Overcoming Overperforming – How to be a High Achiever Without Burning Yourself Out

Overcoming Over-Performing

Eric Deschamps:

Get ready for a real and raw conversation about going above and beyond without taking yourself out. That’s coming up next.

Rob Dale:

Hi, and welcome to the Living Rich Lee Podcast, we’re so glad that you’ve joined us again this week, and, we are back with, Kate and Wendy joining us for favorite people. Absolutely joining us for our episode today, and, we’re gonna be talking today about, overperforming and how we can We’ve got a kinda cute little cliche, overcoming, overperforming, and that’s where we’re gonna we’re gonna be talking about. Come up with that? I just made that up on the spot. Thank you, chat GPT. And, we’re gonna be talking today about, maybe some of the practices, some of the principles that we could use, in order to to begin to figure out this whole Overperforming, thing. And now let’s maybe start out by defining what overperforming means to each of us, maybe how it shows up, when that are live. So, I’m gonna I I was about to kinda pick on 1 of you to start, but I’m gonna see if somebody wants to jump in. So what is overperforming For you, and, how does it show up?

Eric Deschamps:

I have no idea. I’ve only read about it in books.

Rob Dale:

When you look up overperforming In the dictionary.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. You have my picture beside it. No. I, I refer to myself. I I say this to my clients all the time that I am An overperformer in recovery. I’m a recovering overperformer. It’s been, going above and beyond, has been both a A strength of mine, and it’s also been at many seasons of my life, in many seasons, an Achilles’ heel, where I only know one speed. And I’m I’m Learning more and more that there are different speeds that one can operate at, but this notion of just always feeling this pressure To give a 100% a 100% of the time, again, can lead to it it’s got a it’s it can lead to great Breakthroughs, I think, and great results, in our lives, but it it comes at a high price.

Kate Beere:

Yeah. I couldn’t agree more. I think for me, it’s The same my whole life. I think there’s a lot of we’re this table’s full of overperformers. It’s I just I didn’t know. I still have not mastered how to not over perform. For me, it’s just it’s my go to. I always you know, you say a 100%, I’m trying to do, like, a 180% on on everything.

Kate Beere:

I think for me, overperforming, I’ve now learned versus high performing, which are are is my differentiator now. Mhmm. Overperforming comes at a Cost to me. Whether that’s my mental health, my physical health, or the people that I love around me some way are Feeling it.

Eric Deschamps:

I love the distinction you just drew there between the difference between overperforming and high performing. I I I I’m sure we’re gonna explain that more.

Rob Dale:

To that.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. That’s great.

Wendy Dodds:

That’s awesome, Kate.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. Thanks. Thanks, Wendy.

Wendy Dodds:

So and it’s funny when you say this whole table is, over performers because and I think for a lot of us, we are Learning to differentiate the difference between overperforming and high performing. I know for me, overperforming has really shown up as a mechanism For me to overcompensate for things I’m trying to avoid in my life. Mhmm. You know Wow. What yeah. Personal things, things that I want to procrastinate on, things I don’t wanna deal with, things that I just wanna slide under the rug and pretend never happened. And so I will use overperforming as a way to distract myself, and and use that overcompensating as a As a tool, an unhealthy tool.

Eric Deschamps:

Right. Well, it’s it’s, it’s like we’ve talked about in so many other episodes of the show where we are avoiding dealing with ourselves or dealing with or dealing with important things in our lives, that perhaps scare us, frighten us, make us feel uncomfortable, so we throw ourselves into what we feel very comfortable doing, Whether it’s healthy or not for us in the long run, we we we throw ourselves into that stuff to make ourselves it’s almost like we’re self medicating with the busyness and the and the pressure and the Dress almost like we get addicted to it.

Rob Dale:

We we laugh sometimes. We’ll, one of us will text. You know, in the morning, we’ll be like, oh, I’ve gotta get this, This, this, and this done. It’s so critical that I get these things done, and so then we’ll be taxing later in the in the day. Hey. What are you up to? Oh, I just re reorganized the garage. I just did that. It’s like everything we could do to avoid the things that are Are are a bit more uncomfortable.

Rob Dale:

It’s like, yeah. I do really. Oh, yeah. So

Eric Deschamps:

Organize a garage. I’ll take that over dealing with my

Rob Dale:

shit any day. Any day.

Eric Deschamps:

Any day. All all week long.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. I I know for me, over, performing, Fits really well into a topic we just covered not that long ago, and that’s the people pleasing. That the overcoming, the overperforming for me wasn’t, it doesn’t come out of a of a of an internal drive to, you know, to to I have to get this done. I it has to be the best, everything like that. It it comes out of this drive to keep other people happy, to make sure everybody’s, you know, that everybody’s pleased with me, all of that stuff. And so I will go above and beyond at my own burnout, because I want someone else to say, boy, you did a great job with that. And it’s Be happy with me, and it it stems out of that kind of a background.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. We can so relate. Just so relate. You know, the we we talked also in the episode that followed that one about boundaries.

Rob Dale:

Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:

And without boundaries, right, when we don’t know where one thing starts, ends and another thing starts, Then we get lost in the shuffle. And if you have overperforming tendencies, if that is your kinda default setting, any request made of you, feels like tremendous pressure to deliver. And I know for me, the idea is it’s gotta be the best. Everything it’s like, I I say it this way, and I I tell my clients this all the time and it’s more reminder to myself That you don’t have to give a 100% a 100% of the time, that that’s actually not even possible without some, putting tremendous Stress on yourself. Right? So something I’m still learning is, again, that learning how to throttle my life a little bit

Rob Dale:

more, meaningfully. Yeah. Absolutely. You redline a car The entire time you’re driving down the Queensway, let’s say, and you’re heading on a 3 hour drive and you’re redlining the entire time

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah.

Rob Dale:

You’re not getting 20 minutes down the highway. You’re not you’re not interested.

