Moving Through Grief & Loss with Don Lachance pt. 2

Moving Through Grief and Loss with Don Lachance

Rob Dale:
Hi, and welcome to the Living Rich podcast. So glad that you are able to join us, again this week. And, for the first time, I think, in our, Living Rich Lee’s podcast history. Yeah. We are having a guest back to talk about their subject again because we just simply couldn’t cover it all in 1 episode. And and so it’s great to have Dawn Lachance back with us again this week. And I I just wanna right out of the gate, you talked all last, uh-uh, week with us about, grief and some of the challenges that we have when it comes to to expressing grief, to leaning into and learning grief. Why is this such a compelling topic?

Don Lachance:
Because grief and loss affects everybody.

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm. Right.

Don Lachance:
And we’ve been so conditioned to not deal with it. There’s so much to unpack when you do begin to dabble in, Like the emotional turmoil that surfaces when you experience grief or any form of loss in the intangible formats.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
So, Don, you’re a grief and loss specialist, and that’s the the reason why we’ve had you on, again for a 2nd week to look into this. And it is interesting because grief is one of those topics that people don’t like to talk about

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Rob Dale:
Until they start.

Eric Deschamps:
And then and why don’t we just come right at it? We had a conversation just as we were Setting up today and getting ready to go, we’ve talked about the stages of grief because that’s certainly what I’ve been told and and what I’ve grown up Understanding there were specific stages that you walk through, and, and yet you had a pretty interesting spin on that. So We’re gonna be debunking a lot of myths today. I think, part of transformation is changing people’s mindset, and, we wanna come at some of the, I think the falsehoods or the misunderstandings people have about loss and grief, but stages of grief. What do you think? Well,

Don Lachance:
I don’t really. I I look at it as just A a really comfortable way for people to compartmentalize, emotional turmoil because we’re so accustomed to not dealing with anything. And when you peel back the curtain and you look at what the stages that, Elizabeth Kubler Ross, that was all of her work. It was, really geared towards people who were being diagnosed with a terminal illness. And so I understand the emotional angst that surfaces with that. So I can understand, denial coming into play, anger, wanting to barter, and not that we don’t experience any of those emotions When we do experience loss or grief, but they certainly aren’t a a convenient way or a good way through any of the turmoil Right. That we’re battling to not experience because here on the denial front, if you have a wife, a mother, a husband, a a sibling Die? How are you gonna deny that?

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right.

Don Lachance:
You can’t. Right. You can’t. Right? Yet when I’m diagnosed with a terminal illness, There’s a part of me that doesn’t wanna go there, and the denial element can can play a significant role. Right. Now all of a sudden, I’ve got a pathway that’s allowing me to compartmentalize everything and move through things comfortably. And grief and loss, gentlemen, is the farthest thing from comfort.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. No kidding. And and it I I I heard, today, actually, just this morning, on a podcast, they were talking about grief. And, I talk about we often talk about grief and loss as the loss of a loved one, someone who passes away. And that certainly is On a major expression of it that, most people have been touched by in one way or another. Mhmm.

Rob Dale:
But

Eric Deschamps:
it can also be the loss

Don Lachance:
of the life you wished you would have had. Absolutely.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? It can be the we talked about this on the on the 1st episode. So what I’m hearing you say is they’re not

Rob Dale:
That was the episode. That was the podcast you were listening to.

Eric Deschamps:
That was I was listening listening to the last conference.

Rob Dale:
All All of us

Don Lachance:
I do like to be on the show.

Eric Deschamps:
No. But the, that that there’s they’re not really stages so much as as emotions, that people experience. Because I I know folks that, with the stages, using that model, so many feel now I’m doing grief wrong. Because I’m supposed to be here Yeah. And I’m experiencing this. Yeah. So I’ve heard it explained well. They’re not necessarily linear.

Eric Deschamps:
But I think the whole concept of the stages is possibly what’s messing things up for people.

Don Lachance:
Well, it it can because you’re you’re not Focused on dealing with what’s really surfacing. Mhmm. You’re looking for, something that you’re trying to fit into a category. Right. And, Like, how uncomfortable can that be

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
When you’re not skilled at it to begin with? Like and and everything, you know, everything about The the grief element and the loss elements, that that’s the hardest thing for a lot of people to come to terms with when we talk about The different forms of loss, like the intangible losses that we experience, things like loss of innocence, loss of self worth, loss of value, And and the list goes on and on and on. That’s grief. Mhmm. You’re Right. You’re grieving. Right. But we don’t really want to attribute it to that because We haven’t lost anybody close to us. There hasn’t been a debt.

Rob Dale:
It it’s almost like, the when you kinda Put them into these categories and you compartmentalize grief, you take out the personal experience of it. Right? Grief is such a personal thing. It’s hard to define because how you grieve and how I grieve, there’s gonna be some similarities. There’s gonna be lots of differences based on all kinds of, elements, to that. Would would you agree with that?

Don Lachance:
Well, yeah. I I would because we’re experiencing that emotional turmoil. How we deal with it are Completely different. Yes. Because every relationship on the face of the planet is 100% unique. So identical twins who lose a parent? 1 twin can’t say to the other, I know how you feel. Right. Because the relationship with the person pot who’s no longer there was completely different.

