Why Midlife Is Killing Men – And What You Can Do About It

Why Midlife Is Killing Men – And What You Can Do About It

Kwandwo: [00:00:00] For example, if you’re an entrepreneur and you get to that stage where you got the house, you got the car, whatever, maybe that was your why, but is that your

Anmar: true why? I can give you the medication, the antidepressant that you’re feeling, but you’re gonna come back in three months. It’s feeling the same thing.

Yeah. Because you have not changed the fundamentals. There’s a

Kwandwo: movement. Yeah. I’m seeing amongst men that. That vulnerability, that willingness to connect and have those meaningful connections, as you alluded to. Because

Anmar: it, it matters. I’m working, I’m providing for my family, and then when things shit hits the fan, that’s when we realize, okay, now I gotta take care of myself.

But it’s two date

Eric: Hey Nation, and welcome to the show. We’re so glad that you have. Tuned in again with us this week, and today’s gonna be a really powerful conversation about men at midlife. It’s a time that most men are supposed to hit their stride, but in reality, for a lot of men, it’s a time when things [00:01:00] start to fall apart.

And in the studio today, we’ve got two leadership coaches and two doctors that are here to talk about the effects of midlife on men. Everything from the slow burn of stress to the physical decline, to the emotional isolation that we just don’t talk about. And it’s gonna be a real game changer whether you’re a man tuning in or there’s an important man in your life, you’re gonna wanna listen in.

This could literally save a life. ‘Cause the stats don’t lie and the silence that men are living with is deadly. We’re gonna break this wide open. Anmar, so great to have you here. I have admired you both big fans of yours and to meet you for the first time. Quadra is really great. Anmar.

You and I have had a chance to work together and know each other better. But to have you both on the show today is a great honor. You both are great advocates of mental, physical health and taking good care of ourselves. And for men, it’s a problem. So let’s start with a gut check here. If you were to describe Midlife for Men in one word, what word would you choose and why?

Kwandwo: I think it’s isolating. [00:02:00] I hate to say it, and maybe it’s making me a little bit vulnerable here, but a lot of us, we’re striving for success. Yeah. We climb this ladder. And. In my example, I’m department head. There’s not many of us. You have these huge aspirations and there’s not as many people to share it with.

Yeah, there’s not many confidants. There’s not many people that you could go to, to sit to to go through your similar experience. And as we get older, we get more, I don’t know, rigid in our ways. It’s hard. It’s harder to be vulnerable, it’s harder to be. Open to say like what your real concerns are.

You’re trying to manage family life. Trying to stay married. Like I’m still on my first wife, just to just joking chat. I call her first wife, first gig. Yeah. This is going good. She loves it. We’re just not gonna tell her that you said that she cannot watch this episode.

Listen, she doesn’t watch any of my shit. She’s like another clip of you. I’m. But just honestly, just it’s [00:03:00] been, I find it been isolating. Especially, I had a bit of a unique situation during the pandemic too, where you’re doing a lot of advocacy and covering a lot of tough topics and people felt that they couldn’t speak.

1. Openly about certain things. And so when you’re going out there and most of the stuff that you’re getting is hate, speak back towards you, you feel like you’re on an island. But yeah. Yeah. I gotta say overall though, especially conversations like this, things are moving in the right direction.

Yeah. Amazing. Amazing. But I love that. Love that.

Anmar: For me, it’s a checkpoint. It’s a checkpoint where you realize, you’ve do, you’ve done what, you’ve done all this life and you’ve accomplished what, where you are. My journey is different from Qro. So I immigrated to Canada and so I uprooted and came to Canada at the age of 30.

And so really now I’m my mid, the late forties, not mid forties. I’m realizing, okay, I have worked hard. I have achieved what I wanted to achieve. I’m on that cruise mode, but then it’s a checkpoint now where I feel that I need [00:04:00] that sense of community and that sense of men around me, or just a community that helps me okay, realize what I have done.

Is it enough? Am I fulfilled? And so really all those questions check, like when you are in midlife, and I don’t even know what midlife is now, at what age are we defining midlife? I

Rob: and it’s such a, that’s a great question because I was gonna ask is midlife even real?

Is this one of those made up kind of midlife crisis Yeah. Cycle. Yeah. But is midlife crisis a legit thing that happens and when we think of men in our forties and fifties, what are some of those psychological or emotional changes that are happening within us?

Kwandwo: I think it’s real personally.

Yeah. I’ll just speak more on my opinion than like medical literature, but you, your te testosterone levels are gonna start going down. You’re lo you’re gonna be losing your lean muscle mass. All these things that are tied to your mood and to your, and sense of purpose. So I think it’s real. I’ve, I. I was waiting.

When I hit 40, I was like, okay, here’s my midlife. Here I go. I’m gonna start [00:05:00] having the crisis and so forth. And to be honest with you, it’s been more closer as I approach 50 because you realize, especially in my line of work. We’re not gonna live forever. And there’s a lot of things I’m hoping to accomplish.

Yeah. And now I feel like that clock is taken. Yeah. And 10 years ago, 15 years ago, you felt like you got all the time in the world. But there’s one thing to be, ’cause there’s a lot of aspects of aging like you could. A lot of us, I believe, will probably live a long, longer life.

But it’s the quality of life. Yeah. They use the term like lifespan versus healthspan. Yeah. Yeah. And that’s to me is my question mark is as I get older, as I’m want to be able to try and create these. These amazing enterprises and move the needle when it comes to healthcare, and am I gonna be in a state where I can enjoy it and really feel fulfilled?

And so I got a tick and a clock on behind me saying let’s hustle. Yeah. Actually, not to digress, but on the way here, I [00:06:00] just listened to an Alex Ramzy oh yeah. A podcast. It is a 12 minute one and on. On decision making and speed and how valuable he’s found that to be. And it’s something I personally take very seriously is decision making in general, but that velocity.

