Listen on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Music, or watch on YouTube

 You can watch the videos of all of the Living Richly Podcast episodes on the Living Richly YouTube Channel.

Episode 22: Speaking Up & Listening, with Steve Warne

Well, I’m glad that I was, you know, able to talk about it the way I have been because, it is a challenge because there is that voice that’s saying, what are you soft?       

Rob Dale, Eric Deschamps, Trefor Munn-Venn, and Special Guest Steve Warne!

Hi, and welcome to the Living Richly Podcast. My name is Rob Dale. Uh, I am here with my great friends, Eric Deschamps and Trevor Munn-Venn, and. Who the fuck are you? Hey, am I the first? Am I the first guest? You are. Yes. Steve? Yes. It’s Steve, folks. He’s a real person. It is so awesome to have, uh, Steve, who is our producer and, and, uh, from right, from day one, has been behind the cameras.

Uh, we convinced him to come out from behind the cameras, in front of the cameras. Uh, it’s his first time ever doing any kind of media. Yes. He’s never, he’s very nervous. Very admit. He’s not uncertain. Uh, no it’s not. No, it’s not. I, I feel like I’ve known you. Uh, well, much of my adult life, uh, uh, Steve, of course, for many, many years was a host on, uh, sports talk radio, as well as other radio channels and TV and, and, uh, so much of that within the Ottawa, uh, area.

And, uh, I can remember listening to you, uh, again, probably right. Back from 2001, uh, thereabouts, uh, being able to, listening to you and all of the talk and takes on the senators and, and, uh, ruff riders or whatever they would’ve been called at that point. I think ruff riders and Renegades all of the, yeah, all of the different, uh, uh.

And so, and you’re in public school at this stage right now? Exactly. Just a child. Um, And I, am I the oldest at the table still? No, always the oldest. I think so. Always. It’s the oldest close. I dunno, is there any dirt on the table? It would be slightly a older than you, but it is interesting when you, when you kind of, uh, you, you spent a lot of years listening to someone and literally, you know, during the, the early days of, of, uh, sports radio here in Ottawa, listening to you every day, uh, certainly you had a gift on the radio.

Of kind of bringing people into your life in the way that you would want, and I felt like I got to know you. I got to know even some of your story as you would share about different causes and different things that matter to you, you’d get to know. And, and, and so I remember when we first, we were talking about doing a podcast, I knew I’d been following you, uh, on Twitter for a number of years at that point.

I don’t think you followed me. Tsn, Steve. Yeah. You know, you know, Rob, you’ve, you, you, this seems to be a pattern for you where like, you follow other, it’s almost like, I don’t know, stalker, there’s a word called, I think he was stalking you, Steve. Yeah. So when, so when, so when Rob suggests, oh, I know a guy, like we, we, we should get this guy.

He, he talked about you like he knew you, right? Mm-hmm. And then we only find out later. It’s like, no, he’s just been stalking you. He’s just committed to you. It’s, he’s very committed more than you’re committed to him. And, and so, and for some. Really into you. And for some of you who have been on this journey with us, uh, uh, and listening to these episodes, uh, maybe you’re stalking us.

Oh. No, it is great to have you. But I, I, I don’t, we call them followers. We call them followers. So the social media standard, just followers. Right. I, I gotta get that right. Um, Rob’s struggling. Yeah. It, this really is for me, it, it, it’s been, uh, such a, a pleasure to get to know you. Yeah. Uh, through. Uh, uh, working relationship, uh, and uh, to really see in many ways, uh, you have aligned.

There has been an authenticity. The person I’ve gotten to know, Now is the same as the person that I listened to on the radio and, and so that shows me that you have been genuine in who you are during those years, uh, that you were on, on radio. But it is great to thank goodness. Answer, answer. That would’ve been really awkward, would’ve been awkward.

Hey, now that I know you, you’re nothing, nothing like what I see in the media, unlike the true of you, right? I’m. Uh, to have you on the show, Steve, because again, uh, most folks, uh, from the beginning were into, I don’t know, episode number, what now, but we’re really deep in now, and you’ve been such a huge source of mentoring and knowledge and support and understanding the industry.

I mean, we couldn’t have done this without you. And so to have the fourth member of the team that’s usually behind the camera to have you on the show is, is really special, uh, for us today. Oh, thanks. And, and, and it’s right back at you guys. Uh, obviously I’ve been on the other side of the camera the whole time, so it’s kind of neat to sit and watch you guys beat up on Rob from this chair, so that’s that’s right, that’s right.

That’s a nice perspective from this side, but, but it’s, it’s been great though because, uh, you know, right away I could see a chemistry there. Sometimes you’ll s you know, you’ll take on a job and it’s, it’s clearly just work. But, you know, and this is part of why you’re having me on today because these great conversations, uh, away from the podcast, we’re enjoying a nice bourbon between shows.

And so I could sense there’s a good chemistry there and it’s been a good fit. And so, uh, I’m really pleased that you guys have brought me on for this. Yeah, so it’s been a lot of fun. Great to have. So we have our kind of sense of who you are and, and for those of that may be familiar. And I’ve often, when I am talking about the, uh, the podcast and sharing with people that we’re doing it, and I’ll mention, oh yeah, we have, uh, tsn, Steve, uh, who is, uh, his company is the one that is producing it.

They immediately know, oh, Steve Warren, I know who that is. Um, uh, so people have, uh, kind of their idea of who you are, but maybe. Let’s start out by, you know, for people to really know you. What do they need to know about you? Um, local all the time in terms of, I mean, obviously we’re on the internet now, so it doesn’t really matter local or not, but, uh, I grew up just outside of Ottawa in Richmond, uh, was a sports nut, which led to a career in sports radio.

And, uh, that lasted for the better part of 30 years. And, uh, bell Media Restructuring came a calling as it has for a lot of Canadian. And, uh, then I had to reinvent myself. And so, uh, because I mean, I have a young family and I could pick up and go somewhere else. Start, start a new, but I said to myself, you know what, we’ve moved around quite a bit to get to this stage.

Ottawa is our home. This is where our friends and family are. And so we decided, okay, we’re gonna put down roots here for good and uh, and see what we can, you know, the skills I’ve had that I’ve garnered over the years. Put that to work in writing for Faces Magazine. I’m working, uh, communications for the City of Ottawa, and as you mentioned, uh, a podcast company, which is why I’m here.

