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This episode came at the request of our listeners who asked us to speak about two topics: Uncertainty and gratitude. Eric, Rob, and Trefor share their perspectives on each including what they mean, how they experience them, and how they interact with both concepts on a daily basis.

 You can watch the videos of all of the Living Richly Podcast episodes on the Living Richly YouTube Channel.

Show Notes for Episode 21

Lots of great content in this episode so we hope you enjoy it!

Rob shared his experience with two authors who both shared their very personal stories about gratitude.

The first was Linda Fishman’s book Repairing Rainbows about the loss of her mother and siblings in a tragic plane crash.

The second was by Giuseppe Moschella called 10 Simple Ways to Find Happiness which flows from his experiences in Italy during the pandemic.

Both are worth a read!

Episode 21: Uncertainty and Gratitude

No, I don’t think are doing their very best with what they have in every moment, but that’s how I choose to see them.       

Rob Dale, Eric Deschamps, Trefor Munn-Venn

Hi, and welcome to the Living Richly Podcast. My name is Rob Dale and I’m here with my great friends, Eric Deschamps and Trefor Munn-Venn. And we’ve got a, a special episode today. Now every episode is, sorry about this one. Every episode is special because you’re talking There was that one. It was just Okay. There was a couple.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Won’t name which one, but episodes. No. Uh uh, real excited because we have all, uh, over the course of certainly the last number of episodes have encouraged more and more, uh, for people to leave their comments to, to, for you to leave your thoughts, uh, you know, to, how are you being? Through, uh, the, uh, the episodes and through this podcast and, uh, there’s just been so many wonderful comments on all.

I know I’ve experienced it. You guys have shared, uh, individually, we’ve received emails and, and, uh, text messages and comments even when we’re working with clients. Uh, from people who have been, uh, just appreciating so much, uh, what we are, uh, talking about in the conversations we’re having and how they’re implement, kind of how they’re bringing them into their own lives.

Uh, and we, we really want to encourage you to continue to do, uh, just that, share your thoughts, share your comments, uh, you know, whether it’s in the episode, uh, adding comments or by sending us a note, uh, as well. And, uh, a number of you have done that, as I mentioned. And what we’re gonna be doing today is we are going to be focusing in on a few of those comments and questions.

We’ve been invited to talk about a few things, uh, and, uh, there’s been a number, I think we’re gonna cover maybe four of them today. Yeah. Uh, and, uh, two of them are topics. Two of them are questions that people have said. We’d love to hear you just share a little bit. Uh, about these. And so, uh, I want us to do that today and I’m looking forward to being able to, to do that.

So, so it’s gonna be a little bit of a different, uh, episode in the sense that we’re gonna kind of almost do a, a cut and then change topic, uh, or maybe they’ll just naturally, uh, flow once, uh, to the next. We’ll see how, or we’ll spend an entire hour just answering one question or Exactly. Or could happen, could happen, or this will end up being four different episodes.

It really comes down to the quality of our host. It it, it comes down to it really is it, you know, and I, I think I mentioned this to you guys before, did such a great job. I get so many comments from people that go, damn Rob, like, you really do carry those guys. No, you don’t. No, you don’t. I can show them to you.

I send them to myself all the time. I have a separate, I send them to myself. I have another email account. I just send emails to, uh, Robert, uh, Rhapsody. You’re technically a listener. You’re that one star rating we got, aren’t you? No. One star rating dinner. They’re all five songs. They rating have been all five.

They have been. Thank you for that, by the way. Yeah, absolutely. Appreciate it. Yeah. Thousands of downloads now. Yep. Uh, tons of great reviews. Yeah. Uh, And what about 25% of our listeners, uh, that tune. Via video on YouTube. Yep. So, uh, really fantastic that you’re here today and really looking forward to answering some of your questions.

For some of you that have been listening to the, uh, podcast, uh, through one of the, whether it’s Apple or Spotify, uh, one of those, and then you decided to go to YouTube to see what we look like. Uh, I’m sorry.

This is it. Not as much as I am. Wow. Now I am too.

Wanna, and our question today, how to deal with hurt. Hurt. Disappointment. Disappointment. How to deal. How to deal with disappointment. That’s what they look like. Let down. Right, right. Well, what’s expectations, right? It is, it is. It’s on you, not on us. We sound, we we sound so much better. We sound beautiful.

We have, we have. We. And we have perfect faces for radio. We have a great face for radio. Yep. Yep. Uh, so let’s talk about, let’s maybe dive right in on the first topic. That’s a good idea, Ron. Uh, before we get ourselves into a lot of trouble here, so, uh, one of our listeners, uh, been certainly been following along, I think right from the very beginning, uh, reached out and this Yeah, absolutely.