Yeah. And I think this is something that, and unfortunately because of that, that clock behind me is. Being accelerated in so many ways.

Eric: It’s interesting because as we get in on this side of the table, we have the 40 somethings. Yeah. On this side of the table we have the 50 somethings.

Okay. I just recently turned 54. I know I don’t look a day over 53 but I am, and I recently you become very aware that I have lived more. Years than I have left. Yeah. And I wanna make those years really count. And there was a time I could not have said this but recently Kate and I were having a conversation and I said to her, I’d been reflecting to say, you know what when I think about, I.

My life at this stage, I believe I still got lots of years to give [00:07:00] and lots of good things to do and accomplish. But if I drop dead tomorrow, which I don’t plan to, I might being around a very long time I could do that feeling very satisfied that my life has been on point, my life has been on purpose that I found. And I think that’s the shift. Yeah. I think as we get older. It’s less about success. And it’s more about significance.

Rob: It’s funny ’cause Kate, Wendy and I were talking about this a little bit earlier. She shared that story and said that and she said her response was, yeah, but I’m not good with it.

That’s good. She still wants be around. I

Eric: was testing back up there.

Anmar: I think to follow up on what Quadro said in terms of the changes or that kind of midlife point. It’s, yes, your testosterone trial changes, your body starts to change, your cognitive decision making also starts to slow down.

But what I really found that kind of midlife crisis or checkpoint is the identity. Because you work up your whole life into that kind of point where you’re building building. You’ve achieved that identity and then you’re like at a. [00:08:00] Edge of a cliff where, okay, do I maintain that identity?

Do I jump further and go further? And that’s where I find a lot of men struggle with that, is losing their self, losing their identity. It’s I’m a father, I’m a doctor. I’ve done this. But then now what?

Eric: Exactly. It’s the, we refer to it on the show as the supposed life. I followed the formula.

Yeah. I did all this stuff that I’m supposed to do. Yeah. And even and a lot of men find themselves at midlife, not where they had envisioned. Being that they’re not as successful or achieved or whatever. And for men, I think we find our sense of identity and worth in what we do.

It’s like our accomplishments and our sense of worth are so closely linked. And that’s really dangerous. Yeah. And I think that’s why midlife, a lot of men start to come apart. Yes. Yeah.

Kwandwo: It’s a very good point. It, I had this epiphany relatively recently, and I actually added a chapter in my new book about this.

It’s, it really comes down to purpose. Yeah. What is our drive, what’s our why? Yeah. And I think a lot of times when you’re young you’re figuring it [00:09:00] out. And then as you get older, you’re you might lose that. Like you, like for example, if you’re an entrepreneur and you get to that.

Stage where you got the house, you got the car, whatever. Maybe that was your why, but is that your true? Why is that what’s really driving you? Like you guys were talking about stuff versus, for lack of a better word, things versus impact. Yeah. And to me that’s a real driver. What is the impact that you’re gonna leave And when you do link with or you’re aligned with your impact, your why and what will drive you.

Everything seems to fall into place. Mentally, physically, like if you’re lost, that’s more like. I’m more likely to pound down some double cheeseburgers with no pickle. That’s that’s my go-to. Good to know. At mc, yeah. McDonald’s if you ever goes to drop and buy some mcd dick’s.

Yeah. Double cheeseburger. No pickle. I won’t say no. But yeah, I think when you don’t have that purpose, this is when a lot of things fall [00:10:00] apart. And I do wonder if that’s one of the drivers as we age

Rob: well and our aren’t guys, and we’re wired for legacy, right? You think about all through history, that’s what it was about.

Living forever was how you passed on your legacy. And even to this day, right? If you’re famous, you do something well, you get a name, a street named after you. You somehow you Or an empire. Or an empire, right? Exactly. You want your, you want that out of that purpose. It’s how do I live forever through the legacy that I’m building?

Whatever that is. Yeah. And when we’re younger, we’re not thinking that way. No. It’s, as we get older, we’re like, what? What am I leaving behind? How am I impacting my kids future generations? Whatever that might be. And I think that’s why a lot of men at midlife, again, if they’re not. Lived a deliberate life, an intentional life.

Eric: Let’s face it, most of us don’t. We talk on the show all the time about how most human beings just coast through life instead of choosing, they drift instead of deciding. And so we end up somewhere. Yeah. But it’s not necessarily what we signed up for. And when you [00:11:00] reach midlife and you feel like your life’s not been on point it can be a pretty scary journey to start asking that question. So what I. Who am I? What do I stand for? Yeah. And how I’m, am I gonna redirect my life into something more meaningful? Yeah. Than just the day-to-day grind.

Anmar: As a family physician, I see that day in, day out with men who have retired recently.

Their kids have gone to school. Their houses are empty, and I think it’s. That fear of being insignificant. It’s, that’s it. There’s a war. I am. Yeah. I am not significant anymore. Yeah. And I always think of Quadro as well, okay, what is he doing? He’s an ICU doc, he’s got a podcast, he is solving healthcare, and I think.

What I think about you you are, you’re creating that significance beyond just being the identity of you just being an ICU doctor or a business coach, right? You’re creating more so that you maintain that significance, you maintain that contribution because once men lose that, I have seen many men come after retirement, six months asking for antidepressants because yeah.

What are they doing? They’re going grocery shopping. They’re coming back. They’re [00:12:00] mowing the lawn. You can only golf so much. Absolutely.

Kwandwo: Just to reinforce it. They die. Yeah. I see that on a regular basis, like they, six months after retirement, 18 months after retirement, where they lost their purpose they lost their drive.

