Living Richly Through Reflection

Living Richly Through Reflection

Rob Dale:
What are you learning from your experiences? Well, experiences in themselves don’t teach you anything.

Kate Beere:
Whatever you get triggered by, how you react will always show up the same until you actually start doing some of the work.

Eric Deschamps:
How much time in our lives do we wanna spend in this meaningless cycle of repeating the same thoughts, the same behaviors.

Wendy Dodds:
It can be also used, and it should be used for personal growth. Right. Yeah. For nurturing yourself, rediscovering yourself, self, being able to align yourself more with your values, your goals, your aspirations.

Rob Dale:
Some of the most, powerful, great leaders throughout history, we’re reflectors.

Wendy Dodds:
Welcome to the Living Rich Lee podcast. If you are joining us for the very first time, we’d love to give you a warm welcome into the Living Rich Sleep Nation. And if you are a returning listener, welcome back. Today, we’re talking about a topic that resonates, I think, deeply with all of us.

Rob Dale:
It sucks.

Wendy Dodds:
The power of reflection. In fact, we reflected so much over the past, several weeks that we decided to redesign our set.

Kate Beere:
Nice. That looks amazing. Amazing. Team effort. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Warm. Awesome. Cozy. I mean Yeah. You know, Kate and I had some of the, input on, you know, the flare of, how it looks, but, I think you guys participated a little a little bit.

Eric Deschamps:
A little

Rob Dale:
bit. Yeah. A little bit.

Eric Deschamps:
You did all the work.

Rob Dale:
We

Eric Deschamps:
did what we were told. This is like it’s like it’s probably like most households. Right?

Rob Dale:
Right. Hang to do list. We got all we got was the honey do list

Eric Deschamps:
and did all the the muscle.

Wendy Dodds:
But Right.

Kate Beere:
And look at the results.

Wendy Dodds:
It looks amazing. The result. Right. You guys did a good job at reflecting on your instructions.

Rob Dale:
I I don’t think we reflected much. We just know what we were told.

Wendy Dodds:
So speaking of reflection, I think this is one topic that quite a few people message us about is around reflecting, but we wanna kinda turn this into a more of a positive spin on how we can tie that into, our day to day lives. So let’s just jump right into this. And, of course, I’m looking right at Kate because she’s my girl.

Kate Beere:
Each other.

Wendy Dodds:
Let’s if we think about reflection, shin. What is a reflective lifestyle mean to us mean to you?

Kate Beere:
Yeah. Great question. I think it’s It’d be interesting to go around the table and and hear from her. I know for me, it’s I, like, equate it to, like, evolution of self. So that that sort of reflective practice for me. Like, I I use the term rinse and repeat, and I don’t mean, like, rinse and repeat the same stuff all the time, but using a lot of the same tools to dig deeper and deeper and deeper into myself, to understand why I you know, what are those beliefs that are are down there that are driving some of my behavior? For me, it’s just that rinse and repeat to evolve self.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.

Eric Deschamps:
I love that. I and I really I’m excited about today’s conversation because we’ve We talk about reflection all the time Yeah. Yeah. In the show on the show, but we’ve never actually dedicated an entire No. Episode to it. So I think this is gonna be Fantastic. For me, when I think of the, what it means to me, I think of music. I think of a sheet of music where you have notes and you have rests, And the rests are just as important as the notes.

Eric Deschamps:
As a matter of fact, I read, recently that rests are when music is silent. And without think about that on a sheet of music. Without rests, all the notes would just crash into each other, and it would be total chaos. So and and when we think of reflection, think of for every spoken word

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
How many thoughts do we have to every spoken word.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm. And we already have for most of us, already have a reflective practice. I would say, it’s it’s well, it’s a reflect it’s a thinking practice, But the power of reflection is, for me, reflective lifestyle is how to use that more deliberately in terms of shaping the life, And and the and the future

Rob Dale:
that I I I like. I just the idea that we already have this, that the thinking is happening. We just haven’t focused on it. We haven’t tuned into it.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Rob Dale:
I know for me, when I think of reflection, that is where the the real learning happens. We We often will hear people talk about the idea that, well, what are you learning from your experiences? Well, experiences in themselves don’t teach you anything.

