Moving Through Grief and Loss with Don Lachance – Part 1

Moving Through Grief and Loss with Don Lachance

Don Lachance:
It’s how life comes to us. Right? Through awareness, we acknowledge and then we accept. And it’s the wrestle between the acknowledgement and the acceptance. The angst that I was dealing with was the fact that I was unable to protect my mom. We’ve been So cruelly conditioned by the world to never deal with grief.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Never deal with our emotions, really, and that’s what it comes down to.

Rob Dale:
Hey, and welcome to the Living Rich Lee podcast. We are so excited to have you here with us today. Eric and I are are really excited about today’s episode, and we’re gonna get into why in just a moment. We are gonna be talking with somebody that really goes back with you, goes back a lot, and we’ll tell that story Yep. And then has a really interesting In connection with me, that came about from the podcast itself. But we were gonna be talking today about grief. And every single one of us experiences grief at some point. We all may take the journey of how we live out that grief, But we experience pain and suffering.

Rob Dale:
And our guest today is a pain and loss specialist. Don LaChanze, is a a gentleman who knows about grief firsthand. He has struggled with addictions. He Steve really began his addictive struggles, at the age of 12, and he’ll share a bit of that story. And for about 20 years, battled with drug and alcohol addictions for finally getting clean and sober and has been doing that now for 38 years in recovery. It’s been incredible. Don, it’s So good to have you here on this on the show today. Welcome.

Don Lachance:
Thank you. Thank you very much. It’s it’s really great to be here. This is this is very freeing for me on many fronts, simply because the message that we get to carry to people who find themselves grieving, is an important one because we’ve been so cruelly conditioned by the world to never deal with grief.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Never deal with our emotions, really, and that’s what it comes down to. So Yeah. Thanks for the opportunity to, come in here today and share with your audience. I really appreciate it.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. We’re so thrilled to have you here, and we’re gonna get into our our the story and the conversation. I wanna kick us off Yeah. With, how the hell does a guy like you, given your background, what’s the Coles Notes version of you ending up as a grief and loss specialist in helping people the way you do today.

Don Lachance:
Great question, Eric, because, you know, coming through the lifestyle style I came through and then, embracing a a pathway to recovery. There were a lot of things going on in my life, and I’ve got a good Friend that, you know, has been working with the marginalized, most of his life and, was looking to take up A position as the chaplain at the mission. And, he said, look. I’d like you to vet a course for me, because I’m thinking of taking this. So I said, well, fire it off, and let me have a look at it.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And, as I began to look into the course, I just began to realize how incomplete I was emotionally with so many relationships regardless of some of the brutal recovery that I’d already experienced just relationally how lost I was. And, the the term is really being incomplete emotionally. So My next comment to him was, like, if you go do this, let me know because I wanna do this too.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right. Right. Right. Yeah. It’s powerful. I remember years ago, my mentor, Jim Harrington, who was in the early stages of his influence in my life and the work that he helped me do, And I was processing a ton of stuff that I’d never dealt with, tons of suffering that I just managed to bury and keep at bay or at least I thought I was for a very long time. And I remember him first saying to me, he says, it’s okay, Eric.

Eric Deschamps:
You just haven’t developed the emotional maturity to learn how to process this stuff.

Don Lachance:
And I

Eric Deschamps:
remember my first response was like, Fuck you. I thought Oh, sorry. Are you calling me emotionally immature? Yeah. Basically Such

Rob Dale:
an emotionally mature thing.

Don Lachance:
It was a very

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Nice. Nice done, Neil. Yeah. We started the episode or I started the episode by saying that everybody experiences grief. And yet there I think that there are a lot of misconceptions around what grief is. Mhmm. There are a lot of misunderstanding of when we use that language.

Rob Dale:
How do you define grief?

Don Lachance:
Grief is a normal and natural, event, and, what surfaces for us Emotionally is also natural and normal. The difference being most of us are conditioned not to deal with the emotional discomfort. So we become extremely adept at dodging it and and not really acknowledging what was happening, so that we can get to the place of acceptance and and really begin to move through. And I I used the term earlier on when I was just talking of like, the Coles note version of how I got here in regards to, being emotionally incomplete. Yeah. And, it all ties into that. So Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
And so, yeah, I’m curious when you say that emotionally incomplete. We’ve talked many Times on the show about and this isn’t limited to our male audience, but I think a lot of men Really struggle when it comes to getting in touch emotionally with what’s going on beyond their their mind And the fixable approach, the one emotion that we, know really well, which is rage, that one we’re all very comfortable with or Not comfortable, but acquainted with. Yeah. Do you see that in your work with male, female clients, like, The the emotionals I I call it, like, well, immaturity, you call it in incomplete. How do you see that show up for men? Do you find they struggle more?

Don Lachance:
I I don’t know that they struggle more because grief and loss. Like, here’s the difference. Like, Grief, we typically want to attribute to the death of a loved one or, you know, Something along those lines like losing a kid. Mhmm. And, you know, we we grieve deeply. The same emotional turmoil surfaces as with any other loss. And, like, there there are so many other variances of loss when you think about loss of self worth, Loss of innocence Right. Loss of value Mhmm.

Don Lachance:
Loss of income. A a divorce, a separation is loss. And that same emotional turmoil friendship.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Absolute. Yeah. Yeah. Anything you can look at loss of a job. Right. You know? Anything that has you and and we’re anchored, we’re emotionally incomplete because we’re anchored to that Pain around 6 words. Different, better, more, hopes, dreams, and expectations.

Rob Dale:
Alright. You

Eric Deschamps:
gotta slow down. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Slow down. Easy. Easy. Easy. I know. I know. About a ta da

Rob Dale:
da. Right? Like, holy shit.