Eric Deschamps:

You’re talking to a guy who, I remember, a few vehicles back. I had a vehicle that, the engine light was on for 4 months before I brought it into the garage. Okay. I I’m the guy that, like, will run the tank to go. I wonder if I can go another 20 k, right on an empty tank. I wonder how far this thing will go. And for some people, just the idea of doing that gives them

Rob Dale:

stress to look

Wendy Dodds:

for my stress just thinking

Eric Deschamps:

about it.

Rob Dale:

Right. My

Wendy Dodds:

My heart is beating.

Rob Dale:

I think the gas is going bad. The gas takes up 3 quarters full. We better get to the gas station. Right? Right?

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. But but let’s Draw the distinction. Again, I loved how you introduced that. I’d never even considered that until this moment when you said, I’m trying to learn the difference between Overperforming and high performing. Because I think, there is a great there is a great value in being someone who is passionate, Dedicated, wants to serve, wants to make an impact, I think, and and perform at a high level, But but there’s obviously a distinction there between overperforming. How do you see the difference? How do you know when you’re in one

Wendy Dodds:

arena?

Kate Beere:

Great question. I know for me now, it’s, Like I just mentioned, it’s the how it shows up for me. Like, something is not right. So I’m either physically getting sick. I’m overperforming for 2 like, you can’t over perform Consistently without something going awry. Right. Whether it’s your physical health, your mental health, like I mentioned, or, like, it comes at the expense of your loved ones around you. So I think when Your overperforming is negatively impacting other people or your own well-being.

Kate Beere:

To me, that’s like the cue. Like, that is not I am not like, what am I trying to achieve? What is so fucking important that I have to be here? Right. Like, no one’s holding me here. I’m holding myself here. Yeah. So for me, that balance, like, high performance, I think, is fantastic. I I like, for me, that’s that’s a positive. Right? But the over performance is when It crosses that line, and it’s now coming at a cost.

Eric Deschamps:

Right. Right. It’s detrimental to you. What is, again, who doesn’t want a high performing team member or a high performing team? We talk about this in, our our other business all the time with the leaders that we work with, high performing athletes. I mean, we just had, Ben Bergeron, here recently with us, top one of the top CrossFit coaches, in the world, we had, 3 time Olympian and gold medalist Olivier Jean, speed skater, with us. These are all elite High performers. But even in the world of sport, coaches know that you can overtrain, to a point where now the training is is There you’ve lost the benefit, and now it’s actually detrimental. But knowing where that line is sometimes is difficult.

Eric Deschamps:

What what about for you guys?

Rob Dale:

Yeah. Well, I think, Again, I love that distinction, and we start to my first thought as you were sharing that, Kate, was, that for me, the distinction, I think, between overperforming and And, and high performing is it’s the ultimately, it’s the motive in which why you’re doing it. Mhmm. It comes from that internal motive. And if you could stop and ask that question about motives, you’re able to be able to, you know, usually figure out, am I just high performing here? So living richly, we put a lot of hours into this. We put a lot of our free time into this. It is something that we’re doing daily. We’re we’re leaning into this, But we’re not we’re not burning out over it.

Rob Dale:

We’re not it’s we don’t see it as over. It’s a passion Yeah. That we have, and we’re want To we wanna see this done well, done great. We’re willing to invest that like a high performing athlete who, you know, is gonna be measuring out their Food, they’re gonna be measuring. They everything they they’re up at 5 AM doing, at the gym or at the, you know, in the case of Olivier Jean, At the at the rink, all of this stuff, but it’s driven out of a desire to push themselves to exceed to be successful Versus somebody who’s maybe overperforming is somebody who’s doing it out of a need to be liked, out of a need to be accepted, out of a need to be, validated, whatever those motives are. When those motives are external, you’re probably moving into overperforming versus high performing.

Eric Deschamps:

I think it’s a lot about the fuel. What is fueling your act your actions? What’s fueling your activities? Right? I, recently saw an article, and We’ll post it in the show notes on on the NASA website. And the title or the headline really got me because it says, if you think you’re stressed, try being a rocket. And it talks about the launch of the Artemis Rocket back, last fall, one of the largest rockets ever launched, 350 feet tall. This thing at launch, it weighs about 5,000,000 tons if I remember my math correctly. It needs to create 8,000,000 tons of thrust Just to lift it off of the launching pad, and that’s equivalent. It has to overcome the equivalent of 13 statues of liberty stacked on top of it. And then as it rises, that that 13 turns into 29.

Eric Deschamps:

And everything is shaking, and that rocket is under some tremendous stress, tremendous pressure, But it’s not meant to operate at that except at launch time. And I think for me, the the the challenge, that I’ve had, or during the course of my life Is operating at like, I’m in launch mode Yeah. All the time. And so things start to rattle, things start to come apart. Right? Yeah. The fuel, is designed to get it into orbit, and then it’s a very, very different experience. I think one has to look at what is fueling, my actions.

Wendy Dodds:

Right?

Kate Beere:

Yeah. Yeah. I agree on that. I think for, you know, the overperforming part, I like the way you talked about that because it’s High performance for me is very much about I’m passionate. I’m doing something. I’m excited about it. The over performance is almost always driven by Exterior, like, validation. Right? Right.

Kate Beere:

So we’re we’re so, like, so programmed to think that, You know, your worth is somehow tied to what you do and what you achieve versus who you are. And I think a lot of overperformers are really seeking that external validation From from someone else to be like, okay. How like, this is fantastic. How are you doing all this as a single mom? Wow. Right? Like, it’s that, like, I’m like, oh, yeah. I’m good. Right? Yeah. Really.

Kate Beere:

And I’m like dying on the inside. So but but you the you are seeking some sort of validation somewhere when I think you get into that overperforming piece. Yep.

Wendy Dodds:

And then it also crosses over with how You or or how people then learn how to treat you. Yeah. Because the more you over perform, that becomes such A

Kate Beere:

Oh, so good.

Wendy Dodds:

Expectation on Mhmm. This you know, Wendy will always do more. I don’t need to ask her to do she she just will do it. And then where do you draw that line in the sand? Where then, it kinda goes back to one of the other topics that we recorded. How do you learn to create boundaries? How do you learn to say no? How do you learn to, you know, not overcompensate for whatever it is, whatever conversation or whatever it is you’re trying to avoid, To have that clarity between, am I overperforming, am I high performing, and when is enough enough?