Kate Beere:
Right.

Rob Dale:
Right. You can experience all kinds of things, but if you’re jumping from experience to experience to experience without taking that time to think Yeah. To thinking. And I think that’s really what for the reflection, reflective process or practice for me is really that idea of being able to sit back and go, what am I learning from the experience I just had.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Totally.

Wendy Dodds:
And I think taking the time to actually learn. So you tied in silence. You tied in learning.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
And we often run away from silence. Right? So when when I think about self reflection, I think of that as Self reflection is often the medicine of choosing to not play the victim card. Yeah. So choosing to sit in that silence, choosing to really hone in on what it is we wanna reflect on because a lack of self awareness Yeah. Or self reflection, because the 2 can be tied in really well, can often be poison to our soul. And the only way to kinda, fill your soul with that medicine is that reflection and that review. It’s hard.

Eric Deschamps:
It can be

Rob Dale:
so hard.

Wendy Dodds:
Really, really hard.

Eric Deschamps:
It can be so hard. And I I think, like, again, to whoever to the folks watching the show right now, they’re already the topic. You’re saying, oh, I’ve tried it. Can’t do it. Wanna remind you that worry is simply negative meditation. Right? So you actually have years years years of practice Reflecting. You’ve just been reflecting on the wrong things. I’m hoping today’s conversation can help you channel the same energy

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
And and habits that you have Yeah. To do it more deliberately.

Rob Dale:
No.

Wendy Dodds:
Awesome. So if we think about our lifestyle and how to tie that, power of reflection into a lifestyle, let’s maybe kinda just share some personal story. We we love getting personal with our stories. We do. But maybe something, that everyone could share, briefly about a time when reflection significantly impacted your decisions or your life.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. I know for me, I talked about it on a previous episode, but, like, when I I write. So journaling, reflective practice, and so I will always write down where I wanna be. So those I am statements into a future state. So, like, when I told the story of I wrote down where I wanna be in 2023, and then, like, 8 out of 9 of them all came true. So that the power of reflection is is is also just pen to paper sometimes writing down. And so for me, when, You know, you look back a year later and all you’ve ticked all these boxes of all where you wanted to be. For me, there’s there’s some some some power there of understanding that when you get reflective and think about where you wanna be and what you want and actually put pen to paper to then see the outcome of that was really powerful for me.

Rob Dale:
Same. Yeah. Yeah. I’m I was gonna say I’m in so naturally, I’m an introvert. And as an introvert, reflection and quiet and, you know, taking time in my own Thoughts is something that I I I kinda do a bit naturally. I it’s something I’m very comfortable with. I think of probably one of the the most powerful reflective seasons for me would have been back in 2008 when I did a I did a motorcycle trip. I’ve talked about it on other episodes.

Rob Dale:
Spent, 3 weeks That

Eric Deschamps:
was Arizona.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. I spent 3 road for from Ottawa to to, actually, to California, San Diego Right. Right up the Pacific Coast Highway down through Death Valley. But, you know, 5, 6, 700 miles a day on a motorcycle where all you have is the motor, the the Harley’s dump, dump, dump is what you’re re how does it go? Yeah. It’s dump dump dump. And, it’s actually not. It’s not. It doesn’t

Wendy Dodds:
sound like that at all.

Rob Dale:
No. It doesn’t sound like that. I’m gonna get every person who same Every Harley owner gets so What the hell?

Eric Deschamps:
Sorry. All the Harley fans out there, we’re so sorry.

Rob Dale:
But the, And I one of the most powerful moments in fact, it was the moment when I made the decision. There was a building up to this. I had been riding now for about 2 weeks, but sitting in Death Valley. And I had, I I pulled over on the side of the road. I’ve got some beautiful pictures, taking these shots of of the of Death Valley world that I was going to it was time to start living for myself. It took 5 years after that. Sure. But that reflective moment of just sitting there and really getting crystal clear on what matters to me, happened during that road trip.

