Unlocking Creative Potential with Robert Smith

Unlocking Creative Potential with Robert Smith

Robert Smith:
I created a a Frankenstein parent. I had taken all of those pieces from different parents and stuck them together into one parent, and that’s what I was judging myself against. Instead of taking this amalgamation and making a monster out of it, I should sit back and say, what’s important to me as a parent? What kind of life do I wanna show my kids? Something that is really important to me with with the boys is that they feel comfortable in their own skins, that they are comfortable about who they are as a person.

Rob Dale:
Hi there, and welcome to the Living Richly podcast. We’re so grateful that you’ve joined us again today. We are so excited about our special guest, that we are gonna have on the show today, Rob Smith. Rob is the author of multiple books. He’s a keynote speaker. He is a teacher. He is the owner of a branding company. In fact, this is the guy who designed the branding that we use for all of the Living Richly stuff.

Rob Dale:
This is the guy who created it. Rob, so great to have you here on the show with us.

Robert Smith:
Thank you so much. This is sir certainly a a a pleasure, and I’m really looking forward to our conversation.

Wendy Dodds:
Oh, we’re thrilled, thrilled, thrilled to have you. And, you know, if we think about your story, you have such a powerful story, Rob, of both triumph and tragedy. You’ve reached incredible success, with all of the accolades and awards, and yet you’ve also struggled with self worth and imposter syndrome, which, we did a show not to do on imposter syndrome. So we’re gonna get into all of that, but, let’s just start at the beginning. If we start to think about your early artistic beginnings, can you describe or think about your childhood fascination with artistic expression, and what kind of mediums did you enjoy the most?

Robert Smith:
Well, as a child, I just I loved any medium, really. And I loved painting. I loved drawing. I loved acting and, just a very anything that involved creativity, was my, was my passion for sure.

Rob Dale:
What was it like, though? So how was that being expressed? What were some of the things that you were doing? When you look we talk so often that so much of what we are today is shaped in what we did and how what we believed and all of those things when we were children. What were some of the things you believed and were doing in those moments?

Robert Smith:
So a lot of times, again, as as children, I I felt I was very fortunate to feel very free to express myself. So, sometimes that was through, painting. I painted, you know, landscapes and, figure drawings, things like that. Watercolor, oil. It really didn’t matter to me. Whatever was handy and close by, I would I would use. And, really at that age, there was no, set, approach or subject matter. It was just getting something out of my head and onto a surface of some kind.

Wendy Dodds:
I love that. I love how you talk about having the freedom to express. So if you talk about the freedom that you experienced, in that childhood phase, what impacted your family’s support or the people around you have on nurturing that creativity?

Robert Smith:
So that’s where, again, I was very fortunate. I kind of won the lottery, in the family that I was born into in that they supported my artistic endeavors no matter what. My mother is a classical pianist. My father, is or was in, sales. And, so, I was nurtured at a young age, always given whatever I needed, whatever I wanted, and the freedom to do, to express myself. So it was it was, it was a great childhood from that perspective.

Rob Dale:
I love that. I’m, like, picturing you now, like, kinda hippie world, and you’re just on a mountainside, just kind of all this free flowing and everything like that in your life?

Robert Smith:
We were hippies, really.

Rob Dale:
None. You’ve all got longer hair then?

Robert Smith:
Oh, I had hair. Let’s just start there.

Rob Dale:
One of the one of the interesting things about, for you was going from that that free flowing kind of openness and everything like that, and then you talk about the notion of going into high school and the rigidity of the school system. It’s interesting. I know that I I I don’t know if Eric and I have ever talked about it on a show. We certainly hold to some of the same beliefs around some of the challenges of our current the way that our school systems are designed are certainly they’re not designed to support creatives like yourself. And what was that like as you started to move into high school and with all this desire for creativity to suddenly be experiencing the rigidity of the school system?

Robert Smith:
Yeah. So, high school was incredibly difficult, for me, and it really is, to this day, a source of my imposter syndrome. And it’s still part of, it really battered down my, self esteem, because, there is no room for self expression. There is no room for creativity because you are marked for specifics. The answer is right or it’s wrong. And, it’s it’s something that I really struggled with because I’m very much about interpretation. And it’s something that is part of my, career and my creative adulthood is that idea of interpretation, of understanding, and coming out with solutions that are are unique. And high school is absolutely not about being unique, in the school, but also with peer pressure and with the students.

Rob Dale:
It it’s interesting because and I and, you know, you’re right. Our school systems are designed in such a way to, you regurgitate information. Right? Your your your your your your quizzes, your tests are most often about just give us the answer that we’ve already told you you’re supposed to how you’re supposed to answer something. And now here you are just, you know, kind of in that creativity trying to figure that kind of stuff out. What was the bigger challenge for you? Was it the, was it the kind of fitting into that model? Or as you mentioned about not only struggling there, but also with the friends, with the community, with the people around you? What was the what was the challenge there between the 2?

