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So many people are living in a world of stress and overwhelm. In this episode, the guys share their views on what causes stress, the effect it has on us, and some ways we can start to change our relationship with stress.

There are some great resources from this episode including books to read, reflection questions to help you navigate stress more effectively, and a picture of the world’s cutest sheep! 


You can watch the videos of all of the Living Richly Podcast episodes on the Living Richly YouTube Channel.

Show Notes for Episode 18

Three great books came up in this episode — you don’t have to read them all!! But if one piques your interest, they’re all worth a look!

A great person to follow on Instagram is Dr. Susanne Wolf at MyMentalHealthSpace who shares fantastic resources that you may find useful. Worth giving her a follow.

Eric also had a number of reflection questions for your to think about as well:

  • What are the things that cause me to feel overwhelmed?
  • What self-care activities help me most when I feel stressed?
  • Have I been saying “Yes” to too many things that don’t align with my values and priorities?
  • How can I focus on that I can control?
  • How can I practice gratitude more in my daily life?
  • What are some patterns in my thinking or behavior that contribute to my feelings of being overwhelmed?

Eric also made reference to a document that he’s created called What to do When Triggered that you may find useful.

Any last but not least, here is the first lamb born on Trefor’s farm. Her name is Lilly.

lamb, Leystone Farms

Episode 18: Stress and Overwhelm

There are a lot of people who are turning normal day-to-day things into catastrophes and feeling like they’re in a living hell day-in, day-out, when in fact that’s not what’s entirely happening.      

Rob Dale, Eric Deschamps, Trefor Munn-Venn

Hi, and welcome to the Living Richly Podcast. My name is Rob Dale, and I am. My incredibly wonderful, amazing friends, uh, Eric Dechamps and Trefor Munn-Venn, and yes, you’re and, um, we’ve been talking about community last week and so I thought I would just try to, you know, build into these. We think you’re pretty amazing too. Oh, thank you.

That’s so nice. It’s, uh, it’s wonderful to feel. Given time, I, I also might have things to say. Okay. We’ve, uh, really want to thank you for being part of this journey with us. In spite of all this, uh, in spite of all this, the fact that many of you continue to come back week after all three of you week after week is, uh, pretty incredible.

No. You know, it’s, it is exciting and I’ve been sharing this, celebrating the success and the wins. Yeah. Uh, it is incredible just how many people are tuning in. Uh, this has been resonating. So many and, uh, and there have been thousands of downloads and all kinds of social media activity. We are so grateful for all of you, uh, because you never know where it’s gonna go.

Yeah. And you’ve decided to come with us. So thank you. The, the fact that we have survived 18 episodes. Uh, 18. No. Only 17. Right? That’s true. , we don’t know. We dunno about today. Today’s gonna, we dunno if we’ll make it through this one. . Um, today’s still anything could happen. Who knows? We’ve had lots of conversations.

We have, we’ve, we’ve covered a lot of topics in the Living Richly model, the four by four model, as we call it. Mm-hmm. , uh, and we’ve looked at a whole bunch of different elements and. Last couple of weeks, uh, we’ve been talking about community, we’ve been talking about rituals, and then we got into a conversation around community.

Uh, we recognize, and we’ve, we hear this from some, uh, as they, they share just their, as many of you have been sharing your thoughts, uh, online, sending us direct messages or sending us, uh, uh, public messages in the, in the, uh, different, uh, forums that, uh, we have, uh, we are hearing from some, and we know this is the case for many people right now in society.

Uh, Overwhelming the sense of being overwhelmed, uh, this sense of, uh, again, stress and this, this sense of there’s just so much to do in so few hours to do it, and you’re like overwhelmed with overwhelm and stressed with stress. It, yeah. Right. It’s just, it, it, it is. And, and maybe that’s you and, and maybe you’ve tuned in.

This is your kind of little bit of time for yourself where you’re taking in and listening to, uh, this podcast and to this episode. But when it comes to the bigger picture of just trying to figure all this out, it just seems overwhelming. And so we thought it’d be great to have a conversation around stress, around this notion of being overwhelmed and what does that mean?

What does that look like? Uh, how do we solve it? Uh, at the end of the episode, Trevor is going to provide. Formula that will guarantee that you’ll never feel stress again, and he will be very dogmatic about it. It’s going to be awesome. This the way that you deal with her. You have the answer. He has the Alta answer.

This is going to make UST millions. No. Yeah, it’s no. Oh, nevermind. That’s what’s in the show notes. That’s gonna be . Click here. Where you . Wait, I’m on the wrong, I’m on the wrong episode too. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, and so, no, this is just stressing me out. We’re gonna have a conversation around this. So, uh, guys, maybe let’s just open up with.

what is stress? What is this sense of old me? What are you feeling stressed? Are you feeling overwhelmed? In, in, uh, what, what, let’s just unpack this at be at the beginning. What, introduce to me this concept of what does it mean to be overwhelmed, to be stressed? Well, I, well, I mean before I even go there, which happy tube, but this notion of like how often you ask somebody how they’re doing and the response is, Well, we’ve talked about the I’m fine when they’re not, which is, you know, kind of a, a again, it’s almost the question of how are you is not really a question.

It’s more like a, uh, it is just something we do and we respond automatically without even thinking. Um, but a common response I certainly hear back, and I think you guys do too, is, uh, I’m busy, I’m stressed. Um, which is an interesting. a way to respond, right? Like I told clients now when they, when they tell me I’m busy, I hear that it’s, it’s like the most common response I hear, uh, which whe whether they say I’m busy or I’m stressed, it’s almost like they’re synonymous and I don’t let them get a, get away with it.

I’m like, no. Well, okay, so that’s a state right now that you’re experiencing, but how are you in that? Uh, right, the, so I dunno if you guys experience the same thing. For sure. For sure. Yeah. The, the stress is, Uh, it’s an emotion people are prepared to share when you do ask them how they are, but it is so linked to busy and it’s like, I don’t know, busy.

It’s like, I like busy. To me it’s like busy doing what Exactly. That really matters. That really matters. Being busy. I don’t mind being busy. I like that. Um, I also don’t mind being stressed. , right? But we have to unpack what stress is as well, because I think a lot of people mean something quite different, and there’s real variation within when you start talking about stress, it’s not one thing, right?

Feeling stressed or having the experience or the emotion of stress is not the same as I am overwhelmed and dying under a massive amount of work and obligations and childcare and a host other things. The both will produce a feeling of stress, but not all. Stress is bad. Stress. Right. And, and I, I worry when we paint with too broad a brush and I, and actually aren’t quite specific enough, but when people play.