Eric Deschamps:
And it’s been a great show. Thank you, folks. Most of

Rob Dale:
our audience are really smart.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
K?

Eric Deschamps:
The 2 of us, not so much.

Rob Dale:
Nah. So you’re talking to us too, and you know. Right? So maybe, take maybe, highlight those again, but then a little slower and maybe a quick one word depends on what each one of them is.

Don Lachance:
Is there anything that you wanna table on that front that we can look at as an example maybe?

Rob Dale:
Well, so per well, I mean, hey, listen. I was thinking this actually. I mean, and my story is there’s all kinds of loss at different places. But certainly one that I’ve shared about many times is the loss of my daughter. Right. And I know that my experience with grief in that moment was, I don’t know how to word it. It was veiled in the religiosity of my, as a pastor That’s helpful. Of of needing of having faith.

Rob Dale:
Right? So We don’t grieve as those who have no hope, as as the, good book says. And so Which

Eric Deschamps:
for the person who doesn’t understand that phrase, Almost was meant to mean we’re not supposed to grieve because this person has gone to heaven. Yeah. And I had should be celebrating.

Rob Dale:
And I had just when when Katie died, I had, just recently early a few months earlier, well, buddy about a year earlier, Had become the pastor of for the 1st time, the lead pastor. I was the guy in the church up in near Quail Falls. And all of a sudden, I had to demonstrate Faith.

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm.

Don Lachance:
And

Rob Dale:
so I didn’t grieve properly in a healthy way my daughter’s death for probably 25 years. 20 years, anyway. So let’s use that as an example. Walk me through the 5 the 5 words, 6 words, 72 words.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Like, it it you know? And and and the words will keep popping up.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Depending on how courageous you are and how deeply you wanna delve into the pain. Right. Really, is what it all comes down to and and having somebody that you trust enough

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
To open up to about some of those things, you know. So let’s look at at at the death of your daughter and the role that you were fulfilling at the time Yeah. In having to demonstrate this courage and this Incredible, undeniable faith that your congregation is supposed to be looking to you to be able to Kind of step into, you know, and you’re robbing yourself of the true depth of what’s unfolded in your life.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And looking back at the different, better, more, where were you emotionally when it came to? And and here’s where we talk about being emotionally incomplete. The things that you got robbed of, the being able to share with your daughter. Yeah. The things that you wish could have been different. Mhmm. Because now we begin to look at really the complexity of the relationship and and and how how did it unfold and, You know? The fights that we have that never get resolved and the arguments and some of the things that we know our kids hold against us. And, Like so it it it gets right down into the crevice of our very beings, like, our very soft spots.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Right? It almost

Eric Deschamps:
Is it is that, Like, would you consider those some of the regrets that we hang on to that when you say

Don Lachance:
the the better more Uh-huh. Different, better, more.

Eric Deschamps:
Different, better, more. Like, that we we look back and we say we like, I wish that would have been different. I wish I would have had that conversation. If only I had resolved that conflict. If only I had expressed to them what I is that what we’re talking

Don Lachance:
about here? Yeah. There’s there’s a great degree of that, But it’s it’s a very personal thing. Right. You know? It’s it’s it’s not a regret, like because you can work through that because We coach people on on how to complete emotionally. Yeah. And and it doesn’t matter that the people are no longer with us. It’s the emotional realm where everything is like, we’re held captive. Right.

Don Lachance:
Like, we we just continue to suffer in silence. Right? We’re we’re in that deep, deep pain. So much private pain. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
So much private pain.

Rob Dale:
And it and it is you’re you’re right. We suffer in silence. And one of the things certainly that brought me to a place of healing was the use of Therapy and and, you know, working with doctor Sherry in particular, and how she was able to help me process and understand, you know, to where my emotions were, what what I did lack in that point, even using language of PTSD around a number of the experiences that I had. There was a number of deaths that happened within a short time period, around the same time as my daughter, and what that was like. And and what I heard you say, though, when you shared those words, it was interesting You use the word regret because I was the word that was coming to my mind was, we just did an episode on this, was reflection. Was almost that is is part of the grieving process is thinking through those words in a reflective state Of of really taking the time to contemplate what does it mean to experience, you know, what could have been or what didn’t happen or how How I showed up or how I didn’t show up or all of that.

Don Lachance:
See, it it it’s interesting because everything you’re describing right now is all cerebral. Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? Yes.

Don Lachance:
You know? Yeah. Right. All all of the things.

Rob Dale:
Boy, it’s true.

Don Lachance:
Right? And we we tactical. Like well, because it’s it’s safe there. Right? We can you know, you talk about men, like, you know, are are they trapped more than other people? And and the answer is possibly.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
They can be because I I know a lot of very empathetic men, like, you know? Right. I’m I’m watching degrees of empathy rise in in in you guys, like Yeah. That Maybe had never been unleashed or or freed the way you express it now. Right? And and the hard part of of us working with people It’s getting them to move that 13 inches in their body from their heads to their hearts.

Eric Deschamps:
Yep. Right? The vital penny drop.

Don Lachance:
Right? Yeah. Like, you know, a a 13 inch journey, but some of the longest journeys that people will ever take because we’re deconstructing so much stuff. Once we become Aware of it. It’s how life comes to us. Right? Through awareness, we acknowledge, and then we accept. And it’s the wrestle between the acknowledgement and the acceptance. Yeah. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
That’s wow.