Eric Deschamps:
Wow. Yeah. Wow. And transformational for you

Rob Dale:
for sure. Absolutely. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I Thinking about this, in, about the show and the top today’s topic, reflected back. I I said reflection’s been an important part of my journey from Even my late teens. So I think I can go back to my late teens and track when I first started to journal. And when I say journal for me, that’s probably my most powerful way to get my thoughts out and get clear on what’s going on in my inner life. And not that I do it every day, even do it every week, but it’s just been with me all these years. But the most significant moment, I I’ve I’ve talked about it on the show. In many ways, it was part of what sparked this whole experience, was my great awakening in spring of 2022, where a bunch of things came together.

Eric Deschamps:
And when I go back to my journal entries, Those several few months from April end of April till the end of that summer, the so much transformation happening, and it’s because of of sitting with my thoughts and getting clear on what I want, who I am, what my values are. Yeah. And I think that’s what’s so important. I think most of us go through life. Again, we’re we’re it’s we’re on that proverbial, wheel. Right? We’re just running, and we’re not thinking enough. And and so time is passing, but we’re not necessarily growing. You Time does not guarantee.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
Right? You

Rob Dale:
were sharing, some of those by text. You would be sharing some of those reflective moments during that time with me, and and some of them were so powerful, so emotional. And even on some of your social media. People who follow you on social media go back and look at some of those posts from, you know, a couple years ago, you’ll see where you’re

Wendy Dodds:
brief examples. The first one would be, and I spoke about it in my story, but the traumatic accident that I experienced in 2018. And So, you know, went through all of that stuff after being in the hospital for quite some time, but then the feeling of reflecting as soon as I stepped out of the hospital. Still had my neck brace on and all of that stuff was still all banged up and bruised up. I had my girls by my side, and I’ll never forget the feeling. Well, I’ll never forget the feeling of stepping out onto the pavement, seeing cars go by, like everybody’s living their their life, and everybody’s, you know, moving on, but just hearing the birds, feeling the sun on my face, breathing in the fresh air, and it was just such a reflective moment of, holy shit. I have a second chance.

Eric Deschamps:
Mhmm. Wow.

Wendy Dodds:
And then the second1 would be my marriage, and I think a lot of people can relate to this. So this is more of a reflection of so I left a 20 year marriage, and I’ve learned to not reflect on I should’ve, had conversations sooner about how I was feeling. I should’ve made other decisions. I’m reflecting more on that was 20 years of my life. That was a great part of my life. That was a story. That was a chapter. And now I’m reflecting on what I learned from that, what came out of that.

Wendy Dodds:
No regrets around that, but more reflecting on this is how it’s helped me learn now to reflect my future, my

Eric Deschamps:
journey in the future. So good. So good. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
It it it’s interesting that when we talk about our stories of selection. Mhmm. A lot of people when they think reflection, they think it’s, like, all woo woo and all whatever. Thump thump

Rob Dale:
and Is that thump? That’s got on with woo woo.

Eric Deschamps:
That a surprise today show. That’ll be

Rob Dale:
that’ll be that’ll be

Eric Deschamps:
a new title.

Wendy Dodds:
Pumped up and

Rob Dale:
woo woo.

Wendy Dodds:
Make those our new hashtags.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Sliding day food. Everything. And whooped up by.

Wendy Dodds:
But there there is a lot. Same.

Rob Dale:
And it’s all about how you do it. Right? It. Thump tump. Or it could be thump tump. Or thump tump. Woo hoo. Sorry. Wow.

Rob Dale:
Wow. Squirrel.

Wendy Dodds:
I was gonna say when you thumb, thumb, I usually.

Eric Deschamps:
We’re so sorry.

Kate Beere:
We’re so sorry. Version of the podcast.