Eric Deschamps:

Right. I it’s so good that you you raised that issue. In, it was Jim Harrington who taught me this concept from, Marie Bowen’s or Bowen’s family systems theory, of this overperforming, underperforming reciprocity. We literally train people how to treat us.

Rob Dale:

Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:

Yep. Right? Think of when you go into Starbucks, right, and you order a coffee. And I for the life of me, although I bought coffee there for years, Venti, grande, what I can never remember what they call it, so I always go in and say, give me a large Americano. And they will gently say always say, oh, you mean a grande? Right. They’re trying to they’re trying to train me on how to do business with them. Problem is I just I refuse to be trained. I’m not a good student when it comes to Starbucks. But we train the people around us all the time how to treat us, and if they’re used to us showing up to your point fully and going Above and beyond, even taking on things that are not our responsibility, what we are encouraging in them is actually under performance, And then we get caught in this cycle.

Eric Deschamps:

Right? I I say this to really capable, strong, high performing leaders all the time That your strength may actually, squelch or or or or squash, the strength of your team Because of how it’s showing up, it may not give them the opportunity to push themselves to a higher level because they’re they know that if if a push comes to shove, You’re gonna jump in and take over.

Kate Beere:

It’s it’s so hard. As a leader, I find it so hard to, like I remember with my team, and they got very used To me stepping in and helping, and I’m like, I’m coaching, and then I’m like, no. You’re doing. You’re doing for them so they don’t they don’t have to do it. But I found it’s very similar to parenting. That’s how I always I don’t know. Leadership and parenting to me go hand in hand. They’re kinda very similar.

Eric Deschamps:

Is leadership.

Kate Beere:

Yeah. I’m like, I it’s like it’s For me to solve it for you, you’re not actually gonna learn how to do it. If I keep tying my kid’s shoes, they’re never gonna learn how to tie their own shoes. Right? So they’re they’re it to me, those are kind of they go together, But I find it very hard sometimes to not just do it. Right. Like, I just wanna take over and do it, and that It is that bit of that over performer, but you’re not giving anyone else, to your point, a chance to learn how to sort of like How you show up is then very, very different. Right? So, yeah, it’s interesting.

Wendy Dodds:

And then then in a work setting, you’re Training people to not think for themselves. You’re training people to not be able to solve problems. For me, I have very much a perfectionist tendency, and I’ve I’ve Been trying to work really hard on that, you know, especially parenting. I mean, my my kids are older now. They’re teenagers. But even when they were younger, You know, they you know, we tell them put your clothes away in the drawer. Well, you know, they’re not gonna put them away the way I want them to.

Rob Dale:

But there It’s a that’s

Eric Deschamps:

a thing. Right? Like, teenagers and chores.

Wendy Dodds:

I

Eric Deschamps:

mean, that’s a thing. Their level of clean, and the job well done is very different

Wendy Dodds:

Right. Or loading the dishwasher. It’s gonna look like a Tetris thing, and that’s not how I would do it, but letting go with it’s done.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:

Right. And it doesn’t have to be because who Who who’s the dishwasher? Like, who am I trying to impress when you make a really nicely organized dishwasher? Nobody.

Eric Deschamps:

The dishwasher gods. The dish

Wendy Dodds:

But using that, like, whether it’s work, whether it’s parenting Yeah. Learning to let go of, it’s maybe not the way I would do it, But it’s

Rob Dale:

done. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:

And you’re teaching people self independence and being able to think for

Rob Dale:

themselves.

Eric Deschamps:

Right. It’s so good.

Rob Dale:

And I think it also this goes into, perhaps Part of the distinction between, overperforming and high performing goes into the notion of work life balance that we like to talk about or people Often we’ll bring up and

Eric Deschamps:

I don’t like that term.

Rob Dale:

No. And and we’ve talked about it even on this show why we think it’s bullshit that the the language of work life balance is is is really not the language to use. It’s it’s the wrong words. It’s the wrong language. But when we think of it in that context, and again, I’m, You’re fleshing this out. I have a right to be wrong. I’m fleshing this out, this notion that tell you. I well, the idea that, It is difficult to burn out as a high performer.

Rob Dale:

It is very easy to burn out as an overperformer. Yeah. I agree. And I think this notion of and that’s part of the symptom or the the the indication. Am I high performing? High performing is not bad. And this idea that, you know, you hear people say all the time, well well, what do you do to relax? Or what do you do to to you you gotta just, You know, why don’t you just sit and binge a TV show? Well, maybe that’s not how I get reenergized. Maybe I get reenergized by die. You know, we talk about it all the time when we’re texting about Creating reels for living richly and doing this stuff.

Rob Dale:

And, you you know, just the other day again, you were learning some stuff and you sent men born of the Are we having fun yet? And I’m like, fuck. Yeah. This is great. Like, this is great. Like, I don’t need time away from I don’t need to rest when I’m doing that. Now I’m not doing it all the time, but when it’s when your passion is in there, it’s hard to burn out when you’re engaged in what you’re passionate about.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. The only I agree with you a 100%. The only caveat to that is, at least for me, is, most of the work I’ve done for most of my adult life have been very passionate about Helping people. Yeah. Right? Even this podcast. I mean, to me, it’s I have the same philosophy I have with my coaching clients where I tell them that it’s my goal that, every conversation we have together is is the most impactful time they will ever have, and we want every single one of these episodes To be impactful, to our audience, to our listeners. So we put our all into it, and and put I put a lot of energy into it. It it Where I’ve struggled over the years is the self care piece wasn’t there.

Eric Deschamps:

And this the well, the radical self acceptance wasn’t there either. Right? I I thought, I remember back in the day and, Rob, you might be familiar with this phrase. Right? It was it was almost held up as a badge of honor. I’d rather burn out than rust out. Right? I as you know the saying really well. And so it was almost like if you were burning yourself out, launching that rocket, but it never actually hits orbit. It just stays in that that that state of Tremendous stress and burning of tremendous amount of fuel, that that somehow that that was noble. So I think you can be passionate about your work, but if You’re missing some of those elements.