Or or mention stress as their state is to also understand what they mean in terms of like what’s actually happening and what’s going on in their head. What is it they’re telling themselves about what’s happening too? Cuz you can produce that same emotion with your thoughts where it’s actually not about your circumstance.

And so it’s really important to be able to see clearly like. We, we have to accurately describe reality as it is, and that’s where our thoughts tend to go off on its own. Like people say, this is catastrophic. I’m like, no. Sad. And it’s require some work, but hardly a catastrophe, right? So, so most stress is a combination of both real.

Pressure and demands that are showing up in real time that perhaps you have zero control over or little control over and how you’re responding to it, how you choose to perceive it. Very rarely is it just one or the other. Uh, so the last thing we want people to hear, like. I, I tell my clients all the time, a lot of the stress and the suffering we experience is self-generated.

We are creating it, uh, by how we’re choosing to see it, how we’re choosing to, to, to frame it, how we’re choosing to interpret it doesn’t mean all of it is, but there’s often a significant measure of the overwhelm and the stress that we’re experiencing. It’s because we’ve jumped to a worst case scenario type mindset or a, a victim mindset or, uh, this is impossible.

I can’t get through this. Or it’s catastrophic. We, we jump to these unhealthy mindsets that actually generate more pain than the original activating event. Uh, right. It’s again, back to the Dalai. Uh, pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. And whoever said this next one, uh, I, I wish I could find it, but suffering is what I feel about what I feel.

Uh, so I think there’s this combination of real life stuff that’s showing up that you have no control over that’s causing stress, and those are very real, very present, um, uh, imminent things that you need to process and work through. And then there’s this, this aspect of it. What am I creating? What construct am I creating, perhaps, um, that is not serving me well and making that stress overwhelm, like amplifying it to the 10th degree because of the way I’m choosing to look at.

It’s interesting, uh, uh, in the timeline of when this. Uh, episode is being recorded. It’s being recorded, uh, three days before I leave on a two week vacation. And I just got back from a week long vacation. You just got back from a week long, hence the 10. I’ll be working. You’ll be working the whole time. Uh, I’ll be, be trying to work this week.

The episode will come out, uh, I believe right after I get back and, and kind of the timeline of. But it’s interest as I tell people that, well, hopefully you’ll be feeling better. Uh, uh, uh, people will be telling me that I’ll be heading out on a couple of weeks of vacation. One of the things that they will say is, oh, you’re gonna need the first three or four days just to decompress.

Just to, just to kind of release all that stress. And, and I’m like, no, no, no. I’ll be. I’ll be, uh, I’ll be flying at the airport . Right. Even if, you know, without be able to predict night before for me the night before, right? Like, it’s like, no, no, I’ll be, uh, I don’t need three days to decompress from stress, uh, because it doesn’t have that hole to that control.

Did it ever though, was there ever a time Absolutely, absolutely. There was so, and cuz I would say the same thing. I’m, uh, there, there was a time. Where a week long vacation never seemed long enough because it took me most of that time just to start to unwind and then it was already time to come home.

Yeah. Um, that is no longer the case. Uh, and I’m able to turn off, uh, right as soon soon and, and go into that relax mode right away. What changed that for you from it? It, I need several days just to start decompressing, to now know I’m good as soon as. Because that’s an interesting, uh, an interesting shift.

Well, I explained that in the first 17 episodes of the Richley podcast. Uh, could you do it more succinctly, , I dunno, if ever I know folks listening have time to go through all 17 episodes for the answer. Can you give us the Cole’s notes version? Yeah, well, you know, the, the, the episode on feelings, identifying, naming, uh, being able to recognize what it is.

I am not, I am. the feeling, right? So if I’m feeling stressed, that’s different than I am stressed. Uh, and it’s being able to, then that’s a big one. It’s being able to understand, oh, this is something I’m feeling. Am I creating this myself? So what are, what are the scripts that are going through my mind in that moment?

Being able to all of the, having that conversation to recognize. what’s happening and then being able to identify and, okay, is this something I need to put energy into? Not put ener energy into. All of those have allowed me to be. It really is this, this sense of, uh, one of the most powerful books that I’ve read recently was a book that the two of you recommended that actually we, we all had it around the same, the Untethered Soul.

Mm-hmm. , and we’ve mentioned it on the, on, uh, on episodes before, but The Untethered Soul, great book. And I remember the first time I read it, I didn’t think so. I, the first time I, as I was reading through it, but your soul was still tethered down Robin. It was so tethered. It was, I was such a te song. Now you’re like a butterfly.

I, I was and Trevor doesn’t like butterflies. You do. You hate me. Uh, you have to listen to a previous episode. All the backstory is a strong word, . Again, as I said, I unpacked this over 17 episodes. , uh, no the, but there is that sense of, um, when I first read tethered, when I was reading it, I was about a quarter of the way through it.

This is stupid. Put it down. I don’t have time for this. And then we’re sitting around dinner and you guys get talking about how much it, ah, just so affected. And I thought, well if the two guys that I respect more than anybody, if, if this impacted them, I need to go back and read this with a more open, open mind.

And that’s when it was like, fuck. And this whole notion of. . Oh, that’s interesting. Mm. With the right. Letting that energy flow through. And that’s what stress is. It’s, it’s the, the feeling, it’s the energy. And as I let that flow through and, and so it’s very rare that I find myself, I I’m often in stressful moments.

Sure, yeah. Right. There’s very rare that I feel stress, but, but I love what you said a moment ago. Uh, well, several moments ago. You loved what I said, but it was all good. But No, but you said it early on in what you were, were talking about, you said, so I have this conversation, but it almost sounds like conversation with who you’re having the conversation with yourself.

Yes. And uh, going back to the mindset stuff we’ve been talking about is we are talking to ourselves. All the time, the time everybody, whether you talk to yourself out loud, whether it’s an internal dialogue where you’re, you’re having this conversation in your head, uh, people always think I must be crazy.

I’m talking to myself. No, this is very normal. Uh, it’s actually quite normal. One of the things we need to normalize is that self-talk is very normal, actually healthy. If channeled properly. Yes. Um, and, and, uh, I remember, you know, the, this, uh, football coach talking to his team and he said, you’re talking to yourselves all the time.

Why not make it more positive and for you the big shift? I, I, I just love it. The, the big shift was, wait a minute. What’s really happening? What am I feeling? What am I experiencing? Is how I’m interpreting this serving me or not? Is it accurate or not? And this ability to be more disciplined in our thinking, which, you know, takes work, it takes practice.