Rob Dale:
This is

Wendy Dodds:
where we’re going

Kate Beere:
now. You say. You think? Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
So This question ties in really well, so we’ll kinda bring it back to the

Kate Beere:
deeper discussion.

Wendy Dodds:
But what are some common misconceptions about living and practicing and embracing a reflective lifestyle.

Rob Dale:
Well, so just to tie in what you just said, I think a lot of people, men, it’s in particular, I think, Feel like struggling to make the connection between my on their questions and what I’m about to say. Yeah. Whatever I’m gonna represent.

Eric Deschamps:
We’re all

Wendy Dodds:
This is not stick.

Rob Dale:
Well, especially because of the language I’m about to use. It’s soft. No. But but for A lot, especially guys Yeah. They see reflection whether that’s through meditation or, you know, when you hear journaling. I remember the 1st time somebody said to me, you you know, why don’t you try journaling? I was like, what? Like, dear diary? Yeah. Like, I’m not a 13 teen year old girl. Right? Like but but that’s the thinking is that it’s that it’s soft, that it is that kind of the the it it’s the touchy feely, I don’t have time for that.

Rob Dale:
It’s silly. And I think that’s a big one that people have to overcome is the power of some of the most, powerful, great leaders throughout history

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Were reflectors. Yeah. And and to recognize that it’s not something that is just meant for people writing in a diary or something like that. But it’s a powerful, powerful exercise.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. And too, I think for a lot of men and for women, but I also think for men. It doesn’t have to be super time consuming. Like, I think people think it’s like, it’s this big thing. Yeah. So, like, this huge lifestyle change, and it it can be 5 minutes.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Kate Beere:
And it could be 5 minutes a week if that’s where you start. It just doesn’t I think we get in our head that it has to be this mass of, you know, I need to meditate for, like, 10 hours a week. And it doesn’t have to be that. It can be small. And I do think When we talk about reflective practices tied to that is I think we’re, as a society, all okay with people carving out time to go. Like, if a New Year’s resolution, I’m gonna go to the gym. Right? I’m gonna work out. We if someone says, oh, I’m you know, I wanna get healthy.

Kate Beere:
I’m going to the gym. And they’re like, I’m carving out time. Or everyone’s like, that’s fantastic. Congratulations. If they’re going 3 times a week, that’s 3 hours a week. No one questions it.

Rob Dale:
Right. Yeah.

Kate Beere:
But if I said I’m I wanna carve out time to to do some self reflection and and meditate. And they’re like, what? Like, I’m young. I do 3 hours of meditation a week. People have this mindset of like, oh, well, it must be nice to have 3 hours. Like, it’s okay. It’s so true. It is how we look SCAT IT. Whereas, like, there are days for me where I make a choice where I’m like, I need to fix I need to get my head right this morning

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
Over my body. So I’m gonna meditate. I only have 45 minutes. I’m gonna meditate and not work out. And I’m not saying it has to be a choice, but it’s amazing when you can reframe that for yourself that that self reflection is feeding your brain, which is as important as taking care of yourself Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Physically. Yeah. Well, I love that because I think, again, to to add to that, the notion of, well, I just can’t find the time Yeah. To to, meditate or reflect or or or or think about what I’m actually doing with my life. Like, all the statistics show both whether you’re south of the border, north of the border, north of the, or south of the 49 parallel. In the US and Canada, the average adult has 4 to 5 hours of leisure time a day. May not feel like that. Yep.

Eric Deschamps:
Because we’re we we live such, you know, busy lifestyles running from one thing to the next. But the reality is we actually have a lot more disposable time than we think. Think about the amount of time you scroll on social media or you watch mindless television. Yeah. Right? Like, investing some of that time. You’re never gonna find time. You’re gonna have to make time.

Rob Dale:
We make

Wendy Dodds:
time. 24 hours. Exactly. Now if you take a look at your screen time Screen Time app on your phone.

Eric Deschamps:
Took that off my phone.