Robert Smith:
Yeah. So I again, we’re all, products of our environment, and we look at the iSchool, environment. It is done and divided up into cliques. It’s divided into, you know, that that thinking that the school is teaching you trickles down. And so it becomes very defined, and then you get segregated into groups. So you’re you’re a jock or you’re a geek or you’re you know? And and for me, it was never about that. I had friends that were jocks. I had friends that were, geeks.

Robert Smith:
And and, I never understood that. And therefore, I never really fit into one group, for that reason.

Wendy Dodds:
In terms of as you continued through high school, and then, you know, were continuing to discover your passion, what would you say, Rob, led you to pursue design? And you just knew, like, this is what I wanna this is what I wanna do. And how did it transform your outlook, on your education and your career as you move through those stages of life?

Robert Smith:
That’s that’s a that’s a great question because for me, that was, what changed my life. I had a, again, doing my art. I was finishing off high school, and I had a guidance counselor that was recognizing the work that I was doing. And then called me to his office one day and said, you should be a graphic designer. And I said, awesome. What’s that? Yeah. So, I remember vividly. He pulled out a book, design annual, and started flipping through the pages.

Robert Smith:
And it was that, you know, that epiphany moment, that light bulb. I looked at this and I remembered specifically, I looked back at him and I said, this is a job? And he said, yes. I said, I could get paid to do this. And he said, yes. And it was it was just it was incredible to me. And, he helped me fill out, choose a college to go to, fill out my registration and and and application. And, I’m so that was the pivotal thing there. But then added on to that was the fact that I had to move out of home to another city.

Robert Smith:
And so what I was able to do was pursue something that I was passionate about. I was also in an environment where nobody knew me. I didn’t have any baggage. I could completely reinvent myself. And going from, I think I graduated with a 64 average or something that from high school, to an A plus on the president’s list, vice president of the student body. It was an incredible metamorphosis. It was a renaissance for me. So that when that door opened, I just went through it and embraced everything that was around there and still to this day.

Wendy Dodds:
I love that.

Rob Dale:
There are so many nuggets that I wanna unpack and what you just said there, but maybe just I’m gonna zero in on, again, that that guidance teacher, that that that support that you had there, talk about how powerful we we often talk about the influencers in our lives, the people who who speak life into us, who encourage us and challenge us, and I see that in you as somebody who is, and will certainly get into, you know, what you’re doing today, but you are a big believer in mentoring others. For you know, most people would know this, but you you and I have known each other for a lot of years. You were one of the very first coaching clients that I had way back in the day, and we have worked together on and off over the years. And I have always seen you as somebody who has absolutely been a believer in not only taking in being mentored by someone, but also mentoring other people. Maybe talk a little bit about that, what you learned there, and it sounds like maybe that was a starting point for you, this person who influenced you, and how you’ve taken and embraced that and continually do that for others today.

Robert Smith:
Yeah. That’s excellent. Absolutely, Rob. And it’s something that has followed through my career. Obviously, we need to build our career and reputation in this industry, build a portfolio, clients, and things like that. But as I went through, I started teaching at college at a very young age. I was in my early thirties and, late twenties, early thirties. And, I wanna see other people have that moment that I had.

Robert Smith:
I want to have because the school system hasn’t changed. It has not changed. And so to this day, I do speeches and presentations at high schools, and I’m looking for those eyes because there’s always at least 3 or 4 from the audience. Suddenly, their eyes pop out because I’m showing them work and how much, enjoyment and how much of a privilege what I do for a living is. And I see those eyes and that’s, you know, I don’t get paid to do those. And that’s the payment for me. It’s like, okay, good. I wanna catch those people who feel undervalued, who feel that they don’t have something to present to society because they’re not, you know, into the math or into the sciences and that.

Robert Smith:
And they feel very, you know, there’s a lot of depression, and it erodes your self confidence. And I don’t wanna see that. So I wanna find these people and give them, you know, that, like fire up that passion, in them. That’s, you know, and right now, not only with high schools, but I also, do this mentoring thing online. So I’ve had the wonderful opportunity to work with people in Nigeria and in China, and all these countries, just little half hour sessions, and that’s what they come around to. Doesn’t matter your gender, your geographical, location, your income level, none of those things. All of these people struggled the same thing, and that is the self identity and struggling with what do I give back, to the world. And, and and I wanted to really spark that passion that I have, in others.

Wendy Dodds:
I love that. I think, you know, just hearing you speak, Rob

Rob Dale:
You can hear it in his voice.

Wendy Dodds:
I just you know, the world needs more people like that, and I, you know, influencers, sparklighters, whatever whatever you wanna call them. But I think especially coming out of COVID, and even though we’re 4 years past COVID, you know, if I just think about high schools or just people in general who’ve kinda lost their way and their spark and and their light is so dim that, you know, they’re they’re waiting for someone or something to light that spark back up in them. And I just I I just love that you’re able to give back and and, influence people that way. Oh, good to share with. I love it. I love it. Talking about that, though, and and and and I know you mentioned it a couple minutes ago around that imposter syndrome, piece, which, you know, I think that’s something that we all struggle with and we all, you know, try to navigate through. But how has self doubt, imposter syndrome, whatever you wanna call it, shaped your career, and what role did that have for you, or or how did that play out in your achievements, and relationships?