Don Lachance:
100% unique. And and those are the things. So how do you You know? Where where do you begin to even even look?

Eric Deschamps:
So I was talking to a 76 year old farmer yesterday, Brand new client of mine, who’s in the final stages of looking to take his his, like, retire Take his retirement, looking to exit from the farm and everything else, but he has never invested in, his life. All he’s done is work hard and farm. And So I was talking to him about the need to start defining what it is that matters to you and, what’s important. Start designing a life outside of work because we know most people when they retire and they haven’t done that, it doesn’t take them long before they start to lose their minds. Like, they they have no sense of purpose anymore because they’ve only defined themselves one way. And I had the conversation with them about you’re going to grieve this stage of your life. You’re opening a new chapter. When you finally Close that chapter, start a new one.

Eric Deschamps:
There will be this, this loss that you will experience. Is that something you’ve seen

Don Lachance:
as well? Absolutely. Like, The end of any relationship causes grief. We experience loss. Right. So, you know, it it it’s not always in death. It’s not always in, an emotional angst. It it’s not always about that. 76 years of him farming, and he’s gonna wake up tomorrow because he’s decided to stop that.

Don Lachance:
And where does his day begin? Mhmm. Right. Where is he? He’s at a complete loss. And what’s he sitting with? The discomfort of that. No longer my routine. That is over. The relationship with who he was Right. Is over.

Don Lachance:
Right. It’s not because he’s gonna wanna keep clinging to it. Well, I’ll just do this today or I’ll just do that today, And never really begins to accept the identity that’s surfacing in regards to who he truly is. Right.

Rob Dale:
It’s interesting. I don’t know if, if this is and maybe you you’ve done the research on this because I, I’ve I just recall here, there was a stats of Whatever the number is, but people who’d pass away shortly after retiring. And I don’t know if there’s an accuracy around that that it that they’ve Recorded some stats. We’ll have to do some research on it, but the notion of and it’s probably exactly that is they because they don’t grieve that they don’t Figure that stuff out that all of a sudden they don’t wake up with they don’t know what to do the next day, and they’re lost. And many of them, don’t survive, years, for many years after.

Eric Deschamps:
But I love I love the redefinition of loss that it’s Oh,

Rob Dale:
it’s so good.

Eric Deschamps:
That it’s not just yes. Absolutely. Death is a loss there, right, when we lose someone close to us. I remember losing my dad in 2008, and that really shook me, in a in a pretty powerful way. For a while, not very powerful. It was it was actually quite damaging. I didn’t deal with it very well. Didn’t know how to process that properly.

Eric Deschamps:
Made some decisions that I would end up regretting. Right? But you you learn from it none nonetheless. But redefining it As the loss of anything meaningful that is no longer part of your life.

Don Lachance:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? So whether that’s a relationship with your career, a relationship with A friendship that that that for some reason or another just and it was it Henry Cloud who wrote the book, Necessary Endings? I know the title. I’m I’m struggling with the author.

Rob Dale:
We’ll put

Eric Deschamps:
the we’ll put the book in there in

Rob Dale:
the show notes.

Eric Deschamps:
But necessary endings. He talks about how we struggle with that As human beings, the end of things, we have such a hard time with it, because we want it to continue. We don’t want it to end because, well, I think we get comfortable.

Don Lachance:
Well, yeah. Like, we we get comfortable because we’re not having to deal with it. Right. You know, we park it. We always wanna push it aside. Yeah. And so, You know, it’s interesting. You used the term while you were describing some of that, and the term is process because We we have an evidence based process that comes out of the institute for walking people through that.

Don Lachance:
You know? When I meet with With with people for the very first time, I apologize upfront that, like, you are going to find me intrusive, but I guarantee them in the same breath that they will never Find me invasive.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm. That’s a great way

Eric Deschamps:
to play powerful. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
You know? Powerful. Because my purpose in somebody experiencing the depth of their loss, the depth of their grief, is all based on asking questions.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Right. I probe. And, you know, I’ve I’ve talked about this, and I think I mentioned it on the on the last, series when we when we when I was in here the last time That I hear what people say, but I listen for what they don’t. Yes. Right. Because that provides you with a much deeper, level of questions

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Ask that connects them to their pain. Yeah. Because when when people turn to us, and when I say us, I’m referring to specialists that come out of the institute. It’s usually because of an event that’s occurred that’s undeniable. Right. Right? And and they turn. They’re looking for help. We get, like, the the the pleasure of letting them know that it was really the proverbial straw that broke the camel’s back.

Don Lachance:
That what you’re dealing with is a lifetime of loss. Right? And that’s sobering for people Yeah. Because Part of the process we walk them through is taking them. If you wanna get into the process now Yeah. Are you comfortable doing that?

Eric Deschamps:
Totally. Absolutely.

Don Lachance:
When when when we look at that, You take somebody back to dawn of conscious memory. Holy crap. Like

Rob Dale:
Sorry. Say that one again.

Don Lachance:
Well, you take somebody back to their dawn of conscious memory.

Rob Dale:
Conscious memory.