Yeah. And things just totally fall apart. Yeah. And so you see that also in not to get too morbid, but if they lose their spouse especially if they lose their wife, that’s another one, another period where they spiral. But thanks for the kind word, by the way. Yeah.

Rob: We, and we’ve seen that, right?

We you had the stats at one point. Yeah. Where we saw this where for men in particular, the stats around suicide rates are so significant because all,

Eric: there are four out of five suicides in the US are men. It’s four times higher. Than the suicide rates among women. And in Canada it’s three out of four and often it’s insane.

And often it’s a pandemic we don’t talk about. Yeah. And it’s because their entire community is their wife, is their spouse. And when they’re gone now they have no one because they haven’t cultivated and built those strong relationships like the [00:13:00] true heartfelt relationships with other men.

Rob: They’re lost at that stage. It’s interesting that you’d say that. Yeah.

Kwandwo: And. Like I said, you guys are part of the puzzle here, but there’s a movement. Yeah. I’m seeing amongst men that vulnerability, that willingness to connect and have those meaningful connections as you alluded to.

Because it, it matters. I honestly I truly believe that for that fulfillment, for that. That ability to feel connected, it’s, it

Anmar: needs to happen. Yeah, I think the pandemic just skyrocketed this. And again, I see that with younger men as well, where now you know, they’re working from home and so really they’re not interacting with a lot of people.

It’s easy for them to roll out of bed. Go on their laptops still in their sweatpants at home. They don’t go out as much. And like I have examples of men who’s like, how do you, what do you do throughout the day? It’s I go out for a smoke and come back and work. And so that’s isolation. Not being surrounded by other men.

I think, I. Back in the day, men were working in factories and production lines, and [00:14:00] you are interacting with men every day and with just the general people and the population. Yeah. That helps you grow, that helps you develop, that helps you learn. We’re social creatures. We’re not meant to live.

You use

Eric: the word

Anmar: isolate,

Eric: right? Yeah. The beginning. Yeah. And we’re not meant to live in isolation and we don’t talk about ’cause men, period. We’ve been conditioned not to talk about it. Yeah. If we’re struggling. Yeah. The the common mantra is just rub some dirt on it. Just get over it, figure it out.

To be vulnerable is to be weak. Yeah. I remember when we first started having these conversations, men’s specific conversations, and we had some pretty negative backlash online who said, you guys are contributing to everything that make men weak. Vulnerability is for women. This was the kind of stuff you’re hearing.

Yeah. Yeah. And we’re like, no, actually that silence, that strong upper lip that keep it all to yourself, that’s actually what’s killing men. Yeah. They’re bottling it up. They’re keeping it all inside. Yeah. They’re isolated from one another. ’cause we’ve. We talk about how hard it is at our age to make friends, right?

Yeah. And to build that community. So when we reach that certain age, and now we’re not feeling a sense of purpose and we’re feeling a little [00:15:00] lost. Yeah. Is it any wonder that midlife

Anmar: can be so difficult for us? Yeah. A couple. A couple. Yeah. Go. Sorry, go ahead. A couple of weeks ago, I had a young man come in with workplace accommodations and wanting to work from home because now the mandate is going back and I said.

Absolutely not. I, this is exactly what we’re trying not to do for you. You are gonna be isolated, you’re gonna be working at home, you’re gonna be at your basement in sweatpants all day. In three months, you’re gonna come back and say, what am I doing? I’m like, no, you need to go to the office.

You need, yes. We don’t like, I bet you weren’t his best friend at that point. And I’m sick, I’m not everyone’s cup of tea. Probably tweeted about it.

All: Got a Google review. Google review

Anmar: but I see it in myself, yeah. I see it in my if I am at home for a couple of days, not going out and not dressing up. And not showing up, yeah. It’s going to affect my mood. It’s gonna affect everyone around me as well. Yeah. Yeah. Can I just

Kwandwo: say too, that, I know this is, we’re talking men and midlife, but I am.

Legit scared about our youth. [00:16:00] Yeah. I, the obviously the pandemic. I hope this is not too controversial to say, but it was part of the reason why I wrote the first book was I, kids didn’t, they didn’t learn how to lead. They didn’t learn how to approach significant problems in a way that was value focused as opposed to fear.

Yeah. And. Remember when we were all kids, if there was some kind of craziness happening in society, whether it’s university or in high school, there would be an uproar. Yeah. There people would be outside pre protesting or whatever. There were kids that were saying you couldn’t go to school ’cause of whatever policy, and there was nothing.

Yeah. There was nothing. And this was crazy. And I’m seeing this in our youth and I’m like, what the hell is happening? Like the, obviously everything that I always mentioned, you’re isolated, you’re stuck on a screen, you’re just being like drained mentally and physically, emotionally, spiritually.

Yeah. But this is who we’re, [00:17:00] this is the people that are gonna run the country one day, man. Yeah. This is scary shit. So to me, like this message, not only for us at our stage, but for our youth and. We’re all, I think we’re all fathers. Yeah. Yeah. I’m trying to be that example for the littles.

Like I’m married to a psychologist, so it’s a little bit easier. Is it?

I’m like, she’s asking me how I feel about shit. I’m like, are you doing it again? You doing it again? Leave me alone. Stop analyzing. Exactly. But it was, it’s more the kids, like the ability, like the importance of I’m raising three sons and I, I. And I grew up old school. You don’t talk about your emotions.

You don’t talk about how things are feeling, suck it up, get up. And that’s my tendency. But when my 6-year-old, he got hit in the face with a basketball my, my old school self is get up and,

All: get going.

Kwandwo: And then the [00:18:00] other side is he’s six and he is scared, addresses his concerns, but obviously encourage him now, Hey, get out there.