Robert Smith:
Imposter syndrome and self doubt, I think a lot of us struggle with that. And it’s a matter of coming up with, our own individual tools and approaches through, experiencing it with others. And I did a lot of research, different writers, different presenters, different people online on how they approach it. And that’s one thing I discovered was, and I think it does apply to most people, is for me, the core of imposter syndrome is the fact that we’re not psychic. And imposter syndrome is all about assumption. It’s all about they’re not gonna like me. They’re not gonna like this. They’re not gonna accept this.

Robert Smith:
I don’t want them. They’re going to. It’s all projection and assumptions on behaviors of others who we have no control over. The only person we have control over is ourselves. And so, if we think of the fact that this is something I remind myself when I have a presentation to go to a meeting, I’m like, I don’t know if they’re gonna like this. I stop and say, you’re not you’re not psychic. And let me know. Okay.

Robert Smith:
You’re you know what? You’re right. You can only show up as your genuine self. And and that’s something that’s been really, really important to me. A big struggle, certainly. But, again, understanding that how has it affected my career? Well, it it has a small sided benefit to it, which is, you’re always, pushing forward. Right? You’re always pushing yourself because, okay, that was great. What have you done lately? Right. And you’re push, push, push to improve, to get better.

Robert Smith:
And, that’s that’s where this has has has, I guess, helped me in a sense, the imposter syndrome. It’s like, okay. Well, it it’s it’s somewhat humbling. Right? If you ever I what I feel is if you ever reach a point in your career where you think I’m the best at what I do, you should quit that and start something else because you’re no longer relevant. You can no longer learn.

Rob Dale:
Oh, that’s powerful. And I I think if I love that notion of psychic, I’m gonna steal that and start to use it and say, as I always used to say. But it because it it it fits right into certainly one of the things that I do often, talk about certainly with clients, in personal lives, in our in our personal life is around the the it’s the Stephen Covey’s, you know, seven habits. It’s around what’s within my control, what’s in my my sphere of influence, what’s outside of my control, and that’s to your point. What’s outside of my control is how someone’s gonna respond to what I’m going to do, I’m gonna do a presentation. What’s within my control, what’s within my influence is do the best damn job that I’m capable of doing, and then see how people respond to it is outside of that control. And so the more you focus in on what you have control over, the more that oftentimes removes the, burden of the imposter syndrome, and being able allows you kinda some freedom on that. Wouldn’t you agree with that?

Robert Smith:
Absolutely. And I think the biggest lesson that I learned was from my brother-in-law, who is a former Olympian. And, he went to the 2 Olympics. And when I was doing research and building my second book, I was looking at, again, how people deal with imposter syndrome and things like that. So I thought, well, he’s been at the highest of the high. He’s been to the Olympics. How do you deal with that? So when I asked him, I said, how do you deal when you’re up against the best in the world and you’ve got your race ahead of you? How do you deal with that? And he simply said, well, I don’t think about them. And I said, what do you mean? He said, no.

Robert Smith:
He said, I’m I’d have no control over their pace. If they’re well, if they’re unwell, if they’re well trained, if they’re not well trained, that I go in whether it’s the Olympics, a local race, a national race, I go in with the same mindset as that I wanna do a better time than I did last time because that’s the only thing I’m in control of, better my best. And so that was powerful for me. And it was not the, answer I was expecting at all. But it was it was the best answer. And that’s another thing that I always keep in mind is, okay, when I start going online and looking at other people’s portfolios going, oh my god. You know? It’s like, okay. And where are you personally? Where are you at?

Rob Dale:
That fits into, I think, what you often do, when you’re training in a group training. I hear you say it all the time is don’t worry about what the person besides is running. Don’t worry about, you know, you’re competing against yourself. You’re challenging yourself.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Yeah. One of my favorite quotes is it’s you against you, not you against everyone else. But as humans, we naturally have a tendency to, drift out of our lane instead of staying in our own lane, kind of focusing on what everyone else is doing, which then starts to chip away at our self worth, our self confidence, you know, all of that kind of stuff. And then, you know, and then and then then your energy starts to dip to a point where you feel like, well, why bother anyways because I’m never going to be, x, y, and zed.

Rob Dale:
You’ve written a couple of books. Right? So here you are. You are like this rock star. You’ve won all these awards. You’re doing all this great branding. You’re, you know, you you’re you’re teaching students. You’re and then you write a couple of books, and you’re you you can’t even you’re so creative and artistic. You can’t even write a book with a normal title.

Robert Smith:
Very true. Very true.

Rob Dale:
Let’s talk about let’s talk about the books for a minute because I think the the mess, it fits in here, especially, Frankenstein condition and and imposter syndrome and and, just the kind of the idea behind it, what’s the message of of, of the Frankenstein condition, and and and how is that relevant to people who are struggling with identity, struggling with understanding kind of how they show up, all of the things we’ve been talking about so far, Farf?