Eric Deschamps:
Okay. Not not Don LaChanze.

Don Lachance:
Not Don LaChanze. Not Don of a okay.

Eric Deschamps:
Not not the Grandpa of the dawn of the of disasters.

Don Lachance:
W king of c AM.

Eric Deschamps:
No. The dawn of consciousness.

Don Lachance:
You think about that.

Eric Deschamps:
So when you not worth that. Why are you doing? When I was I really do apologize to

Don Lachance:
all the Living Rich Lee No. Don’t. Be go ahead.

Rob Dale:
I was feeling

Eric Deschamps:
uncomfortable, so I defaulted to humor.

Rob Dale:
All done.

Don Lachance:
Which which is common. Right?

Eric Deschamps:
Alright. But I never But

Don Lachance:
when you think about that, when when you take somebody back to their dawn of conscious memory, and I say that because When I did my work, my first memory of a lost based event was me tethered to a tree on King Edward. And the reason I remembered being tethered to the tree was my dog was leashed to the front porch, and I couldn’t reach my dog, and he couldn’t reach me. Here I was, like, 2a half maybe tethered to a tree experiencing loss of freedom. Yeah. Loss of choice.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Not that I was cognizant of any of that.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Don Lachance:
But that’s what’s going on in my psyche. Yeah. And we go through life experiencing all of those events. And when you get someone to graph out their loss history and they look at the amount of loss that their life is made up of, right, Man, what a daunting exercise. What an uncomfortable place because all you’re talking about now Is what they’ve experienced that got them in turmoil, and they don’t know that there’s a pathway through any of this. Right. They have no clue. All you’re doing is bringing up all of these, like, incredibly uncomfortable things for them.

Rob Dale:
Alright. Right. So There’s the first thing. Take us through the rest of the process. Solve it all for us.

Don Lachance:
Solve it all Or us. No pressure. You know what would be really cool? And if someone was willing would be to walk through a process.

Rob Dale:
So before we do it, may maybe let’s try this. Mhmm. Can I we we we put a question out to the Facebook group?

Don Lachance:
Mhmm. Sure.

Rob Dale:
So now I think I don’t know if this can work in this context of what you’re suggesting because the person’s not here Yep. For you to follow-up questions, but may let’s try it and then see how that works.

Don Lachance:
Let’s give it a go.

Rob Dale:
And and so do wanna encourage. Again, if you’re not, we’ve got the link. We’re gonna show have that in the show notes, We’ll also put on the screen, we do have a private Facebook group, and we have all kinds of conversations. We

Eric Deschamps:
elaborate community.

Rob Dale:
Lots of people that are talking about the, different episodes. We ask questions in advance, and we did that. We asked questions saying that we’re gonna be doing these, these series on grief and what do you have. And and Carrie, one of our longtime listeners, she wrote this. I’m just gonna read hers, what she said, and then let’s talk about how you would walk someone like that through some of the process. She says, I’m an expert A discontinuing from my emotions is a way of not feeling overwhelmed or unable to cope. A sensitive person who is always scanning my environment for perceived threats, I I’ve developed a thick force field over the years, I guess. My mom died a little over a year ago, and I still feel Like, I haven’t connected to any feelings of grief.

Rob Dale:
I’d love to hear some tips on how to connect with and process grief, particularly when there are challenges in a relationship that went unresolved and there was already an existing feeling of detachment.

Don Lachance:
Wow. That’s That’s a mouthful, Rob, because when you think of it, like, from my perspective, Carrie’s claim in there to not having connected to grief, yet is really opposite of what’s unfolding. She is so connected to grief that she can’t really move through with anything else, and and Nobody is there to really allow her or give her permission to connect to that deep rooted pain And and break. One of the very first things I realized, when I got into this work, I’d meet people in public places, and, watching somebody Break in a public place is very uncomfortable for them. Yeah. Not so much for me because I knew what was coming. I was expecting it, But began to realize that, like, the the the Zoom environment became the perfect place for people to connect because they were in In safe places. Right?

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And now you can connect them to it because out in public watching somebody connect to that Mhmm. And you get the. Yeah. Yeah. It starts, and then you see the break. And instantly, they plug in to all of the conditioning that the world’s provided them with to not feel bad, to Suck it up. Feel, like, you know, not feel. So in in Carrie’s, place, it’s it’s not that she’s stepping away from it.

Don Lachance:
Like, She she can. She’s so embedded in in that turmoil, in that loss, and that though that pain hasn’t been able to express it, hasn’t been able to talk Anybody about it?

Rob Dale:
Do you think part of it is, with that is when we when I hear someone say I haven’t been able to connect to grief, I’ve said it. When I say that, It’s I know for me when I when I think I haven’t I’m not I’m not connecting to the grief. I talk about it with my daughter’s death that it took me 15 years to to truly start to grieve, her death or what I thought was, again, because I was defining the grief was a set expected emotions that I had to release. Right? And and I and I wonder if when Carey used that language or when people use that language, I haven’t connected to grief is what they’re really saying is I haven’t connected to what I perceive to be the proper emotions to express in that moment.

Don Lachance:
That right. And, again, like, let’s take it all back to the conditioning of of how conditioned we are to not feel bad. Mhmm. You know?