And reached out and, uh, and asked us when, when we asked the question, what topics would you like us to cover? Kinda give us just one word, said, uncertainty. Yeah. Which I’m a little uncertain about what he. Yes. Is is, isn’t that the hotel? Oh, the whole challenge of uncertainty is yes. Trying, feeling, trying to locate ourselves, right?

Relative to a context we don’t fully understand. Right. When life shows up in an uncertain way, when we find ourselves unclear about the way forward or facing a new challenge. We’re a new season of our lives. Uncertainty is, uh, a companion Uncertainty is very present Yeah. In those moments. And, um, I, I think it’s, it can be very, all of us have found ourselves at moments like that and it’s not a comfortable place to be.

Yeah. Right. And, and I think the question from JP, and thank you, uh, JP for asking it, is how to deal with uncertainty. How do you, how do you deal with it? I think there’s an element we, we have to fully embrace It is actually the first part and, and interestingly, uncertainty is a core human need. It’s a core need.

Right? Right. The notion, while we’re looking for certainty in a range of areas, The, uh, like around food, shelter, safety, we want certainty around that. Once we get outta that, we’re actually looking for variety, right? Which is another word for uncertainty. It’s like the, this transitional thing. And the, the example I love is, um, it’s actually around sumo wrestling.

So sumo wrestlers. Are you sumo wrestler track? It’s, uh, I, I have many dark sides to me. And that’s not one of them. No, I’m not. You have a YouTube channel. You gonna put that in the show? So Sumo wrestlers, the, they all belong to a sumo house and that’s where you stay and train and live in your career. They live in and they play, they sleep in a, a sumo bed and they eat sumo food and they’re sumo pillows.

Sumo pets. Wow. The, uh, they eat the same meal every day. They have sumo friends. They eat the same meal every day, and each Sumo house has a, their own kind of basically recipe for this high calorie stew that, that gets eaten every single day. And whenever a sumo wrestler changes houses, it’s like a, it’s a big deal.

But one of the reasons that almost always comes up, Is they just need a change of the food. It’s the lack of variety. Hmm. Uh, that they know exactly what it’s gonna be like. So it’s meeting all their needs, but it, it hasn’t got the variety that they’re looking for. And like, and for all of us, there are pieces where we want to know that we’re gonna be able to eat every day.

But we don’t want to have the same meal every day, right? We, we want some, some of that. If we look and go, oh, it’s uncertainty. The language of fear starts to creep into it as well. Life is absolutely full of uncertainty or variety or the unexpected. It is, its nature. And so, uh, this is why I think it’s so important to accept and embrace that it’s just part of it.

Because if we spend a lifetime trying to control everything around it and trying to hold variety or uncertainty at bay, you will not win. It’s impossible, right? Yeah. And so for us to try to resist what is right, the fundamental of what is, is, uh, it’s a recipe for disaster. Well, well, in many ways they’re both, they’re two sides of the same coin.

Yeah. Like, to your point, it’s not an either or. Either I have certainty or I have variety. I think certainty and uncertainty live together, uh, constantly. As a matter of fact. Too much certainty. And that can lead to you being closed. Yeah. Uh, right. Like and applying the same. Uh, uh, knowledge or experience to new situations.

Assuming that that what was certain and worked in a previous context is just gonna automatically work in another certainty. We can borrow lessons much like our past. We can borrow lessons and wisdom glean and whatever else, but there’s a measure of uncertainty in just about everything that we do, cuz there’s gonna be a new nuance, a new challenge, a new player.

Uh, so it’s, it’s that these two things live in creative tension Yeah. As opposed to, I want one or the other. I like, uh, and I’m pondering what you said about that using kind of almost interchanging the word uncertainty with variety. One is seen from a very negative standpoint, one seen from a very, uh, positive, uh, standpoint.

And yet I’m depending on your point of view, I, right, right, right. Uh, I, I’m, what I, I’m kind of like, hmm. Think this one a bit is when I hear somebody say, I’d like you to talk about uncertainty. Um, my sense is, well, I don’t know if they’re really asking us to talk about variety, and yet maybe that is ex to your point.

That’s because words matter, right? Uh, I think of uncertainty. I think of, uh, you know, the unknown or. Whatever, whatever, whether even that’s the right word. I I, I, I wonder exactly what is the thinking of what the, the, because when we think of uncertainty, we, we often will think, what’s the fear, right? It’s like, well, I don’t know.

Fear unknown. If, if I do this, I don’t know what’s gonna happen. It’s not, if I do this, I’m gonna have variety in my life. Right. Um, so there’s a, and I think you said it a little bit earlier, we get to choose our point of view. Yeah, no, I love that. The word, so that’s the first thing to exercise. I, I’m not suggesting, oh, look, I’ve had a terrible car accident.