Robert Smith:
Yeah. So, basically, the Frankenstein condition actually started out as the Frankenstein parent. And it was my exercise of trying to, unpack my feelings as a horrible parent. I felt I was, like, just doing the worst things to my my kids. And I needed to intellectualize that. Why was I feeling this way? And it’s not like breaking an arm where you put a cast on it. Right? It’s it’s there’s no concrete remedy. And and so to, and again, because of what I do is, you know, problem solving, for limits, like, okay, how do I contextualize what I’m going through so that I can better understand it? And what I realized was, at the time, I was a scout leader and a soccer coach.

Robert Smith:
So I was meeting a whole bunch of other parents. And still one parent, their kids were really good at school. And another one, they were, always great at sports. And then another one, there was a camping with their kids. And then the other ones, their kids were popular at school. And so what I realized, what I had done was I created a Frankenstein parent. I had taken all of those pieces from different parents and stuck them together into one parent, and that’s what I was judging myself against. When I realized that the intellectual family, their kids did not do sports at all.

Robert Smith:
They couldn’t hit a ball for, you know, any money. The sports kids, their kids didn’t do great at school. They didn’t get high marks. The, you know, the camping family, well, they didn’t have a lot of friends because they were always out camping in that. So it suddenly gave me the permission to say, you know what? Instead of taking this amalgamation and making a monster out of it, I should sit back and say, what’s important to me as a parent? What kind of life, do I wanna show my kids what is available to them in life? And for me, it was, you know, Canadian dad. I did give them the opportunity to, play hockey. They weren’t interested. So I thought, oh, okay.

Robert Smith:
So we’ve got them heavily into scouts. What I loved about that is so many different activities. They got all of these different things that they could do. And to me, that showed that life is about opportunity and finding who you are, not being told what you are by the school system or whatever. It was like, oh, you know, and I’ve got 2 boys, and they’re just wonderful human beings. And, you know, one’s the, an electrical engineer, and the other one’s, police foundation. So I want to get into the RCMP in that. So very different from from what I do.

Robert Smith:
And I celebrate that because what I feel is where their paths have led them are genuine to them. Because we don’t have electrical engineers in the family. We don’t have RCP or police in the family. We don’t. So, obvi to me, this demonstrates that they found what is theirs.

Wendy Dodds:
I love that. I love that just being able to hear you embrace, you know, as you raised your kids, what they liked and helping them by shaping experiences in them, which I think is just so

Rob Dale:
key. Yeah. For sure. For sure. So, yeah, go jump in.

Robert Smith:
It’s dope. So so The Frankenstein Parent, when I was started writing it, that was for myself, but then I wrote it. And then I realized, you know what? We do this as, sons and daughters. We do this as spouses. We do this in our careers. So I took out parent, and I just made it the Frankenstein condition because we do this in all aspects of our lives.

Rob Dale:
We do. And and thank you because that’s where I was about to go is I was gonna tie it into where the book eventually landed, which was the recognition of of this is so natural. It’s such ingrained in us when we compare ourselves. We’re we’re we’re rarely do we compare ourselves to an to the to the equal. We compare ourselves to your point to to all of the different scenarios, and we say, oh, well, if you put all that together, then I don’t measure up. Well, no kidding. No one measures up when you try to do it from that standpoint. And so it’s finding the comparing yours.

Rob Dale:
Comparing equally is is often what’s difficult. What are some of the things that you would, suggest as kind of those first steps for somebody who’s there, and they’re like, holy shit, Rob. This is me. I am absolutely that Frankenstein where I put together all of these other images, and I’m comparing myself to that. How do they get away from that and back to the the self acceptance and the love, the radical love that they have internally, what would some be some of the, steps that you would suggest as starting points?

Robert Smith:
Well, I think for me, what’s really important is you’ve gotta get this stuff out of your head and down on paper, for two reasons. One is it takes it out of your head. Secondly, it makes it real. It’s staring back at you. So what I suggest people do is you get a piece of paper, lined paper, and you draw a line down the middle of it. And one column is lies and one column is truths. And so if you find yourself one day coming home and saying, oh, wow. I really screwed up that meeting.

Robert Smith:
Write that down on the lies part. What’s the truth out of that? Well, the truth might be, yeah, the, the PowerPoint broke down. I didn’t have a proper PDF to put it through. So we’ve personified it. Right? So as I screwed up that meeting, that’s the lie. The truth is technology kind of screwed it up. You didn’t. So, and that’s just a not a great example, but it’s that kind of thing.

Robert Smith:
So what is the, what is the lie that you’re telling yourself? And what’s the actual truth? And when we start breaking it down like that, it really becomes powerful because it again, like I said, it’s staring at you.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. I think I think it’s a great example, actually, because I think, so I’m a big believer in writing things down. And as humans, we’re very visual, and visual is memorable. So by right by doing a simple extra and I also think we overcomplicate the shit out of trying to decipher what’s going on in our head. So I love that. I’m actually gonna pass that on to one of my daughters. I love that exercise because I think it’s simple, and it just allows you to be able to visualize what the actual truth is instead of the stories that you’re telling yourself.