’cause that’s, yeah, that’s our identity, man. Yeah. We gotta face it. Face. Yeah. A hundred percent. And

Eric: I think we’ve had lots of other men on the show. Yeah. When we’ve done these, we call them mindful masculinity series. Choose the kind of man you want to be. Don’t let society, dick. Tate to you, the old forms and the old norms that are so unhealthy.

And so many times the topic of what about our young men? Yeah. That we actually need to start when they’re kids, when they’re young. ’cause often by the time they reach our age think of how hard, I don’t know your, all of your stories. We’ve talked openly about our journey on the show.

I ended up. Burning out three times over the course of my career was very much committed to purpose, but had all of this brokenness that I had never dealt with inside. And this was impacting me pretty significantly, right? Depression, anxiety, the rest of it. Most people would look at me and say, I not you.

And I said, oh, you just didn’t know the whole story. Of course. And but we need to [00:19:00] start. The, we need to start rewriting the program before the program gets too set in our young men. When you think of the Andrew Tates of the world, you think of the Jordan Petersons and the other that are sending a very mixed message about ma, what it means to be a man in today’s world.

I think part of rediscovering purpose for men in their forties and fifties is to be that example to the younger generation. Yeah. By taking that courageous step. And going first and opening up and demonstrating that we don’t need to be broken emotionally or like it’s it, what did we said on the show, most men live in black and white.

They’re, they don’t live in technicolor ’cause they’ve literally cut off an entire part of their being, which is their emotional self. It was a bill Burr. It was this great piece. I posted about it this morning. Saw that I had seen it. So I laughed when I saw your post. He does this great piece on then have two emotions, anger or I’m okay, I’m fine. I’m fine. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It rages a little bit and then in his way, it his way. Exactly. Somebody asks them, how you doing? I’m fine. I’m fine. I’m,

Anmar: we know. We know how the [00:20:00] feeling spectrum. We just don’t know how to express it. We don’t know how to express.

Yeah. And I saw that the same thing wow, this is profound. Yeah. And it’s true. Yeah. We do that every day. But I think, yeah, some of the younger men don’t have those role models and I think we need to show them. So this morning, I’m. Dressing up and showing, trying to come here. So Zane might 10 year old’s like, where are you going, Papa, are you early?

I’m going to record a podcast episode. And he comes to me, he is you’re just gonna get one of you. So why are you doing it? Dude, thank you so much. So I have to sit down with him. He is even though I’m gonna get one of you, it’s okay. I’m still gonna show up. I’m still gonna go and do and talk.

I like he was just doing it. He’s very concerned for you. Very concerned. Yeah. Like you’re just gonna get one view. Why do you do it? You just.

Rob: We know that men we bottle it inside. We struggle again, we, with those emotions. You guys are doctors and I’m real curious about this. The stereotype as most men, they avoid doctors.

It’s the last resort and I can speak from experience from not that long ago, I had a case of hives and it was breaking up pretty bad and it was. I thought you had leprosy me. Yeah. Be honest. [00:21:00] I thought I away from you, but I just figured as long, as, long as it didn’t hit my face, I was good. I could hide it.

And it was my wife who finally was like, for fuck’s sake, go see the doctor. You are that guy. I’m, I am that guy. And I’m fine. I’m fine. I, it’ll just, it’ll go away in a couple of days. Yeah. It’ll clear up and it didn’t until I finally saw a doctor and actually got a treatment.

What’s. Is it true that’s what guys are like? And then what’s one of the craziest excuses or stories that of a guy coming to you that was a, refusing to come and came to you and you’re like, how on earth did you dot come six months ago? Believe me, Rob, every day I

Anmar: men like you every day, they’re

Kwandwo: coming here like men, me every day. My,

Anmar: yeah. Thank you. My wife told me I like to come here because I have this okay, yes, great, you’ve got an ally. But we always outsource that care to another person. And so that’s where we do not advocate for our own health. It’s because we regress in a way to that kind of like young boy, small boy, somebody has to look after us or.

If [00:22:00] we are looking after ourselves, then we are seen as needy, or we are seen as, oh, someone who’s you gotta keep calm and carry on, and that kind of mantra, that man had a heart attack and fell like, yeah, but we saw the signs. We could have prevented that.

But it’s just that kind of no, I’m just going, I’m working, I’m providing for my family. And then when things shit hits the fan. That’s when we realized, okay, now I gotta take care of myself. But it’s to date.

Kwandwo: Yeah. I the same thing. I go I see it unfortunately, when it’s.

Life threatening. So you see the delay in heart attacks symptoms. They’re just like, oh, it’s fine. Indigestion. It’s fine. And they don’t wake up. And yeah. And then you see, I was thinking of, I can’t give too much details, but people with basically their limb is about to fall off.

Like they’re the blood flow to their limb is soap poor, but they’re like, you know what, I’ll tough it out. And by the time they see you. It needs to be chopped off so it’s wild. And let’s be honest, I won’t lie. Like I’m I almost feel [00:23:00] like being in the medical profession, I delay shit as much as possible.

That up my eyes. You gonna put that in my dingdong? I don’t think so. Yeah. We all need to get our prostate colonoscopies and so forth, so don’t, get it done. Just take that ring off.

All: Yeah.

Kwandwo: Where’s my oral ring? Shit, I need my data. Oh my God. It’s reading the wrong data.

It’s reading the wrong. Oh man. Things haven’t moved with in a long time. Holy cow. You’re older.

All: Is this is terrible.

Kwandwo: Yeah. But yeah, the

Eric: so I was raised my dad was a successful businessman here locally. He had his own accounting firm, very successful and. Then he and my mother moved down to California.

They were doing some humanitarian work in Tijuana Mexico area. And he was always like, from a young age, I remember saying, doctors are useless. And he had a reason to [00:24:00] say that he was resistant to it because he had suffered with like really bad migraines most of his adult life, and doctors could do nothing for him.