What Lovely variety in my life. Right? It’s like, no, I have car accident lot. Right. Exactly. I get two. Experienced an accident since, since the last time. Right. So it’s not that. I, I think what helps us navigate uncertainty when there is, when and if there is fear involved around it, is something stronger or more meaningful, where we do have certainty.

Yeah. Right. You, you can’t control the world. You can’t control what’s going to happen. You can’t control the, what anyone’s gonna say or do or think, and yet how, how much time do we spend trying to do that? It’s being, I, I think our, our ability to navigate uncertainty is directly proportional to our connection to what we are certain about, what we, what we value.

Let’s go back to the model, right? Right. Uh, how we live it out, how we reinforce it through our practices, right? All of these things mean whatever’s happening out there, good, bad, ugly. Uh, is not going to determine what’s going on inside. Right. Right. And so it’s to recognize the outside is not the inside.

Yeah. We just, cuz it’s, it’s dark or you know, it’s raining today and some people go, oh, it’s raining. I feel miserable. I’m like, wow. Spring, you’re susceptible to the weather. Right, right. Like, and it’s, and I get, you know, around, uh, access to sunlight and things like that, that start to play out. But if it’s, if it’s each external thing is going to drive our internal state, then the solution is actually an internal one, right?

Not, not an external one, right? I, I call it in, in uncertainty. I call it untangling the unknown, right? Mm-hmm. Uh, getting clear on, all right, so what I don’t know is, And what, what are the things I don’t know about when I look at this circumstance, this challenge, the season of my life that I’m in? What are the things I don’t honestly know I can’t answer, I can’t solve for?

Uh, but then also get clear. What I don’t know is this, this is a great reflective exercise by the way, uh, for anyone who’s dealing with uncertainty is to literally, uh, if, if you journal or you. To write down what are all the things about this season of my life challenge or circumstance that I don’t know.

Do you start with what do I know? I often start, I often start with, I prefer to start with what I do know. And then it depends. It depends on the situation. Yep. They’re interchangeable, but then, uh, to sit down and say, okay, but what do I know? Okay. And one of the things to your point, like, uh, one of the best places you can anchor yourself is how.

What kind of person have you decided to be that you are leaning into? How do you want to show up? Uh, listen, whether it’s a business challenge that you’re facing, a relationship challenge, a financial challenge, a health challenge, you, what you have control over is how you decide to show up in that. And I wonder if that’s the, the next.

So, uh, what do I know? What don’t I know? And then however, you, let’s, so what do I. What don’t I know? What do I have control over? Right? And I think, and then, and then what, how do I want, for me, the control over and know is almost synonymous, right? Like the, this, because, uh, for example, my values, you were, you were alluding to it.

This is why this model that we’ve been presenting and talking about and model, it’s, it’s really four areas that you lean into and you reflect on to determine, ultimately choose the kind of life that you want to. Uh, so in the midst of uncertainty that can anchor you in a sense of self, and a, and again, a sense, uh, you draw strength from that.

We’ve referred to, uh, we’ve referred to the model that it creates your compass, your life compass. So if you’re a boat out at sea in the middle of a storm and you can’t see a hundred yards in front of you, If you got a compass, you can keep that boat pointed in the right direction and if you get blown off with confidence.

With confidence, right. And if you get blown off course right, uh, despite your best efforts, you know how to find your way home. Uh, I think it’s went to your point, we try to control the external. That’s where we get into trouble. Yeah. It all, we really have control over. Is our internal state. So untangling the unknown, what do I know and what don’t?

I know. Um, uh, and, and part of it too is I think we, um, sometimes put an unhealthy expectation ourselves to, to get it right and I better get this right and if I don’t get it right, like the fear of failure right, is a real thing. The fear of making a mistake. Uh, I know a lot of people, uh, who are very unhappy in their current job, career, marriage, relationship.

But, and they stay in those contexts, almost bemoaning them on a regular daily basis. How I’m unhappy, I’m unfulfilled. I hate my job. I think my boss an idiot. Like right. There’re they’re, this is the constant sort of communication that’s coming at ’em, but they won’t make a change. And and why is that? It’s because of uncertainty.

Better the devil I know. Than the devil. I don’t, as the saying goes right. Um, but part of it is letting ourselves off the hook. I, uh, uh, this is a bit of a different analogy, but it circles back. I was listening to somebody talk about delegation, and it’s a problem in leadership. We know that it’s the number one issue, become a leader.

And what’s the first bit of advice people will give you? You need to learn how to delegate, yet no one shows you how to do that effectively. It’s, it’s a, it’s a, it’s a real problem. Uh, but one of the key reasons people don’t delegate. Is they’re afraid that their people will get it wrong. They’ll make them a bad decision, they’ll make it wrong.