Rob Dale:
Your second book, Stop Looking at Zebras. Like, I

Wendy Dodds:
I like zebras.

Rob Dale:
I ever but I don’t know if I ever started looking at zebras.

Wendy Dodds:
What if I like zebras though?

Rob Dale:
Yeah. What if you like zebras? Why are you being such a jerk? Why are you so mad? Why why do you hate zebras, Rob?

Robert Smith:
As a young child, I was traumatized. You know those those catar cells that go above you Yeah. You know, when you’re near the crib? Well, one of the zebras fell off. It got untied, and it fell on my face. No. So the first book was for everybody. You know, the Frankenstein edition. This book, it was funny because when my dad found out I was writing a book, he’s like, oh, what is it about design that you’re gonna write about? And I said, it has nothing to do with design.

Robert Smith:
And he’s like, what? So the second book and at the time, I thought, I’m not gonna write about design. I got 30 years behind me, sure, but I don’t wanna see another portfolio book out there. Here’s pretty pictures of beautiful things that I’ve made. And it’s like, no, that’s not what this is about. Right? So after getting Frankenstein condition done, I then dove deeply into, a career in the creative industry, you know, how it beats you up and how there’s expectations. And and, it’s not mathematical. So coming up with solutions in that is is organic, and less structured. So, again, going back to me wanting people to have a full and beautiful life and career in in creativity, that’s what this book is.

Robert Smith:
It’s kind of a a love letter, to to what I do. And so the zebras actually, it’s a quote for, interns, medical interns in their 1st year. They learned the quote, if you hear hoof beats, don’t think zebra, think horse. And it’s basically the core of it is don’t over complicate. Wendy, you brought this up. Right? Don’t over complicate. And as creatives, we tend to do that. We want the 100% original idea, and we chase that.

Robert Smith:
And the reality is that doesn’t exist anymore. Also, we’re in we’re in creative communications. Right? So even if we did come up with that 100% original idea, it would fall flat because the general public don’t like new. They don’t know what to do with new. You need to take the new and wrap it in the familiar. They need context. So showing them a zebra is like, you know, if they were expecting, we’re going to a horse race and there’s yeah. And they’re waiting for the zebras to show up.

Robert Smith:
Well, you know, don’t overcomplicate. And so that’s one chapter. These the book is it is, observations and rants about this industry. And that’s one of the key things is, you know, giving yourself permission to be inspired by other artists, by other designers, by the world around you, and that and I you know, the example is Apple. You know, nothing they created was new. It was all preexisting technology, always everything. They just did it better. So give yourself permission to move forward.

Rob Dale:
I love that. It’s it’s interesting. One of the things that I do as a, you know, as a business coach, I if you were to look at my subscribers or or the my the people I’m following, whether it’s on, Instagram or even YouTube channels, I am often following other people who do what I do because I want to be inspired by by what I’m learning and what I’m discovering from them. I’m I’m not trying to come in and reinventing things completely. I’m trying to build upon other ideas. Right? What’s the classic marketing thing? Marketing you know, marketing is stealing somebody else’s idea and just making it better. Right? It’s it’s in so many ways. I love that.

Rob Dale:
And and and even in life, sometimes we feel so guilty, when we’re trying to do some and or where sometimes imposter syndrome comes into play is we think, oh, I’m just trying to be like someone else versus, no. I’m learning from them, and I’m trying to now incorporate what’s what am I what can I take from what someone else is doing, apply it to my life, apply it to what I do, and just do it in more authenticity, more more authentically, and more and more real? Right? It would not be how you see it?

Robert Smith:
Absolutely. And even quite literally my book title, that’s taken from somebody else. That’s a quote from the intern in that night. They said, stop looking for zebras. You know? So and that was the basis, the genesis of my book. And first quote in it is from Doctor Seuss, Oda thinks you will think. You know, it says these are just beautiful things that surround us that we don’t we don’t absorb enough, that we don’t, because we’re too busy chasing the technology.

Wendy Dodds:
I love that. Just kinda tying all of this back into creativity and then talking a little bit about, your legacy and those life lessons, and then, you know, bringing that back to your kids. Rob, what life lessons do you hope to impart to your 2 sons, especially regarding, creativity and self awareness?

Robert Smith:
And that’s something that is really important to me with with the boys is that they feel comfortable in their own skins, that they are comfortable about who they are as a person. And, that’s something that I really, on every level of them growing up, those years, is taken to do activities. I remember, taking them to the National Gallery, when they were 6 and 8. And my ex said, you’re gonna bring them to an art gallery. They’re gonna get bored. And I said, that’s fine. I wanna expose them to it. And if, you know, if they’re bored when we get there, we’re gonna leave and go for lunch and have fun.