Eric Deschamps:
One of That that’s one of the myths, Right. That you talk about that

Don Lachance:
needs to be done. Yeah. Feel bad. Replace the loss, you know. And you can you You know, the examples are plentiful. Like, as a kid, you lose a pet. Right? You go to mom or dad, and you’re crying, and you don’t know how to deal with it. And what does dad Say, oh, don’t worry.

Don Lachance:
We’ll get you a new pup on Saturday.

Rob Dale:
Right. Or you just replace the pup with a matching one without telling the kid.

Don Lachance:
Well, there’s That’s like dark, man.

Eric Deschamps:
Dark. Dark. Dark. But it’s a Yeah.

Don Lachance:
But it’s a but it’s a reality. Pod.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right. Yeah. We do. You know?

Don Lachance:
Yep. Think about that.

Rob Dale:
Replace the goldfish.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. And and that’s the thing. Right? When you ask somebody to think about something

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Take a step further, and how do they feel about thinking about that? Right. Right. Because now, like, there’s that exchange that starts to take place, and and and it’s within self. How uncomfortable can that be? Because, wow, I think I know who I am. I think I know how I deal with And then something on something unfolds, something occurs, and I’m out to left field. Like, I I I don’t know how I’m gonna deal with it then.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right.

Don Lachance:
And and and so you’re trapped. Yep. Right? And who’s gonna walk you through that process? Who’s gonna tell you it’s okay for you to cry about that? And if you need to sit here for an hour and continue to cry until that has gotten to a place where there’s no more pressure. Right. No more internal pressure. But who creates space like that for people?

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Yeah. That’s tough stuff. And she She talks about, and I appreciate, Carrie. I know you’re you’re gonna be watching. You’re gonna be listening. You’re not here to kinda fill in the blanks as we’re talking here. And so, we’re we appreciate you, your question and us kinda using it as a way to explore, the subject matter more fully, this this really important topic.

Eric Deschamps:
She she makes an important point. She says, the the dynamic of when you’ve lost someone And things go unresolved. There was, we we talk about finding closure. Can you can you talk to us your view on finding closure, because I think many of us are seeking it.

Don Lachance:
Holy crap. Like, first of all, from my perspective, closure is the wrong word to using because think about what closure means, shutting off, disconnecting, And it’s the last thing you want. You’re you’re looking for opening. You’re looking to open up Pandora’s box. You’re you’re looking to, like, Create pathways for people to express the pain, the anger, the anxiety, the frustration, All of it because if if you lose like a parent, it’s not the 1st loss you’ve ever experienced. I’m sure you’ve got classmates. You’ve got friends. Like, you know, you’ve you’ve you’ve got a lifetime full of loss.

Don Lachance:
Mhmm. You’re just not connecting to it. Right. Right. And that’s the hard part. That’s why, like, the very first step in this process is to walk someone through their their loss history. Mhmm. And when you get to look at how much loss your life is comprised of.

Don Lachance:
Holy mac. Like, what an uncomfortable state to be in. The good news is there’s a pathway to recovery. Right. Because every one of those loss based events involves a relationship of some form. So now we choose a relationship that has caused Some of the greatest turmoil. I’ll sit and I’ll listen as they begin to just document their loss out, and I’ll pretty much know what relationship they should choose, but I always wanna give them the the the option of of choosing that. Right? Because in every relationship now, there are positive events that take place, but there’s a lot of negative events that take place.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Right. Right. And there’s a delta there. And so what does that really mean? As we begin to move through that and they look at the relationship On a graph now of the highlights and the lowlights and all of that, it starts to paint a much different picture. Yep. And we stand on the outside of all of this looking in and still unaware of how we move through it. What do we do? So as we move through the process and we work through an actual relationship Yeah. Then we begin to introduce recovery components.

Eric Deschamps:
Okay.

Don Lachance:
Okay. And the recovery components surface in the form of apologies, forgiveness, and significant emotional statements. Because what’s really happening with us when we’re when we’re really, I guess, overtaken by loss and and and the strong emotions that come with it Is just this inability to really be able to plug in and And and and complete emotionally. And we talked about it in the last episode in regards to your daughter. Mhmm. Anchored to pain around 6 words. Right?

Rob Dale:
Yes.

Don Lachance:
Different, better, more. The greedy deal with past issues and hopes, dreams, and expectations, the things that We got robbed of, the things that we never got a chance to experience. Incredible amounts of loss in that, yet no event occurred. Right.

Eric Deschamps:
It’s just an unfulfilled expectation or dream. And yeah.

Rob Dale:
And I and I think when people use the language of closure, and I appreciate so much how you’re you know, again, because words do matter. Words really. I I I think in some cases, they’re thinking, you know, and I I recently put a post, kinda celebrating my daughter and and and really just recognize and honor and talked about That I’m in a you know, my place today is in the grieving process. And correct me here. I mean, listen. I I give you permission to challenge this just as You did without permission last, but, or He

Don Lachance:
was he was intrusive,

Eric Deschamps:
but not invasive. We follow we actually call that, uncomfortable but never unseen.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. No. I Oh,

Don Lachance:
I like that.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. And, but and I talked about the notion of like, I don’t grieve as in sadness When I reflect on on my daughter.

