’t wanna be in debt to anybody. And when you, when you receive like you’re gonna do something, I’m like, hmm. It’s like, are we keeping track on that track of that?

Is that going on a spreadsheet with interest? Like, uh, um, so, but it moves from this debt thing. A debt I owe rather than a connection I get to nurture. Right. Um. When someone’s being generous and is giving and offering help what you’re, and when you receive it, I think what you’re saying to them is, I trust you with me in this moment.

Right. I trust that you’re doing, you got my best interest at heart. It’s, again, it’s a, it’s, it’s, um, it’s the opposite of a fear-based or control based response. And it’s, it’s an ’cause both of those are close hearted. Um. It’s an open-hearted response. It’s, uh, from crossing your arms to opening your palms and, and Right.

An open gesture of saying, I’m, I’m allowing you in.

Kate: It’s the vulnerability piece, which is what increases that connection [00:41:00] piece. Yeah. But it’s hard.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah. It’s really hard. Connection is the big piece because I think it turns the whole exchange from it. Like it takes the whole exchange from obligation into connection, which, which really is a win for both people.

Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s moving

Eric: away from, I’m only va For me, I’m only valuable when I’m giving. Again, that that runs, uh, still runs strong. Um, but think of it this way, if people weren’t offering to help, weren’t offering to support you, uh, it’s actually the, the fact that they’re doing that is a sign of your worth and your value.

Uh, right. And yet we treat it as. Uh, the opposite. Uh, it kind of, wow. Yeah. I’m just realizing that as I said it out loud.

Rob: That’s, that’s powerful. We’ve, we’re four or five minutes left here. We’re, we’re gonna kinda start to land the plane. Let’s get real practical with, with, uh, how do we, how do we do this better?

How do we, how do we really do that? First this, how do we know when [00:42:00] we’re receiving genuinely. Like, how do we know when this is not just going through the motions or, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Thank you. Thank you. You know how, how do we know when? That’s tough. I’ll tell you when I figure it out. Okay.

Yeah. No, I’m kidding.

Stay tuned for part. Stay tuned for part two.

Wendy: I think you feel it. I think you learn to not percent, you know, I think, you know, we sometimes tend to gravitate to making jokes. Mm-hmm. Or to just deflecting. You know, changing the subject. I think when you find yourself not doing that as much and really genuinely feeling it, I think that’s when the shift

Kate: Yeah.

And when you pause a little bit. Yep. Like you’re not rushing through to your like, thank you. Great. Off we go. Like I think you’re pausing. Yes. And you’re feeling, and I think those two things make a big difference. Yeah.

Eric: Yeah. I would agree with all of that. Yeah. It’s you, you feel it in your body. You, uh, there’s a pace shift.

Uh, there’s an energy shift, um, and I think the other person feels that as well.

Rob: You got people listening, [00:43:00] people watching, and they’re Okay, I’m ready. I’m ready to start. Or maybe they’re not, or maybe I’m not. Yeah. But for those, I don’t even know if I’m, but for those that are ready. Alright. So for what advice would you guys give to Eric?

Yes, please. I’m a, I’m an open book, uh, you know, for someone who is saying, okay, I, I am, I think I, I know that you sold me on the value of this, of this being a gift of this. Uh, I want to get. More connected with those closest to me by, by, uh, engaging in this practice of receiving, uh, what would you say to them?

What would be a way to get started on this?

Kate: I, I think you have to do your own work. And what I mean by that is you have to bel leave sometimes with the other. Person is saying you have to believe it first. And I think at your core, if you don’t believe it, you’re not gonna believe it when someone else says it.

And so I think the work is really with you. [00:44:00] Yeah, I think you have to. You have to. If someone says you’re beautiful and you don’t feel like you’re beautiful, use a high level one, but. You, you’re gonna, you’ll deflect. You’ll be like, oh no. You know what? Oh, I just threw this. Oh, this whole thing. Like, you’ll deflect and deflect and deflect.

And so I think the work is for, it’s a self. It’s a job you have to do for yourself first to feel worthy so that when someone else says it, you’re like, oh yeah. Like, you know, I know that. And then, but it’s nice to hear it, but it’s like you don’t, like, you don’t require it for belief or for worth.

Eric: Right. I learning to, there’s a difference.

Learning to receive. I just, the phrase that came to mind is an inside job uhhuh, and it begins with. The work of radical self-acceptance and self-acceptance doesn’t start as radical. Sometimes it starts as barely there. Um, and but little by little step by step, as you begin to work on your understanding that you are already as worthy and valuable as [00:45:00] you’ll ever be.

You don’t need to do anything to earn that. You don’t do anything to prove that, that it’s actually something you just possess as a human being is in, is incredible worth and incredible value. But I know it took me a long time to get there and, uh, we preach it now that it’s like when, I don’t think you could have said it any better.