Robert Smith:
We were there for 3 hours. It was fantastic. You know, they were asking questions and they’re why this and why that. And and it just opened up to great conversation about interpretation. And that’s what was nice about, you know, showing them art is there’s no right or wrong answer. You know? And they, well, what does this painting mean? I said, what does that mean to you? How do you feel when you look at it? You know? And I can give them art history, and I did a little bit. The why. You know, why are all these paintings dark? Well, it was during a wartime and, you know, that’s what what they were feeling.

Robert Smith:
How do you feel? So, legitimizing, their feelings. And because we can get particularly with art galleries, you get kind of, you you feel intimidated going, well, there’s a Picasso. It’s like, I don’t get it. It’s like, well, it’s not about getting it. It it it’s it’s about how do you feel? I don’t like it. There you go. That’s what it’s about. You don’t like it, but why?

Wendy Dodds:
I love that. What a great way to help them identify self expression, but also be able to, be able to express and experience conversation. I I just I love that example of taking your kids to the art gallery and just what that can, do in terms of not just building your relationship with your sons, but being able to hear from their perspective and foster that conversation and dynamic, I think that’s amazing.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm. And if and it it goes even further than that because it’s we live in a world right now that is so take sides. Right? We we we yeah. You’re you’re right. I’m wrong. I’m right. You’re wrong. It’s it’s it’s and and to allow for and to get back to him, perhaps this is where the the creative and the artistic can help lead, lead us back to is this notion of that there are many answers.

Rob Dale:
There’s you know, at the risk of being cliche ish, there’s many shades of gray, and and and to be able to come in and recognize that we can have conversations. We can have opinions. We can embrace those with differing ideas without one having to be right and one having to be wrong.

Robert Smith:
And it’s wonderful. One of the things I enjoy the most about teaching, because I teach part time at the college level, is giving, a room of 20 students the same briefing. And then seeing all of the different explorations, all the different approaches. And that, I love. The unfortunate thing in that process is that I have to assign a mark to it, which is and that’s something I tell my students is, forget the marks. Forget the marks. It’s the school needs some sort of a a baseline. But when you’re putting your portfolio together and when you’re looking at your work, disregard the marks.

Robert Smith:
I’ve I’ve had students with 8 classes that I felt were not great designers. They were great at doing homework. Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Yeah. You, so I again, I I’ve known you a long time, and so I know this is really legit about you. Again, you’ve I tease you about, you know, you’re this everything you do. You’re so great. You’ve written all this stuff. That legitimately doesn’t go to your head. Like, you get awards.

Rob Dale:
You get all of the accolades, and and you’ve even you’ve used the language with me in the past that those are just byproducts. Those are those are not what you’re aiming for. It’s not what you’re chasing. You’re not trying to be the guy that everybody looks to and, you know, kinda falls, on their, you know, worship you and everything like this. What is it that you’re chasing? What is it that is success for you?

Robert Smith:
What I’m chasing is, I I’m chasing the next solution. I’ve been chasing the next thing, the next way to express going back to my childhood. It’s like, what’s in the room here? I got some watercolor paint and some paper from the printer. Okay. Let’s go. You know, I’m constantly I’ve got my phone with me, and I’m constantly, when I’m out about doing things, sending myself notes, saying, hey. What about this? What about that? You know, and I’ll doodle it down. So I got post it notes and things like that.

Robert Smith:
So for me, it’s that next challenge. It’s that next, creative, problem solving, situation. And that might be through meeting a client who needs a new brand. That might be working on my 3rd book, which I may or may not be doing. I can’t confirm nor deny.

Wendy Dodds:
Gonna be about cows? I hope it’s gonna be about cows. Like, zebras sounds great. Let’s make it about cows or hamsters.

Robert Smith:
No. No. This one’s called 3 cushions and a blanket.

Rob Dale:
Oh, you’ll even like that even more.

Wendy Dodds:
Well, I love that. I’m all about the cushions and the blankets.

Robert Smith:
So it’s about, how, it’s it’s it’s basically an essay on on the third space. The first space in our world is home. The second space is work. The third space is where we are where we are creative, where there aren’t any rules, where we’re able to express ourselves. And so, I do how to lay out your office for that 3rd space and how these things some people’s 3rd space is being nomadic. And other people, it’s being a cottage, you know, a cabin in the woods. But when I got into riping it, my first chapter kind of evolved, but it went, oh my god. We do this as kids.

Robert Smith:
All we need is 3 cushions and a blanket. And we build a fort. No parents allowed. We’ll bring in snacks. We’ll bring in a book, and that’s our space.

Wendy Dodds:
I love snacks.

Robert Smith:
Okay. I believe our article’s too close to lunch.

Wendy Dodds:
Right? All joking aside, Rob, your passion I mean, you just you can just you can just feel it. You and I have only met, I think, once face to face, but I feel like I’ve known you for so long because I just I I feel your passion. You can just you know, our listeners are just gonna feel it just coming right off of their screens if they’re watching it or or or listening to it. And I just think that that is such a great, I wanna say tool. You’re not a tool, but it’s such a great, I’m trying to think of the right word. It’s such a great attribute to have to help people be able to find their purpose and be able to express themselves. So if you were to give one piece of advice, to those struggling to find purpose amidst their careers, what would it be?