And, and so the, the, the author or the speaker was talking to this leader and the leader said, I’m afraid they’ll get it wrong. And, and the, the, the, uh, the, the person interview stopped him, said, well, have you ever made a bad decision? Have you ever got it wrong? And the leader said, well, of course I have.

And what did you do when you got it wrong? I made it. Right, exactly. Yeah. So what we teach, uh, in, in delegation our people is if they get it wrong, how to make it. Getting yourself the freedom to know you’re not always gonna get it right in uncertainty. You’re not always gonna make the right call, the right choice.

Uh, there are things you can do, like get input from others and do your due diligence and do your homework. Especially when you figure out, what is it that I don’t know. Now all of a sudden you’re like, oh. What can I do about what I don’t know? Is there information I’m missing? Are there people I can talk to?

Right? Is there a book I can read like, like how can I inform that sort of missing part of the equation? But at the end of the day, even with all that preparation, You may get it wrong. Uh, so what are you gonna do then? You just make it right. Uh, so, but there’s this fear that, uh, somehow, like again, we, we talked about this in the stress episode.

We make everything a catastrophe, right? And I think when it comes to making a big decision or, or facing a challenge, there’s this tremendous fear that somehow. This’ll be the end of me if I don’t get this quite right. There’s the whole, you know, uh, what’s the worst that could happen? Uh, right. What’s the best that could happen?

The worst that could happen’s? What’s most likely What Most likely. Yeah. And, and Right. Usually plays out. Yeah. It, it really does. And it, and it, it removes some of that, that fear, some of that, you know, again, uh, to, to be able to move forward even in the midst of, of uncertainty. And, you know, this plays out organizationally as well as individual.

Right. If an organization actually says, we’re clear on our values and how we do things, we recognize we’re not gonna get it right all the time, but we are gonna make it right when we do and, and that conversation is out in the open all the time. It gives you actually permission to, to say, I’m gonna give it my best.

I’m gonna do what I can. If I get it wrong, we’re gonna work together and we’re, we’re gonna solve it. And that’s okay. Yeah. And it, and it lets you actually encounter uncertainty with some confidence and some clarity without having to control everything. Right? And not holding yourself to an impossible standard.

Right. Uh, what is it? Uh, do the best you can with what you have. Then when you learn a better way, do that. Yeah. But you can only do the best you can, like with what you have in the moment. Right? Yeah. Um, I think one of the most powerful statements, cuz I, I was a, I was a champion at holding myself to an unrealistic expectations and one of the most liberating.

Statements, and this was back in 2017, uh, when I was getting help, I was in my burnout. I was off, right? Like it was really bad. Um, but it was, uh, it was actually a meme fun, funnily enough that came across my feed. But that it said, forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn’t know until you learned it, right?

Uh, we hold ourselves to these expecta. You’re gonna do the, I think most people do the best they can with what they’ve got in the moment. Um, and again, if you don’t get it right in the uncertainty, you make a bad. Make it right. So it’s a, that’s an interesting statement cause I love that. I love that people are doing the best they can with what they got in the moment.

And, and I think it was not always, but, so, and, and I was chatting with Carrie about it cuz she was listening, I think to, uh, Brene Brown and her husband. Mm. Talk about it. And, and I forget how the conversation went exactly, but I, I think they, they asked, do you believe that? And, and I think it was Britney Brown’s husband that kind of paused for a few minutes, thought about it.

And he goes, no. I don’t think people are doing their very best. With what they have in every moment, but that’s how I choose to see them. Right, and, and, and so giving people the benefit of the doubt. Yeah. It was like, it was not about how are they doing and are they getting it right? Are they doing their best or not?

It’s like, I am going to choose, yeah. In terms of how I navigate through life. To believe that about people because it’s about how I’m experiencing this situation, not about what standard are they operating at. And I just loved that. I love it too. I loved that. I think it, it is that notion of, uh, yeah, in hindsight, could I have done differently?

I just think a lot of us, uh, we do that. We beat ourselves up unnecessarily. Uh, to say, is it our best, best effort? Well, maybe not, but did we give it a sincere try? Uh, and if not, we can learn from that. Um, and we want to believe that about other people, as you said, like, I choose to believe that about other people.

Yeah. Think about how important it’s to choose to believe that about you. That right, there’s no malicious intent here. I’m not deliberately trying to sabotage my own life or make bad decisions or poor choices. Uh, you know, am I always giving my best ever? Perhaps not, but I, I am making. See your effort to do the best I can with what I’ve got.

Yeah. Um, and again, if I make a bad mis, if I make a mistake and I’ve made plenty of them, I’m sure we all have, uh, it’s then how do I make it right? Uh, so it’s almost like almo normalizing. More in our lives normalizing that mistakes will be made, that bad choices will sometimes happen. That wrong cor a wrong course will be set.