They just had been unable to find a way to. To help him. And so he was al I would hear him, doctors are useless, don’t bother and he died. He would end up dying at the age of 66 after a two year battle with lung cancer, never smoked a day in his life. And I’ve always wondered, did he wait too long?

To go see the doc because he was feeling a certain way, and if he had gone sooner. Could they have done more for him? So I’ve taken that lesson to heart, of course. And it used to require Kate prompting me quite a bit to go show up at the doctor. And now when something’s not feeling right, I’m like, you know what?

I’ve got too much to do. I’ve got too much purpose to live. I can’t I don’t want to be taken out by something. I just ignore it. So I’m actually that guy now that goes, okay, something’s wrong. My doc lately, he’s I keep seeing you more regularly. Like normally you’d come in every. Five years and only ’cause something’s wrong.

It’s I know Doc. I’m trying to, I’m trying to do better at, at my age,

Kwandwo: but that’s a magic. I’m not gonna digress a bit, but that’s a magic of having [00:25:00] that primary care access. Like seeing someone like Mr. Like to know that you could address these issues before they become a problem. Like we saw, unfortunately over the course of the pandemic because people weren’t seeing their doctors and so forth.

We saw so many late cases. Yes. Like stuff that was, you’d see these. Tumors in people’s head and necks that were like beyond resection or beyond surgery because of they’ve gone too far. As much as Yeah, they might be teasing you, there’s a lot of credibility in addressing those needs early.

Eric: Yeah. Yeah. Preventative care versus I think your start you’ve rebranded your podcast. Yeah. I think it’s what, prevention over prescription or something like that, right?

Kwandwo: Yeah, it was, it’s I like talking to stuff too with Anmar. ’cause we don’t learn about this shit too much in medical school about the preventative health side.

If you ask me how much I learned about nutrition, I want to say maybe an hour. Yeah, I don’t remember an exercise lecture. I don’t re, maybe it was an hour on sleep, but more on what we could do to [00:26:00] recognize issues with sleep, like sleep apnea and so forth. But if we did put a little bit more emphasis on the preventative side.

To me it could be magical because by the time they land with us you don’t come with, you don’t come out the same person. And, yeah.

Rob: And you’ve got different types of doctors. I remember I family doctor for a lot of years. She’s retired now, but, and she, I felt she was just, I.

A pill pusher and right for her. Every, everything I came in for, she had a prescription for it. And I remember I, I’d have arguments with her and say you can prescribe that. I’m not taking it. Give me work harder, give me another solution. Yeah. And then you have doctors who really do understand.

No. At times a prescription is the absolute best solution. And I take, for blood pressure I recognize for your leprosy, you mean, and for my leprosy, I was taking stuff and let me touch you. Oh, the can we leave? No. I’m just making sure that Lepro he’s spreading, he’s doing, spreading the joy.[00:27:00]

Keep

Eric: that joy to yourself.

Rob: But you’re right. There is sometimes even for doctors, there can be. Lazy doctors who just, I’ll just do this and figure it out. Or there’s doctors who say, okay, I’m gonna understand I’m gonna prescribe prevention. Before I prescribe other stuff. Yeah.

Anmar: I think Rob, it’s the way the health system is set up as well.

Our health. System is reactive, is not proactive. Oh yeah. And so the way physicians are compensated and the way we get paid is basically it’s easier for me to, okay, here’s a prescription for you, but if I spend more time, then that’s gonna okay, I’m gonna get paid the same. And so unfor, I don’t wanna get into this, but unfortunately, the way the health system just does not pay doctors to promote more health.

Yeah. It is reactive. It is basically a patchwork, it’s Band-aid solution. And I offered that to my patients. Hey, I can give you the medication. The antidepressant that you’re feeling, but you’re gonna come back in three months is feeling the same thing. Yeah. Because you have not changed the fundamentals.

You’re not exercising, you’re not sleeping well. You’re not eating right. Yeah. Me, [00:28:00] no medication is going to help with that. There’s no magic bill. There is no magical There’s pill.

Eric: Yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. I know you’re a major advocate for changing the healthcare system and I think I think our producer Steve asked you at the as when you walked in earlier, have you changed healthcare yet?

You said, yes, I have, but no one’s listening. I think.

Kwandwo: Yeah. It’s funny because. You’re, this might seem like a bit of a digression, I’ve done the research side I’ve done, now I’m a hospital administrator and I actually think to move the needle is gonna come from circles like this.

An entrepreneurial side. Yeah. I honestly I feel like that’s the lever, and this is probably why I’m starting to dance with this a little bit more because. Everything is too slow. Government’s too slow. Hospital too slow. Health authority is too slow. And we need, people need this now. Like the system is like Amar’s touching on this.

But I’ll tell you, this is the worst I’ve seen. For me practicing as a clinician, this is the worst I’ve seen it. Lack of primary care, the merge wait times to [00:29:00] wait for elective surgery, like this is the worst it’s gotten and. I’m frustrated because some of the most simple solutions are not being impact or not being pushed forward right now.

Like it’s stuff that should have been done yesterday. I’m not, I’m hearing a lot of blah, blah, blah, but I’m not seeing any progress. Yeah. And so to me, I’m like, I won’t lie. Like I’m frustrated and I don’t want to digress too, but there are a lot of low level solutions, for example. I like the idea of a national licensure.

That’s a, like a simple measure That would be easy. So either of us right now, if they needed help in Manitoba to support them clinically, we couldn’t do it. It would take six to eight weeks to get our licenses or registered. That should be national shit. Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s such an easy step.

Yeah. Like all these little things that, once again, I don’t want to digress, but it’s circles like this to me that is gonna start to move the needle.