Robert Smith:
Don’t listen to the jerks. I mean, yeah, political. Right? Yeah. I can easily say don’t

Rob Dale:
listen to the You could say the assholes. Yeah.

Robert Smith:
Yep. And it and it goes back to the the the that I remember, when Sinead O’Connor was singing, and they booed her. And I forget the arse that came up, and he’s put his arm around her, and and he said, don’t listen to the assholes. And, again, it’s it’s like, there’s 2 levels. Don’t listen to the assholes, and the first asshole is you. So you aren’t gonna be your own worst enemy always. So you really have to, embrace that. And then once you know that, I think because, you know, a lot of us, and I know I’ve been guilty of this is, is, is we chase relationships because that dilutes the time of self awareness.

Robert Smith:
It’s like I’ve got somebody else I’ve got back. I’ve got a safety net I’ve got, and we don’t spend enough time on our own to really love ourselves, understand ourselves, and then move on. So I think the the biggest thing you can do is really get to know yourself.

Wendy Dodds:
I love that.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. I I there’s your 4th book. Don’t listen to the assholes. You write that down. I’ll happy to write the foreword for you. But but I

Robert Smith:
think what the illustration would be.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. No. That’s powerful. I think it’s it it’s they’re so we are so prone to doing exactly that and the notion of it. And I love it because I I can only so I don’t this is a script I’m changing about myself, by the way. I one of my scripts that I’ve I’ve had for a long time is I’m not creative, and I’m calling bullshit on that because to to I I think everyone is creative, has a creative bent to themselves, and you only have to go back to as a child. I was very as a child, I was very creative at creating imaginary scenarios and stories and characters and and all of that, and so the creative is in all of us. But over the course of time, you listen to enough assholes, you listen to enough jerks that you hold back and you stop allowing that creative expression to come out.

Robert Smith:
So it’s, my mentor, who, wrote this poster here, if you don’t believe in you, they don’t believe in you. That hit so hard. I love that so deeply. So he just posted last week, and it’s something I feel strongly about as well. I’m calling bullshit, and it was about people talking about, creativity and, alcohol and and, drug use. And, oh, we get creative when we put this stuff in. And he said, I’m calling bullshit on that. And and I and I’m the same as that it is our way as adults to remove the walls to allow creativity.

Robert Smith:
Some of us are just are lucky to not have walls sober. And, you know, I always joke that, you know, Friday night at midnight in any city, there’s a group of friends that are either starting a craft brewery or a band. Mhmm. Right? And it and it’s because they’ve had enough to drink and they’re just like, oh, this is fun. Let’s get creative. And it’s like, you don’t need to. So Rob, to your point, you know, you’re creative. You just need to get over, you know, yourself.

Rob Dale:
Tear down those walls.

Robert Smith:
Yep. There we go.

Wendy Dodds:
Rob, if you think about kinda continuing on your journey of living a richly creative life and the daily practices or mindsets that you have in place right now and those routines that continue to keep you energized, engaged after, 30 years in this industry, what would you say would be 1 or 2 daily practices or mindset tips that you use as part of your day to day?

Robert Smith:
So for me, it’s, it’s about the space that I work in. Like, you can see behind me, it’s just it’s it’s an open desk. There’s no technology around it. I sit in a swivel chair, and right now I’m facing my computer. So I have 2 zones in my office. When I’m creating, when I’ve gotta come up with the logo or write a a a line on something or whatever, I spin around, and I am facing my creative wall, and and my Mexican wrestling mask and my kerplunk reminded me to play. And, I have no there’s no pings. There’s no emails.

Robert Smith:
There’s nothing. I’m just there. I put on some music. I’ve got a nice turntable here. Put on some music depending on my mood, and I can create. And then when it’s like, oh, this is a good idea, I just simply spin around. There’s a computer waiting for me, and then I can execute. Oh, I love that.

Robert Smith:
So I’m using these things, for their best purposes. And that’s one thing that stemmed out of the, you know, 3 cushions and blanket. That that whole idea of zones, and physical intention. So, that’s important. When I face my computer, it’s all post it notes of things I’ve gotta do do, things a lot like that.

Wendy Dodds:
I really like that because you’ve been you know, it’s about being intentional with your space. And the first thing that popped into into my mind is we’ve talked a lot about gratitude practices, you know, reflection practices, meditation, or whatever, and part of it is create the environment that is gonna be able to support that. So, it’s just it’s fascinating listening to you talk about your environment and how you’ve designed it, so that it works for you. I love that.

Rob Dale:
Oh, it’s so good. We’re we’re almost out of time. We got 2 more questions for you. I’m gonna ask the first one, and I’ll leave the the the last question for Wendy to to toss out your way. If you were able to go back to your younger self, that that teenager feeling isolated, feeling misunderstood, feeling a little bit lost, and you could just kinda speak to that person who just is in that, and and not just to your younger self, but for those who are listening who are in that space of feeling like I don’t fit in. I’m I I I’m not I am misunderstood, all of those things. What would you say to that person?