And that we’re able to then adjust, learn from it again. There’s no failure. Only winning and learning. Yeah. And so to back to the kind of what the, the topic dealing with uncertainty, it may be, uh, the reason we. In, uh, act into an area of uncertainty as a fear of getting it wrong. Mm-hmm. Um, fear of failure.

Yeah. I think it, and, and I think there’s been some great questions and comments that we’ve, we’ve, uh, provided here around some of the things that you might want to consider or ask when you are f. Facing an uncertain situation, uh, uh, you know, may not be an action where I’m, you know, uh, again, so, so how we face those, those, uh, those things.

And maybe another question might be, uh, when you’re facing or dealing, needing to deal with an uncertainty is to be able to ask the question, well, what, what are you afraid of here? What is right? What’s the fear here? Uh, and then be able to identify and go, okay, so is that a fear that, you know, I’m fearful of looking silly, or I’m fearful of, of whatever it might be?

And then, and then being able to address that. Anything else that you would say here are, when you’ve had to deal with uncertainty in your own lives, what are some of those tactics, uh, or, or, uh, practices that have helped you deal better with. I’d say the other one I’d mentioned just in this moment is, uh, understanding that I’ll never have all the information I need, uh, to make, uh, a decision and make it with complete confidence, right.

That, uh, that I’m gonna do. I’m gonna do what I can to be as informed as I can. I’m not a fan. I mean, I used to be in my younger years, but, uh, uh, right. Uh, I, you know, into my younger years, it was like where fools rush in, right? Move fast and furiously. Um, and so I value now doing my due diligence and considering my options and, uh, getting informed.

But I’ve come to recognize that, again, part of taking a risk, part of making a change is a degree of uncertainty that you can’t solve. Uh, or, or sometimes even anticipate until you take the step, until you get into motion, they go, oh, I hadn’t thought of that. Right. Or, I hadn’t anticipated that. And then I think, I think that.

Part of the, um, uh, the amazing part of that hu of our human journey is, uh, the learning that happens and the mm-hmm. The, the, the, the perspective that shifts and expands. Right. So to not be, uh, afraid of it, but to, to actually embrace it, it’s, it’s part of the adventure. It wouldn’t be an adventure if it was completely mapped out from start to finish and happened exactly as predicted.

That would be more like an. Right. I love that. Let’s, let’s change the language from dealing with uncertainty to embracing uncertainty. Embracing uncertainty, embracing the adventure. Right, right. Embracing the adventure, for sure. Anything that you would add to that tr I’d say choose anyway. Right. Uh, make it.

Right. Collect what you can and then go, right, right. Because it’s in motion that we have choice. When we’re not in motion, we actually kind of give up a lot of our ability to choose. We end up stuck. And when we’re in motion, I always think about it. If you’re on the highway and traffic has come to a complete standstill, you can’t do anything.

You can’t change lanes. But if there’s, unless you have a jeep, if you’re especially have lanes, if you have a Jeep, it’s like, what’s a lane? If you’re, even if you’re moving one mile an hour, one kilometer an hour, you, you can make choices, right? You can start to head over to a different lane. You can indicate, you can do all kinds of things, but when you’re at a complete standstill, your choices disappear.

Right? So take some kind of motion for you or, or, it’s hard to see them. Yeah, it’s really hard to see them when you’re not sure is not loud. I, I’m gonna make a host decision and do two things. Alright. Right. Are we gonna, the next question, well, I’m trying to anticipate your moves. Well, no, uh, I’m gonna give you some uncertainty here.

Um, so I recognize I can’t, as, as we talked about, the idea that, uh, in case you’re wondering what’s happening, yes, they’re children.

Wow. So that new topic, bitterness new topic, bitterness, how to deal with resentment and unprocessed anger. So our, we are gonna move on to the next topic. Uh, I mentioned that we have, uh, two topics and two questions. We’re gonna, we’re gonna cover the two topics in this episode. Oh, and then leave the questions for another episode.

Only be for this, just for the sake of our amount of time that we have. And because I know this next topic. Has a lot that we can, uh, we can go into, oh, okay. That will fill the rest of our time today. How much, how do we have, I dunno how much time we have. He hasn’t told us. We have all the time in the world.

There’s uncertainty around the time, but I’m gonna leave it up to you, but I’m gonna embrace the adventure, um, because I’m the only one who pays attention to Steve. I know how much time we, when did Steve get here? We’ve already had in this. Oh, hi Steve. Hi. So, I think Steve’s chipper today, isn’t it? It’s really chipper.

I didn’t, it’s the cake. He’s, that’s the sugar from the cake we had for lunch. It’s, uh, uh, I think from now on, every episode at some point should have Steve a shout out for Steve. Yeah, exactly. Uh, so we’ve talked about a shout out or him shouting at us. Dealing with unc. Now let’s, let’s move to the, another topic that was asked, uh, to discuss, and that is the topic of gratitude.