Rob Dale:
You’ve got quite a journey of of loss. You’ve gone through a lot of, Different experiences. We kind of, again, tease that out a little bit at the beginning of the show, you know, For somebody to begin drinking, and drug use at such a young age, typically, we don’t wake up one day and say, hey. I think I’ll just start drinking and, You know? Getting high.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Right? There’s things that lead to that, however comfortable you are in sharing some of that. I know that you do share openly in a lot of platforms, but maybe share a little bit of your journey of loss and some of the lessons that you learned through that, if you don’t mind.

Don Lachance:
Holy crap. I don’t mind at all. Thank you for the platform for me to be able to do this because I know you know, I I get to speak and I share openly, every chance I get. And, you you’ve got an audience that is hungry for this, and it’s growing. And so I’m very grateful that you’re providing me with a place to be able to do this. So I look at that, and I guess my real journey, began early early on Just with parents who were alcoholics and, Just the violence that comes with that lifestyle Yeah. With dysfunctional parents. Right? And remember waking up at the age of 7 1 night Where, my dad had my mom up against the wall and he was speeding her, and I came downstairs because I heard, like, the commotion.

Don Lachance:
Right? Ran into the kitchen and grabbed the butcher knife and went at him. Tried to kill him. Like, it was 7 years old? Yeah. And that was my goal. Right? Like, I I just wanted to kill him. Yeah. He was a phys ed instructor in the army and, wasn’t long. It didn’t take him very much to just kinda Throw me into a corner of the room and, like, I I remember hitting the wall and just kinda slumping there.

Don Lachance:
And I I I wasn’t every ounce of worse that could live in a little 7 year old body Just sept, like, just seeped into the floor. And, my journey to try and Get that back is is is what began to unfold for me. And, you know, I I was never sorry that I I didn’t Kill my dad, I’d I didn’t really think about it in those terms. The angst that I was dealing with was the fact that I was unable to Protect my mom. Yeah. Right. Right. And so the journey began.

Don Lachance:
I remember sitting out on the stoop of our walkout and, My grandfather showing up. I I don’t know who called him. Like, was it my dad to say, hey. Look. You know, we’re we’re in dire straits here. Come and get the kids. Or if it was my mom, Pat, come and get the kids. Dibby’s on the warpath, like, blah blah blah.

Don Lachance:
But I remember him coming. We were sitting on the steps. I had my sister on one side, my little brother on the other, and my grandfather just walked past us, didn’t say a word, and Came down and came down with the bunk bed dismantled, and tied it to the top of his old green Ford And put us in the back seat, finish tying it off. And I remember looking back at, the doorway as he drove away, and that was the last time I was to ever live with my Parents.

Eric Deschamps:
Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. Wow. I mean, it’s and and again, 7 years old. Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. No doubt we have listeners that are watching or listening to the show right now who can relate

Rob Dale:
Yep.

Eric Deschamps:
To a childhood that was, violent, where addictions were common, and, certainly, that sets you up in life, especially at an early age, to just have A lot more to overcome. Right? You would then turn, in time to addiction, I would assume, to dull the pain.

Don Lachance:
Well, the the there were a series of events that unfolded, you know? I I lived in this quandary of this Incredible amount of admiration for my grandfather for having taken us in and providing a safe place for my brother and sister. Or me, not so much. I wasn’t concerned about it. Being the oldest, I think it’s just an automatic role.

Eric Deschamps:
You want it down to be okay.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Yeah. You just take some 7 years old. Yeah. You become the parent. Right? And, wanting to do that and then this ugly ugly resentment Mhmm. And wanting to hold him or not wanting to holding him responsible, for my parents never having to get back together to, be a family.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right.

Don Lachance:
You know? Yep. Wow. So At at at the age of 11, like, I started really living a life that I wanted to live. Right. I I wasn’t following rules. You weren’t my parents. You’re not doing anything to help my parents get back together. Fuck you.

Don Lachance:
I’m gonna be who I am, and I’m gonna do what I wanted to do. Started staying out, getting in with the wrong crowd at a nearly early age.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And then Got molested by a neighbor, a female neighbor. And, man, did that lead me down some ugly paths, like, you know, that I’m not proud of, but, They’re a a real part of my life. Right? And it it was at the age of 11, and We’re playing hide and go seek in a friend’s basement, and his dad was a contractor. And I was sitting in a closet hiding. Closeted. Right? I think I’ll do it. Not what you might be thinking. One of those

Eric Deschamps:
Now you’re coming out of pocket.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I I remember banging my head against, like, a a doorknob and thinking, what the hell is a doorknob doing In a closet and fig fig frigged with it and opened it up, and a light comes on, and there’s these cases and cases of liquor. Mhmm. And, like, I thought, woah woah. So I went and got my buddy and said, look what I found.

Don Lachance:
And he said, like, yeah. Yeah. And So I opened a bottle and filled a a a little Pepsi bottle up with it and headed down to the park and drank that. Glory. No more pain.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right.

Don Lachance:
No more pain. Here I was. Numbed to the ning ning. Yeah. Like, not having to worry about anything because I couldn’t feel it.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. That’s yeah. Yeah. The the

Eric Deschamps:
the numbing factor. Right? Like, how many times have we talked about the fact that we just even on the reflection show we just did couple weeks ago, that, folks will do anything. Sometimes, innocent distractions, sometimes just throw themselves more into their work or into activities or Activities that we would consider socially acceptable, and then there’s the things that we consider not socially acceptable that we throw ourselves into All just to forget.

Don Lachance:
It I don’t know that we throw ourselves into those because there’s there’s a degree of of cognizance. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. You’re right.

Don Lachance:
But we we get dragged into it because they’re they’re quiet, numbing agents. See, we refer to all of those elements as the STURBs, Short term energy relieving behavior.