It’s Capital podcast.ca. And so it’s, uh, you know, probably busier than I want to be at this stage in my life. I was kind of, Kind of counting on, kind of cruising to the finish line and uh, and hit retirement that. But honestly, uh, I gotta say that, uh, everything’s been really, it’s been a, a neat, fresh chapter that I think was long overdue, doing the same thing, going into the same radio studio every single day, 4:00 AM wake up call.

There was a real rep repetitious pattern that was setting in. And this has sort of freshened things up at a good time in my life. It’s, uh, there’s been some good, there’s been some bad to it. And, and you know, again, we, the reason for having you on an episode is, is not just because you’re behind the camera.

Uh, you have through those, as you mentioned, the conversations that we’ve had. Um, between episodes, uh, where we’ve learned a little of your story, uh, you’ve talked about how, even, how listening to us talk, how that’s impacted you. We’re gonna get to all that. We’re gonna talk about that. Maybe just from a, I’m gonna throw kind of a, not listened in our notes as a question, but I’d be curious, you’d have spent a lot of time in media on the radio.

Uh, what’s been one of the more interesting, uh, uh, individuals that you’ve interviewed over the years? What has been, uh, it easy? It, why is it better? You know, and you like me more than these two young, you, you’ve switch chairs. You’ve talked to a lot of sports, uh, individuals, but not just sport. You’ve talked to a lot of politicians.

You’ve talked to a lot of celebrities. All kinds of different individuals. Has there been one or two that have stood out for you? Well, I, I, and based on celebrity and the, uh, the moment that was, I would say Wayne Gretzky, after Canada broke a 50 year drought in, at the Winter Olympics in hockey. Um, he had, uh, he had been the GM of that team, and we got an opportunity.

While the Canadians were on the ice celebrating in Salt Lake City, Gretzky’s the gm. He’s down at the bench and he’s on the phone. We all see him on the tv and we just happened to be doing a broadcast that day. We didn’t want to, it was a Sunday afternoon. Right, right. But uh, yeah, Gretzky’s on his cell phone calling someone, we’re like, who would he be calling at this stage when he should be going bonkers with everybody else?

Well, my co-host Jim Jerome. Yeah. Really tight with Wayne Gretzky. And so he gave us 45 minutes of his time. Wow. Right after they had won the gold medal in hockey. So that would go down as certainly, um, one of the bigger interviews that I’ve done over the years. But, uh, I mean, as far as hockey goes, I mean, pretty much everybody, you know, I remember the day Connor McDavid came on the radio about a month before draft time and the, and the sends were kind of scuffling at that point.

Yeah. And he actually gave us the. Playing for Ottawa would be a dream come true. I remember that. Yeah. You remember that? Yep. And so, yeah, there’s a lot. I mean, when it comes to sports, pretty much everybody I’ve had a chance to sit down and chat with and, uh, you know, Pete Rose for example, is another one.

And, uh Oh yeah. He was, um, a colorful character. Right. He was a say anything kind of guy and probably not things you should be saying in public Yeah. Here in 2023, so. Great. Um, yeah, those would be a few that popped to mind. I. Hmm. Uh, it, it must have been incredible to be in that kind of in world and, and to your point, yes, it was 4:30 AM calls and, and kind of the routine of that suddenly that’s gone away.

And, uh, what was that like for you, even in those early days of moving out of, again, and I listen, we. We’re, we’re talking local celebrity for sure, but local celebrity? Well, I, I, I don’t know about that. I think, I think, I think certainly locally, uh, uh, certainly among the, I mean, I guess the demographic would primarily be the male.

Tig Gore was the show and the people, right. And of course, Jim had left. Long before you had, um, but there was still this sense of you were a well known individual one day and then all, and, and you don’t even get to a lot of us leave jobs or leave careers, and we do. So very privately you’re a public figure.

What was that like? Well, I mean, it’s the only layoff I’ve known, so I can’t really compare it to, you know, anybody who has a job where it’s, you know, maybe not a, not a, with that profile, I guess. But I, I will say that it was. Different. It was weird. It was, uh, it’s funny how many bullets that I ducked as far as edia layoffs went over the previous 15, 20 years.

I watched a lot of people, yeah, good people, both young and old, uh, get asked to go away. And so I knew that my day would come, but still you’re not ready for it, not. Mentally. Um, so when the, when the news came, um, yeah, it, it is interesting because, you know, and I, and I fired out a tweet as soon as it happened.

And I, and I took the high road. I said, thanks to Belled, I had a great run. Yeah. And very excited to see what the next chapter holds. And at that stage, the Ottawa senators had, they’d been given away all their players. You’ll remember Eric Carlson and everybody, and um, a bunch of others, Mark Stone. And I said, you know, another free agent, you know, yeah.

Here in 2019. And so when I put that out there, it was like nothing I’d seen before in that, I don’t know, probably about 50,000 people. Responded on Twitter to say what? And to express how upset they were. And they’re never listening to the station again. Of course. That’s until next week. Exactly. Um, but it still was, you know, I think about the people that don’t have a platform like that, that kind of, their identity has been taken from them to some degree and they’ve been laid off and they’re driving home and it’s like, what am I gonna do now?

I would say there was a positive that went with that from the perspective of I had all these people, thousands of people, Pat me on the back saying, you did an amazing job. I’m gonna miss you. And that really helped. Mm-hmm. Right in interesting that you say that and, and we, we talk about it again around, uh, the language matters, the kind of people you surround yourself with.

Right? You could rally around there again, two camps, uh, maybe three, but two camps that I’m thinking of. One, which is the negative. You know, you’re the victim, you know. You know, boycott, T s n, boycott, whatever, and then the other group saying, Hey, we we’re here for you. We believe in you and, and it’s the positive communication versus a negative, right?

Mm-hmm. Which is something we see. Certainly it’s part of the Living Richly message is the community that you’re in, right? Well, I think, I think it’s easy to play to someone’s anger, frustration, disappointment. I think we’ve all been in moments of great disappointment where things have not turned out the way we want, and it’s not the voices that encourage Vic.

To mentality that usually stay with us. It’s, it’s the messages from those folks who say, you’ve got this, we’re with you. You’re going to figure this out. That’s powerful. Right? The other easy to play into that cuz our lower human nature is hurt, we’re disappointed. I can only imagine the litany feelings you were going through, uh, through that.