Anmar: I heard something profound yesterday. I was at a meeting at Chio, and so the way we focus on healthcare, [00:30:00] for instance, pediatric care is the least of a focus and priorities in terms of government, in terms of funding, and the mantra behind it is kids don’t vote.

1. So really, wow. But when we look at the profound impact of delayed wait times at cheo, for instance, in terms of access to care, access to mental healthcare, it is insane. But when you look at that effect on the trajectory, kids who are having difficulty with. Development and autism spectrum disorder, they’re waiting up to four years.

Yeah. To be seen, I imagine a 2-year-old or a three-year-old waiting for four years. That is impactful. That is a profound time of when they develop. And so you extrapolate that and then yeah, you have people who are coming into, so it’s not just the aging it’s really we gotta start from the roots and our system.

Eric: For back to men in their midlife for a second. For a lot of men burnout, high stress, lack of sleep, coupled with hustle culture is almost worn like a badge [00:31:00] of honor, right? And seeking help or asking for help is seen as a weakness. How do we change that narrative? Good question.

Anmar: That’s difficult. I struggle with that every day, and I’m sure Quadro is the same, and we’re trying to be all and do all, and with the families and communities as well. But I find really it’s about slowing down. Slowing down in terms of the way you think. Slowing down. I find even in walking and just being more present because really yeah, you’re probably going from one shift to another and doing this, and then you’ve got a recording here and.

We all do that. And it’s it’s become a norm where it’s an emotional state where you ask someone, Hey Eric, how are you doing? I’m busy. Busy. Yeah. Like I, how, when did busy become an emotional state?

Eric: We’re actually doing a show on that in the coming weeks called how to Escape the Busy Trap.

Yes. And it really comes down to, I think we see being busy. As being important.

All: Important. Yeah.

Eric: It’s tied to worth and the busier we are, the more important we feel. But being busy doesn’t mean you’re important. It just means you’re [00:32:00] accessible. Yeah. And those two things couldn’t be more different.

Absolutely. Yeah.

Kwandwo: Absolutely. Yeah. I take a lot of pride in. We do, both of us. We handle a lot. We do a lot. A lot on our plate.

Eric: You guys are very active. Yeah. Yeah.

Kwandwo: But you’ll, if you ever hear me say I’m busy or brag about it, then punch me in the right test

All: in the right one. The right one. The right in the right test table, not the left

Eric: one.

Folks, you heard it here first. It’s the right one.

Kwandwo: So busy. No, I,

oh, are you testing us? Yeah, exactly. Kidding. Oh my God. And over to you. They’re recording. But no, but all seriously, it’s all seriousness. I think I. One of the key things to, to focus on is prioritize. And I think this is what a lot of people don’t do. I, I get in a lot of arguments with my wife actually about this.

’cause she, that’s her default. I’m busy, I’m handling this or that or whatever. And. I always, there’s a [00:33:00] good book I mentioned this re recently one. The one thing or the, something along those lines. And it’s basically if you look at your massive to-do list, what is the one thing that’s gonna move the needle?

Yeah. Stop telling me about the, it didn’t finish this form or this email bullshit. It’s what this meeting, this podcast today. That’s the one thing. Yeah. You know what I’m saying? Yeah. Like that to me is one of the most important things to allow yourself to slow down to to have that focus and have that intention.

And I don’t get me wrong, I’m not the best at this. Like I, I still run around, but. I think this is a key step for this. And then any change at a high level that you’re mentioning? I think the best example is just be the change. Yeah. Like us just showing, Hey, we’re willing to slow down. Hey, we’re go willing to say that we’re getting close to burnout.

Here are my signs that I’m getting close to burnout because I am not enjoying the stuff I typically would be. I’m a little shorter with [00:34:00] the family. All these things, I think being open and, but at the same time, being that example for. For the men around us is the path forward?

Eric: It’s I love that because having experienced burnout I’m a high energy guy.

Like I, I can, I. I, I am like the energizer bunny, right? Except without all the manic movement. No, you do. Okay. Let’s be fair. Let’s be honest. Okay. But what I’ve become very clear on is that those seasons of my life, I didn’t burn out because I was working too hard. It’s because I was misaligned.

I was out of alignment with who I am, what I stand for. And I think a lot of folks, when we talk about burnout, it’s really not. ’cause those of us that have discovered passion and purpose in our work and in our lives typically are perhaps busier than the average individual. But that work energizes that work actually brings life. It’s life giving as opposed to draining. It’s the misalignment. And I think, again, when we come back to men at [00:35:00] midlife, men that have, we’ve been programmed since. We’re little boys that what we accomplish determines our value. Of course. And so success to us is the only way we feel good about ourselves.

And when we experience failure we feel like we’ve blown it. And then so you get to midlife and with the rate of divorce and I’m divorced. I’ve been divorced before or after 20 years, right? You start to feel I’m failing. I’m failing at life. I’m failing at marriage.

You start having kids and realize that. What’s the saying? We think that our job as parents is to help our kids grow up, but the universe gave them to us to help us grow up. Exactly. That’s so and as much as even you’re committed to being a good dad, like we fuck up let’s face it, mistakes are made.

And then you feel like I never got training on how to be a good dad, right? So you. Start to feel the shame and the failure around that. Unless we can be talking about this stuff like that, what we have found to be so at life transforming is as soon as one guy opens up and says, here’s what’s going on for me, you don’t get oh, you’re weak and you’re, no, you get you two.[00:36:00]

Anmar: Yeah.

Eric: You too. You too. So changing the narrative to me is we gotta start talking. We got the silence. When I said at the beginning of the show, the silence is deadly. Silence is killing us. At a rate that’s it’s scary. Frightening to me. And I know for this next chapter of my life, I’m committing to saving a few.

And doing what I can to change on air.