Eric Deschamps:

High performer performing athletes know and are trained in self care, in recovery, In getting the right rest, in eating the right food, and doing right. But as in business, that right? It’s not necessarily that’s not our routine, but learning those self care strategies to make sure that you’re filling your tank and not running on fumes all the time, I think, is critical.

Rob Dale:

Maybe where you’re Where we’re supposed to look for balance isn’t in work and life, but exactly what you said. Where the balance comes in is are we implementing the 4 elements that we talk about So often hear, are we engaging in the things that enrich our lives? Are we doing the things that, give us purpose and give us meaning? And And and the more we take on those elements, high performing will not lead to burnout. The being passionate about what you do won’t lead to burnout Because we’re learning all of these other pieces, we’re putting all of them in together, applying all of them together into what we’re doing in the daily life.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. Absolutely.

Wendy Dodds:

And I think it’s about surrounding yourself. So just seeing you 2, just hearing you talk, Rob, seeing you 2 work together, and knowing that you’re both high performers because you’re very passionate about what you do, it’s about finding those right people in your life who Support you and share those passions with you, but who will also be able to call you out and recognize Yep. If you need a day off or time off or, hey. I’m gonna do this. You do, you know, take a rest day or whatever.

Rob Dale:

But you do you.

Kate Beere:

That’s My heart’s saying.

Wendy Dodds:

Yeah. You do you. But but having that recognition where you share that same passion and that same energy and that same fire as to what you’re doing, but you also know each other’s Triggers around. Okay. So you’re not having the best day or you’re, you know, you’re at a 40% today, so I’m gonna take the other 60 Yeah. Make it a 100 and you know? So

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. Yeah. 100%. 100%.

Kate Beere:

Yeah. I think it’s critical. I know when I was in, like, traditional workforce, I would always You know that comparison game, it can get really, really deadly, really fast where, you know, you I would always hang out with the other high performers in my office, which is which is great. Maybe over performers. I don’t know what they were, quite frankly. Could have been over or high. I don’t know, but I was comparing myself to them. And I’m like, well, how do they have And altogether, how are they able to, like, do day care, school drop off, pick up? You know, they’re still very happily married.

Kate Beere:

Their house is, like, perfect. They look pristine when they come to the office. Their lunch is, like, the bento perfectly packaged, and I’m, like, barely, like, sipping my Timmies. Like, maybe have an Egg McMuffin in one hand. But, like, So I think that comparison game sometimes too can lead to overperforming. Right? So you’re trying to hold yourself to a standard, you know, like keeping up with the Joneses. Yeah.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. Yeah. Now you see it in with even with Instagram. Right? It’s Yeah. You’re trying to compare to something that’s not real because what you described with that other person It’s probably somebody who is overperforming. I’ve got this has all gotta look perfect, and and it’s that external, the validation around that. Let’s This can be a bit of a sensitive, but let’s let’s talk about the the differences on how overperforming show up with men and women. Because I do think that there’s significant difference in how it’s how, whether it’s high performing or overperforming, how it’s perceived by others, but perhaps some of the pressures that we feel internally, is there a difference between how, it’s it shows up for men and women?

Eric Deschamps:

That’s a great question.

Kate Beere:

We’re also quiet. Also speechless.

Eric Deschamps:

Great question. What what are your

Rob Dale:

thoughts on that? Yeah. Let me give some thoughts, And then you guys add in into this.

Eric Deschamps:

If you ask a question like that, you gotta step up to the plain answer.

Rob Dale:

And I well, I do have an answer. I have a I have the right answer. I have the correct answer for this. You have a perception. I will give you my answer, and then you can all validate my answer.

Eric Deschamps:

Is this how this works?

Rob Dale:

It’s exactly how Oh, no. I didn’t get that memo. Well, so I do think that certainly professionally, I think, men have it easier. I think that women have, more to prove, that they have to step in and they have to do more whether that’s And I and I and I think it would fall into the overperforming more than the high performing, categories because they can be doing the same level of high performance work as a male, and it’s not recognized the same way. So I think that there’s there’s an element of Huge. Just to get validated, there needs to be more effort that’s done. But then on the on the flip side of that, the criticism, the man who says, yeah, I don’t get to see my family as much because I’m having to work and I’m Constantly focused and I’m doing this. They’re like, oh, you’re providing for your family.

Rob Dale:

You’re making sacrifices good for you. The woman who’s doing that is the neglectful Mother, the neglectful wife. Yeah. And why aren’t you why are you focused so much on your career or your or why even if it’s Passion. Why are you so so focused on this when you should be putting more energy into the home and into a family? Your home has to be pristine. You walk into a A single guy’s, a bachelor’s house, and you expect it to be trash for the most part. Like, no, but you expect Link’s trash. Network has to be trash.

Rob Dale:

No. But you expect their TV

Eric Deschamps:

Like, every every male listener, you are slobs.

Rob Dale:

Okay? Well, that

Eric Deschamps:

That’s the message Rob’s trying to

Rob Dale:

And they’re all agreeing with me because, you know, they’re expecting the TV to be sitting on a milk crate. You’re out there. You’re expecting that the bed is just Gonna be on the floor. Right? You walk into a a woman’s, yeah, a single woman’s home or a single mother’s home, and It’s supposed to be everything is clean and, you know, tidy and everything’s in its right. Like, there is a difference.

Kate Beere:

Everywhere and costumes are There’s live,

Rob Dale:

love, love, love, Got posters on the wall.

Kate Beere:

I actually have 3

Rob Dale:

separate ones. I do. Last. Yeah. You got a blessed bug. Yep. You’re right. And a and a and a thankful.

Rob Dale:

And a thankful. And a thankful. And a

Eric Deschamps:

thankful. So so

Rob Dale:

typical. Question again? Yeah. What? What are we talking

Eric Deschamps:

about? You raise a great point. I think you’re you’re you’re spot on on everything you said, so I will validate your comments. I think it’s true. But, I mean, you guys are living that. What’s it like for you?