It was so easy to give, give in to that lower nature. Uh, what was that, what was that all like for you? Well, there’s truth in what you say, but at the same time, Maybe you and I have brains that work differently because I’d always glom onto that negative guy who came in and said, I hate your takes. I hate you.

Why are you in radio? And, and they didn’t come along very often, but I’d get a hundred great messages just in general, not after the layoff, but just in general. And that one would just. And I’d wanna respond and all that. Yeah. But, uh, well, that, that you and I are the same. Yeah. Yeah. So, but, but, but as far as the day that it happened, it was nothing but positive.

So I didn’t even have to deal with the negatives. And, and there was even some turkeys in there that I’d quarreled with before, either on the air or in, uh, social media. And even they. We’re rolling in with positives, so that, that makes things a a lot easier. And if, and if there’s a downside to the, the profile of the job, it would be that everybody knows Right?

Right. Everybody in my circle of friends and family and every, sometimes you lose job, you can, one of the upsides is you can go home. Regroup and maybe get a job in a, a month or so and nobody even notices that anything happens. Yeah. You’re living in a fishbowl, right? Yeah. Next time you see them, you’re like, Hey, how’s it going?

Oh, I’ve changed. I made a change of direction or whatever for you. Yeah. The very, everybody’s like, oh yeah. Literally There’s a buddy of mine who, uh, who plays uh, pickup hockey with me and about, I dunno. I took a couple of days and laid. And, uh, maybe enjoyed a couple of those. But then went back to pickup hockey.

And the first thing one of my buddies says when I come into the room, he said, Hey, didn’t you used to be Steve Warren? Oh, just right away. I did. I still am. I still am. Same guy. Same guy. Anyway, but you know what the laugh. But so we had tiptoeing, no, the laugh was great, you know, and he knew that I would take it that way.

Yeah, he knew. You know, breakdown on the spot. Like, oh, dare you. Um, so it was a positive, but it was just general big picture. It was an interesting experiment in that, uh, everybody that I, you know, they were, they were reaching out and stuff. It was just part of me wanted to just kind of go off and, uh, and, and do things quietly, but everybody knew and that’s how it was, right.

And yet there was, uh, certainly during that season, um, and, and I’m starting to feel like I’m, uh, Barbara Walters here, and there’s, there’s more to this story. You, you’re gonna try and make me cry. Are you? That’s a Barbara Walters deal. Are you Chaning, right? Yeah. No. I, I don’t know. But guys, because is this so weird to have you say that?

That was the weirdest thing. You know what you do? Don’t. Steve totally got it. He understood exactly what saying, although I get it, it’s just weird for you to say It’s not, it’s not, not She’s still alive. No, she’s, no, she, she recently passed channeling. She recently passed, so I am, I am Absolutely. No, of course that all happened.

When, when, when did that happen? Was year. 2019. Right. Okay. Uh, so 2019, that happens very public. And then all of a sudden the pandemic hits lots. Go on. There’s, there’s kind of, now you’re not in the public eye, but you’re, you’re still, you go out, I’m, I’m sure this still happens to this day. You go into certain environments and people go, uh, I know who you are and I know that you’re on the radio, but still there is.

Your face was around enough that people, I’m sure you people recognized you, a lot of stuff was happening in your life privately. Oh, yeah. I mean it was, uh, an interesting run for sure. And, uh, and, and this is, I, I think maybe part of why we were having this conversation and that, uh, we talked about this off the air and, uh, in my reaction to one of the earlier episodes about, you know, just the conversation, how important that.

To, to getting over things in your life. And in my case, it was, uh, an interesting little medley of 2019. Job loss. In the midst of the pandemic. And not that long after I lost my dad, um, who I’ve known all my life. Little dark humor there. Little played here. I was born at a very young age. Yes, right, that’s right there.

Precisely. Yeah. No, I, I loved him dearly. And it really, uh, were you guys close? Oh yeah. Yeah. We, we looked the same. We were the. I wanted to be him. I wanted to act like him. And, uh, we’re, he’s the reason I’m a sports fan. That was what we did. We watched Sports Hockey Night in Canada. Our deal growing up, growing up in Richmond, it was going to the local junior B game for I was a very young age.

And then the two of us sprinting home to watch the last period of hockey night in Canada. We’d watch NFL together, we’d, uh, chuck the footballer in the backyard, the whole field of dreams, want to have a catch dad. And, uh, so when he passed, You know, he’d been battling nothing, nothing life threatening, but his, his, his health was going downhill, so I knew, and he was 80 when he passed, so I had a lot of time to get ready for, and, and we weren’t the types of guys who would say, I love you to each other.

Um, we always did a thing. We agreed, when I was about 16 firm handshake, we’d say, firm handshake, give a firm handshake. And we established that meant we loved each other and we didn’t say, I loved you. We loved that, uh, through our whole lives except for firm h. With the exception of the last time I saw him at the hospital and, uh, actually said the words.

Mm-hmm. Yeah. So that’s, uh, that was a, a lot to deal with in, in a fairly short period of time. And also amidst the spectrum of dealing with a son who has autism adult son at home named Michael, who is an absolutely amazing human being, but has its challenges. Autism always does. Yeah. And so just all of. Was a lot for a short period of time.

I remember the first time that, uh, I heard you talk about your son, uh, on the radio. I believe there was, it was either a charity that you were involved in, but, uh, and it resonated. It, it, it’s when you, the moment you became my favorite radio personality and I, and I. Genuinely mean that I don’t, not just cuz you’re here, you were my favorite re radial personality when you were on the air.

Thank, uh, but the connection came because of the autism. Uh, I had an aunt who, uh, committed suicide. I, I, I don’t get into too much detail on her story and when I share mine, but just that she was a number of those, those deaths. Uh, the deaths that I had in my, the Dale family, and she had been, uh, she was a teacher for an autistic, a class of autistic, uh, children.

And I would come in and I would, uh, do some, uh, volunteer work with her. Uh, and I got to spend a lot of time around about a dozen autistic, uh, children. And so I have always had this kind. Connection with, uh, children of, uh, autistic children. And so then when I first heard that you had an autistic title, I was like, Hmm, right?