Rob Dale:
Oh, interesting.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. What we embrace.

Rob Dale:
We we, We we and just because this ties into this, it’s it’s, we mentioned that there’s connections to both of us, and for me to maybe take a second to share the connection you and I have, because it fits into what you’re just talking about, and that was, you were listening to to the podcast the episode episode 4,

Eric Deschamps:
early episodes where I help your story.

Rob Dale:
If I tell my story

Eric Deschamps:
Death found me.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Death found me. And one of the things that I talk about in the episode is About I I talk about the number of people that have died, including an uncle who was murdered, beaten to death outside of a bar. And and, you reached out to me and, you know, by chance is your uncle Terry, and I was like, yeah. Like and you were like, well, He and I, we we partied together. We he was my brother, and and we’re I and I remember my head spinning in that moment, and it took us a bit to get connected. We we to to get together, and I and we’re at an event, not that long ago where I Said, listen. I really wanna hear from you and, you know, tell me a bit of, like, you must know about my family, even like that.

Rob Dale:
And you made what was such an obvious comment now that I think about it. But in the moment, this is where coming from a guy who, you know, be you know, kind of got clean, stopped drinking, and all that stuff at 16, I forget this in the addiction world, As you said, well, Terry and I didn’t sit around and talk about family. That’s the whole reason we are addicts. We’re we’re getting together.

Eric Deschamps:
Trying to not talk about it.

Rob Dale:
Exactly. We’re avoiding that. We’re using drugs and alcohol to not Deal with the pain in our lives, and it was, like, such an obvious moment from

Don Lachance:
Yeah. One of those one of those ahas. Right?

Rob Dale:
Right. Exactly. Exactly as to how that is about. But there was that connection, and then it turned out that, you know, my uncle and your sister We’re married and, you’re you know? And and there’s lots of stories of of my uncle that I am aware of that your family you or your sister were very much involved in those experiences, which was very validating for me because there isn’t anyone in my life who has that experience. Even I don’t as much. I don’t speak to my my my other really, the rest of the family, and my mom’s gone. So there’s nobody that I can sit back and go, oh, yeah. You knew A family member and stuff like that.

Rob Dale:
And it was always interesting as we’ve been unpacking that together.

Don Lachance:
Absolutely. That search. Right? You see? But, again, it’s for completion.

Eric Deschamps:
Yes. Right?

Don Lachance:
You know? We don’t know that that’s what we’re looking for because we’ve been so conditioned not to deal with stuff. I remember posting on my on on one of my social media platforms. If this sounds uncomfortable, we need to talk. Here’s a cookie. Go watch TV.

Eric Deschamps:
Okay.

Don Lachance:
Think about that for a second. You turn to your parents with any degree of angst. Mhmm. Here’s a cookie, honey. Go watch TV. Right. You’re being told Yeah. Not to feel bad.

Don Lachance:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Bear with that.

Don Lachance:
Breathe alone. Yeah. Right. So true. You know?

Eric Deschamps:
It’s not okay to feel and add to that, again, I don’t mean to harp on it, but I think men have been raised you know, we talk about the strong, silent type. Right? We’re supposed to be strong. We’re not supposed to feel. You know? You oh, you hurt yourself. Just rub some dirt on it kinda thing. And

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Yeah. Man Steve is here today. Steve’s here.

Rob Dale:
Steve. Hey.

Eric Deschamps:
Hey there, Steve. When Steve talked about his, journey, in the world of sports, growing around a lot of, you know, folks in that space, There was a lot of shame attached to any demonstration of emotion or feeling bad or whatever. You were considered soft and the rest of That’s right. And and I think it was, I forget where I heard this, but it is time to advocate for as opposed to strong and silent, which is killing men. The rate of suicide among men is much higher than among women, and and I think part of it is because men Don’t talk. We we often, where where women traditionally, or at least the statistics would tell us, are more open and and typically have a stronger support network, guys don’t. And it’s literally killing us that it’s time to advocate for a brave and open type of masculinity, where this kind of thing

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Is normal. It’s Courageous Yeah. But it’s normal that this is talking about your shit isn’t weakness. Yeah. It’s actually courage and strength To say, I got some shit I don’t know what to do with, and I need some help.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. But you see, like, those are the things. Right? The courage to go first.

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm.

Don Lachance:
It’s what provides a safe space for people who are suffering Right. To take their masks off, and some people connect for the very first time ever in their lives. I’ve Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, that’s sad. Right? Like, they can’t take their hurt.

Don Lachance:
They can’t take their brokenness anywhere. They sit and suffer.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Because they don’t know what to do. They don’t know her to who to turn to.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. How many times in our work I mean, we primarily are in our in our business or other business. We do a lot of executive leadership, business coaching. So people are coming to us with business and leadership challenges. And yet how often Have you heard have I heard the phrase, I’ve never told anyone this before? Yeah. And they start sharing, because they feel comfortable, they feel safe, start sharing about challenges that are not business related, that have nothing to do with the bottom line, or, you You know, business growth from year to year, it’s all about their private pain.

Don Lachance:
Think about that. How can you how can you lead people If you’re not leading from a place of authenticity

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm.

Don Lachance:
And so much, like, you know, we wanna textbook everything, and we wanna walk through things without really having to deal with them.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And we put on this face, like, you know, I made it through that. Like, I’m good. Everything is okay, and you haven’t dealt with the damn thing. Right. You’re still anchored to all of the same pain that everybody else is. And the the more The more men begin to stand up and share their stories and talk about this thing, that’s where leaders are created.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Right. Because now they’re dropping the baggage that’s kept them trapped and locked, unable to really empathize Yeah. With with with a client base, empathized with, with employees. You know? No. It’s it’s this is the way to do it, and it’s the hard ass, You know? Don’t take this personally. It’s just business.