Don Lachance:
Mhmm. I

Rob Dale:
don’t you know, that’s so because oftentimes, I I hesitate when I post Something to kinda recognize either her birthday or the day that she passed away. I get a lot of people ready, oh, I’m Po story for your loss, and and they’re right into that. And I part of me wants to say, hey. No. No. That’s not it’s okay. Like, I’m good. And I think the way I worded it this time was trying to kinda say that.

Rob Dale:
Now, and that goes to a bit of the myth of Time heals all wounds. Right? This notion of just give it time. Yeah. But at some point, as someone is grieving something

Don Lachance:
Mhmm.

Rob Dale:
Is there there is that point, I think, at least it was for me, where the shift happens from it being a Sadness to a reflectiveness, I guess. Mhmm. It it may be that direct. Am I am I right on that, or do I just need a ton more work?

Don Lachance:
Well

Eric Deschamps:
That’s

Don Lachance:
That’s that’s

Eric Deschamps:
a loaded question. I just opened up the door for that one.

Don Lachance:
Well, no. That like, it it it is

Rob Dale:
a loaded question. Healing with Rob Dale.

Eric Deschamps:
No. Welcome to the healing of Rafael. Right. Yes. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
When when you think about that, right, it’s because you’ve processed Those emotions. You haven’t dodged them. You haven’t put them in a box. You haven’t stuck them in the backpack.

Rob Dale:
For a

Don Lachance:
long time. Yeah. Well, of course, because Who gave you permission to feel the pain?

Rob Dale:
No. And especially in the world where I have I don’t grieve as those who have no hope.

Don Lachance:
Right. You didn’t

Rob Dale:
we live

Eric Deschamps:
in a permission to

Rob Dale:
I lived in a world where you didn’t grieve because she’s in a better place.

Don Lachance:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
I just saw somebody post Something exactly like that on Facebook. They said, why do Christians get sad when someone they love dies who they know is going to heaven? Shouldn’t they be happy for them?

Don Lachance:
Wow. See, people say things that although may be intellectually accurate Right. They’re completely void of any emotional value.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Don Lachance:
And we’re talking about an emotional state. Yeah. And so To to to say something, okay, that’s based on a belief Right. That somebody has. The griever isn’t thinking about that. The griever’s thinking about not being able to talk to that cherished person. Yeah. You know? And we do we do mention it, and it’s a pa that comes up.

Don Lachance:
We experienced we experienced mixed emotions when death occurs, Especially in light of let’s let’s look at a parent that’s been suffering when whatever. Yes. Yep. Part of us is happy Yeah. That they’re no longer suffering. They’re no longer

Eric Deschamps:
in pain. Story with that. The 22 year battle with lung cancer. Never smoked a day in his life. I I watched him, his physical state deteriorate from one of strength and, to he was a fraction of the man, I remember still my mom calling me one day, asked me to come over. They only live 5 minutes away, and dad had collapsed in the bathroom. And I remember the experience of having to pick my my dad up off the floor, and bring him to his bed. And even as I’m

Rob Dale:
I can see it.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Oh, no. It’s very busy.

Don Lachance:
No. No. No.

Eric Deschamps:
So so it it was it was hard. It was hard to watch that. So when he when he passed, There was this sense of at least he’s not suffering anymore. Mhmm. Right? Mhmm. And yet deep anger for me.

Don Lachance:
Absolutely. Well, anger, like, really allows us to isolate. It keeps people away. Right? Well, that’s the only we manage.

Eric Deschamps:
It’s the only move I’ve got.

Don Lachance:
Well, when you think about it

Eric Deschamps:
as a guy And and humor. And humor. Anger and humor. Yep. Yep. You got 2. Oh, you just saw both. You cute.

Rob Dale:
Cush. This is show and tell. Yes, Eve. I am multifaceted. Yeah. I’ve

Eric Deschamps:
got I’ve got 2 moves.

Don Lachance:
I’ve got 2 emotions. I can express freely.

Rob Dale:
To Don. Don’t let him off the hook. You you were leaning in here, and he’s, like, oh, no. Look at this.

Don Lachance:
I I I was leaning in here.

Eric Deschamps:
And Don, it’s so Great to have you on the show this week, folks.

Don Lachance:
See. And and it’s the humor. Right? Yeah. Like, here’s the reality of that situation. You were connecting to that And likely elements that you haven’t had a real opportunity to process. And they come up because now, all of a sudden, it’s no longer the dad you knew that’s The hero. That’s the strong. That’s the all of it.

Don Lachance:
You’re looking at this frail entity wondering, like, how the hell did I get here? More importantly, how did he get here, and how did I allow something like this to happen? So loss of any involvement. And so The part of us is grieving, like, who he was prior to the death, Prior to the demise, there’s all of this turmoil around your it’s not really your dad. Yeah. Like, not the dad I knew. You know, do I wanna connect you to that? Absolutely. I wanna connect you to that, but I think you’ve done enough emotional work to experience what you were just experience experiencing right now, and and you can probe that. You can freely go on and and and have a good look at that.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Right. I think it’s a loss

Eric Deschamps:
of control, during that time, the loss of faith. Lead to a big major transition in my life, loss of although I don’t regret that too much now, but, loss of a whole season of my life. Community. Community loss of community. There’s just so much wrapped up in that. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
One of one of the elements, like, that be I I became aware of and very uncomfortable with. Is it okay to address alter calls?