That made that, all of a sudden there was a likeness, a connection. So I remember hearing that. But, uh, the challenges, uh, that, you know, again, you love your son deeply. You cared deeply for him. Uh, just working through that with everything else going on and being able to help support him in all of, all of these things as well.

Yeah. That, that was another layer to things. Um, you know, had it happened in the, you know, mid nineties for example, when he was diagnosed, if I’d gotten, you know, if he had gotten diagnosed in and around that time, that would’ve been, cuz obviously I had many years to, to get used to the, the idea of it. But in the mid nineties when he was diagnosed, it was, there was a period where you’re kind of, uh, grieving the loss of the child you thought you were gonna have, for lack of a better way of putting it.

Um, and actually that’s beautifully put. Yeah. Um, But it’s just a, you know, there’s a lovely, sorry to get off topic. There’s a lovely sort of a poem that compares having a child with, uh, high needs, um, compares it to taking a vacation. You think you’re going to Italy and the plane gets rerouted to Holland and it’s, it’s, it’s a, it’s lovely in, in, in terms of getting your head around it because, It’s different.

You’re always going to wonder, you know, why didn’t I get to go to Italy like all my friends did. Um, but I, I got to go to this other wonderful place as well. And Michael is a wonderful, wonderful kid. Um, so I, and I’ve got rerouted. Can you gimme your original question again? Sorry about that. Well, just again, how, what it would’ve been, and you’ve answered it, I don’t think you went off topic at all there.

I think that was actually a beautiful answer to the notion of just what it would’ve been like. You, you’re, you’re, you’re supporting your son who you love, and then also going through all these other things and, and he’s not able to, regardless of his age, is not able to really, fully comprehend and say, Hey dad, you know, he, he’s not able to respond to you.

Let’s say the, in the same interaction of the, of the relationship you had with your dad. You’re carrying and, and bringing him through that whole process, even in the midst of that, which would’ve been incredible. Yeah. He, he loved his, his granddad and didn’t quite understand what was shaking. He understand, he understood, you know, he’s not gonna be around anymore.

But, you know, death is such an abstract thing for all of us, let alone someone with autism. And so his deal was, you know, so we’re not going to grandpa’s anymore. We’re not going to watch that. My favorite Donald Duck 1940 VHS tape that grandpa always used to show me. And so, uh, I think it affected him more than, more than we know.

He doesn’t articulate very well his, his own feelings, but I think it, he, he, he’s absorbing way more than we know. It just doesn’t, the output isn’t the same as, as a neurotypical person. So, um, yeah, it was a, it was a difficult time for him and he had his normal challenges. You know, from my wife, Linda, and I’s perspective, we had to deal with autism as we always have.

In my case anyway. And my wife is an absolute rock, uh, through all these challenges. She’s been phenomenal. She’s the way you guys talk about your partners. It’s, yeah, I gotta say that’s exactly the way it is with Linden. She’s, since day one, she’s been, uh, the reason I’ve accomplished anything in this, in this life.

That’s beautiful. You know the talk about the pandemic, which hit every. In lots of different ways. Loss of your dad, the, uh, the loss of your job mm-hmm. In the pub. So all of us go through these things in, in life where life just throws shit at us. Right. And we kind of go, it often comes in twos and threes.

Twos and threes. Yeah. It’s, it’s fascinating that way. The, and we’ve gotta navigate our way through that. Uh, how did you go through it? What did, what did you do to sustain yourself to, uh, support or comfort yourself through it? Because, uh, you did say there’s a lot of loss in there, there’s a lot of loss and, uh, loss unattended, like, uh, you know, but it becomes its own issue on top of, on top of all that.

Like, how did you, how did you navigate your way through that? So, and maybe thinking of others as well. Going, all right. Like, I guess where I’m headed a little bit is when, when all this stuff lands kind of all at once, um, what did you do? What did you do? Well, I think I was, I’m, I’m blessed right outta the gate from, you know, from having a, a fantastic childhood that filled me with confidence and that, and that filled me with strength and I think that gave me a leg up on where maybe somebody who didn’t have those things, uh, if they had to deal with all that stuff in a short period of.

It may have been meltdown time. So I think I had an advantage, uh, from that perspective and then throw in the Linda Factor. Um, you know, the strength that she’s given me throughout the years has been phenomenal. And again, she just, she just lights up a room when she comes in and, and just cheers me up by just being there.

And so, um, that, that, that was a factor as well. Uh, I wish I had some specific advice for people in terms of how I dealt with it on a day-to-day basis. Um, I do know and, and I kind of realized that when the four of us were talking after a recent podcast that any conversations I had about it, um, they were very productive cuz there’s, there’s nothing you can do to bring back a loved one or to erase something really negative happening in your life.

Um, I’m, a friend of mine is going through the worst possible family tragedy in the world, and we’re trying to figure out ways, you know, to support him. There’s no way you can do anything except listen to what. Has to say and what he wants to say and, and be there for him. Yeah. And uh, I used to think that was trite.

I used to think that was cliche and then went through that period and I was like, oh my God, as I’m allowed to talk about it and people just listen. I feel, and I don’t know why, but I feel better about it now that I’ve, now that I’ve just sort of put it out there. Right. And, uh, versus just letting it, you know, uh, you know, cram it down.

Uh, it, it’s like a release of the negative somehow. And I think that’s part of what was helpful for sure. And the more I. And it gets trickier because in the moment, in the, in the very chronic moment of, of, uh, the sadness and or maybe a tragedy or whatever it is, people are there for you in, you know, Say in my dad’s case for a month or two, sorry to hear about that.

And they’ll listen and, and then they move on and, right. But I haven’t moved on. Right. Hell, I don’t, you’re just starting to cope or deal with it. Yeah. Yeah. And, and I’m not even sure I’m fully there yet. Yeah. Uh, we, we’ve had conversations, the four of us as well, about, uh, what, what exactly does it mean to be over something?

Hmm. You know, everyone What Field of Dreams? That’s why it came up earlier. Yeah. I watched Field of Dreams sat down. It was one of those movies. Right. You’re flicking around, whether it’s Shaw Shank or Redemption or God fellas or Field of Dreams. There’s a, there’s, there’s some star movie watching Israeli Star Wars.

You’re not flicking away, you’re standing right till the end, right to the end, watching him have a catch with a dad. I, I was blubbering way, it was way outta line with where I should be blubbering at that stage. Like actual tragedies that I’ve dealt with that were all awful. Um, I didn’t cry in the moment, but here I am crying because Kevin Costner is having a catch with his dad.