Anmar: Yeah. We stay in our head too much and I think, that’s. That’s the killer for men. It’s, you keep on rehashing and of course you go into a dark place where, as you said, all of those mistakes that I did, that divorce, that I had, that mess up that I had with my kids.

And it’s just a cycle after cycle and that just, it makes you live half life. You’re not showing up fully. You’re not showing up fully your job and your profession and your community as well. And what happens is, yeah, you go into that dark place, into that

Rob: Yeah.

Anmar: Cycle. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob: You mentioned earlier about how there is this movement when we talked about men community and building relationships.

The, I I recently just wa rewatched the TV series of Band of Brothers. So Good show. Yeah. [00:37:00] Yeah. It’s right. So good. But this notion of guys and I can think of. I, I’ve got a good friend of mine he just retired almost a year ago now nine months ago. And one of the first things he did is he started to have a cigar night.

Hey guys, let’s, once a week, we’re all gonna, just, whoever’s available, you’re doctors, you probably shouldn’t mention cigar sayings. Cigars are healthy. With scotch, it’s, yeah. Hey, with scotch. With scotch, absolutely. Yeah. No, but, and so he does this, got a band of brothers right here, right? He does this weekly cigar night and there, and I know another guy, he’s bunch of the neighbors, the guys, they get together once a week just to sit in the, somebody’s garage and stuff like that.

What are the for guys that are considering doing that, or maybe being the one to say, I’m gonna take the initiative and start to invite people together. What are some of the mental. And even physical benefits to guys gathering, sharing, being open. Why is this a movement of guys building community so important to our health?

Kwandwo: Yeah. Personally, I just feel, I think Eric said it before, this is what we’re [00:38:00] meant to do is connect. If you look at. Those Netflix shows. The Blue Zones? Yes. Yes. We were just in one. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah. Which one? In Costa Rica. Oh, cool. Yeah, I. This is not an expert opinion. It’s a, my humble opinion, all the most of that benefit to me is connection.

Yes. Is like the, and having a purpose. The elderly folks feel like they have a role still in the family. They’re still talking and connecting with people their age and of all generations. So I think number one, like this is just the way we are wired. Number two, having something that you have to look forward to.

Is powerful on your mental health. We know that from, I don’t know what the literature is, whether it’s psychology or whatnot, but if even if you put something in your calendar that’s months away that could have some significant impact on your mood and just, I think. Over the last few years, we forgot how to just [00:39:00] find play joy.

And guys, were good at that. Yeah. You know what I mean? You heard us before this, we started recording, I started talking about like my interests outside of

All: can we, I

Kwandwo: was gonna preamble. I don’t make Steve have to.

All: Time out here. I’m a young guy. Yeah. Deuce. Yeah.

Rob: Yeah. You can add comments. You gonna, yeah. Yeah. I, the comments below what you believe that

Kwandwo: I’m referring to. Just bleep him out. Exactly. He’ll be just got, yeah it’s pork chop sandwiches. That’s my, anyways. The but yeah the the laughing playing.

Yeah. Being silly again and there was a bit of a, also culturally just being light with some topics became like totally, very woke culture. That was also, I think a little bit of a barrier, like we were talking about Bill Burr. Was that was on the, yeah, and like I’m a big comedy fiend.

Me too. I love same standup. I love Same. And I’m not like, I’m agnostic when it comes to [00:40:00] the niche. If it’s dry, more offensive, the better. Exactly. And to be a comedian now, say even two years ago, you can’t swing the bat. Yeah. Unless you’re Chappelle B Bill doesn’t, I’m, I, bill appears to not care, but I think he done.

Yeah. But everyone, yeah. Yeah. And I think now we’re the pendulum is swinging a little bit that we can get silly. We don’t have to take ourselves so seriously. Yeah. And so I think all these things that are, we’re moving for is gonna lead to a healthier and more fulfilled life. Yeah, I love that.

Anmar: I grew up in the Middle East and I think in the Middle East, the culture of the cafe, like the men’s cafe where you go in and as you get older you start to be introduced to that culture of yeah, just men hang out in the cafe. Some are playing backgammon, some are domino. There’s poets in the corner, resetting poets and sharing ideas and stuff and I found that culture was really nice.

Because you are really engaging with men. You are learning from different kind of men. You are learning from people in the community who are pillars in the community, the teachers and the professors every walks [00:41:00] of life. But you are not really engaging in, in behavior that is, you’re drinking too much or you’re partying too much, and things that you’re gonna wake up the next morning you regret. And so those are the mentors that we had growing up that are free mentors. You could ask anyone, and they’ll tell you about their wisdom, their experience, and what they’ve done. And those are the, that’s the kind of environment that we need.

And so now as things change, yeah, you need kind of someone who is a friend who goes to the gym that you can attach yourself with. Yeah. A friend who has a nice truck that you can go for a j just have having fun on. On the weekend. And so these are the kind of people. But I think going back to your point, it’s, it has to be No, no purpose.

It’s just for the joy of hanging out. Yeah. ’cause we’re always doing things with a purpose. You’re doing that. I’m doing that. It’s always, yes. You’ve got a networking event, you’ve got this event to attend to, but it’s, at the end of the day, there’s an agenda. And I think we, I miss that way.

We’re just hanging out. Yeah. Yeah. About I saw this

Rob: article this morning about some of the [00:42:00] grocery stores in Norway have introduced what they call the slow lane. And the purpose of the slow lane is primarily it’s seniors that will use it, but it’s, they can spend more time talking.

The cashier, they engage and have conversations without driving us crazy, without driving.

You’re not here to, but what an act. But what a fascinating concept for, and again, you often see that in Norway or some countries like that, that are, seem to be so much more advanced on mental health. Yeah. Recognizing the need for community and to provide it in an environment like that is radical.

Yeah.