Kate Beere:

It’s not.

Rob Dale:

Alright. It is You’re on a podcast. Question then. You’re on a podcast that requires content. I I agree. Time for the

Kate Beere:

no. It is that. I mean, I think for women, we’ve talked about this before on the show, but in the workforce, definitely, I think there’s, You know, women will sort of, you know, strive, do more, try harder. Perceptions are different for women in in the workforce. I think for women just in in general, they’re trying to over perform over perform across the board. So, Rob, to your point, like, I’m trying to do it at work. I’m also trying to do it at home with my live laugh learn posters and my pristine, my candles, and my Skitt’s like, we are, like we are I I think as women, we overpour over over oh, shit.

Rob Dale:

What? Over. Did you just say

Kate Beere:

other porn? There’ll be an edit on

Rob Dale:

the other porn. We’re letting that in. Steve, are you here?

Wendy Dodds:

Don’t edit. We’re gonna Don’t edit

Rob Dale:

That’s that’s That’s the best part of the show.

Kate Beere:

We’re not doing

Wendy Dodds:

that anymore. I think we

Rob Dale:

are. Or a date. Okay. Not that kind of stuff.

Kate Beere:

Yeah. But I think as women, we tend to overperform everywhere. Like, I’m not sure we have a good shutoff valve. We’re like, I’m gonna over perform at work today and not at home. I think, like, they kinda go together.

Rob Dale:

Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:

Yeah. Yeah. It’s it’s almost like we are constantly drinking out of, Fire hydrants rather than garden hoses because now part of it is that’s in our DNA and that’s in our nature. Part of it is the expectations that we create upon ourselves, which is nobody’s fault but our

Rob Dale:

own. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:

Part of it is what we see on social media. Mhmm. Comparing ourselves to a free app Mhmm. That basically tells us how we should look, and then I see it showing up in my daughters right now. Right. How we should, You know, how we should look, how we should act, what we should say, what we should do, why aren’t we doing, you know, more, why aren’t we doing less of this, more of this. And it’s just a it’s like being on a it’s like a hamster being on a wheel just to continue, and there is no end in sight. Right.

Wendy Dodds:

Part of that though is that that self reflection and that self responsibility on, okay, so nobody’s gonna fix that shit for me. How am I gonna be able to define what I’m gonna tolerate and what I’m not gonna tolerate? What’s important? What’s not important maybe right now? And where do I draw that line in the sand? And At the end of the day, who am I trying to impress? If, you know, if my kid’s having a birthday party or I’m having a family celebration, And I don’t have time to go to the store because, God forbid, the napkins don’t match the plates. Yeah. Who am I trying to impress? And one of my mentors years ago said That to me and every time something comes up, I try to remember, okay. So who am I trying to impress? This person? That person? Me? Where does that kind of Great

Eric Deschamps:

question. That’s so good. That is so good. Okay. Well, we talk about expectations, if I could touch on that for a minute. I remember, it was, Sherry, doctor Sherry Kane, who will be on the show in a few weeks. We’ll have a couple of episodes with her. She’s been a major influence, in my life, your life, our all of our lives.

Eric Deschamps:

And, really, actually, we you could say that in many ways, her and Jim Harrington, kind of almost inspired this whole thing, alright, because of the of the change and the transformation in our lives. But she she used to ask me a question, and she still does on a regular basis. You know, Eric, are your expectations in line with reality? And usually, my response to that my first response is, Fuck you. Right? And then I I have to second guess myself or or or look at myself and say, are they? Am I am I holding myself to a standard to your point? That is impossible. I think management of expectations is something only we can do for ourselves. The 2nd piece that’s become very, real for me and, a guideline for me is I also can only the only person who can manage my energy is me. So one, am I setting expectations that are too high, that are creating stress and and then trigger all these overperforming tendencies to kick in, and have to be conscious that I have a limited reservoir part of energy. And that I can’t operate as though that doesn’t run out ever.

Eric Deschamps:

So management of expectations, management of energy for me has been, a big part of of staying within that high performance I don’t I don’t wanna be a a a low performer. I mean, it’s It’s been said, you know, that, nothing great ever happens in the comfort zone. Right? Nothing, world changing or impactful or Or influential, ever happens, done with mediocrity. It’s usually it’s greatness. It’s excellence. To borrow Ben’s language, chasing excellence. But it’s learning to, again, throttle it back to a place of high performance that’s healthy versus over performance, that leaves you like a hollow

Rob Dale:

shell. Alright. Let’s get real.

Eric Deschamps:

Let’s share some We weren’t real

Rob Dale:

already? Let’s share some stories. We’re gonna get personal. How about that is, that’s a better word. So, let’s let’s share some stories. For tuning in. We’ll see you next

Eric Deschamps:

week on the limit.

Rob Dale:

Oh, Share a personal, time when you, fell victim to overperforming. And I hesitate to actually use that language even as I as it Kinda came out of my mouth. Is it fall victim? Because it’s a choice. Overperforming is a choice. It’s you’re not a victim of it. It’s a choice that you make. So a time in your life where you you made the choice for whatever the reasons where you were overperforming and, and it and it Caused something. It led to something and and a breakthrough moment, if you will.

Rob Dale:

And and I’ll start I’ll share quickly a a story. I the the first thought that came to mind when it came to because it was one of the most significant moments even though it took 5 years to play itself out after the moment happened. Mhmm. But a significant moment was, back in my church days when I was still pastoring, I was pastoring Bikers Church. Bikers Church was, is one of the fastest growing churches, was incredibly significant. We are starting to We are one of the 1st churches to you, to go virtual with our to to to go on, online with our services. We are getting an audience from around the world. We had just Started meeting at, your church, the one that you were pastoring, that you had just resigned.