So that tells me that there’s still unresolved things going on in there. Um, you know, I can’t sit here and, you know, be a guest on this show and say that I’ve got any level of answers. Um, I’m muddling through like anybody else. Yeah. Well, I, I love it. I think tragedy this past week was, uh, the 15th year anniversary, uh, of my dad passing, uh, after a two year battle with lung cancer.

He was 66, really young. Um, so I can, I can appreciate that. And I, when he passed, Um, again, I, when we talk about there was a number of sh of things going on for you, it was the same for me back then, which led to a, a complete reinvention of myself. But did I know how to move through it? At the time, I, I didn’t and I did the best.

I muddled through the best I could, but what I’ve, I’ve come to realize and recognize is when we have the opportunity, when it makes sense to, in a safe environment, to talk about some of this, uh, right. It, it, it moves through us often. I think it’d gets stuck. Um, and, and I think, uh, we also, and, and, and this is a separate thought I want to come back to cuz one of the other things we talked about after recent episode was how I, I, I remember you saying like, but for guys, like, we don’t talk about this stuff.

And as a matter of fact to talk about it, right. It, it like, almost like it’s shamed, right? Uh, and, and so I, I do want to visit that with you, but I think how we move through it determines how it moves through us. And when we’re willing in the right moment to let grief, let pain show up. And it may sometimes show up and we’re watching a movie and all of a sudden we’re going, wait a second.

My reaction is outta sync with what’s really happening right now, but. This is good. This is good. I’m gonna let, I’m just gonna let this move through me. I, I think that’s part of the journey and like I, 15 years later, I’m still, am I over my dad? Yeah. I don’t know. No. I mean, I don’t know. I don’t think so, but I’m, I’m like, it’s.

As grief shows up, I think it’s just allowing it to show up. But talk to me perhaps about this whole notion of, but it’s, for most guys especially, and you grew up, you, you talked about growing up in a, in a sports type environment. I dunno if you’re comfortable talking about this, but like not okay to talk about pain, weakness, uh, or anything of that nature.

Tremendous fear attached to that. Yeah. And it shouldn’t be, at this stage in my life, I should be in a mode of, You know, I don’t care anymore. But there’s that, you know, we talked about the foundation and it was 90% positive. And so that’s been a good thing. But there’s also that sports mentality of, uh, you know, whether it’s a physical injury in the moment, rub some dirt on it, get back in there.

It’s just a flesh wound. Yeah, exactly. You know, and then you start talking about your feelings. I won’t use the expression I used with you off the air. It’s probably not a good That was in private. Yeah. Yeah, that was in private, but it was basically something along the lines of, well, we’ll include it in the show now.

Excellent. But it’s basically, what are you soft? Yeah. You know, that kind of thing, but way more graphic than that. Um, and so that, that stays with you. If, if you get that driven into you year after year in a, you know, in a all male locker room coming up. Late seventies and through the eighties. I mean, that’s a different time.

Yeah. And uh, it would all be unheard of now, of course, but uh, in your formative years, if that’s the mentality that all your peers have and coaches are driving it home, um, I, I’m glad that I was, you know, able to talk about it the way I have been because, uh, it is a challenge because there is that voice that’s saying, what are you soft?

Right? And you have to fight that a little bit. And I, and I’m, I’ve been blessed that, and, and, and, and part of the, just to continue on with that, that, that sort of thread, um, it’s finding the right person to talk to. Yeah. Yeah. Because if you grab somebody that’s, Really just a, you know, a maybe a drinking buddy that’s sort of a fringe friend or whatever.

It, it’s not the, it’s, it’s got, it’s gotta be someone who just genuinely cares about you and has their ears wide open for you. And in my case, it was my wife, Linda, it was a buddy of mine, Mike who, who is the same guy who, who is going through the tragedy right now. So it’s been an interesting, you know, Shift.

But yeah, it, it’s absolutely been wonderful that I’ve got those people in my life that I can kind of give the Heisman to that old school thinking and say, get outta here, and then have these conversations that have, I think, been really, really healthy. In recovering from this. And, and it’s something I, I know that for sure that this has been, the comment we’ve received more than any around living richly is just the fact that it’s, you know, in three guys now four guys in this episode talk, well, it’s always four guys come, always, four guys can, but hiding in the corner saying, don’t ask me other, Hey.

But, but now you’re, this is fantastic. Cause I think it’s really great for our, our, our audience. Like you’re the guy that often. Hey, rice, Steven, we here No. In the background and now still drinking bourbons. Still drinking Bourn. Yeah. Wherever I am. The, the emotion, uh, piece is, it’s not common. Mm-hmm. And it still is not common.

And it’s, and it goes back. It’s certainly, you know, as you mentioned all through your life and, and the hockey culture. Hell, I’ve seen people though. Now again, Twitter. Is Twitter. Right? And, and you, you get, uh, people at the keyboard warrior, but you do have people, they’ll even make comments like, oh, my grandfather was in World War I and you know, they sir weren’t talking about, uh, having a, uh, a mental health day or whatever.

Right. Like yeah, exactly. Just suffering in silence, but Exactly, exactly. Talk about it. It’s, it’s. So ridiculous. Yeah. That we have put this pressure primarily on men, uh, boys. We starts as, as, as, as certainly as they hit 13 years to be afraid to be able to be open with the people that that matter most to them.

Well, to not only be. Afraid it that it’s not normal. That’s not, it’s not okay. It’s not acceptable to talk about real shit, um, uh, to talk about real pain, honestly, to talk about how one is feeling in the moment. Uh, I think, again, I think women do this way better than we do. Uh, where they do talk, like amongst friends, they do share more openly about their challenges and their struggles and what they’re feeling.

And, and we as men get together and we just shoot shit, right? We shoot the shit and we, we don’t talk. We, we connect, but we connect often at a very superficial level. And underneath there’s all this pain and frustration and anger and fear, and, and we’re not allowed to, like, we don’t allow that to even be given expression.

And so where does it go? It just goes underground. And it becomes something else. And the senses of feelings aren’t manly. Right? And they think that’s, that goes to the crux of it, that, you know, you share your feeling. Outwardly with other men, then, uh, you know, there’s this thought that that’s just, just not the way it’s done.