Wendy Dodds:
Garrett

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. It’s all Apple.

Rob Dale:
But it it is funny, though, because most people I I hear from people all the time how much they hate that app, because it tells them the truth. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. It doesn’t lie.

Wendy Dodds:
It doesn’t lie. It doesn’t lie. Yeah. Lie. I think for, me, a big misconception, and I hear people say this all the time, is it has to be not has to be. Sorry. It’s more for people who have problems. I I don’t I don’t need to must have a lot of problems.

Wendy Dodds:
But for people who

Rob Dale:
are I do. Yeah. Yeah. Alright. Thanks, bro.

Wendy Dodds:
No. No. It’s okay. So for people who are facing problems Yeah. Or challenges versus using it as a proactive tool. It’s not necessarily about troubleshooting, so, yes, it can be. So, say, when you were going through your season in 2022, troubleshooting kinda and pinpointing Yeah. As you went through that journey, and that’s such a great thing that we can do when we are reflecting.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
But it can be also used, and it should be used for personal growth. Yeah, for nurturing yourself, rediscovering yourself, being able to align yourself more with your values, your goals, your aspirations, which will typically change, maybe not from year to year to year, but every so often, like friendships, things are gonna evolve.

Kate Beere:
It’s the

Wendy Dodds:
same thing with, your reflections. A lot of people think that reflection also you have to sit in silence is good. But sit in silence and go like, to what you said, like, have this whole practice. And for some people, that works really well, but for other people, that just doesn’t work well. So you don’t need to have all of this fancy stuff and and have this special room and everything. You could do it anywhere. Yeah. And you can At any time.

Kate Beere:
You can combine some. I know for me, like, I heard Brene Brown say, like, her meditation was when she swims.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Kate Beere:
And so, you know, combining physical activity with, you know, doing Yeah. You know, taking care of your mind at the same time. And I know for me, running was like that, and I listen to very loud music when I run. But when I used to run a lot, that for me was I, like, I would just get so clear on everything. It was meditation for me, super reflective. So I think, you know, it’s it’s you can combine 2 come together to your point when they just you don’t have to sit in a quiet room with your legs crossed going like this.

Eric Deschamps:
Totally. Totally.

Wendy Dodds:
Some people love that, and other people like tying it into physical activity. Other polite timing and other things, but I think it’s an ongoing process. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
100%. I don’t know how

Wendy Dodds:
many times I’ve heard people say, I’ve tried it. It doesn’t work. You have

Eric Deschamps:
to do it.

Wendy Dodds:
But you have to try something else. You have to do it for more than a week.

Eric Deschamps:
More than a New Year’s resolution.

Wendy Dodds:
A month. Right? Like, it’s it’s It’s not a, you know, take this pill 3 times a week, and you’ll be and you’ll lose £20. Reflection is the same thing. Right? It’s that ongoing intentional practice of of pouring into yourself.

Eric Deschamps:
I I would add 1 more myth that I think would be another word where you’re processing, either past issues that are holding you back or you’re processing life in real time. You’re gonna come face to face with difficult emotions. You’re gonna come face to face perhaps with difficult memories. And so in the moment, it can be painful. It can be uncomfortable, and I think that’s why we avoid it. We we we don’t like discomfort our in our society.

Wendy Dodds:
We we hate discomfort.

Eric Deschamps:
It, and so we run from it. And I think there is. I agree that there are so many different ways to live a a reflective practice Yeah. In sport, in in physical activity. Even in conversation, for me, I I see these conversations, we get together once a month. We usually record, what, 3 or 4 episodes every time we come together for the show. And to me, this is actually part of my reflective practice.

Rob Dale:
We get to dive deep

Eric Deschamps:
of all of our audience members who send us questions and thoughts and and comments. The idea though that there is, a power in in in in silence. Right. There is time where sitting down and turning everything off, even if it’s just for a few minutes and getting present to what’s going on inside. Maybe uncomfortable in the moment, but you wanna talk about short term pain for long term gain, I don’t think there’s a place that that could be more true.