It’s like, uh, going back to practice, right? Like, it’s like a muscle. If you haven’t been flexing it much at first, it’s, it’s harder work. But the more we start to take control of those mental faculties and control may be too strong a word there, but you get what I’m saying, where we. Being more active in our thinking, right?

Uh, as opposed to passive. Um, uh, we, this, this notion of stress being amplified because of what we’re meaning we’re attaching to the activating event, which may or may not be true. And, uh, think of, uh, the worst case scenario, thinking people jumping to conclusions and going to this worst case scenario. Uh, how often we actually do that and when we’re in that mode, when we’re allowing our.

Just to go there cuz we are allowing, it’s a choice. Um, right. There’s, there’s no victim here. Like it’s, we are truly just allowing our mind and our thinking to dwell on the worst possible outcome. And perhaps because we’ve trained our minds to do that. And there is the built-in, uh, fight or flight mechanism that we have to overcome that’s been kind of forming for like millions of years.

So you track, I, I remember, uh, uh, uh, just read recently, uh, where, uh, the author is Dan Siegel in his book Mine Site. Great, great book. I highly, highly. Highly recommend. It’s a bit heavy on the front end because he talks about how the brain works and he’s, uh, like he’s gonna, but, but it’s gonna give you an understanding.

And then he unpacks more practically later on in the book. Uh, but he talks about like making your inner, uh, uh, that the defense mechanism, your friend, that don’t try to fight it, don’t try to shut it down. It’s been, it’s been forming again for millions of years. It’s more about how to harness it. So when those.

Thoughts come up of I’m in crisis, or this is catastrophic, or I better get the hell outta Dodge, or I better stand up and fight. Like whatever the res initial response is is. Thank you, . Thank you. Early warning detection system. . Uh, alright. Good job. You’re doing what you’re programmed to do, but you’re actually not needed in this situation.

Thanks for flagging. But this is not catastrophic. This is not the end of the world. This is that dialogue, that internal dialogue where we are. It doesn’t change the external activating event, which may be very real. Right. Like there may be some pressure being applied by outside forces that is causing stress and anxiety, right?

The stress and anxiety are, they kind of go together, , right? It’s hard to have one and not the other. Um, uh, but you’re able to navigate better cuz you’re not attaching false meaning to the activating event that is creating further stress, further suffering. I, I, Yeah, yeah. We, we kind of get held hostage to the old brain and, and don’t use our new fancy brain, or do we hold ourselves hostage or we hold ourselves

I, I, I like to get it’s a little bit the benefit of the doubt and say, oh, maybe they just don’t know how, like they, they haven’t done, or, I’m not doing it right because the, you know, it’s on a bit of a hair trigger. It really is. And that’s how the species survived, right? The saber two tiger. All that layer, like any kind of danger, like, let’s run, let’s, let’s, let’s respond.

Um, but our all, all our fancy thinging showed up a lot later and, and it’s, it’s real new. It’s real new. And so for us to be able to say, okay, what am I gonna do with this thing? To, to, to choose which set of thinking are we going to embrace and not just go with whatever shows up first. , right? Because what shows up first is often inaccurate.

It’s not, or at the very least, it’s incomplete. It’s not the whole story, it’s not the whole picture. So to base our response on that initial scan, uh, is often gonna lead you into trouble. Yeah. So I, you know, I may get in trouble for this, but the, uh, you’re excited. I’m excited. I see Trevor get in trouble.

The modern, uh, folks get ready to put comments directly, Trevor. On all our social media platforms, , the the modern institutional equivalent, equivalent to the amygdala is Environment Canada. Where, um, where I love your app, by the way. The um, but don’t play now, don’t play nice. However, , I get a warning when it’s gonna go to minus five degrees Celsius in Canada in the winter.

I’m like, that’s steady state and you’re sending me. Danger warning, alert. Right. And, and, and you know, three days from now we may have precipitation and I’m like, okay, thank you. But however, to say, listen, it’s cold in winter, turning this normal, turning up, the volume on it is out of alignment with. Our expectations.

Right? You both know Sophie, the CEO of a, a CEO of a great law firm, and she posted recently about this and it was all around this weather thing to say every, it seems like every storm now or every potential, uh, uh, front that moves in is amped up. Like this is gonna be the storm watch the storm watch and it’s gonna be the storm to end all storm.

And it’s very rarely is it ever even near what’s being suggested, but it’s causing. A, that fight or flight and actually a a, we, we say fight or flight, but the actual full range is fight flight. Faint. Right. And there’s a, there’s another one that plays out, which is Fawn, right? Well, faint and faw. It’s kinda like falling down.

Yeah. Sort of like just collapsing under the pressure or freezing like a deer in headlights. Uh, we often just talk about fight or flight, but it’s actually incorrect. That’s, that’s like half. The equation when shit shows up. We have, we typically respond one of those four ways, uh, which is, again, triggered by that early warning detection system.

The adilla right at the base of the spine, um, uh, right back here. Right. Uh, if, if I went with every warning environment Canada sent me, I’d be, I would live in terror that, oh my God, it’s cold here all the time. I’m like, Yeah, it’s Canada. Welcome aboard. Made it the, uh, oh, 10 centimeters of snow. Like we haven’t seen that before.

right. You know, so it’s, it’s taking, I wish we didn’t Jamaicas looking really good. Yeah. Taking back, taking these things that are normal and catastrophizing them. Right, right. Where we just go. Yep. It’s cold today. And I, and I like the cold one because it’s not even like it’s an event. It’s supposed to be cold.

In winter in Canada, like if anyone goes, it was below zero, I’m. Really like, yeah, that’s T-shirt weather. That’s short weather still. Right? The right. And yet we’re, we’re worried about it. And so the amygdala wants to do that. It want, and we need to gauge it and go, oh, this is just normal. Right. And even, you know, I’ll have business clients where, you know, on some days they’ll go, oh listen, it’s terrible, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And this person just quit. I’m like, okay. Yeah. And they’re like, you don’t seem like you’re reacting. I’m like, that’s the most boring business problem ever. Like some, someone left. Someone left. Are you gonna replace someone HR like this? . Truly the most boring business question problem ever. Like, yes, it’s a problem, but we, we all need to replace people in our organizations on a regular basis.

Making it more than it is, turns it into something it’s not. Mm-hmm. A and I think that’s where we go off the rails. And I think this is also where people will, will really, really start to, and this is where our thinking is working against us, describing things. Not as they are. And so then we’re creating, creating a false reality in living as if it’s true and going, and I don’t like it.