Eric: Gentlemen, I feel we could talk all day. So I want to, I, ’cause I, I really could and I hope you both will come back. Please. I would love to do this again. And I think we’re talking about subject matter that listeners are gonna really resonate with. And but two questions.

The first one is fast forward to the end of a man’s life. You guys have been there, you’ve seen it, you’ve witnessed it. In my former life as a minister [00:43:00] and church pastor, both of us sat at the bedside of people passing. What are the biggest regrets I. That you’ve heard uttered by people and their men specifically in their final moments.

Anmar: Not having family around you or people who, a community that, that is around you, that cares for you. And I’m reading this book now, the Five Types of Worlds. And I think in that book really speaks about, people at the end of life, it’s, no one’s gonna mention money, no one’s gonna mention the boat.

No one’s gonna mention, they’re gonna mention about the experiences, the purpose they had, but also the people and the memories that you have created with with the family around you. Yeah. Love that.

Kwandwo: There’s almost nothing to add, to be honest with you. Like I, I’ve not once heard. A loved one say, man, I should have hit that email to Curtis.

No, it’s the, it’s almost hard to watch sometimes. Get a little bit emotional thinking about it, like times where you’ve seen [00:44:00] family the need to see a family member. And sometimes they come in, sometimes they don’t come and. Yeah it can be pretty, pretty powerful moments on both ends of that.

And that to me has been a key theme. It’s the connection with the family that why didn’t I talk to my sister all this time? And that, and then. And, this is, this is it. This is it for them. And yeah. And so I think it’s, the purpose is the connection piece. It’s the lives you touch and Yeah.

The material shit legit does not matter. Yeah. Love that. Legit.

Rob: We’re gonna, we’re, as we start to, to wrap up here, I’m gonna one more. Kind this question, and I’m gonna encourage you, for each of you as you answer it, is to look into your camera and to speak to men. There you go.

Speak to men who are in their forties and fifties, and what is it that you, what’s one thing you would like? To leave with them. And as you’re thinking about that, I think, to your point, we have often, as you said, sacked by those [00:45:00] deathbeds and to see the regret and the all of what people go on.

And it’s why our purpose and our. Our passion is, that’s why we do this, to help people and encourage people to live their life fully today. Yep. Rather than wait till that moment and wish that you had. I think this has been such, such a, I knew it was going to be, yeah. I was excited for it leading seat and this is beyond what I could have hoped for.

And I agree with Eric that we’d love to have you back. Giving you a bit of time to think about what you would say but maybe speak to the men that are either watching this and of course listening to it. What would you say to them?

Anmar: I’ve already thought about it so I can Go ahead. Yeah, you go.

You fly. There you go. Fly. Awesome. I’m a follower of the stoics and I read meditations by Marcus Aelius every day and when I wake up and if Marcus Aelius had the same struggles that we are having right now, and he was. One of the biggest influencers and really emperor we are sharing the same struggles.

And I think really at the end of it, it’s life is about struggle. I don’t think nobody [00:46:00] said life is going to be easy, but I think if you surround yourself with people who could help you grow that’s where life is.

Rob: That’s so good.

Kwandwo: I’m not gonna be able to beat that, but I keep going back to this.

Boys gents, find your purpose and everything falls into place. Yeah I really believe that. I think. Really taking that time to think about what your values are, think about the times where you felt alive and connected with others, and how can you bring that to the table on a regular basis And you’ll see, you’ll start eating better.

You’ll start wanting to move better. You’re gonna want to connect with others, you mood, it’s gonna be better. You’re gonna be sleeping better when you think about what is going to drive you and. And dream big. This is a thi This might come a little bit o out of the blue here, but I think in our country right now I focus a lot on the state of healthcare.

Like we need innovation. We need people that are thinking outside the box. And I know a lot of us are feeling that we [00:47:00] gotta stay in our own little shell and. I’m trying to encourage y’all to have that green light to swing the bat. Now, whether you’re an entrepreneur, whether you’re in the health space, love it.

Whether you’re a teacher fuck it. Swing that bat. Swing the fucking bat. Bat. Yeah, let’s go. I love it.

Anmar: Elbows up. Ah, alright. I’m gonna share some chocolate with you there. We elbows up. Elbows up. It’s Canadian. It is pr, it is made here in Canada and the Maritimes. It is actually a beautiful story if you know the story of.

Piece by chocolate. It’s by an immigrant who came to Canada, refugee from Syria. Wow. And he uprooted and he started this is not a promotion for him in any way. No.

Eric: We’ll put the links if you can provide them. We’ll put the links in the show notes. Yeah.

Anmar: But this is some something that I picked up yesterday and I thought really speaks to elbows up in life.

Speaks up to swing who we are. Absolutely. Let’s swing the bot. Just swing the bot.

Eric: Gentlemen, this has been so rich. Thank you again for being here. And thank you for tuning in today for this great conversation. We look forward to having even more. We’ll [00:48:00] be putting all the information where you can connect with Anmar and with Quadro online.

These guys are doing some great stuff. You will not be sorry if you follow them online. You’ll be encouraged. These guys are just doing some great stuff and we’re honored to have them here today. Okay. I’m gonna hijack our regularly scheduled programming and provide you an alternate. Ending to this episode because we’ve got something really exciting that we want you to hear about, especially if you’re a male leader over 40, a male business owner.

This is for you. If you were inspired by the conversation that we just had with Quadro and Anmar about the challenges that men in leadership face then we want you to check out the foundry. The link is on your screen right now. It’s gonna be in the show notes as well. You can sign up for more information about a community of brotherhood that’s forming.

For men by men to help you not just win in business, but also win at life. So we hope that you’ll check that out. We encourage you to do and again, thanks for tuning in this week. And until we see you next time, get out there and live your [00:49:00] best life.

 

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