Rob Dale:
I I’ve told this story before, around, that I used to when I would listen to podcasts, or audiobooks was when I walked. And I take, you know, and I had, you know, the dog that I had a time, take him for a, you know, long walk or whatever, Live downtown, walk around Parliament Hill or whatever. And I remember listening to a podcast where the guy’s talking about being in the moment and really experience that. And I realized that I wasn’t in the moment at all, that I wasn’t paying any attention to my sir I was lost in the the the audiobook I was listening to. And, ever since then, I’ve turned off. I don’t wear headphones when I’m out walking or, doing any of that because I want that is one of the most powerful times of reflection for me Yeah. To be able to have the silence where nothing else is invading my intention. I and I love that.

Eric Deschamps:
I so love that you brought that up because I think for anyone who’s into self improvement and personal growth. We can see every moment, as an opportunity to learn. Right. And, and so we’re we’re we’ve got the podcasts on in the car. We’ve got or and listen. If you’re listening to the Living Richly podcast Keep

Rob Dale:
it on. Really well.

Eric Deschamps:
Keep it on. You don’t wanna turn that shit off. But we but or we’ve got the audiobooks going or we’ve got Sometimes, we need to actually turn off the inputs and process what we’re actually listening to, what we’re actually reading. It’s not necessarily the volume. I I remember a friend of mine set a goal to read this insane number of books in a year. And at first, I thought, wow. That’s really impressive. And then it didn’t take me long as I processed this, but how much are you actually able to internalize the content when you’re just jumping from one thing to the other, and you’re never paying attention to what it’s stirring up in your inner life right

Rob Dale:
now.

Wendy Dodds:
We had a goal for ourselves last year to read 10 pages a day. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. It’s yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Like, that’s great.

Wendy Dodds:
We’ve changed it, though, to 20 minutes a day because

Rob Dale:
Love that.

Wendy Dodds:
I started finding myself on days where I was rushed or busy and not really in the mood to read. I would just read the pages just to check off. But I’m, like, absorbing things. Right? So now that we’re doing it for 20 minutes a day, if I wanna read the same page 3 times just to feel the words, just sit with it. Yeah. It’s just it’s such a small tweak, but

Rob Dale:
It’s huge. It was Yeah. Such a small tweak.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. Set.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I love that. It’s like it’s like there’s so many different ways to take in, information now. Right?

Rob Dale:
Like, we

Eric Deschamps:
used to say it’s all about reading. Listen. I’m a big reader. I think reading’s great, but with podcasts and audiobooks and and and blogs and all kinds even short form content on social media. I mean, there are channels on TikTok insta that you can follow that it’s it’s it’s like morsels, like, you know, 60 second morsel wisdom. Yeah. There’s so many ways to take it in, But without a reflective practice, it’s like you’re lacking the glue to hold it all together. Exactly.

Eric Deschamps:
It’s not a big we’re not it’s it’s it’s kinda coming in and going out, but it’s not sticking because reflection is what helps it stick. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
So if we think about lack, because you just said lack of reflection. Yeah. If we tie that into our next, question about this, so how does lack of reflection impact our day to day? Maybe, like, 1 or 2 quick things that

Rob Dale:
Well, I know so I know for me, again, because as I said before, as an introvert, I like the time to process and think through things. When I don’t, here’s what I I know I’m not reflecting when I’m being reactive. Mhmm. And I am Yeah. I am responding in the moment, and I’m being and I and and almost I look back and go, damn. If I’d just taken a little bit of time to think through. Yeah. So whether that’s a conversation, whether that’s a decision, what whatever it might be Yeah.