Rob Dale:
Right. Right. Right. It’s just so okay. So we are, we we get this comment all the time, from listeners to the show, the vulnerable, the openness that we are sharing our journey very openly on Living Richly. Yeah. This episode almost didn’t happen. And as much as you and I found that we had a connection that we didn’t neither one of us knew was there, I knew who you were.

Rob Dale:
We had, you know, for years had been in kinda same networking circles. I didn’t know you at all really other than to the first time we met. The 2 of you have a history together. And I remember the 1st time even bringing up your name and saying, oh, I’m gonna get together with like, Don’s listened to the show, and this is going on and mentioning it to you. And you were like, yeah. We’ll have fun with that. Right? But there there is a healing that’s happened here.

Eric Deschamps:
Yep.

Don Lachance:
And

Rob Dale:
I don’t wanna speak for either of yours, but I wanna I want us to talk about it. And I you know, I’m I’m if if we’re not comfortable sharing about it, and Steve Steve

Eric Deschamps:
will let it out, Steve. Whole second. Steve will work wonders in postproduction. But but but I’m

Rob Dale:
I’m setting this up because I I it’s important for our listeners to hear.

Don Lachance:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
This is the journey that we are on.

Eric Deschamps:
Still on.

Rob Dale:
And 2 2, 3 years ago, you couldn’t, I don’t think, Be at the place that you could sit at the table and have this conversation and the healing that’s happened for you. So the I Yeah. I put enough words in your mouth. Maybe maybe from the perspective of the 2 of you, why don’t you share a little of that journey?

Eric Deschamps:
Well, Donnie and I, you you and I go way back. And, I I promised at the top of the show, I’d Try to call you Don Moore, but, we spent, I don’t know, a long time together back in church days. Even before I would go into the ministry and become a pastor and launch, my church, which you were a part of, you were part of that founding group. You and I were part of the, basically, the church band. Right? This is this was a church music like most people don’t Rock

Rob Dale:
and roll.

Eric Deschamps:
It’s like rock and roll church music.

Don Lachance:
It was It was a smoking band.

Eric Deschamps:
It was a smoking band,

Don Lachance:
let’s see,

Eric Deschamps:
bear. Right?

Rob Dale:
With no smoking.

Eric Deschamps:
With with no smoking. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
That we know of.

Eric Deschamps:
That we know of. Yeah. It might have been happening elsewhere. But, Don, you’re the drummer. You, right, an an amazing drummer. And back in the day, people might find this hard to believe, but I was Sporting hair about halfway down my back. Well, if you were to you had a mane that was, like, more impressive than yours ever was. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
A cat. Exactly. The lion. The big red mane that you used to sport, and, I had a a monastery that I sported for far too long, long after it was still in style. And we spent because of our work pre launching my church and then after, we spend even more time together. We would spend literally hours and hours together every week, both in band rehearsals and then at the services and, outings and and the rest of it. And, those were amazing days that didn’t end well. I was a younger leader, didn’t know what I was doing, made a lot of mistakes, unfortunate mistakes, And our relationship, kinda parted ways in a in a not so good way.

Don Lachance:
I, like, I I don’t know that I remember that. I you know? I I think there was a natural separation simply because of things that were unfolding in my life, things that were unfolding in yours. Let it be known here right now that there there was never any animosity Right. On on on my part.

Eric Deschamps:
No same.

Don Lachance:
And and And I think I I think because I was able to see how trapped you were. Like, If if we go right back and we look at how we were even requested, like, There there was Don McDougall, Fred Nasralla Yeah. And myself. Yeah. And we had made a commitment to live openly. Like, even back then Even back then

Eric Deschamps:
even know what that meant, did we? Well, you didn’t know what that meant when we said it?

Don Lachance:
Well, I I I found out pretty quickly because, I was asked to kinda host the men’s group, and I did. And because it was at my place and I was sharing first, Unabashed. Mhmm. Transparency. This is what you’re getting. This is who I am. That was the last meeting that our team ever had.

Rob Dale:
Wait. No. I don’t know. Open. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I I like to think wanna dial it back. I I I like to think

Don Lachance:
Because, like, it was so challenging, they couldn’t come up with anything better. Yeah. You know? But it was the reality of my life. So, you know, I it was part of your wedding party. I remember. You know? So when when you think back to that and and I watched you come up in the church. Like, I I watched you take on The worship team leader role before you ever stood in stepped in to pastor, like, the pastoring role

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
You know? And You just always a go getter. Always a go getter. And and I always admired that, but also realize what kind of trap you were living in at the same time. Because I was working through a whole bunch of stuff on on my own front. Right? Yeah. So, like, no. Yeah. I I always look back at our relationship with incredible, incredible fondness.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. There are lots of Lots of great memories. I remember when you brought up that you had connected with Don. It wasn’t so much Don. There was a mixture there. 1 is It’s that I felt, wow. He I don’t know if he’ll wanna talk to me after all these years. 2, my experience, after leaving the church world like yours, and, we just did a show with the 4 preachers, the 4 x preachers right on reinventing yourself, and, all of us experience leaving that world to be very, very difficult.

Eric Deschamps:
And That there’s a small percentage of people that are loving, supportive, compassionate. The vast majority, there’s a lot of judgment. There’s a lot of Ostracizing, there’s a lot of you’re now on the outside. And so most of my experience with former church people, was not positive. And so I when I first checked back and forth with you, I’m like, hey, Don. So Yeah. Yeah. Heads up.