Mm. Oh. And, um, very grateful you went to that. Good. Yeah. I’m grateful that you’re grateful that I went to that. Uh, and this was Thank you. Thank you. A topic that was brought up by a friend of, of all, someone we all, uh, know. Yeah. Someone you have worked closely with. Yeah. Uh, so maybe you could just, uh, open up the conversation the.

Kind of a little bit of an overview of how I can give you a little context of context of Yvonne here. Yeah, Yvonne. Thank you for the question. The, uh, so before, before I share this, uh, let me tell people, Yvonne and I have talked about this. Uh, she’s given me permission to tell this story and in a close context, but we’re doing it on a public No, in a public context.

No, no. What she say? This is important. She said this is important. You share it with the guys. Yeah, that’s. She didn’t say how well she, he is sharing it with the guys now. Go ahead, go ahead. The go ahead and bring her life into full public. You so, so, uh, earlier this week, uh, I was with her as she celebrated one year of sobriety.

And it was an incredible experience and she was feeling very grateful and was focused on gratitude about where she is in her life and all the things that have changed. Yvonne’s incredible human. And uh, and it was interesting because while I was, while I was there with this group, and it was the first time I’d been to an AA meeting to, to see the dynamic and to hear it, it was moving.

It was beautiful. It was, there were so many things I, I loved about it and how they. Meet each other, see each other, bring zero judgment, meet each other just where they are. It was incredible. But they also, um, a couple of them said, I’m a grateful alcoholic. I was like, whoa. A, and then to hear them describe how their recovery has transformed their lives and how they’re grateful for these experiences.

And so Yvonne was in a place of expressing her gratitude, a around it, and others were. Linking it to what they were going through. And it was, it was absolutely powerful. And so she’s asked if we would talk about it and, uh, appreciate it so much, Yvonne, because it’s that notion of gratitude really is a powerful, powerful thing.

And I think one of the things that’s so striking for me is you can’t hold gratitude. And really anything negative at the same time in difficult, the same moment, difficult, very, very difficult, if not impossible. Yeah. It’s, uh, it’s just incredible. It, it kind of displaces other things. It’s hard for me, you know, like Rob, I, I hard to be like, bitter with you and grateful for you in this, in the same moment.

Like, it’s So is that a subliminal message to It’s, I think you trying to help him. It’s subliminal. It’s, when are you in right now?

I’m uncertain now. A bit, a bit of uncertainty. Well, well, gratitude’s literally been referred to often as, uh, the most elevated of the emotions. Yeah. Uh uh Why? Because to that point, to your point, Trav one, it. It shifts your focus completely from what I don’t have, what I’m lacking, what I’m not getting, what is not working for me?

What’s resisting like? Again, our, our, we, we, we, we’ve talked about this in previous episodes, our human brains are literally have been programmed, uh, from early men, right? Like evolving humanity, uh, to now. So for millions of years has been evolving with this pretty strong negativity. Uh, right that we tend to see the world, uh, from a fear-based, uh, sort of perspective.

And, and, and so it’s often on what we don’t have, what we lack. Gratitude displaces that. Gratitude shifts your focus completely over to what I am grateful for. And, uh, it helps to anchor ourselves. I mean, talk about what a great, uh, I’m glad you’re, I’m really glad you, uh, thank you for making that shift, uh, and.

Uh, uh, putting the uncertainty, uh, topic and then putting gratitude on the other side. Uh, because when we talk about uncertainty, when we talked about get clear on what you know, some of what you know and can control is what you’re grateful for, and you wanna talk about anchoring yourself. Uh, uncertainty can often produce fear.

You wanna displace fear. Um, start focusing on what you have, what is present in your life, what you’re thankful for. Um, you know, family, friends, there’s so many things that we can point to your health. Um, uh, I, I had, uh, my session yesterday with our coach Sherry, who we’re gonna get on. Um, on, on an episode and, uh, yesterday, uh, just, I mean this, I know this will air whenever it is, but I, in terms of timing, yesterday was my birthday and she, she’s so great.

She gets on the call and the first thing she starts to do, uh, is to sing me Happy Birthday. Right? She sings the whole thing to me, the whole happy birthday song to me. Uh, and then stops in like a little kid. You know how she is, right? Like a little kitchen’s like, am I the first one to sing? You have a birthday?

I’m like, yeah, you are. And uh, we were talking and earlier that day as I was reflecting and getting ready for that conversation, uh uh, I was literally overwhelmed with deep sense of gratitude. Mm-hmm. And so she gets on the call and thinking about all the changes in my life this past year, um, and which are building on years and years of work.