Yeah. And you see some guys that are just cut off from, you know, their, their partners, their, you know, I don’t wanna say cold, but a little cut off from their kids from where they could be. And you know, as again, as someone has come through that lifestyle, coming through that whole. Jock in the locker room thing.

Um, it, it’s, it’s, it’s a gravely unhealthy thing to just shut down from all of that stuff. You, you might think and it’s like, yeah, I’m being the man, I’m being the rock jaw dude. Well, no, that has a shelf life, doesn’t it? Like you, yeah. It’s when you’re, when we’re younger, I remember I, when I was younger, I was able to sustain that.

I was able to maintain. That public image. Uh, and it wasn’t until I couldn’t anymore. Right? Well, all of a sudden the energy required to pull that off was no longer available to me. Right. That it felt like the bottom was coming out. And now I’m desperately grasping like, what the fuck? Like, yeah, like something’s happening and I don’t know what’s going on.

I don’t like it, but there’s. Uh, and how much lighter did you feel when it did finally come out lighter? You felt lighter, transformative felt, feel free. Yeah. You feel all of a sudden, oh, wait a second. Yeah, that this is actually part, this is not only healthy, this is actually normal. What I had been doing is some twisted sort of approach to life that is so toxic because again, all if it doesn’t move through you, it stays in you.

Uh, and I think for guys, I think this is why we have such, in many ways it may be an overly simplistic way to look at it, but I think it is why we have such a complex relationship with anger, because I think all that stuff, Uh, ferments inside of us and it shows up in many ways. It has to get out at some point.

Right. And so it explodes enter the midlife crisis, right. For, for so many. Yeah. And, and it’s not about, there’s nothing magic about midlife. It’s about how long can you hold all this stuff. Right. It’s stress is about time under tension. Yeah. So it could be stuff from a long time ago, but we’re still holding it.

We don’t know what to do with it. We don’t know what to do there, and we’re not given strategies other than don’t look at. Put it away, don’t talk about it. Right. Leave it alone. All of the, all of these things are our messages in terms of our strategies about what to do with it. And then we get to a point where we’re like, what the hell?

Like I, why do I feel like crap all the time? They told me to hold this stuff. You’ll be good. And I really, I think it’s like, hold this stuff cuz we don’t wanna look at it and we feel uncomfortable about talking about it. Right. It’s actually not about the person who’s experiencing it, it’s the people who are around them.

So trying to find people who will sit with you and just listen. And that’s when you realize. Damn, that’s not trite. That’s profound. To have a person who will just be with you in your moment of hurt or pain or suffering or whatever, and just be with you. You don’t have to solve anything. Yeah. And it’s, and who knows how it all manifests itself if you do keep it in?

Mm-hmm. Like you think about, okay, so true. Whether I’m cut off from my kids or my wife’s not very. Uh, or I’m not very happy. I’m feeling miserable all the time to something gravely awful to, to something. Even like domestic assault. Who knows if some of those cases aren’t basically long-term triggers from keeping garbage like that in your system?

I’m not trying to excuse it, or, or, or of course talking away. No worries, obviously, but, Who knows why, you know where things go if you don’t deal with all that stuff. Well, the abs I, I would say absolutely you can trace some of those situations to unresolved, unresolved childhood and, and the, and not just childhood, but unresolved grief that is translated into anger that you don’t know how to express.

What’s the old saying? Hurt people. Hurt, hurt. Yeah. Right. And so when we don’t move again, if the, if the, if the hurt and the pain and, and whatever it is, the, the toxicity doesn’t move through us, it stays in us. And if it doesn’t, if we don’t figure out a way to deal with it in a healthier fashion, it’s still gonna come out.

Yeah. Except that usually untouched, unprocessed, it’s usually gonna come out sideways in unhealthy ways. And the unhealthy ways have a direct impact on our own wellbeing. Yeah. Um, and I, again, I speak from experience. Our loved ones often are the ones that also suffer Well, absolutely. They pretty significant.

Yeah. And, and and I, I so appreciate when we first started having this conversation and said, Hey, would you be interested in coming out from behind the camera and, and being, uh, on this side of it? And you were like, no, on you. Like, come on, we’ll fire you if you don’t. Okay. You’re like, I quit. Like, no, no, go.

Like, it was very complicated. Was very complicated. Convers, part of what you said was part of what you, you said at the time was this, this, you kinda said, well, I don’t, I’m not there yet. Like I’m still kind of figuring this stuff out and, and I think we were all like, Me too. Yes. But, but I do, I do fear sometimes that, you know, for our listeners, they listen to the three of us.

They see the way we engage. Listen, there are times we’re pissed off at each other. There no, while, there are times when I’m pissed off at you. Okay. I can see that. I can see that. See the way we, you I can, I can. Yeah. I totally took 25 minutes on an episode to join you guys and piling No, I was on your side.

I said, I can see you. Oh. Oh man. You just keep pushing people away with you guys. He a little bit, that feels a little bit like a victim mentality there. I don’t know. Um, from our side of the table, Rob, there are days when I am absolutely not living richly. Oh, come on. There are days, uh, we are working this shit out.

Yeah. In the moment. Right. And that’s the beauty of what I love about having Steve on, on the episode. And we certainly want to have this is, this is. People, not just guys, it’s four guys here. We’ll, like I said, we’re gonna have some, some females that we’re gonna have want to hear their stories. Of course.

Uh, this is about people on a journey of figuring this out. And the reason we launched this podcast in the beginning was because we recognize that we were onto something that other people would value and benefit from. Yeah. That they’re also on and they’re there and that they’re also onto Thank you.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, one, one question. For you, I mean, already what you have said today, people listening, watching this podcast, they’re gonna be inspired by Yeah. Um, because you have just given them permission. Uh, to perhaps have the fir for maybe the first time or perhaps in a different level to open up about some stuff that perhaps they’ve been afraid to open up to.

So if that’s the only thing people hear today, that can be transformative, but I’m curious about this one. Okay. And you can, you can answer this or tell me to fuck off. Okay. Yeah, you’re Please tell her to fuck off. Answer then answer. But here we were, I remember early stage, right? The first couple times we got together, we barely know each other.