Eric Deschamps:
This has been my experience. So I just wanna be honest with it. And if you’re still in that space, whatever, then you don’t feel you need to connect with me.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. You answered back and said, yeah. I don’t I don’t put up with Bullshit either.

Don Lachance:
No. Like, be be because it was it was never about that. Right? And and and I thought, man, like, what a journey he’s he’s already traveled. Yeah. To be that upfront in regards to the relationships he’s looking to maintain or even reignite, like, you know, get rid of the shit. Like, you know, I’m dealing with some poison in my life right now, and it doesn’t really matter who embodies that poison. Yeah. Like, you need to distance yourself from

Eric Deschamps:
it regardless

Don Lachance:
of who it is.

Rob Dale:
And and I think it’s so powerful and why I wanted to highlight that, you know, as we move back into conversation about grief. This was important, I think, to To talk about because we do talk about so often on this show that it’s important to set those boundaries and set those Patience. And you did as you came back into that, connection and relationship with you. It’s also interesting as I listen to the 2 of you, How you know, you were sharing how you were feeling like this was how it didn’t end well, and you said, well, that’s my perspective is this. Isn’t this true even in grief or in loss anyway, where often when there’s loss and it’s loss with, in in terms of a relationship, our perception of what that loss is And someone and the other person’s perception may be very different experiences.

Don Lachance:
Mhmm. Absolutely.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Stories we tell ourselves.

Rob Dale:
Stories we tell us.

Don Lachance:
The stories we tell ourselves and what we believe others wanna tell us. Mhmm. Right. Right. Right. With without really wanting to go find out because, like, Jeez. Heaven forbid I build this on truth. Mhmm.

Don Lachance:
Heaven forbid I build this on honesty. Right?

Eric Deschamps:
Oh my

Don Lachance:
god. An image to uphold here.

Eric Deschamps:
Even if the image is because for me, for years, the the deep self loathing I developed for myself, and it didn’t by my mid twenties.

Don Lachance:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
I I always had that, that I don’t know. That voice speaking to me. And then it was my own voice, but it only got worse over time because I I I felt more like a fraud more and more. And and so the stories you know, even our situation and how things unfolded, that was just more evidence that I’m a bad guy, that I’m that I fucked up

Don Lachance:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
And that anyone who gets close to me gets hurt. Yeah. That was part of the story. Right? And I I, again, we wanna get back to the whole, well, we’re talking about grief and loss. We are. Absolutely. This is. Right?

Don Lachance:
We are. It’s it’s undeniable. Right? But, Yeah. Like, these are all the uncomfortable things that people just wanna cloak just wanna put away.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. So to our, audience, our listeners, I told Donnie as we were sitting down to start recording this episode that we know you’re gonna benefit from this show, But if we can be a little bit self indulgent, there is healing and redemption happening in this conversation even now, and in the conversation we had not long ago, over coffee after many, many years

Don Lachance:
Wow. Not seeing it. Yeah. Like, if think about it. Really? Like, I, You know? I I I didn’t think about it because when you experience true connection

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Don Lachance:
When you experience Instant healing. Mhmm. And and and that’s available when somebody simply is willing to give that a second chance. Yeah. Yeah. You know? Like, it and any any discomfort just kinda seeps. Yeah. Like, just it dissipates.

Don Lachance:
Right? It It’s it’s gone.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Wow.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. It’s beautiful. And and, again, just one last slaughter. I remember sitting down for coffee

Eric Deschamps:
You started this. You you let us down this path.

Rob Dale:
3 3 of us 3 of us sat down for coffee. And, again, you and I are obviously very close and know each other, Extremely well. And, I remember, at one point, I needed to go, and I said, okay. I need to go now. And I was expecting you to say, yeah. You know, this has been great, and yet you were you were like, let’s stay. And I and the thought that went through my mind is, Oh, there’s some beautiful healing happening here.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
And I I remember leaving there so excited, not even for any of the anything to do with me and Terry and my family. The most excited I was was, oh, there’s some healing happening here between the 2 of you, and I thought that was so beautiful to to see that happening.

Don Lachance:
For for your great Friend. Yeah. Right. Someone you care deeply about. Yeah. Like, you know? Yeah. He may have shared stories with you that, like, I’m unaware of. And Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Not that they’re important because he got to

Eric Deschamps:
share No. Further, Rakuten, there’s not been any of that. Oh, no. The story I stole, I’m not gonna tell another show, but the story of the Christmas float, That story

Rob Dale:
Yeah. That story is legendary,

Eric Deschamps:
and I have told it everywhere I go. You can That that one.

Rob Dale:
That’s good. Google that. Or for 14.99, That’d be a private message.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Join our Facebook group,

Rob Dale:
our private Facebook group, and we make sure

Eric Deschamps:
the story there. Content in the Facebook group,

Rob Dale:
but that’ll

Eric Deschamps:
be their own them.

Rob Dale:
Somebody is sitting down with you. So 2 things I wanna ask. 1 is just the distinction. You made it very clear to us, at the beginning of our show Just before we went on air about the distinction between counselor and, specialist Yeah. And using that language, I’m curious about that. But then this well, maybe I’ll start there. The other one’s a bit of a deeper question. So

Don Lachance:
I’m I’m an educator. Like, the information I’ve gotten access to will serve anybody who’s willing to pick it up and and apply. They they don’t necessarily need me. The fact that I’ve mercilessly worked Through all of this myself, which is what really, enables us to go first, like, bravely, you know, to use your words.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And and and create that space for people is one thing. But, you know, I and I I tell people right up front, I’m I’m not a counselor. I’m not a therapist, but the education I will lead you to or provide you with is very therapeutic.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right. Right.