Rob Dale:
The reflective process allows me to be much more proactive in the decisions that I’m making rather than reactive.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. I think a I think a lot of people who aren’t, you know, in doing reflective practices are really, like, caught in this cycle where you repeat the same mistakes, and that mistake’s a strong word there, but the same behavioral patterns show up.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
So how you react, whatever you get triggered by, how you react will always show up the same until you actually start doing some of the work. And still you still you like, you have to start thinking about, okay. Interesting. Why am I reacting that way? And that takes work to be able to do that, but it starts with reflection. Okay. Like, why did I get so pissed off in that moment. Like, what? What? Like, what was that about? Because I’m not really mad about this. I’m not mad that someone threw a ping pong ball at my head.

Kate Beere:
I don’t know where that came from. It’s here.

Rob Dale:
Did you

Kate Beere:
do that? Hang it.

Eric Deschamps:
No. But now I feel like doing it.

Rob Dale:
I don’t

Kate Beere:
Don’t even know the ping pong table. But, you know, in the moment, you can get really heated about something. And what reflective practice allows you to do is afterwards, sometimes, not in the heat of the moment, sit down and be like, Okay. I’m not mad about that. What am I really upset about? And it could be about something totally different that that person did. It could be something from way back when, but sometimes just sitting with that. And so I think if you’re not doing the reflection, you’re likely going to be stuck in this cycle like hamster wheel. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
I call it like the same playlist. It’s just playing oh, you’re stuck on the same playlist, or or you’re, like, manifesting Bill Murray in roundabout day. Yeah. And you’re just reliving the same thing. We’ve said on the show before that the beauty of how the universe works is When there’s a lesson to be learned, if you fail to learn it in your current context with the current set of actors Yeah. And players that are involved in that situation, There it’s not failure so much as the universe is just gonna give you another chance to learn it perhaps in a different context with a different set of players to address that issue until you pass the test. The question is, how much do we wanna how much time in our lives do we wanna spend in this meaningless cycle of repeating the same thoughts, the same behaviors. We’re gonna talk about it, in an upcoming show on the thoughts that sabotage our lives.

Eric Deschamps:
But When we talk about, our thoughts, the average person will have 60 to 70000 thoughts in a given day. 80% of those are negative and the same as yesterday. So you wanna be talk talk about being stuck in your past. Reflective practice helps us break that cycle And say, how do I wanna show up different? Mhmm.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. I used to call it, in my old preacher days, I had this illustration I would tell, and people always got a a a chuckle out of it. They had a lot of fun with it, and I Go I I won’t go on and do the whole thing because it could be lengthy, but I refer to the same old I I refer to the same old disease.

Eric Deschamps:
Yes. Same

Rob Dale:
old. Right? And it’s, right, you go the same old route to the same old job, doing the same old things. You know? You kiss the same old wife, you know, the same old you know, get careful. No. No. Oh, no. That’s where it gets it gets fun so get through the whole thing, but it’s this whole routine. Bump.

Rob Dale:
Bump. Woo.

Wendy Dodds:
Woo. Kate, can I borrow your ping pong, please?

Rob Dale:
Moving on. Moving on. There is this notion of, again, until you Pause and reflect. Yep. You’re gonna continue to do that same behavior, the same old disease.

Wendy Dodds:
I know, I know, yeah, I have a really hard time making decisions, and navigating through overwhelm

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
When I’m not reflecting. And you pick up on my pattern Yeah. Right away. Now you also won’t say, Wendy. I think we should reflect because because then I’ll be like, stop trying to fix me. It’s like I’m fine.

Eric Deschamps:
It’s like, sick. What’s it saying? What’s it saying? You know, when when people tell you when you’re upset

Rob Dale:
Alright.

Eric Deschamps:
To calm down. Oh. And the saying is No. When in the history of humanity as whole telling someone to calm the fuck down, ever

Rob Dale:
help them calm down. All it does is, like Yeah. You

Kate Beere:
use the ball. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Fuck you. Yeah. But the inability to be able to adapt to if you think about transitions or anything that goes on in your life Yeah. Relationships, careers moving, you know, any kind of the big event any event really. Yeah. But not being able to reflect on that or not being able to have that power of reflection in your day to day, which then will help me and probably a lot of people with that overwhelm making decisions. I find that that’s really helped me over the last couple years be able to navigate through some, some life decisions, some life choices. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
That’s so good. Yep. That’s so good.