Rob Dale:

Well, you weren’t hadn’t resigned yet, but we’re about to come into the building that you were in, then you resigned. They asked me to fill in as the interim pastor while they were hiring a new pastor, and I’m basically at that point and I said yes, and I’m pastoring 2 churches. I’m working every single day of the week because these are both churches that at the time, your church was a church that was a group was a strong healthy church, But was now going through transition of their founding leader leaving, and just all the dynamic of that. The amount of energy and the time, and I came to a point of real burnout where After they found the new the the full time pastor, I remember saying, I need a break. I need to either quit everything. They put me on a 3 month sabbatical, and I took a 3 month sabbatical. And that’s when I did my 2008 road trip.

Eric Deschamps:

Right. I remember that story.

Rob Dale:

My motorcycle, and I got away. And I Share this in my story in, episode 4. 4. I share this in episode 4 where as I’m doing on this road trip, that’s when these moments came where I realized I had to make a change in my life. I couldn’t continue to do this. And I realized that 90% of what I was doing was to get that Well done. The accolades, the look at you. You are the rock star.

Rob Dale:

You’re the superstar. We’ve used

Eric Deschamps:

this phrase before. It was the it was living under the pressure of Dance monkey dance.

Rob Dale:

It was it was exactly that. I was I was doing everything for everyone else, but felt completely empty, And I realized something’s gotta change. Now it took 5 years for that thing to change, but it was in that moment that I knew I couldn’t continue at this stage. Yeah. Uh-huh. What about for you guys? Something that a story of overperforming that led to a moment in your life?

Wendy Dodds:

Well, 2 very quick stories, and 1 was a, an moment like, holy shit, what now? And the other was a A really good breakthrough. So first one really quickly, spent 18 year. I shared a little bit about this in my story. On the corporate side in human resources, Worked so much. And just speaking as to what we talked about earlier

Rob Dale:

Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:

In the corporate setting, as a female, really trying to climb that corporate ladder, Do more, be more, support more, help more. If I just do this, then I’ll get here. If I anyways, all that to say, we went Through a big restructuring, we knew it was gonna happen and always in the back of my head, not to like, the that it was to sound conceded, but it was, well, they can’t get rid of me. Like, look at all the good I’ve done for this organization. Look at all the executives I’ve supported, all the businesses I’ve supported, and, yeah, they got they got rid of me. So But because I was in such a stage of overperforming and working and doing, and my kids were small at the time and I was always in the office, That then led to that breakthrough of okay. So now I really start to understand how that wasn’t serving me. Then my 2nd quick story, moving into competing in fitness.

Wendy Dodds:

High performing, not overperforming, But high performing, but also at the displeasure of many people in my life. Right. Had some great support, some not so great support, Continue to high perform because it was a passion of mine and then led to a breakthrough of where I am today with being able to help people in that space.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. What a difference. Right? Again, the how it plays out. I, I I remember there’s a phrase that we often use, and it’s been used I I remember, again, held as a badge of honor. We talk about, oh, that person’s really driven. Yeah. Yeah. Right? And, and for years, I would say I wanna be that driven individual.

Eric Deschamps:

And it was a few years back and it came it was in a conversation with a client after I had done some reflection on it and kinda had an moment. I said, when you think of that term again, I think in the hustle culture, that that term would be very popular. Today’s modern business culture, I think that term, like, we almost, we wanna be that driven individual. But when you think of the word driven, driven is a passive state. Something else is in control. Something else is behind the wheel steering, accelerating, braking. A car doesn’t decide where it’s gonna go all on its own. It is it is a tool that is used.

Rob Dale:

Yet. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It’s coming.

Eric Deschamps:

Alright. Elon will

Rob Dale:

figure it out. Right?

Eric Deschamps:

But there’s this notion of, again, am I in control of my life? Right? Am I actually behind the steering wheel? What we talked about fuel earlier, but who’s behind the steering wheel? It’s okay to be ambitious. It’s okay to be Driven if you at least understand what’s actually driving your behavior, but for so long, I didn’t understand it. And it would take 3 burnouts for me, and it was the last burnout that led to a significant breakthrough where I went and spent a week with doctor Sherry, in Pennsylvania. And that I had started some work before that, but that was a breakthrough moment to say, I have to change, the way I’d and it was that was back in 2017, and it wasn’t until 2021 that that work landed, and I began to experience some significant difference. And I wanna say this Because I get this question a lot from leaders. How do I know when I’m burnt out? If you’re asking the question, you’re probably already there or you’re on the verge of it. Pay attention to that. Don’t keep doubling down on what you’re doing.

Eric Deschamps:

It’s it’s only gonna harm you further. Take action. Get some help. You don’t have to do it this way.

Rob Dale:

I mean, so good.

Kate Beere:

I think sorry. You know, I was gonna say for me, Overperforming has always served me, and that’s the problem. Yeah. That’s my challenge is, you know, I would say the last 2 years figuring out That’s the learning for me has been high perform for I can’t say that word today. High performance. And over performance is just I’ve it’s always served me. I’ve always gotten promoted. I’ve always gotten the job.

Kate Beere:

I’ve always been recognized. It’s always Been what’s kind of filled my cup and filled me on that worthiness that that for me, that’s the challenge, and the expense of it was irrelevant. Right. Until, you know, the last few years where, like, even, you know, just all the anxiety, and I talk about in my story a little bit, just all the the trauma in my life, and it just it creeped up So high to the point where I was too full. So overperforming was no longer an option because there was no room.

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Kate Beere:

And so I’m physically getting ill. But it it took that For me to be able to even recognize, oh, maybe I don’t need to, like, be at a 180 all time. Maybe I can be at a 100 even Yeah. And be high performing and not have it come at a cost. But for me, it has always served me, and that’s been my biggest challenge.

Rob Dale:

So it’s interesting, because I heard this shared a little bit in in in some of your stories there. Maybe let’s talk about The importance of our community and how our community supports us in that understanding of Burnout of overperforming of high performance. You made reference to it how you had summoned around you that were, not support we’re critical. Others around you, you can have others around you that were very positive, but in a different way. What’s what’s the role? We we talk So often about the importance of community. Ben, last week in his, episode shared, it very much Told the story of the power of community within the prison system, you know, which is such an interesting thing.