Don Lachance:
Right. So they get to experience that, you know.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. So as an educator, and I love that that the truth can set you free. Right? You embrace it, do something with it. What would you say are some of the more and I I know I’m I’m No. That’s good. Stepping in

Rob Dale:
here, but

Eric Deschamps:
I, What are some most the most common misconceptions about grief and loss that you run into when you’re helping people approach it differently?

Don Lachance:
Well, I I I think it’s universal because, it’s the discomfort. It’s the inability or Just the fear. Let me let me address that. It’s not fear. We often dress shame based emotions up as fear because that’s publicly accepted.

Eric Deschamps:
And shame better than shame.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. Shame is something that we have been conditioned to never talk about. Right? So if if you start peeling back layers and looking at the things that you conjure up as being fearful for you. And and the second thing is you’ve lost people in the conversation because they don’t give a shit what you’re fearful of. They’re they’re off conjuring up all the imagery and things that they’re fearful of.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
You know? Right. So when when you look at that but get getting back, to answer that, and how did I Get lost in this. I hate that

Eric Deschamps:
when I make a point. Common misconception.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. The common misconception is that we have to do this alone. Mhmm. And, we don’t. So, you know, the the skills that we And and I think this applies in regards to anybody, and and what they do comes from a listening perspective. Like, We we hear what people say. We listen for what they don’t because those are the things that are going to provide you with the keys to some of their pain. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. You know, so they won’t talk about it. They’ll skirt around it and, you know, so the the common thing is just how skilled everybody is at not dealing with their emotional tension.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I think one of the skill sets is that’s highly attuned or highly, developed in most people is avoidance.

Don Lachance:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? Avoiding what they need to face. Mhmm. We we just did an episode with a great client friend of ours, Sophie Perrier, and, on on lessons in leadership. She, health care for over 25 years as a nurse. She ran the MOLFOR, emergency department for 4 to 5 years, now runs a large Local law firm, I mean, I tell people everywhere, she’s probably one of the most in the top 1% of leaders that I’ve ever had the privilege of working with, and she talks about just do hard. Do the hard thing Yeah. And how she embraced that from an early age, And what that did was developing her resilience and strength and the belief that no matter what shows up in her life, I got a track record of doing hard shit. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
But when we avoid the hard thing, right, we think it’s soft to go first. We think it’s soft, But we actually remain soft when we don’t do the hard thing. It’s like a muscle that never gets

Don Lachance:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
Right, challenged. Well, it it it kinda goes soft on you.

Don Lachance:
Yep. Right. Yep. It’s never worked. It’s never worked. It’s never had to.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. And and there’s only every everybody around you is encouraging you to remain that way because the minute you step out of that And become an example of somebody who’s been willing to talk about really uncomfortable things that you’ve been set free of. All of a sudden, they’re down this comparison path.

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm. Right.

Don Lachance:
You know? And and that shit starts tying into our competency levels.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Right? Yep. When we’re, unaware of stuff, like, we even have expressions for it. Like, ignorance is bliss. Right. Think about that. Yeah. Like, you know, and then some asshole like me comes along and makes you aware of something, and all of a sudden, like, woah.

Eric Deschamps:
Oh, I wish I lost

Rob Dale:
uncomfortable. There’s no bliss anymore.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Where did the bliss go?

Rob Dale:
The bliss.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. So now I’m consciously incompetent. Yeah. Yeah. Right. How comfortable is that? Right.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Nobody likes to feel incompetent. No.

Rob Dale:
No. We’ve got people listening, who without doubt are dealing with all kinds of different types of grief and loss. Maybe, if you would to even, the camera over, to the right here that, maybe speak to To the camera, speak to those that might be listening right now that are at the early stages of they they know that they need to do something with this grief and loss, But they don’t know what. What would be those, those first, what what what would you say to them?

Don Lachance:
I think the first thing, Rob, would be Acknowledge where you are. Mhmm. Because until you acknowledge it, there won’t be a wrestle for you to get to a place of acceptance. Reach out. If if you wanna reach out to me, please feel free to do that. I know there’ll be a link in, In in this episode somewhere for you to reach out, have a read through my bio, and here’s what I’ll be able to guarantee you with. I might not be the one to help you, but after being in this business for the amount of time I’ve been in, I know someone who will, And I’m not afraid to connect that dot. Mhmm.

Don Lachance:
So reach out.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. That’s powerful. It’s powerful. And and again, for folks that are, There’s dealing with it. There’s dealing with it. We’ve talked about avoidance, hiding, numbing. Right? Then there’s, an awakening that starts to happen, an awareness that starts to come. And and I’ve, in my journey, I’ve come to realize, I used to think that the past was something you get over.

Eric Deschamps:
Right? Yeah. That that that was the sum total of it. You get over your past shit. And what I’ve come to realize, yes, there are there’s trauma we need to heal from. There are unresolved issues that often we’re waiting for an outside Source to help bring closure to whether or not that outside source or other person is able to help us come to closure. Closure Really belongs to us. That’s our work to do. Can well, I I I just Push me.

Eric Deschamps:
Push me. Push me. Push me. Yeah.

Don Lachance:
Well, because when I hear that, right Yeah. Like, Seeking closure? Man, people have been living closed up for way too long.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right.

Don Lachance:
Right. Let’s strive for openness. Let’s strive We’re, like, letting light into the love’s dark places.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Yeah. That’s all good.

Eric Deschamps:
About. Right. Right. And it and that’s a journey that you can do for yourself. And so for me, the past now is in my past, yes, there are things that I wish were different.