Robert Smith:
So to that person, so there’s 2 sizes. 1 is, to that person is, beat yourself. Particularly now, it’s great because we are niche marketed now. Like we are able through technology to speak to a smaller audience and have big impact. So the things that make you interesting, you will find your tribe. You will find your people. They will find you as long as you stay the course to be consistent. If I talk to myself, back in the day, it would be learn money.

Robert Smith:
I was not taught money in school. I was not taught taught money by my parents. That’s something that they took care of, And that’s, you know, that’s been a struggle for me. People, when I was young, that I was exposed to were wealthy people and they were people that I didn’t like. They did not share my worldview. I found them gross. And so I spent a lot of my life, not attracting money because I didn’t wanna become gross, like them. And it was only in recent years that I realized that money allows me to do the free coaching that I do for students, that allows me to take less of a salary at college to teach people in this profession, which I love doing.

Robert Smith:
But in order to do that, you need a certain amount of an income. Right? So, and that’s something I have to talk to my students about is understand money, understand budgeting, understand those things. And it’ll just take a lot of pressure off of you.

Wendy Dodds:
So good. So good. Final question, Rob, to wrap up. It’s been just such a wonderful opportunity to hear your story and and, and talk with you. If you think about your ongoing journey and living richly and putting those two things together, you can be creative this with this one. I know you can. What does living your best life mean to you?

Robert Smith:
Living my best life. So, I parallel this to my book and talk about, success, except I call it suckcess, simply because anytime I reached what society considers success, I hated it. It was awful. And so I struggle with, well, what does success mean? I don’t understand. And I remember one day vividly, you know, when when your kids get older, they’re crazy expensive. Right? And so, my boys are, you know, we’re we’re in their their late teens, early twenties. And we would go out to a movie. We love going out to movies, then going out for drinks and snacks afterwards and talking about the movie.

Robert Smith:
And, just a wonderful thing. And I remember one night particularly, I was paying for our drinks at the bar, and I stopped and went, wow. At no point did I check my bank account. At no point was I concerned that I had enough money in my bank account to pay for this night with the boys? And, you know, a night like that can run $300, you know, or more. And and I stopped. I went, there’s there’s my success, is that I’m able to do that and have this time with them. So for me, that was that, you know, that struggle. So living, living, a a rich life for me is being able to express myself, as I see fit in whatever medium.

Robert Smith:
I just recently Rob doesn’t know this I just re recently started doing stand up comedy. Oh, nice. And, yeah. So I’ve been doing a bunch of that, and it’s been super well. So it’s just another way of expressing myself and just, the confidence and the freedom to be able to do that, I I just absolutely love. And it was to push myself. When I speak at conferences, I’ve got a safety net. I’m talking about creativity.

Robert Smith:
It’s something that I know intrinsically. So I can talk for hours about that confidently, but stand up’s pretty different. And so, it’s been a great we talked earlier about, you know, pushing yourself. What’s next? And how do you keep going? And that’s one of them. It involves my writing. It involves stage presence. And, it’s been a a wonderful, wonderful thing to to do.

Rob Dale:
Oh, that’s so good. And and, I was I was gonna trying to come up with some kind of a joke and tease you or say something, but I’m just gonna leave it at you know, I I’m excited for you. I I genuinely, deeply respect and appreciate you. I value you as being someone in my life, and so appreciate you taking the time to be a part of of our, of our episode, of this episode, and being a part of the Living Rich Lee nation. You really do bring a lot to the table, and I I I I’m grateful for you to be in my life, Rob.

Robert Smith:
Oh, thank you so much. I mean, we’ve been we’ve known each other for so many years. And, again, you, particularly when you get to a certain age, your people are your people. And sometimes you meet them later in life, and sometimes you meet them early in life. And I’m just fortunate, to have met you, for example, later in life. And and, that’s been very special to me. And and, this this experience was just wonderful with you, and Wendy, thoroughly enjoyed it.

Rob Dale:
Thank you. We wanna thank all of you for taking the time to tune in to listen in on the the episode today. If this has been speaking to you, you know some creatives in your life. What a great opportunity to not only just like and subscribe to the channel, but to share this out and to maybe share it with some people who who struggle with fitting in, who struggle and and have maybe said to you, I feel like I’m misunderstood. What a great opportunity to give a gift to them by just sharing out this episode and saying you might, grab a few, some great nuggets of truth here, listening to this episode. We wanna encourage you to check out our website, livingrichly.me. One of the things that you can do is, join our 15 day life vision challenge.

Wendy Dodds:
So good.

Rob Dale:
It has been amazing to see the feedback that we are getting over this challenge. And here’s what one of the great things is it does is it helps you write down and figure out exactly who you are, what matters to you. And, that’s the opportunity you have through the challenge. So we wanna encourage you to sign up for that. It’s completely free, and it really is a tool that we are providing to the Living Richly Nation as our way of giving back and supporting you on your journey. Thank you for being a part of our episode today. Thank you for, really supporting all that we’re doing, and we can’t wait to see you next time.

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