Uh, hit it off right away. There was a genuine, ah, you know, we can really connect. And most of the conversation after a day of recording, we usually come together and record like, you know, four to five episodes a day. Um, um, and so we’re spending a whole day together. And, and in the early days it was more like, so Steve, like what’s some advice you have from a podcast perspective on how we and you, you’ve provided such great guidance.

God, yeah, but I, I’m so sorry about those early episodes. Yeah, they’re right. We’re learning. We’re learning folks. They’re only gonna get better we hope. Um, uh, but I still remember the day you made a comment at the end of a, a day full of, and you, you said the following words, and I’m curious what was behind that for you?

This is like getting, I think free therapy is some to that. Do you remember that, making that comment? You said this is like getting free therapy. I’m curious, you coming here, this could have just been a job we’ve talked about there’s been a connection. What was that kind of moment for you where you went?

Hmm. There’s more to this perhaps than I realized. Even signing up to, to, to, to provide the services in the bank. Well, it, it’s, it’s a, like-mindedness. It’s, it’s, uh, you guys are the same age as me. You’ve had a lot of the same experiences. You know, if you, you ever have conversations with, say your kids about, My kids are in their twenties and, uh, there’s know, I see the generation gap.

Right, right. They look at you like you’re, you’re ancient, right? Yeah. No, it just references that I’m 100% sure are cool, but they’re just not, no need to stop with the lump references. Stop talking. Stop talking. Yeah. No, so it’s been, I mean, as much off the air as on, but hearing the, you know, the conversation from guys your age that are talking the way you guys.

Um, it’s refreshing. It’s an epiphany. It’s whatever word you want to throw in there. Uh, it’s just, uh, most of the guys that I hang it with, I love dearly, but at the same time we talk sports. We, if, if we get into how are you? It’s a very, very surface look at how we are and then back to sports or whatever.

Um, so it was. Probably came along at a good time. Mm. To, uh, to hear people talking about this, men talking this way because you just don’t hear it very often. Um, whether it’s a fear taught that way or, um, just the, I don’t know, it just across the board, it was just, um, something new, something different. And uh, yeah, it wasn’t one, one specific thing, but I would say that a, as good as the stuff is on the show.

It was the conversation. Cause obviously I was able to engage with you and, and talk about some of the stuff we just talked about in that episode. Yeah. That would, that, that resonated with me and, and to have an opportunity to immediately get feedback. Everybody listening right now who’s, who’s already a fan of the podcast.

Would probably like to do what I do, and that’s, you know, okay, uh, here’s my situation as an appliance for that episode. Great. Right. So that’s been fun. Uh, you know, there’s, there’s been, you know, the Star Wars episode, for example, I’m not really the biggest Star Wars fan, but all the other ones all day long, they were all great.

So except for that one. Yeah. So gimme a helmet and maybe I’ll get into it. So there wasn’t a any particular moment, but it was, it was an evolution itself. Exactly. Exactly. Just, uh, it’s, it’s something unusual and. Yeah. No, I’ve really enjoyed it. Mm-hmm. And I look forward to more. Yeah. Right on. Right on.

We’re glad you’re here. Mm-hmm. We’re glad you’re here. We see that. Even that makes me uncomfortable. Yeah. That’s, that’s the, that’s the world I come from in that it’s like, Ooh, he’s, he’s happy that I’m here. I’m not sure how I feel about that. Right. How about this, Steve? Just say, thank you. I’m glad to be here.

Geez. You know, that kind of thing. It’s not really that hard, but it’s just. I remember how, how long it took me, and it was, I think even a conversation with Sherry might have started to work on this before, but how long it took me, uh, to be able to, when somebody would come up to me and say, man, I really enjoyed what you had to say, or, and I would you again, for so long, all through my, the preaching days.

Oh. It was, you know, and I, I’d kind of passed on something else to just be able to say. Kind of shit. Yeah. Oh, thank you for, thank you. That I, I’m glad that it, it spoke to you. Yeah. You’ve, you’ve talked about how Yeah. Hand on the heart very quick. Thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah. No one ever notices. No one ever notices.

Right. But it’s just like, Hey, thanks. I appreciate that. Yeah. Can we try it again? Yeah, yeah. You, well, we, I, we are really glad that you’re here with us. Thank you. Well, that is good. Sorry. It’s, it’s pretty good. Thank you. Pretty good. We’ll get Sherry on the show. She’s amazing. Amazing. Um, So you look back and, and, um, you kind of a, as you think through some of this, uh, it, it is probably a, again, a bit of a, a weird question, recognizing some of the, the challenges.

Maybe let’s talk about those, the, the few years, those, the, you know, the firing, the passing of your dad, C O V I D, all of that. Um, what are you grateful for during that time? All the good things. There’s so many good things and I, and, uh, that’s what I celebrate all the. Um, I have a daughter, Lindsay. She’s, um, she’s about to go to teachers college in the fall.

I’ve got Michael who inspires me every day to to fight through this autistic haze that he’s been given in this world and still have this neat personality with a great sense of humor. He’s challenging, but he’s an amazing kid. Uh, my wife’s just tremendous. I’m thankful for so many great things. We have this wonderful House, 140 year old house in, outside of Manatee, this great old stone building.

You know, I, I’m, I hear Trevor talking about this place where we are right now, and, and, uh, his love of this, and I, I feel it. We have 20 years in Bar Haven and we were like, Ugh. No room at all. And then all of a sudden we move out and we have three acres of land. Don’t know what I’m gonna do with it all other than cut it every two weeks, but it’s a lot.

Do you want some cheating? Yeah, probably keep it, they can keep it pretty relatively. I’ll grab a la on the way out. There’s some lambs for sale. Yeah. And I, and, and I, I’m just, uh, I’m thankful for all the positives and, and friends and, uh, the sports. I, I mean, I, I can’t. You guys always talk about finding that thing, you know, that one thing that you always talk about, you know, and I think about some of the sports I play, like I still play.

Um, hockey and I still play golf, and that’s, I know that it seems like a small thing and big deal, but you know, that’s what we, that’s what life’s about. Finding the thing that revs you up and, and showing up on the first tee, even though I’m a terrible golfer showing up on the first tee with friends cold beers, and it just, that, that scratch is my itch.

And so throughout all those things, I still had so many blessings in my life, Rob. Um, it would, it would take a lot more than those things to unravel me, uh, thankfully. Um, but, uh, yeah, those are the things that kind of kept me going. When, when you look back, what was missing? Like when you look back with kind of the, uh, a little more experience, a little more insight, a little more time, a little more wisdom maybe about, you know, I wish I’d had this, you know, that would’ve.