I’m like, you made it up. The, the, it’s the, this notion of, uh, uh, Albert Ellis talked about the fact that one of the reasons we drive ourselves make ourselves crazy. And I’m gonna use that word deliberately. He actually uses that word. Uh, now his stuff is back from the fifties. We might, you were allowed to say crazy.

You were allowed to say crazy back then. It wasn’t offensive. We’re just quoting Ellis. He said, the way that we make ourselves miserable, like we, we literally make ourselves miserable, is we have these, these distortions about how life. Actually shows up and he said one of our problems is we have too low a, uh, tolerance for frustration when life doesn’t work out the way that we want it to.

So our frustration tolerance is too low. And another author would say, uh, Dan Siegel would say, of Mine Sight would say that our reiv is too high. So part of the work I think, of managing stress and overwhelm, uh, is this work of increas. Our tolerance for frustration and lowering our reactivity. Yeah. To when stuff shows up on our door.

And, uh, there’s a great, um, uh, account I follow on Instagram called My Mental Health Space from here in Ottawa. She’s a psychologist here in Ottawa, actually, prob probably great to have on our show. She’s really, really good. And she, she talks about relationships, think of the stress and overwhelm we feel in relationships.

Like if there’s an area we often feel stressed out, it’s in. Relationships with our significant other relationship with our kids, relationship with friends, the people that we care for the most. We talked about community in our last, uh, episode, and we talked about , how it, it’s in community that we probably received the greatest wounds, where we’ve been hurt the most.

Has been in community, and where are we gonna find our greatest healing in community? Off alone, in our own minds, alone in our own mind. , no rocking back and forth. No . Nope. Wrong answer. Sucking our answer on a secluded island somewhere. But it’s gonna be in community, we find. But she talks about, we talk about, you talk about normalizing things like how they were.

uh, uh, sensationalizing weather, right? And creating, and, and she talks about things to normalize in our relationships may include being disappointed in each other, , having fears, doubts, and feeling frustrated, making mistakes, taking responsibility, having disagreements, right? Uh, having difficult times like these are, and she goes on and on and on.

But when I read it, I was like, it’s so good, because often we treat these things as though it’s the end of the world. I had a disagreement with. A significant other, we must be done. Uh, it must be over. Right. And we hyper sensationalize them in our own minds. And often that’s because of past programming family of origin.

Right, right. Subconscious. We, we talked about in the mindset episode that 95% on average of what we do is. Program. Yeah. We’re not choosing our thinking, we’re not choosing our beliefs. We’re just going with the automatic pilot. Um, and, and I, I think life is really about like, uh, uh, uh, when we talk about living richly, it’s about breaking, uh, interrupting.

It’s right. . Hey, I like you Eric. What’s, no, I interrupting you. Really interrupted me. Interrupting. Interrupting me, but Right, right. Interrupting the automatic pilot more often. . That was great. Good. That was so good. That was like a living illustration. I. But I didn’t know what to do with him. , that’s what’s supposed to happen.

Exactly. You’re right. , right? Like we’re living in our here like right Jessi. You’re welcome Ninja. He’s something. But like, let’s use, you used autopilot. So’s great. Let’s use this example. The, because some people say no, it really is stressful. I might, it might be. You have to test it though, because stress is subjective.

So, and the, the example I like is, uh, going on a. ride on an airplane. Mm-hmm. For some people, it’s the greatest experience of their life. I’m going on a plane, like kids, right? They’re like, I gotta see all this stuff. Like, incredible. Some people are bored as anything. Like, I’m on 10 flights a week, I just don’t care.

I just want to get where I’m going. And some people are petrified. Yeah, same flight. Same flight, same stimuli, same experience. Same. Same. But they’re, they say, right, they’re, they’re, they’ve got the, objectively, it’s all the same. Subjectively, it’s totally diverse based on how they’re approaching it. And so when we feel stressed, part of what we need to do is bring our fancy brain to the table and double check and go, am I in danger?

Is this a crisis? Is this inconvenient? Maybe. Maybe if it’s a hiring one kind of. Well, this is inconvenient. I had a lot of things to get done. We’re gonna have to rework how we’re going to do that. I’m gonna have to have some conversations with, some people might need to change some timelines. I dunno if this is gonna cost us money or save us money, let’s take a look.

But those are just things you do in business. None of those, I didn’t hear any crises in there or catastrophes. Right, right. And so to be able to really look at our reality and say, okay, what is this really? Because, and I’ll, I’m gonna do this very, very carefully. I. . There are a lot of people who are turning normal day-to-day things into catastrophes and feeling like they’re in a living hell day in day out, when in fact that’s not entirely what’s happening now to anybody who’s agreed.

In a living hell with terrible things really happening. I am with you. We are with you. I’m not talking to you, but we do need to check and kind of go actually, if that’s just your job as doing those things and getting those things done and no one is berating you or, and you’re not in a toxic environment, you just need to do some stuff, then you need to re-examine and find a new relationship with it, uh, in a, in a new way.

Find something else to something else. And, and I know that that may, but if it’s a mindset pattern, yes. The change may not fix that, right? No. Because if you like, that’s right. Yeah. I’m not suggesting just a geographical cure, right? Because , what you run from, you keep running the guy who just came from Jamaica.

Well, that, to go back, I wanna go back to immediately Yes. But this notion, it’s not about a geographical cure because what you run away from keep, you’ll keep running into, like, uh, we talked about in the last episode in community. If you, if, if, if a certain kind of person or character keeps showing up in your story, it’s probably cuz the universe is trying to draw attention to something.

And if you don’t deal with that, , the universe will just keep casting someone in a, that same role. Yeah. Uh, maybe a different person, but to kind of bring that out in you. So I’m not suggesting we avoid it, but if, if you’re in a, in a job that truly, or a situation or context where truly you’re unhappy in the, it’s not healthy for you, make a change.

Right. Make a change. And I know that may sound, I don’t want that to sound heartless or lacking in compassion, but we often, like, uh, how, how often have I said like, we’re never as stuck as we think we are. And that’s not to discount extreme circumstances where there’s real shit going down. I’m, I’m not Tom with that.

I just think a lot of the stuff that we feel stuck in or trapped in, or we feel we have no options, that actually we have far more options than we realize. Uh, but we’re telling ourselves a story, a narrative that makes every door look closed. I, one of my favorite quotes, uh, recently around this notion of, you know, when you’re talking about make a change, uh, and, uh, and I’m blanking on the, on the author of the quote, we’ll find, we’ll get it and we’ll make sure we put it in the show notes.