But in the last year, things really landed for me and I’ve talked about that. Um, uh, she then says, okay, and then she’s got a candle, so she sings me Happy Birthday, asks me if I’m the f. First one to sing to me. And I’m like, yeah. Uh, and then she said, okay, make a wish. So just like I was blowing out a candle and make a wish, I make a wish.

And, um, then she asked me later, do you mind if I ask what your wish was? And I said, well, one, the sense that I made the wish out of was one intense gratitude for everything that’s happened. And my, my wish and my intention is that, That growth continues, that journey continues, right? There is something about gratitude for me.

It’s, it’s one of my, uh, uh, important, what I call Jedi practices, like spiritual practices. Uh, I, I’ve talked on a, on the practices or rituals episode about the word grammar and that, that’s an acronym for a number of practices. It just helps me anchor myself. I can remember them easily, uh, and. Check in very quickly.

What do I need to do right now? Yeah. What do I think is most appropriate? And the GE and grammar for me is gratitude. Um, it is a powerful, powerful way to reframe your entire life, your entire experience by shifting your focus away from what you don’t have. And the lack that you’re perceiving to the abundance that is actually, uh, uh, uh, within you and around you.

So we, uh, if I could share a couple stories just to tie into that as well with, with the notion of gratitude. Um, Wendy and I took a cruise recently. Uh, and we’re on this, on the cruise. They, uh, kind of last minute they announce, uh, that they’ve got, the speakers gonna be doing this, uh, uh, talk. Two 30 in the afternoon, uh, one day on, uh, finding happiness.

And uh, so it was a day where it was, it was actually a, a day, maybe it was a bit later than that, but it was, it was right near the end. It was on a day where most people would be going into, into where at Port. And they would’ve been going into, uh, the beach and all of that kind of. Up, but people came back.

I just expected maybe five people in the room. Uh, it was full. And Wendy had said, ah, let’s go. This will be interesting. And I was kind of like, okay, uh, sure, let’s go and listen to this. It was, uh, the, the woman who was sharing it was a last minute thing where she had a, had a conversation. They said, Hey, would you be willing, the, the cruise director asked her if she’d be willing to.

To do a presentation on happiness and share a story. She said, yes, she’s written a book. Uh, she, uh, she’s from, uh, Toronto now, but she was in Montreal. She was, uh, she tells the story of, uh, in, uh, in 1970 there was a Air Canada. Plane that crashed, uh, from Montreal was going to LA crashed. All 140 people that were on board were killed, including all the crew.

Her mom and her two siblings were on that plane. Uh, she was a teenager, left her and her dad. Uh, and she tells the story and then she talks about what got her out of that and what moved her forward. And at the top of her list was gratitude and that she began to create this daily ritual of being gr uh, of gratitude.

Yeah, power. Really wonderful story, wonderful lady. I had a good conversation with her afterwards. I even say maybe she might be somebody that we might want to consider at some point, having her share her story here. Uh, really wonderful lady the next day. Uh, it’s the day before we’re gonna be getting off the ship.

And the cruise director, he’s an Italian gentleman, he’s going to do, he’s written a little book on, on, on happiness. It shows a story. He tells the story of being in Italy when covid strikes. And the whole shutdown. And of course as we know Italy Yeah. You know how devastating it was in Italy. Hit pretty hard.

Yeah. Hit pretty hard. Yeah. And talks about the story of the singing that happened. If we remember back how there was that whole kind of thing went viral of all the Italians that were getting older every day. And they did this, he said it wasn’t just, cuz it was wasn’t, it wasn’t the news. Even after all the media was done looking.

It continued to be a ritual, a daily ritual in the lives of all these Italians to sing, to be able to, to remind themselves of what to be grateful for, right? Were wasn’t that They would, uh, they would go to their window or their doors cuz everyone was in lockdown and then sing with. Their neighbors.

Exactly right. It was this. Exactly, exactly. So he tell, he tells this story and then he talks about again, the principles that he learned. Just a young guy, really nice guy, connected with him, stay, uh, in touch with him. But, uh, this notion of, again, gratitude and, and so to, when you said at the beginning how this is, it is a foundation.

For, to live richly means to live a life of gratitude. Absolutely. I mean, think of, uh, I, I know so many people that have taken like the 30 day gratitude challenge. Like every day write down at least five things that you’re grateful for. And it’s amazing how, again, that shift in focus, uh, can be so powerful and.

For me, it’s one thing to be grateful for the good things in my life. Right? And, and that’s easy. They’re like, you know, my kids and Cade and my dog and my friends and my job and my, like, there’s so many things. I can just go down the list right there after the dog. Oh, you think you’re his friend? Oh, you just jumping to conclusions all over the place here, making all the, you know, what they say about assumptions, Rob.