Eric Deschamps:
That some of our audience will not know what that means. Some are explanation.

Don Lachance:
Well, I I I think it warrants like I mentioned. And because it it’s a great example, right, of whitewashing and and not really accepting responsibility. And what I mean by that is long time churchgoer on on a worship team. So during alter calls, BB here got to sit behind the safety of his drums and watching people respond. Right. And I’m not being judgmental. I’m just being an observer here. I would see the same people getting up for the same altar call Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Every time it every time it occurred.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. For our listeners, an altar call was simply at the end of us, church service Hi, for you. Church. Where folks were invited if they felt moved by what had been shared by the minister. It used to be you and I And others. Right? But, would be invited to come forward to the front as a sign of sort of accepting or Surrender. Surrender. Whatever.

Rob Dale:
I said that’s Whatever.

Eric Deschamps:
In that world, that’s called. A call to the altar, I guess, would be another, the better way to put it.

Don Lachance:
And and not that I’m trying to Make anybody uncomfortable. Yeah. But what I’d constantly see occur would be people, and and and we’re We’re instructed to just turn your burdens over to god, right, to the lord. And For me, it’s always fallen into the category, the same category as, like, I love you with the love of the lord.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Like

Don Lachance:
Yeah. I hate you. You’re an asshole. Yeah. But I love you with the love of

Eric Deschamps:
the poor.

Rob Dale:
My my favorite t shirt, Jesus loves you, but I think you’re an asshole. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
So but when you think about that, and here’s all these People coming up for these altar calls.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And they’re they’re handing over their burdens. They’re handing over their this Are

Eric Deschamps:
they though? Like Well, no.

Rob Dale:
And and that’s Right.

Don Lachance:
That’s right. You’re saying it aside.

Eric Deschamps:
Why did God not take them? Right?

Don Lachance:
Because that’s that’s what we’re we’re literally Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
I was talking to someone yesterday about, they were talk a young guy that’s, a young business leader that I’m working with. And when he first reached out to me a few months ago, it’s a really bad place, Both personally, professionally, been walking him through the model of living richly, discovering your best life, designing your best life, and he’s just coming alive. It’s just amazing to watch the joy. And he started to talk to me about, well, now when I start to feel in a funk or I start to feel off or I feel bad, I just go and do something else. I just Shift my state. And I said, okay. Actually, that that there are times where that is the right strategy. Sometimes getting up, Going for a walk, go to walk the dog, go workout is a great strategy.

Eric Deschamps:
I said, the problem with it though, it can become a numbing strategy, which you’re numbing with Good things, but you’re still avoiding sitting with your pain.

Rob Dale:
Sit in the grief.

Eric Deschamps:
Well so I remember people telling me that for years, Eric, you just need to learn to sit with Those bad emotions. I go, what the fuck does that look like? Like, I don’t know what it means to sit and and and and now I do, but then I didn’t.

Don Lachance:
Let me finish my point in regards to No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.

Don Lachance:
It’s okay. No. You didn’t because, like, what you’ve got to say is really important.

Rob Dale:
He avoided you. I can’t

Don Lachance:
yeah. He’s dodgy. I’m dodgy.

Rob Dale:
I still dodgy no dodge.

Don Lachance:
I know what it is.

Rob Dale:
See what I’m doing. See what

Eric Deschamps:
I’m doing. Well, I can’t well, I’m gonna run out of time.

Rob Dale:
But but everyone sees what you’re doing.

Don Lachance:
To to get to my point, why doesn’t it work?

Rob Dale:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Because they haven’t pot the responsibility of ownership for the flaw that they’re looking to have addressed, and you cannot give away Something that you don’t own. Mic

Rob Dale:
drop. Woah.

Don Lachance:
It’s impossible. Same thing with grief. Right? You can’t hand over the discomfort Until you’ve accepted that responsibility. Mhmm. You see, the the awareness, the acknowledgement, and the acceptance, And it ties into our competency levels. Right? We’ve even got expressions for it, and I don’t know if I mentioned this on the last episode. Ignorance is bliss. Right.

Don Lachance:
How comfortable is that? Like, happy go lucky. I don’t have to worry about anything. Right? And an asshole like me comes along and makes you aware of something. Holy crap. Now all of a sudden, Your competency is challenged because now you are consciously incompetent. Yeah. Who’s gonna stay in that place? Yeah. What am I gonna do?

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. The, you know, when early in this process, part of what spawned this whole, experience. Define process for me. The evolution of this podcast, the Living Rich Leaf movement, the whole thing, right, was conversations that started between 3 of us. And, I remember when I had my, 2nd great awakening, I called. My 1st great awakening was in 2017 after I Hit the wall pretty hard in in spring of 2022 as my second one where a series of events took place, and it it Drove me back into work that I’d been avoiding, and I literally my life changed. Bunch of stuff that I’d been working on for years just landed. And I remember working on not working, just reflecting on what does it mean to live your best life, to live richly.