Uh, we trade short-term, uh, discomfort for long-term dis dysfunction. Right. And so we stay in dysfunction. We stay in all of this stuff because we’re not willing to make that short because, well, it’s to, to your point, if you’re not, if, if where you’re at isn’t working change, uh, oh, no, it’d be too uncomfortable.

It’d be too difficult and be like that. So we trade short-term discomfort for long-term dis dysfunction. Right. It’s so good. And, and being able to, to, to make that decision. I want to go back just for a second. I, I, I was about to jump in when I did interrupt. Uh oh. Feel free to interrupt me anytime. I’m not a.

But with that idea of interrupt, it was, I, I heard a, I was listening to another podcast, a competitor’s podcast recently. Uh, I was listening to, uh, Trevor, we need a new host. I was listening to, uh, I was listening to Ben. Hey, Hey, Steve. Are you looking for , Ben Berg’s podcast? Ben Bergron is one of my, uh, certainly his books have, have really resonated with you.

Bergeron, you speak of that. You, we love you, Ben. We love you. Uh, I’d love to have Ben, uh, on the, on the, uh, on the show. And I, uh, he, uh, sir Shameless asks absolutely to be on the show. His, his, uh, both his books are just have really spoken to me. He, he was talking about stress, uh, and, uh, the notion of, um, finding habits to fall asleep and he was struggling with falling asleep at night and all the stuff going on in his mind.

And, uh, many people can relate to insomnia. I struggled with insomnia for a lot of years. I still do from time to time. Uh, but a lot of my insomnia would be, I would wake up and then my mind would get going, right? Start thinking about stuff. And he began to use this ritual. And I do this, and I cannot believe how ridiculously simple this is and how effective it works is that when his mind starts going into a ta, whatever it is, tailspin, tailspin, he just goes, Hey brain, that’s a really interesting topic, but we’re not thinking about that right now.

It’s, it’s all he says, right? That why No, he’s, it’s something else that he said, but that’s what I’ve been saying. Yeah. Hey, bran, we’re not gonna think about, we’re not gonna talk about that right now. But that’s, that’s that, that it’s, it’s the talking, it goes back to, it’s that notion of separating yourself and talking.

You are not your thoughts, right? You are not your feelings. You’re the one thinking the thoughts. You’re the one experiencing the feelings. So you can actually shift them. Topics that in the past kept me up. I tried to interrupt you. Topics that, uh, in the past kept me up for hours. like that. It’s so good, brother.

Yeah. Hey, brain. We’re not talking about that right now. And the brain. Oh, okay. Yeah. The brain’s very literal brain is like, oh, it’ll do what you tell it to. Right. Which is amazing. We just often surrender to it and, and let it run wild instead of tell it what to do. Yeah. So I, and so I, I, I share that to say, when you’re feeling that stress, all of a sudden you’re overwhelmed with all these.

It’s a great habit to get into, Hey, hey, we’re not gonna talk about that right now. The brain works based on questions. Yeah. Right. So you just gave it a different question or an instruction. The the other one I love is if you say, uh, why am I so stupid? Your brain will go cuz of this and this. Find all the evidence.

Right, right. Yeah. Where if you say, how am I gonna fix that? The brain go, you could do this and this, and this and this. It’s just gonna answer what you ask it, right? So you just need to change the instructions, your brain. So in many ways, your brain, it’s like chat, j p t. Allow me for a second. Well, I think that’s the whole point of artificial intelligence.

The prompts of the prompts, the prompts you give, it determines the quality of the answer. The outcome, right? So if you ask very basic stuff, you’re gonna get very basic answers. If you learn how to ask to better prompts or right, you can, you can get a better result. So I think it’s the same with if you don’t ask it anything, it’ll just run wild, right?

It’ll go wherever it wants. Right? And so I think this is where we’ve got control and we’ve got some choice. We’ve got some agency in this, the. Right. You think about stress, stress is, again, it’s a, it’s an, it’s a feeling, it’s an emotion. The, we feel the body respond and we go, oh, I feel stress because it’s distress so well, it can be, so there there is stress and distress, right?

There are actually, there are different things, right? Talk to, so stress is, stress is that emotion that kicks in when you kind of go, okay, I gotta bring my game. Right. It increases our focus. Uh, it, it, uh, helps us be more attentive of what’s going on. It makes us more productive, right? Stress is like, okay, I need to get this done.

I need to solve this. I need to deal with this. distresses, we’re in trouble. Right? Right. That, that’s where we kind of go from discomfort to safety issues. Right. So in in one, in a very simplistic way, there’s positive stress or what we call good stress and there’s bad stress. Absolutely. Good stress is it’s game on.

I’m ready. It’s like, all right, I gotta do this thing. So, you know, for how many people, when they step onto a stage to public speak, we know lots of people don’t like it, but when you do, you’ve got lots of feelings and there’s some stress. All of that is about dialing up your body for game on. We’re gonna do this, we, and, uh, we’re gonna bring your focus and attention and drive and, and all of that.

It’s, it’s a heightened state now. We don’t wanna stay in it all the time. Right. Because that’s the other part. Right. But if we believe everything around us is, is stress and stress equals. Bad cuz here’s what I, so this is my personal theory. Kind of mid nineties, lots of research starts to come out about the negative impacts of the chemical changes on our body with sustained stress.

And so the message was stress bad. . It’s like, no. Stress, stress, stress is stress. It’s not. It’s not stress, bad stress, it just is. If we’re in it all the time, chronic stress, they’re like, okay, yes, we need to, we do need to address that. But what happened was, I think people attach so strongly that stress is bad, that anytime something stressful shows up, even when it should be stress.

Right. It is very reasonably stressful. They go dark, they just collapse. Yeah. We, they’re, I can’t, is too stressful. We over-rotated, right? Yeah. We over-rotated. And yet the, the research does show that good stress or bad. The, the, the, the, the cost to your, your system is the same, the body. Right. Although the emotion behind it may be very different.

Right. So, so a stressful situation. Brings your A, helps you bring your A game and you, you’re more focused and you’re more productive and you’re more on point. Like that may feel great in that moment. Your body though, doesn’t know the difference, right? Even though the emotional response between that and negative stress be very different, you are still paying.

A price in your body. And this is where, uh, uh, we talk about, uh, this, uh, this notion of, think of in the, the realm of finance, right? Uh, most financial planners think of, think of, uh, consumer debt being at an all time high and it just keeps getting worse, right? Mm-hmm. , what does that tell us? People living beyond their means.