Eric Deschamps:

So what listen to that one, you wanna listen

Rob Dale:

to that. Yeah. So what what Role does our community play in helping us to identify the difference between high and over Performing. And, what role do they play in maybe leading us or guiding us? Open that up. What do you think?

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. I think it’s critical. I think, you know, we we say often, you know, we to quote Ken Blanchard, feedback is the breakfast of champions. And, if you’re operating in, in a vacuum, if you’re or in isolation, right, it’s very hard, for, anyone to really have Perspective on where they’re truly at. It’s it’s so helpful to have outside feedback. Now that’s always better when it’s been invited, by trusted people. I I think when we we may give well meaning feedback to someone, but if we don’t have the relationship or we don’t have the trust, it may come across a very different way. Right? So, but, yeah, I agree.

Eric Deschamps:

I think, especially the folks that know you, that that love you, that are closest to you, When they see you begin to, vibrate at a unhealthy rate, can help dial you back down, can remind you of the commitments you’ve made To reach your full potential and chase excellence and live your best life again, this show is not about us discouraging high performance at all. I think I think there’s a lot of folks perhaps watching this, this episode that might need, a bit of a kick in the pants to say, get off the couch and go live your life. Like, there’s more to life than just The average ho mediocre, trance that so much of the the population is in. Our our goal today is to speak to those people that, are are just throttling it too high, too long, too often, but I agree. Your community can be such a a a safe place, and bring such encouragement and call you on your shit when you need to be called on your shit.

Wendy Dodds:

And I think communicating that Yeah. And being very open about whoever’s in your life. So you do a great job of this, and some close friends do a great job of this. I have had to be very vocal about here what some of my triggers are. Here are the signs that I start to exhibit when I am When my cup is starting to become very depleted, even though I subconsciously sort of know it, I don’t wanna deal with it because I love work. I love what I do. I have such a passion for it. But I also will trust when you speak up That that is my sign to take a step back, not get defensive, and recognize I have communicated.

Wendy Dodds:

I need you to tell me what my When you start to see me exhibiting signs triggers, this is your cue even though I might not like it to be able to share and and, You know, be okay with myself that it’s not something you’re gonna wanna hear, but oftentimes, it’s the things that we don’t wanna hear that helps us become the people that we wanna

Eric Deschamps:

be. Right.

Rob Dale:

Well, it’s giving and and I like what you said at the beginning there too about, we have to give permission Yeah. To our community to do that. Right? Yeah. Yes. Your trusted advisers. And I I’m not interested in somebody walking down the street giving me their opinion about anything really. Right? But certainly, I’m not interested in them giving the opinion about how I’m performing Even if I’m at the gym, right, the last thing I need when I’m at the gym is some Yahoo who’s working out beside me to turn and wanna

Eric Deschamps:

correct me. Is bad, or

Rob Dale:

you need to do it this way. It’s like, you know, just You do your thing, and and don’t worry about me. Yeah. Trusted advisers, I’ve given permission. Hey. I want I you have. And, Eric, you know, you and I have had these conversations together. You have permission Yeah.

Rob Dale:

To say, Rob, I’m seeing something here. I wanna challenge that. Of course, more than anyone else, Wendy has that permission to be able to do that and and vice versa. We’ve had those conversations, and it’s Fucking uncomfortable in the moment. There have been times where I’ve said, I’ll say to Wendy, hey. I’m I’m concerned. I see this. I’m seeing some of these flags.

Rob Dale:

And, yeah, her often, the first reaction can be I’m fine. Yeah. You’re cool. Right? Leave me alone. What? Yeah. That’s still your god, missus. Yeah. Exactly.

Rob Dale:

I just need to do this. Stop stop stop nagging me. Right? No. She never she doesn’t do that. She just gives me a lot.

Eric Deschamps:

She thinks it.

Rob Dale:

Oh, no. She thinks she does. She gives me a lot. One thing listen. Just a little a tip here.

Wendy Dodds:

Oh, dear.

Rob Dale:

If you’re ever playing poker, don’t play poker with her on your team. You don’t want to take the game. Poker face, Nope. There’s no further ado. Yeah. So, but but, yeah. Noted. It can be uncomfortable in the moment, but that’s where the relationship has to be Trustworthy enough that as the one giving the feedback, I’m prepared to hurt the relationship short term to protect Somebody who I care about.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. I think that’s so good. What if we shifted? I’d like just to just as we are preparing to wind down today’s show, What are what are some tactics, some some, rituals, some practices that have really been helpful for you encountering This these overperforming tendencies that are unhealthy. What are some of the things that you’re doing different these days than perhaps in the past?

Kate Beere:

I think for me, it’s 1 something I read and that we’ve read. Mhmm. And it’s that your productivity is not tied to your worth. And that statement grounds me in to not over perform. Right. My productivity, what I do in a day Doesn’t make me worthy of love. It doesn’t make me worthy of anything. It’s just being productive.

Kate Beere:

So that for me is is sort of like an I am statement and affirmation that I use To help ground me when I feel like I’m getting to that. Okay, Kate. You’re worth this not taught you project. You’re worth this not taught you. And I say it over and over again, but it’s a reminder for me where I’m like like, to your point, Who am I doing this for?

Eric Deschamps:

Yep. Right. Right. What’s what’s the

Rob Dale:

fuel? Right?

Wendy Dodds:

Yeah. Exactly. That you mentioned the word affirmation.

Kate Beere:

Because I will say this.

Wendy Dodds:

I have a lot of, clients that have said, oh, I’ve heard all the whole journaling and affirmation bullshit, and it’s so fluffy, but your mind listens to everything you tell it. Absolutely. So And we are master storytellers in our head, and we often choose to listen to the, things that maybe we shouldn’t be I see you too. Yeah. So I love that you said that you use that as an affirmation because if anybody’s looking for something to kinda tie into their day to day ritual or their day to day routines, It’s those simple statements like that that over time, right, your mind is like a muscle, and it starts to become very conditioned to remembering that. So I I just love But you

Rob Dale:

know that.