Eric Deschamps:
And you’ll remember this. It’s to me, it’s having full access to all of the resources of the mind, the heart, the body, the spirit, having full Unrestricted access to all those dimensions of my life. And I think for men, specifically, the heart is a tough one. We are socialized and trained to live with an emotional straitjacket

Don Lachance:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
Where it’s not okay to feel. Mhmm. It’s not okay to show weakness. It’s not a boys don’t real men don’t cry. Mhmm. How does your Your work in helping people navigate through grief and own their grief is probably the most powerful statement on this entire conversation was just dropped. But How do you see that showing up, when you’re working with men?

Don Lachance:
Again, like it’s the deep rooted conditioning. I’m gonna use an example that might make you uncomfortable, but I’m gonna do it regardless. When you were talking about your dad, what was it that kept you from breaking and actually shedding a tear or experiencing the depth of the emotion you were feeling. When just minutes ago in this conversation, you started talking about The degradation of the body, and you were connected to something that’s deep rooted in you. What was it that kept you from allowing yourself to break?

Eric Deschamps:
So if that in a different context, I think I would have showed up differently when you asked me the question. I’m on right now. I’m here to help people right now. Mhmm. This whole podcast is about helping people. So it’s not about me right now. And that’s, a construct I’ve lived with A long time. I’m working to deconstruct it.

Eric Deschamps:
Okay?

Don Lachance:
I just wanna point something out. Yeah. Right? In you sharing that, How many other men are sitting out there saying this isn’t about me? Okay. And and this isn’t to make you uncomfortable. This is to raise an awareness that, like, That that I’m

Eric Deschamps:
good, but being uncomfortable is what I’m used to.

Don Lachance:
Men men men need to hear this. Right? People need to hear this.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
When you connect to that and you allow yourself to break, that’s the 1st safe place that some men will ever experience that will allow them And provide them with the courage Yeah. To take their mask off and connect emotionally some people for the very first time ever. Yeah. That’s powerful.

Eric Deschamps:
It is powerful.

Don Lachance:
So for us to wanna not make it about us because we’re here to help, The best help we can provide somebody with is the authenticity of that brokenness that we allow to surface freely because That is you owning what’s yours so that you can give it away.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right. Wow.

Rob Dale:
I am, I am so glad the focus is on air today. We’re not done yet,

Don Lachance:
Rob. Not.

Rob Dale:
Not done yet. Oh, yeah. Don’t over there.

Don Lachance:
It’s like Hey. I I I help. No. I I want I want you to understand that this is important. Hell yeah.

Rob Dale:
This is so good. I know.

Don Lachance:
This is important. This Isn’t about Eric. This is about emotional turmoil and how conditioned we have been to not share. And on that front

Rob Dale:
And I will say this. We have had guests who have shared some pretty powerful stuff, and it’s interesting. We’ve had Female guests share share some pretty emotional stuff and be comfortable well, not comfortable, but but will shed tears. Apologizing. I, I remember, we had somebody on there. Apology around there. Somebody on there, and they apologize. Oh, I I I didn’t realize this was gonna hit me this way.

Rob Dale:
It was right near the beginning of the episode. I guess, I could say which episodes. People go back and look. That was the one with Janine Janine, And she got quite emotional to her. And then we have other episodes, when Steve was sharing about, the his son’s, passing. And very you could see the you could just see it there. And then shifting gears, certainly, we are conditioned. You’re right.

Rob Dale:
It’s Me last week, it’s, us being able to or even even when Eric’s sharing and he’s getting emotional, that’s what I’m thinking is, oh, he’s you know, I want he’s gonna break down here and, you know, kinda okay. What do I do? Do I just let that? Do we just kinda shift gear? It gets interesting to see how because we’re both, I guess not we, all of us, are so wired to, you know, perform, to protect, not Let that come out, and yet it’s probably the best thing that people can see is men Jesus wept.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. There there there’s there’s so much. Right? Here here’s a really good example. And, both you can both be conscious of this. The next time You hug a fellow friend, a man? Make sure you’re not patting them on the back. Because we are so uncomfortable expressing that emotion that we pat them on the back.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Don Lachance:
We’re picking up on their discomfort of hugging. What did your mom do when you were an infant to try and soothe you? Pat it on the back, so it takes us right back to that place. If you’re gonna hug someone, hug them, hold them. Don’t pat them on the back. Yeah. Don’t make all kinds of other things, like, happen because, like, be intentional with What you want people to experience from you, your openness. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
I, I’m so glad I got one right because I don’t pat people on the back with a hug. But the next time I hug you, I’m holding on.

Eric Deschamps:
Oh, you’ve always wanted to

Rob Dale:
hear that. Minutes, I’m holding on.

Eric Deschamps:
I’m gonna be like Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Alright. We’re Well, what what’s the thing, like, 20 seconds, right, for the dopamine to get released in the pods? You you can take it what you want, rub. I look like a professional

Rob Dale:
snuggler to you.

Don Lachance:
Like, I I’m not here to control people. I’m here to set you free. That’s right.

Rob Dale:
That’s right.