People are spending far more than they’re making, right? And so consumer debt just keeps climbing, climbing, climbing, climbing. And they keep, you know, when they renegotiate their mortgage, they just dump all that debt back in their mortgage, right? And they, uh, they never get clear of it. Uh, so financial planners would tell you, you need to live more within your means and, and put some money aside to save for some of the important stuff to you that, that you want to do.

Uh, not just later in life. I’m not a fan of just putting it all away for another day, like live now and prepare for the future. But I think, uh, many of us from a stress perspective are living beyond our means. We are, we are overinvest, like we are, sorry, we are overspending in terms of our commitments. Uh, are, are the promises we make to ourselves and others and the things that we hold ourselves to and the commitments that we make, again, often prompted by all kinds of fear, guilt, and shame.

The musts and the have tos and the shoulds. And so we’re overspending and we’re underinvesting in things like self-care and filling our cup and, uh, you know, connecting to source and making sure that we’re good. Yeah. Uh, so again, uh, uh, you, you may be in a job that has lots of great stress that causes you to perform really, really well.

Message here is, Good. But you can only do that so long before your system starts to say, Uhuh. Like, I can’t run at it. It, it’s the, the notion of, um, uh, take a race car, uh, take a, like, think of the Indy 500, which is the hallmark, right? Like we all remember watching the Indy 500, uh, formula One. Right? Formula One.

Um, and these cars go like 200 miles per hour. Like it’s not Formula One. It’s a formula. Formula. No. Nascar, no, no, not nascar. You’re talking about Daytona 500? No, no. In Indy 500. Indy 500. Grand Prairie. Thank you. Grand Prix. Yeah. Daytona was yesterday. Yes. Was it? Yeah. Well, these vehicles, , whichever, whichever one.

I’m getting it all wrong. Thank, thank you for our Thank you, Steve. Our sports guy is giving us the, the, the what’s what here, Indy 500. We’d like you to be on the show. . All these vehicles are designed to go at incredible speeds, right? And yet at the end of the race, in most cases, the engine is done. Right.

The engine is done. They have pushed it to its limits and they either strip it down or rebuild it or they have to put a new engine. It’s why it’s such an exp part of why it’s such an expensive sport and you need massive sponsors for it cuz it’s so expensive to keep running that vehicle and having to replace the engine all the time.

So even a vehicle that’s built for it, right, can’t sustain it, can’t sustain it, uh, without massive overhaul, uh, and, and repair. And yet we push ourselves. Uh, we will push. I. Push myself like to no end. And it took, it took two burnouts, two and a half, uh, right before I finally started to pay attention right to that.

I can’t keep going like this. And yes, there was lots of bad stress in my life that I could point to, and these things are really, but there were, the good stress was costing me as well, I thought. Well, the, this bad shit’s going on, so I’m going to invest over here where I feel successful. I feel like I’m moving forward and it energizes me, but I wasn’t investing in the self-care.

And what I didn’t realize, I was burn, literally burning the candle on both ends. , right? So if we were to take that and say, well, let’s, let’s go to, I don’t know, stress’s Big Brother, anxiety. Oh. a and talk about that a little bit because that’s where, that’s where it’s, it’s, it’s takes a whole other form.

Right. And, and maybe, maybe I’ll ask you guys, is I, I’m hosting for a second, Rob. I don’t know what happened. Take out, lemme know how you do. Yep. The, um, oh, back over to Rob. Yeah. You’re Oh, that 2 42. Ooh. Jim Harrington talk about two 40. 2, 4, 2. The two in the 2, 4, 2 model. Let me take this one. Yeah. And someone take the four and somebody else take the, the last two, uh, the two in the two by two by four, by two is um, uh, two types of anxiety.

There is, uh, um, there’s acute anxiety and acute anxiety is actually not the one that’s the most to be most concerned about. Acute anxiety is when. really bad, goes down and it’s temporary and it, it, it, it does pull all the energy in your focus to deal with it. Wait, we had a kid, uh, one of our kids had a fender bender, right?

Acute anxiety. Right. Acute anxiety. It’s like episode driven. Right. But it’s, it’s li it’s time limited. Has everybody’s good. It has a start. It has an end. Yeah. It’s usually short-lived. Uh, it’s not off like, it doesn’t mean it’s short-lived within hours. Sometimes this’s days, sometimes a few weeks. But it’s short term.

It’s usually short term. It’s acute and then it’s gone. That’s not the stuff that is often the real. Cr, anxiety, the dark stuff, um, that we is chronic anxiety, fear, and anxiety that is constant. It’s consistent and it’s living in the background, uh, pulling at us and, and draining our reserves day by day by day.

So that’s the two and the two by, it’s shaping every experience we have. It’s the lens, every experience. Yeah. Yeah. And then the four. Is how it shows up, how it shows up for us. And, and it, it can show up, uh, one of the first ways for many of us it’s conflict. Yep. Uh, all of a sudden, you know, no, no, it’s not.

Yeah, exactly. Right, right, right. We get, we right. We, we, we fight. This is the fight, right. We get ready to fight, fight or flight. Right. So, uh, we fight and so we, we engage in conflict. As a way of trying to dissolve this, the, uh, uh, diffuse the, the anxiety that we’re feeling. Uh, for some it’s distance we can pull away.

Uh, that’s, this was certainly something that, that Yep, absolutely. Something that we experienced. I know that in telling my story, and I, you and your yours as well, all of ours really. That withdrawal of it’s my move pulling. It’s, it’s my move. It’s, it’s not a great move, but it’s a move. I was so good at it.

Uh, yeah. Yeah. We thought we were, and so skilled, but we will pull away from others as Uhhuh, uh, in the midst of that anxiety, and I have no idea what you’re doing. Some will will do this. Right? Uh, I don’t know any, but some will do that. Uh, there’s the under or overperforming. Oh, that was, that was my other move.

That my other move. He had two moves. I had two moves. Oh, nice. I’m versatile. Right. That’s good. And, and unpack that one. And, and while, and so the under and overperformance, sometimes we dive in more. And we really need to kind of just really kind of dive in and heavily just, which causes performance, which the other person to, which starts to underperform.

So I even more , I take over and I do their thing. I I respond for them, I react for them. I, I do their job or whatever. And now they’ve learned that the best thing to do in that is they don’t have to because you’re gonna take over. Cause you’re gonna take it. Uh, and, and there becomes this dynamic. Can’t relate to that.