Eric Deschamps:

That is so good. Ben Ben, do you talk about being a, storyteller? We are master storytellers, and Ben brought it out in the last episode that what a story teller Teller does often is create drama. And so when when our mindset is off, when we’re our beliefs are off, then we’re creating unnecessary drama in our lives. So the importance I actually have, and this is more recent. It was interesting, with the launch of this podcast and a lot of exciting things that are coming later this year into 2 2024, I’m in full we’re in full launch mode. And and part of I’m just jazzed by it, but I also am very aware that my overperforming tendencies are being Triggered constantly. So to the point where I’ve come up with a list of easy does it affirmations. That’s what I actually call them.

Eric Deschamps:

And part of it is asking myself, what’s driving me? Why am I pushing myself here? Is it passion? Is it purpose? Yeah. Or is it pride or a point to prove? And I have a series of them, and we’ll all I’m happy to actually post them in the show notes if they’re helpful for people, but a number of questions just to ask myself to To kinda ground myself, say, what’s actually fueling me right now? And if it’s bad fuel, if it’s toxic fuel, okay. Alright. I’ve been running on bad fuel. Let’s make a change. Because even a car can run on bad fuel for a while.

Rob Dale:

Right.

Eric Deschamps:

Right? But you don’t wanna be running it on it long term.

Rob Dale:

I love that. I think for me, one of the things that I’ve learned to do is embrace the reset. Oh, I love that. And this notion of soul

Eric Deschamps:

formation up with that.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. You know, Eric, I just trademarked it. Steve, what’s

Eric Deschamps:

the reset.com has just been registered on the Internet.

Rob Dale:

Hey, Steve. You here? Hey. Hey. I’ve done that a while. You know? Embrace the reset. For me, Getting out so doing their this is where you go back to the rituals that that give you energy. If I can get out on the water Or if I can jump on a you will go out on a a for a a bicycle get on bicycles, go for a ride, or go for a walk, or sit and read a book. If in those moments, I’m completely consumed with this other thing, then that’s a great sign that there’s that’s the warning light.

Rob Dale:

Right? If I can engage in my rituals and have that put aside no matter how passionate I am about that, whatever that thing is, I’m probably more in the high performance area, and that’s okay because I’m able to make that shift.

Eric Deschamps:

And so it’s

Rob Dale:

a great it’s a great way for me to just kinda go, okay. It’s time to Test where what’s where am I on this? Can I embrace a reset? Alright. Now I can jump back in again, and and I think that’s With Living Rich, we can go nuts, with stuff. We can go crazy. Today’s you know, when we record episodes, you know, behind the scenes here, we do A bunch of episodes all at once is how we record them. We’re tired by the end of the day, but we could then the next day, we could be like, okay. Now we’re good to do nothing. Right? We can we can embrace the reset on those things.

Eric Deschamps:

I love that. Absolutely love

Rob Dale:

that.

Wendy Dodds:

And I think for me, it’s just, taking it down to basics Every night, I write down my daily intentions that I wanna do the next day. And Rob knows because I’ll pull up my little book, And I don’t wanna talk or do any read anything until I have those down. And all those intentions are are anywhere from 3 to 5 things that I would like to get done the next day. And they could be very small. In fact, they usually are very small because I have great satisfaction of Crossing checking the exam. There’s something about that that is just very

Eric Deschamps:

satisfying.

Wendy Dodds:

Yeah. But it allows me to keep myself in check where I don’t need to complete a 150 things, but if I can get these 3 things done, then I feel like that is a 100% day for me. Yeah. So And I find putting that pen to paper and so that I know I have a game plan in in the morning when I already know what I wanna do and I feel like I don’t need to take on the entire world, I find that Super helpful. Love it.

Eric Deschamps:

That all of that is so great. Let’s, alright. Last final round, real quick. Word of advice to the overperformers that are listening, to today’s show, you’re gonna look right into your camera, and you’re gonna speak to them directly. What do you want to say to them? Hi.

Rob Dale:

Your worth is not wrapped up in your doing. And the moment we can realize that, that we embrace our worth, again, this radical self acceptance is the start To breaking the habit of overperforming. Love that.

Wendy Dodds:

I would say you are the only one that has complete Control over what you decide to say yes to, what you decide to take on, and how you choose To, place your energy and where that goes. You are the only one that has control over

Rob Dale:

that.

Kate Beere:

Yeah. And I’m gonna Leverage what you said, Wendy, but ask yourself the question, who are you doing this for? I think that’s so critical. Really sink into and think on it. Is this for you? Am I doing this for someone else? I think at the end of the day, if you can ask yourself Question and answer it. You’ll probably be able to to figure out if you’re in that overperforming or high performing.

Eric Deschamps:

So good. I I would say that, life is too short to leave any potential on the table. Right? You you’ve got an opportunity to live a full life, A rich life, but you won’t find it in mediocrity. You won’t find it in average, but you also won’t find it in overperforming. Do you wanna have 10 years of potential, or do you wanna have a lifetime of potential? And if you’re gonna do that, you’re gonna have to pace yourself. High performers take care of themselves. Make sure you’re taking care of you.

Rob Dale:

I wanna thank you so much for taking the time to listen in on, this episode. And, I Wanna ask you a couple of things, invite you to do a couple of things. We haven’t done this in a while. We would love you to share with us or just send us a note With some questions, some topic ideas that you would love to see us covered, cover in a a future episode. And so if you have a moment to be able to just do that, We’ll have the, the the email address info at living richly dot me. You can send that information there. And, any questions, any comments that you have, we would appreciate you doing that. Make sure you go to our website, living richly dot me slash act, and you will find the show notes.

Rob Dale:

You’ll find the questions that Eric mentioned, that he asks himself As well as some of the other resources that we have for this episode.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. And make sure to like, share, and subscribe to the show so you don’t miss anything coming up. There’s gonna be a lot of exciting things coming your way later this fall and into 2024, so you don’t wanna miss all of that good news. And, again, thank you for joining us today, folks. We are so, grateful that you’re tuning in every week. We hope you’re finding these conversations impactful. We’ll see you next week. Until then, get out there and live your best life.

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