Don Lachance:
And if you wanna hunt for 5 minutes by that

Eric Deschamps:
We we but we talk about the importance of language. And in a moment, we’re we’re Yeah. In the interest of, time. I know we’re gonna run we could sit here and talk all day and comfort. But you you even used the language a moment ago about, you’re sound I think Eric’s gonna break down. Why do we call it that? Why do we call it that? We we we make it almost shameful. I’m breaking down. Am I, or am I coming together finally? Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Like, what

Don Lachance:
a what a great what a great freaking shift and statement.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? That I’m actually connecting with Life, I’m not avoiding. I’m not numbing. I’m not self medicating. I’m not walking through life like some digital zombie That I’m actually embracing. You know? We heard this from Susan Blaine that I know you’ve, you know, are are well connected with, and she talked about emotion And how the word motion is in that word.

Don Lachance:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
And how when we don’t we don’t when we run from it, when we hide it, block it out, And and avoid it. It gets stuck in us. It’s supposed to move through us, but we we don’t know how to do that very well, most of us.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Right. You see, I I I love that. Right? I’m a constant learner. Mhmm. You speaking that very specific, element. Why do we call it breaking down? Why can’t we call that, wow, I’m really beginning to flex an emotional muscle here, pot. And and and I’m comfortable doing that.

Eric Deschamps:
Why can’t the the new sexy not be coming together? I’m coming together. I am, especially for men that are watching the show. I think when we use the language, I’m breaking apart. I’m afraid that if I get in touch with it I know for years, I avoided. I tell the story of a vision I had for many years or a dream, a recurring dream about a cabin in the woods and a presence walking me up to the door, and I refused to go in because I knew inside I’d to deal with some shit. And for years, I avoided, and that’s what the game that I played. And and and it’s only when I began to really get in touch With the things that had wounded me and the the mistakes that I had made and the the the the the crappy mindsets, beliefs that I had held about myself and the world, Could I truly begin to heal? To me, that’s courage. To me, that’s strength.

Eric Deschamps:
But I know for a lot of men and women that are listening or watching right now, I’m afraid to get in touch with it because I might fall apart. And I think our hearts to you as you, but what if you came together?

Don Lachance:
Yeah. What a that was

Eric Deschamps:
the beginning of a transformation.

Don Lachance:
That that’s beautiful. And you see, like, I can attribute that to to the courage that’s across from me, at this table here, being willing to talk about some of the uncomfortable things that you experience in a real way. And the reason that we don’t use that terminology and we haven’t been able to say, like, you know, I’m coming together is Because it’s so infrequent, but let’s change that. Yeah. Right? Like, let’s change that. Here is the birthing of a new term that we can Ease people into. Because, you know, with the awareness, the acknowledgement, and the acceptance, it’s it it’s in there. Right?

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And and if there’s a word that I could take out of the dictionary when it comes to emotional wellness, it would be strength. What a trap.

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm. Mhmm. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
What a trap. Courage? Swap out courage or, like, strength for courage in Every conversation that you’re having, and watch what begins to shift.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. Wow. Wow.

Rob Dale:
We are We are, needing to wrap up. I wanna ask you 1 more question. Now last time we asked you, what does it mean to to live richly? What what does what does the term living richly mean to you? So Not gonna ask that again, but what is what does it mean to live richly in the midst of grief? What does living your best life mean in grief?

Don Lachance:
Embracing the courage it takes to feel the discomfort without guilt.

Eric Deschamps:
Wow. And courage, best definition I ever heard is fear walking. Fear walking. Right? So courage is not some bravado. We’re not talking about some kind of macho bravado falsehood here. It’s even as I’m sitting here, and I have been for the last 15 minutes, I’m my whole body’s shaking. Yeah. You know, I haven’t, felt that, on any episode to date.

Eric Deschamps:
Courage is fear walking.

Don Lachance:
That’s good, mate.

Rob Dale:
Thank you everyone for being a part of, I think, a pretty profound episode. These have been absolutely great. Really do encourage you to like, comment, subscribe to the channel. Don is a part of our private Facebook group. And so, you can interact with him if you, if you are a part of the Facebook group. He is in there. He is one of our Kind of, big supporters within the group responds. You can reach out to him and ask questions as part of the group.

Rob Dale:
So we do encourage you. If you haven’t already joined the the Facebook group. The link is gonna show up. We’re gonna make sure it’s in the show notes, but it’ll be on the screen as well if you’re watching by YouTube. I’m gonna encourage you to be a part of that as well. So Thank you so much for taking

Eric Deschamps:
the time. Don. We don’t And yeah. Oh, sorry. Yeah. I don’t know if I wanna thank Don. Think I don’t know if you

Rob Dale:
would wanna thank Don, then I

Eric Deschamps:
Donald, definitely, you could back on the show.

Rob Dale:
Or not. We’ll

Don Lachance:
see. Maybe after we rewatch it.

Eric Deschamps:
Well, I reserve the right to change my mind.

Rob Dale:
Don will be back on the show, but we are gonna have other guests, folks. Are gonna be here soon to be sitting here doing an episode with you. No. We wanna thank you again, and, until next time. Get out there and live your best life.

.