Frustrated at all. Uh, or there’s, I don’t projection. Steve, can Steve, can you relate to that one? Sure. Yeah. , or there’s, or, or the fourth of these four kind of ways that this shows up is through projection where, uh, all of a sudden if there is anxiety, uh, that I have with Trevor, I will come to you and say, Hey, Eric, you know, like, , Trevor’s a house Trevor.

Like, you don’t, and I’m what I’m looking for Is that where you were going? Yeah. No, I wasn’t. But but we’re looking for that, uh, that, that compliance, that connection. So basically what we do in the projection create is we spread the anxiety, right? And now you deal, oh, now you’re feeling the anxiety towards.

Trevor, because I don’t want to resp, I don’t wanna respond. So, so the four we, we usually, and this is obviously with, mostly with the chronic, uh, anxiety that we see this played out. But we have these four different models. So two types of anxiety, four ways it shows up. Two effects. Two effects. One, , it makes us stupid

Oh God, I, I love that speak definitely makes me so, as the person experiencing anxiety, regardless of which of those four, uh, approaches I’m using, my capacity to process what’s going on around me accurately is compromised. The other fact is it makes us stupid , which is as groups and teams, as we start interacting with each other, we’re all compromised.

Right. And so we’re not making good decisions. Right? Right. We, we start making errors. We, we, uh, uh, we assign in negative intent where it doesn’t exist. We confuse people’s actions and reactions. We can’t gauge what’s actual and what’s imagined. We assume that. Scan of the situation without doing the homework and getting all the details, our initial scan is accurate.

Yep. Mm-hmm. , it’s so true, right? It’s so true. So, so, yes. Uh, let me, and I’ll give you an example. I’ll give you an acute stress example from yesterday. So yesterday, you guys know we, our, our very first lamb was born on the farm. Uh, lamb chops, lamb chops, . That’s what I was thinking. We’re not, I don’t think we’re allowed to eat that one.

The, um, really, Carrie made it clear, but the, uh, so, so our first lamb is, sorry, Carrie is warm. And, uh, and so I’m here and we, uh, and, and I just, I went outside really for no reason, but I just like, I don’t know. I need to go outside, so I go outside. And all of a sudden I hear this noise, I’m like, that’s not our regular sheep.

It’s this little, little tiny voice but high pitch. I’m like, so I go running up the hill to find out. I’m like, oh my God. So I call Carrie. And so I’m feeling acute stress cuz we’ve never dealt with, uh, a new lamb before, is our very first one. Uh, don’t feel really prepared for it yet. I don’t really take care of the animals anyway.

That’s a carry thing. But it’s like we’re all in this together. The, um, right as you ran inside and called for carry inside called for carry . That’s my, that’s my part of the together is I like, honey, there’s a thing you need to do. The, uh, so bad. That’s awesome. , that was so good. So it’s kind of true, but the, uh, Not in all things, just in the animal living things.

So, uh, elk Carey comes and, and we’re like, I don’t know, like, is it okay? Is it not okay? I, I don’t even know how to tell, but it was just like, man, like we have miniature sheep. And that thing was cute. Like, he was like, that’s cute. I saw the pictures. We’ll post it. We’ll throw a picture up. Yeah, the um, but this was stressful for me though, so I’m like, alright, Kara, do you have it?

Okay, good. , . Distance. Distance. And I withdraw. So I went to distance, right? that or dramatic underperformance, whatever. . It could be both the uh, and, and then I was, I was thinking about it for a few, but what was great was using this model, I was actually able to go, this is a cute stress. What am I doing? I’m distancing myself.

And I came back out cuz I’m like, no, this is what it needs. And. , right before that model, I would’ve had no clear way to navigate that. I might have felt a bit of a nagging inside me around, uh, maybe I should be there or not, or I don’t know, and I all this, but this actually gave me a model to kind of go, basically I had acute stress.

I went to distance and I was. , the, uh, but what I was also able to do was see it all and make a different choice and kind of go back out. So Good. The, uh, and, and so like all of us in these events, in these moments, whether it’s acute or chronic, we’ll we’ll play this out and when we see it, we can then choose a different kind of path.

It’s, it’s like where you were talking about, I see the thought. I see the feeling. Oh, that’s interesting. Right. It’s the same. I see my anxiety showing up. Yeah. I see the pattern playing itself out. Okay. How do I want to, I can either just go on automatic pilot and do what I’ve done traditionally speaking.

Yep. Or I can that moment choose a different way. And if in that moment I go into automatic pilot, okay, I’ll recognize it and then perhaps try a, a, a better way moving forward. So it’s not about using that to then beat yourself up with. Because we’re not gonna do it perfectly. Uh, but thank you, Jim, for that brilliant model.

It’s already such a good model. So good. And, and I think Carrie, in that situation, clearly overperformed, because you’ll see by the picture, by the time that thing was born, it already had a sweater on , which is a little weird. Like she had a knit sweater. It’s a bit of a meta sweater on a Right. It’s a sweater.

A sweater on sheet. She had a wool sweater. A wool sweater On a sheet. On a sheet that just blows my mind. . Okay. We we’re, my wife is very thorough. She’s really good. Recognizing our time here, I want to, I promised at the beginning of this episode, uh, that we did you? Yes. I made did you promise? I made a promise that she never promise.

We would conclude this with Trevor, giving a solution to people’s stress. . Um, so, so here you go. What do we do here? What’s the actions? We take a couple of thoughts. One is, um, around, focusing on where you have control. Mm-hmm. over on things you have no control about. Right. And that distinction, and Rob actually, you’re like the evangelist for that and I, I think of you every time like that, that comes to the foreground.

The, it’s this piece where we have to get really clear on where can I act and, and what’s outside of my capacity. And to stop putting time and energy and focus and complaining or anger or whatever on that, and put it into things where, you know what I can change. , I can change this. So I, I would say that’s one linked to that is this notion about confusing our desire to take responsibility for everything and everyone that’s another jism.

Yeah. Right. That’s another jism coming up. I feel that distinction between responsible two and responsible for, yeah. So if you were dealing with. . Your only job is to be, you are responsible to them. You are responsible for none of them. The only thing you’re responsible for as an adult, yep. Are your thoughts, right?

Your feelings, your choices, responsible for your actions. But where we get in trouble is I feel a need to be responsible for how you feel, right? What you’re thinking, how you’re reacting. Outside of my control, guaranteed chronic stress right there. If you’d like more chronic stress, just take responsibility for everyone else’s feelings.

make your family happy. It’s your job. No, like we, we need to, we end up putting our energy, we avoid it for ourselves. We don’t put it where it needs it. Where I am actually taking responsibility for myself, and we put it where we have no control over the outcomes, where we need to be responsible to others.