Really helped or moved things forward or stabilized things like what, what, what would you have liked to, to have In, in, in a big picture way or during the, the, the years we’re talking about like your life. Yeah. During, I think I was thinking like particularly during that, those years. Those years when like all this landed.

Yeah. Wow. What would I like in there? What would’ve helped that maybe was missing? Well, I th I think that the things we’ve talked about, you know, just having more access to. You know, and, and I, and I, again, I had some, I had people that were really inquisitive and really cared. Um, I think that’s what everybody struggles with a little bit in that in those early days, maybe even the first couple of months after something big happens, people are there for you, but they’ve got their own lives.

Like you guys have talked about on the show, everybody’s flailing, everybody’s got their struggles. They can only be there for X amount of support. It’s only the real special people in your life that you can really lean on in times like that. And I’m not saying this to, you know, suggest anybody in my life, you know, didn’t help enough or anything like that.

It’s just the way it is. Yeah. But it would’ve been nice to, uh, probably, and part of it’s on me too, in that I was. Probably more focused within and, and all the things I was dealing with at that stage. But it would’ve been nice if I could do over again to, you know, seek people out and say, I would like to go out with you.

And actually, if you don’t mind, I know it’s been three, four months since this happened, but it’d be nice to have an opportunity to talk about it with you, you in particular. And there’s probably only about 10 people in my life that I would think that way about, but that would be probably the thing that would be missing most in that.

You know, it would’ve been nice to hear a little bit more from people, but more than that, me, I should have been more proactive knowing, particularly knowing, you know, after all the conversations we’ve had, particularly knowing how much talking about things helps. Yeah. Yeah. It, it’s powerful. Whew. Is it ever powerful?

And it’s this notion of, again, and we’ve, we talk about it all the time here on the, uh, on the, uh, podcast, um, living Your Best Life. Starts with you. Yeah. Uh, it’s within your control. It’s the fa and I so appreciate what you said there about, uh, I would’ve liked to have maybe reached out to some people and it’s within our control, how they respond.

We can’t really say right until we do, until we reach out. But we have control and, but we have control over sharing and expressing. To the people that are closest to us, and I have no doubt that those that are closest to us, yes, they may, you know, in the case of you, you have a couple guys that maybe that are close to that.

They’re, they haven’t really been equipped. I don’t know how to share my own feelings and now you want me to listen to you share your feelings. But most would, in a genuine way, if they care about us, would say, I’m, I’m ready to at least listen. And I don’t know how well I’ll do with that. Certainly our partners, uh, can be very, uh, uh, valuable and I love.

You’ve said about your own, uh, and, and being able to, when you have the right partner, when you’ve got the right partner to be able to have that as well. Uh, but it really does start with us expressing And, and, and I’ll tell you this, uh, I know you were worried about coming on and what this would look like, even like this.

Fuck, that’s this. Just, I think we just took the, the, the podcast to another level. Uh, today, this might almost rival the Star Wars episode. This almost, this might be the second best episode, right? Of all of the episodes. Uh, only because there, there’s such a sense we are, we are not talking about something.

Out there that is not real life. This is about taking now these principles and applying to the, to the real challenges that we face each and every day. And so thank you, thank you, thank you for being a part of this, for being willing. I, I know this is a big step. Uh, I can’t wait till we blast this out over all the social media thousand.

Thousands and thousands of people get to hear your story. I see the ulterior motive. No, no, no. Uh, no. I really do appreciate that. Yeah. That you took the time you were willing to open up. I know this wasn’t easy, um, but, uh, yet you hear you were willing to be a part of this. This is what this, uh, journey is about.

It’s a community of people trying to grow, uh, together. So thank you so much for being a part of this. Thank you boys. This is nice. Real nice. Thank. Thank you for having me. Yeah, absolutely. Hey, so again, thank you so much for tuning into our episode. One of the things I want to encourage you to do is, is if this spoke to you, uh, again, I would encourage you to leave a comment.

Uh, would love it if you would like and, and, uh, and subscribe to the channel. Uh, but certainly let’s. Let’s hear a little bit of your story. Uh, maybe there are parts of Steve’s story that have connected to you. We’d love to hear about those, uh, as well. And of course we’ll pass those comments along to Steve.

You can also, again, the easiest way to follow him is on, on Twitter, uh, at tsn, Steve, and I know that he’d welcome your comments there as well and share it out. Uh, I’m sure those of us, uh, those of you that are listening know an, uh, you know, a man who. Need to hear this, uh, who perhaps is struggling to open up and share their pain.

And, and, uh, I believe this is, uh, the central message of today’s episode is, uh, how we move through something. It determines how it moves through us. And again, thank you for your candor, your openness, Steve. Um, share the episode out. It, it, there, there’s people that need to hear this and, uh, I, I don’t feel probably as strongly about this as an like for any other episode.

I’ve, I’ve, we always encourage you to share, but sure. If there’s an episode to share, this would be it. Uh, I’ll be putting all of the things that Steve has said offline in the show notes. Yeah, right, right. Credit the actual right hack credit quotes. That’s the, uh, you can always visit our show notes@livingrichly.me slash act, uh, and any of the resources that we put will put there as well, including all links to his social media profiles.

Like all of that’ll be there. Um, Steve, let me also, Anytime you want to talk about anything you’ve been through. I know you got three more guys here who are a hundred percent there for you. Yeah. And you never have to wonder if we’re okay. Thank you. Yeah. Nice. See, that was good. That was good. I’d also say if there’s any listeners who, if you feel like you’re Stuckey, you got nobody.

Yeah. Fire us a note. Yeah. Like, uh, they, listen, we’re we, we can’t solve your problems for you. That’s not what we need to do with each other. But yeah, you’re not alone. And so we, we wanna make sure that we just reinforce that as well. Uh, Steve, when you first, uh, the very first time you talked about you, you described or defined a podcast as basically internet radio.

Uh, so normally this is, uh, the Living Richly podcast, but today it’s, it’s the new version of TIG Gore. It’s, uh, it’s true Guys on the radio. Oh, that’s good. That was good. Yeah. That’s good. Thank you so much for tuning in. Uh, hope you join us for the next episode. Uh, be well.