Wow. Uh, It’s, it, it’s relatively easy to be grateful for the things that are showing up and that you’re really happy about. But I find that the power where gratitude is really powerful is when I can access it and be grateful for the tough shit that’s landing on my doorstep. Yeah. Um, this is where you begin to shift your focus, uh, from, uh, uh, I’m grateful this is happening.

I, I’m grateful that I get to navigate through this. Conflict through this challenge, through this circumstance. Um, and, and that’s a cism, she talks about the get to mindset, right? I get to versus I have to, uh, the, the other one for me is, uh, that this is not happening to me. I’m grateful that this is happening.

Whatever this ne this tough challenge is, whether it be uncertainty or challenge or trial, um, uh, I’m grateful that this is, this is not happening to me. This is happen. For me, this is literally being set up as an opportunity for me to grow, to learn, to become more. Well, think of the shift in focus. Think of that.

It’s an invitation. It’s an invitation. Again, it’s this whole notion of I can, I can bemoan my circumstance. Right. I, I can bitch and complain about the conflict that I’m in or the difficulty that I’m in, and I, I’ve spent so much time over the years in that, in that state, uh, or I can say, what, what’s the opportunity here?

Uh, and I’m grateful that there’s something is trying to happen and I get to be part of that. Uh, again, gratitude unlocks perspectives that are typically buried, uh, and, and. Evident, at least on the surface, especially when we talk about, again, it’s easy to be grateful. The good stuff is there. That’s, that’s kind of common.

Um, but uh, although it’s often how often aren’t people, well, the common stuff we often take for granted That’s right. Is stop being grateful for. So it’s, it’s, it’s very good to remind ourselves how grateful we are for the stuff that, that is common and, and, and we, we really appreciate. Uh, but the real power is gratitude.

In tribulation, gratitude in trouble, gratitude in the hard times. That’s where it can be transformative. Yeah. Yeah. I bec and I really do appreciate that. Uh, CISM, um, I have taken, and you’ve shared the, uh, a number of times that Kate. You know where that’s come from, and I so much appreciate it and I’ve shared it with clients now, and it’s, it’s, it’s something that I certainly do in my own life.

It, it is changing Langu Lang. It’s a, how many times do we keep going back to the language matters? And it’s so important, uh, in this, and, and Wendy, right now, she’s doing it. The, the, the, the Grateful Journal. She, she did it for years. And, you know, listening to these talks, On the cruise ship has reminded her, and I see her every night.

It’s one of the last things she does is she’s got her journal out and she reflects on her day, the things she’s grateful for, what she’s grateful for, uh, in the future. It’s so, uh, important to build into our habit, uh, uh, the, the expressing or, or reflecting on the things we are grateful for. G whether they’re out of good si uh, situations or bad situations.

Yeah. Thoughts. Uh, maybe just a final thought, which is really just Yvonne, very grateful for you. Yep. Yeah. Uh, thrilled for you. Excited for you, but very grateful that you’ve got us focused on this. Yeah. Uh, and I think you’re helping other people focus on it as well. Yeah. Yeah, we are grateful for you, Yvonne.

We’re grateful for all of you that, um, uh, li you know, choose to listen to the podcast, to each and every one of these episodes, and, uh, take the time to add your comments and your thoughts. Uh, and we do really appreciate it and we encourage you to continue to do that. Um, uh, we are going to do many more of these kind of mini.

Episodes with topics as well as, like I say, we’ve got a few questions that have come in that I think will fill, uh, enough time for us to have, uh, a, a strong episode just around some of those, as well as some of the other, uh, uh, questions that might come up. So if you’ve got, uh, questions and comments, leave, uh, them, uh, On the episode, put them in there so that we’re able to respond.

Uh, we can’t do every one of them. Uh, some of them we may respond back to you just with an email. Uh, we will reply this. I have, uh, I can promise and give you as a guarantee. If you leave a comment, we will respond to it. Uh, and we will make sure that, uh, we appreciate those comments and those, uh, those questions and all.

Uh, listen, if you have an opportunity, one of the things that we would encourage you to do is to take this episode. If you know somebody, uh, in your life who has been dealing with uncertainty, uh, maybe is talking about and is trying to figure out how they can be more grateful, uh, in their day-to-day life.

Maybe share this episode with them and, and let them know. Maybe put a personal note as to, as to some of the lessons that you’ve learned around gratitude and around facing un uncertainty in your life. That would be a great help for us as well, and I know it would be a help for those that you share it with.

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So take a visit when, uh, I, if you hear of a book or a resource or a tool or a link that we mentioned, it’ll be in there. So go take a look. All of that’s there for you. Until next time, thank you again for listening in on the, uh, this episode and to our podcast. On behalf of these guys, Truly appreciate, uh, the fact that you are on this journey with us, and we’ll see you next time.