We need to be a good colleague, a good worker, a good communicator, a good adult. We need to honor our word, like those kinds of things. That’s responsible too. But do not own other people’s problems. Own yours fully. and then live them out with integrity. Yeah, a hundred percent. I, I would add to that the, um, uh, process, uh, sometimes, uh, knowing the difference between what’s acute and what’s chronic.

Right. Um, uh, have you ever seen those rubber balls? Are there balls made outta rubber bands? Yeah. Right. They’re all like intertwined. It’s like, Take, try to take that thing apart. You don’t know where this thing starts or where it finishes. And often when we feel stressed or overwhelmed, everything that we’re experiencing feels that tightly wound and we don’t know where to start.

And this process was inspired, uh, by great book, which will benefit you in many ways, especially on the values side. Uh, the Values Factor by John d Martini, he talks about a simple process. Uh, for identifying what’s stressing you out and figuring out what options you have. We talked earlier in the episode about we’re never as stuck as we think we are.

We always have options regardless of how it may appear in the moment. And the process is simple. He says, sit down and write down again, the power of reflection, the power of journaling. Sit down and write down everything that is currently frustrating you or stressing you out, or causing you anxiety right now.

Sit down, write ’em all out. Now pick your top. , and he doesn’t say this in his book, but my experience is the top three that will show up are not. You may have some acute stressors that are making your your list, but I can guarantee you’re the one that you would, the ones that you’d probably list as your top stressors are chronic ones.

Chronic, okay. Yeah. He says. Then for each of those, for each of the top three, write down at least six options, viable options that you have. Even if the options, some of the options you list, you would never do or you feel very resistant to doing, write them. Right now, if you have your values figured out, he says, then look at your core values and how would they inform what you do next?

But the process, what happens is all of a sudden you start to back up. You start to identify what’s chronic, what’s acute, what’s actually under the surface. Cuz if you got chronic stressors, I can guarantee you acute ones feel even more acute, right? Cuz you’re actually already in a fear, uh, fight or flight response chronically.

Uh, this allows you to tell the difference, know the difference, and then where you’re feeling. Where you’re feeling like you’re powerless, where you’re feeling like you got no control, you begin to identify. Wait a second, I have options. And all of a sudden, your mindset around it begins, uh, begins to shift, uh, pretty, uh, significantly.

Some great reflection questions and, we’ll, I won’t use all of them, but there’s a, I’ve got a few here that are words. We’ll put ’em all in the end. We’ll put ’em in the show notes. But, uh, some of the q great reflection questions. What are the things that cause me to feel overwhelmed? , what self-care activities do I find most beneficial for managing my stress?

Have I been saying yes to too many things that don’t align with my values or priorities? Short answer that is yes, everyone, yes, you have. How can I focus on what I can control instead of worrying things about things that are outta my control? How can I practice gratitude more often in my daily life?

Being grateful for what I have. This actually increases your, uh, frustration tolerance, by the way, when you. Because gratitude is the most elevated emotion, right? When we get grateful, all of a sudden life doesn’t look as dark as we think it is. And then finally, what are some patterns in my thinking or behavior that contribute to my feelings of overwhelm?

These are self-reflection questions that can help you get present and help you navigate that stressor overwhelm more effectively. . Love it. Rob’s for you. So good. And, uh, there’s so much there. And, and again, we’ll, we’ll link all of those questions in the, uh, in the show notes. Uh, there really a lot of great resources, some great books and, and all of that, uh, that is there.

Um, it’s time to change. Our relationship to stress. Hmm. Uh, and, and that starts with us. It starts with you. It starts with me. Uh, no one else can do it for you. No one else will make that decision for you. It is really about you making that decision. Um, and, and, um, One thing we will say is we absolutely believe in you and believe, uh, that you have within you the ability to be able to rethink, uh, the language around stress.

Uh, the language that you speak to yourself around stress and being overwhelmed and anxiety. Uh, we do encourage you to begin to look at that. Uh, thank you again for being a part of this journey. This has been, uh, again, we’re, we will continue to explore these topics together. Uh, we really are just beginning this journey.

18 episodes in, we are just beginning this, uh, this journey together. I feel incredible. It’s warming up. Just warming up. We’re just warming up. Uh, if you’ve been enjoying, uh, the, the podcast, enjoying some of these episodes, encourage you to like and subscribe so that you don’t miss any of the episodes as they come out.

It’s a great opportunity. Stay connected and it certainly helps us every time you click that little thumbs up, uh, that sets off the algorithms within all of the, uh, different platforms. And so we appreciate it when you like each episode individually as well as subscribe to the podcast. And so much to share.

And I think even today’s topic, we didn’t even talk about boundaries. No, I know, right? And how important boundaries are in dealing with stress at all. Like we could, we could spend so much time, but listen, if these conversations are a. Uh, meaningful. If you’ve been benefiting from them, uh, we do ask you to share them out.

Share them out on your social media platforms. Uh, we’re pretty much on all of them. Uh, and add your thoughts, add your comments. Tag us. Tag living richly. Yeah. Uh, right, uh, uh, so that we can respond. Uh, uh, there’s something about sharing the journey with others that make such a difference. Like-minded people coming together to share what’s going on for them.

Uh, we see the power of it every single. This topic was your idea anyway. Right. We , we, we asked you what. There’s more to come. We have, we have a number of them coming. We have a number of episodes coming. So every once in a while we’re gonna keep putting that question out, but you don’t have to wait for us to ask.

If there’s something you want us to focus on, let us know. Um, also all the resources will be in the show notes. So the show notes slash act actt and the most recent ones are always there. We kind of move them down. So, uh, but you can see all of. Uh, go. They’re useful. This is great stuff.

All the links are there. All the information’s there is there for you. I’d even like to add, I’m, I’m gonna, I’ll send them to you, Trevor. We didn’t discuss this, but when, what to do when you’re triggered, uh, when a high anxiety moment comes upon you, the triggers past trauma or past events. And so your response in the moment.

Is out of sync with what’s actually happening. Uh, I’ve been sharing this out. This is from recent, uh, lessons I’ve been learning. I’ve shared them with a number of folks and already they’ve said, oh my God, this has been so useful. So we’ll share those out even though we didn’t get a chance to talk about them.

You’ve been listening to the Living Richly Podcast. Uh, on behalf of Eric and Trevor, uh, my name is Rob and I just thank you so much for taking the time to listen, and we hope you’ll tune in again next week.