Like how can, how can I receive? I think I, part of why I struggled for so long is how could I receive, I didn’t believe I deserved it. I’m like, if you only knew. If you only knew the real me, if you only knew the, the, the thoughts that run through my head and the anxiety that I live with and the the fear that I’m gonna get found out and exposed for, uh, right.

The scared little kid that I really am standing in front of this room trying to lead all these other people. Um, I’m like, you’re gonna be running out the door as fast as I wanna run out the door sometimes. Um, but when you do that work it, you open the door. For that to happen more and more. I, that was beautifully said.

Rob: I, I love that for sure. Okay, so we’re, we’re giving advice to those who are ready to [00:46:00] receive. What about those who are not yet ready to receive and they’re like, alright, I just want to be a better giver. Um, let’s make the argument that how receiving, learning how to be a good receiver will make you a better giver.

How would that play in?

Eric: Yeah. Well, that’s a good question. That’s a, that’s a good question. Well, I think for many of the reasons we’ve already said, like, um, uh, uh, when you, when you learn to receive, uh, I think you learn real generosity because I think a lot of the giving for and being, um, a, like an overperforming giver who slides into erasing himself in the process, I can say that, um, what I’m learning is that.

Often that giving and my generosity, a lot of it’s genuine. It’s part of who I am, but there are times where when I’m overdoing it, that literally it’s fear-based, it’s control based. It’s, it’s about, it’s all [00:47:00] about me. You talked about it earlier, you said, well, that for me, it’s very genuine when I give gifts and I think we slide into it.

So learning to receive, I think you, you learn both. It’s like you’re living on one side of the coin. And you’re missing the whole other side. Right. So it’s incomplete.

Kate: Yeah, that’s well said. I think being, uh, a receiver in theory anyways, I think. Means for me is, is giving with intention to a very specific group of people.

I think a lot of people give because it makes them feel good and they give all over the place. And when you start receiving from the people you really care about, I think the narrative shifts to you wanting to really give to those people that you care about and the fleeting like giving that soaks you or like sucks you dry.

I think those. Minimize. I think when you receive wholeheartedly, you give wholeheartedly and you’re not just giving to give

Eric: the, the image I just got was, um, we want to be the star quarterback. [00:48:00] We’re calling the plays, we’re passing the ball, right? We’re driving it down the field and we have receivers.

Right. But we like. Maybe I like being the stark word. Yeah. Uhhuh.

Wendy: Yeah. Yeah.

What about what, how about for you?

Wendy: Well, I don’t, I don’t think I have really anything else to add that like I, what Kate said and like what both of you said really tied into what my thoughts as well. I think a lot of it starts with working on yourself and thinking about the.

Like tuning into being present and that then in my feelings really start to over spill into joy that then overflows versus obligation.

Rob: The star quarterback, um, before he can give the ball, has to receive the ball and, uh, in, in, in fuck you for a third time. [00:49:00] And, and it is, it has happened many times where, um.

If, if that’s the guy who’s the center, uh, it goes injured and they have to bring in somebody who’s, who has, does not have that relationship with the quarterback, that game falls apart real quick because the quarterback is not good at receiving from someone he hasn’t learned to receive from. And so you’re right.

So start where it’s safe. The star quarterback Yeah. Yeah. Starts where it’s safe with the right receiver. And I think that this is, I knew it was a great analogy when I thought of it times. It was a great. Uh, as I always say, um, uh, listen, thank you guys. Wow. Great conversation. And I, and I wanna say, Eric, especially, I’m gotta go pro now.

You’ve been very vulnerable today and I, and I so appreciate it. And, and for all of you that are listening and tuning in, thank you. Uh, this, we’ve, we’ve covered a lot today. And, uh, here’s the beauty is that you don’t need to carry or work through all of this on your own. Uh, we’ve created the Living Richly Nation just for that, uh, purpose so that you can [00:50:00] be around other, like.

Minded people wanna encourage you to check that out. You can go to the Living Richly website, living richly.me, and you’ll see a link to the Facebook group and you can check everything out there. And for those of you that are business owners and leaders and organizations, we are so grateful for our sponsor, Rhapsody Strategies.

Wanna encourage you to check out the website, rhapsody strategies.com, where you can learn all about the different business offerings that we have. You don’t need to go at it alone either as a leader of an organization or a business owner who is continually giving. To others. Uh, take, give yourself the gift of receiving coaching.

Uh, we would be so happy to talk to you about that. Uh, thank you everyone for tuning in. Make sure that you share out this episode with those that you think could receive, uh, from it today. Uh, and until then, get out there and enjoy your best [00:51:00] life.