Don Lachance:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
And that I held myself to tremendous Judgment against, and I’ve come to forgive and learning to continue to forgive as more and more layers, become, become aware of them. But there’s also in in my past, everyone’s past, the seeds of greatness, the seeds of growth, the seeds of who we truly are that had been with us all along, but maybe got lost in in in all of that. Right? How how do you help Folks move from I mean, just healing and alone, and and acceptance and and is is an amazing experience. How do you channel that into deeper personal growth?

Don Lachance:
Well, I I don’t. I just create that space, and I ask the hard questions. Right. Because, like, You know, I’ve specialized in doing my work 1 on 1 because I just don’t think people are comfortable enough to open up to a depth where they can get some real help in a group setting.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Don Lachance:
Right.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. It’s

Don Lachance:
You know? Yeah. So and and and I learned this early on because I’d meet people in in a public place like a coffee shop to have the initial conversations and Watching people break

Eric Deschamps:
down Yeah.

Don Lachance:
You know. And and here, everything in me is trying to get people to connect to that honest place in them, and The conditioning kicks in. Like, I need to be strong. Yeah. I I can’t break down in public like this. Like so it’s it’s really being able to Sit and listen, hear what they aren’t saying

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Don Lachance:
And connect them to the pain, letting them know that they’ll be able to work through that. Yeah. Yeah. It’s powerful. And and and experience wellness Yeah. Wholeness.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. I got 1 more question for you, and I that our time is almost up here, this is we are clearly going to have to have Don back. And Well, that and that’s okay, isn’t it? Absolutely.

Don Lachance:
We we

Rob Dale:
need to have you come back because There’s so much around grief that we’re

Eric Deschamps:
gonna process. You’re gonna ask before can we I I I’m can you give us the cold notes version? You have made available a free ebook that

Don Lachance:
we’re gonna

Eric Deschamps:
make available to our listeners, and, free preview will first go to our Facebook group, right, where who get Exclusive content first. But, I I an ebook on overcoming loss and grief, what can they expect to find in there?

Don Lachance:
They’re gonna find, just a description of the 6 myths that keep them trapped.

Rob Dale:
Okay.

Don Lachance:
You know? And it’s how we’ve been conditioned. Yeah. And when you think about this, you know, we start taking in our values and, at at a very young age. From the people we love and trust the most, our parents. Now let me ask you a question, gents. Were your parents equipped with any form of truth to set you on a pathway to resilience and freedom?

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Don Lachance:
You know? Like and and there’s a bull

Eric Deschamps:
I plead the 5th.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. There’s a there’s a bold universal truth

Eric Deschamps:
Right. That

Don Lachance:
we all It it it’s the the way maybe I I view the world, the way I I view things, I don’t view things For me, it’s always the flip of what it is. Right? It’s what could be. Yeah. Like, you know, it we’re not equipped to deal with loss and with deep emotional trauma. Mhmm. In fact, the exact opposite we’re conditioned not to. Right. So Right.

Don Lachance:
We get to that place. It’s swimming up the green, isn’t it? Yeah. Really swimming. And people People really kinda reinforce it because if you do make a decision to share something intimate with somebody, They’re most apt to tell you things that although are intellectually accurate, will be completely void of any Any any freaking emotional value. Here’s a perfect example. We break up with a girlfriend. What are your buddies telling you?

Eric Deschamps:
Move on.

Don Lachance:
Yeah. There’s more. Yeah. Plenty of efficiency. Right? Like, you know, all of those terms. Yep. And, like, we get bombarded with them.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So good.

Rob Dale:
So, yes, we’re gonna offer that, that book, the ebook, the 22 page ebook, to our listeners. We’re gonna start. We’ve mentioned it a number of times. We’re gonna be introducing that in our Facebook But group, if you aren’t a part of the face group, group, I encourage you to go to the website, living richly dot me. You’re gonna find that information there. We’ll talk about that again as we wrap up here. Last question for you. What does living richly mean to you?

Don Lachance:
Pathway to freedom? It’s finding a community of people who are willing to accept the shit that their lives are made up of and move through it despite some of the discomfort. Mhmm. Standing in a realistic position and saying, here’s who I am Yeah. And not being apologetic about it, you know, that’s the community that I wanna be part of. That’s It’s the that that’s that’s the that’s the pool I wanna

Eric Deschamps:
swim in. I love it. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. That’s so good. And Powerful. And part of why we launched the Facebook group is We wanted to provide a place where I recognize the community itself. There’s been some incredible Sharing that’s been happening in there, and people have been sharing a bit of their story. Yeah. I think part of the the kind of the side effect of that group will be people who We’ll connect to each other, and I’m hoping there’ll be people that’ll build relationships outside of even just the Facebook group

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
With other people in there. So, again, If you haven’t, I want to encourage you to, check out, go to our website, living richly dot me, and you will find out All the information about how you can become a part of, the, the Facebook group. We are so excited with some of the stuff that we’re gonna be doing in 2020 4. So we encourage you to like and subscribe. Certainly share and comment on, this episode if it has spoken to you. We are excited about not only just a 22 page, ebook that you’re providing, but we’re

Eric Deschamps:
gonna be for part 2.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Stay tuned for, part 2 of this Donnie,

Eric Deschamps:
this has been amazing.

Rob Dale:
It has been great. And I wanna thank you so much for your openness, for coming in here. You made the comment about go first. You’re not afraid to go first, to share your own story and your own struggles. And through that, you open up the door and give people permission to do the same. This has been absolutely incredible. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Really rich.

Rob Dale:
Thank you everyone for taking the time to listen today. We really do encourage you to just get out there and live your best

.