Wendy Dodds:
I think you have to recognize your own behavioral patterns. Yeah. So, like, just like you mentioned. Right? You have to recognize your own behavioral patterns in order to change the navigational route.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Wendy Dodds:
If you don’t recognize it Yeah. 100 Or you recognize it and you choose you know it’s there, but you choose not to you choose to ignore it. Stuff.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. It’s living in the rut.

Wendy Dodds:
Changes not if nothing changes.

Eric Deschamps:
Exactly. It’s like living in the rut. Right? Yeah. We’ve talked about this on previous shows. You and I have done a lot of off roading with the Jeeps. And If you’re in an area where there are deep ruts from previous vehicles that have come come by, try not falling into them. Right. Like, your your your tires just naturally wanna fall into them.

Eric Deschamps:
If you wanna carve a new path, you have to work at that. Yeah. And so, again, the question becomes, how long do you wanna live in the rut? Right. And if you wanna carve a new path. It’s going to require setting time aside to think deeply about what you’re doing. However that looks and however it shows up, so crucial. Yeah.

Kate Beere:
And get skip curious. Like, I love that word because when you get curious, it’s there’s no judgment there. It’s just like when I’m talking about looking at okay. Why do I get so mad about the ping pong ball. They’re never gonna throw at me, which I wouldn’t get mad about. I just check it back

Wendy Dodds:
in my ping pong meetings. No.

Eric Deschamps:
I I I’m buy I’m ordering some on Amazon during

Kate Beere:
but if you get curious versus, like, if I’m looking at why did I get so upset, like, what’s wrong with you? Instead of like, oh, that’s interesting. I wonder what that’s about. Even that in sled. That switch of curiosity around it can help. Yep. Yeah. So too.

Eric Deschamps:
So good.

Wendy Dodds:
We so as we think about our listeners, everyone that’s joined the Living Rich Lee nation, over the past year. A lot of people are thinking, well, that’s that’s great. You guys are talking about reflection, and that sounds all wonderful, but what are the benefits? So so I so I know it’s good. It sounds wonderful. What are some of the benefits that we’ve kind of encountered as as we’ve made this as part of our life.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. From I’m gonna jump on this one. It’s, like, so much for me. But a big part of it is and I touched on this with journaling, but it’s like vision for me. So self reflection, obviously, has helped me through a lot as his therapy. I haven’t said it on the show, so I’m gonna say therapy.

Eric Deschamps:
Thank you, Sherry.

Kate Beere:
Thank you, Sherry. But I think just being able to get clear, on where I wanna go. So by reflecting, for me, journaling specifically, also so meditating.

Wendy Dodds:
Mhmm.

Kate Beere:
It helps me paint that picture for what I really want. Meditation in particular for me is I get very clear on what I wanna meditate about a lot of the time, and that’s what I focus on for a meditation. Meditate however you want. It’s no prescription. But for me, if I’m really stuck somewhere, I’ll just that’s and I’m not focusing on the negative, but, like, let’s say I’m just feeling I’m not feeling well even physically. My meditation is all around. I am healthy. My body continues to heal.

Kate Beere:
So, like, that and I will do a whole. So it It crystallizes for me the vision part, and I don’t mean, like, life vision. I just mean, like, it can be a small thing that I’m trying to work through. It gives me clarity is maybe a better word.

Rob Dale:
I love that one. Yeah. Because I I was thinking clarity as well. Yeah. But then as you started talking, it it’s For me, it helps me show up more authentically. You know, in the past, I’m somebody who would just again, because I’m a I am a, You know, diehard people pleaser. Yeah. And I would just to keep the peace and to keep everybody happy, I wouldn’t I wouldn’t speak up.

Rob Dale:
I wouldn’t I didn’t have that voice. Yeah. But through reflection, when something is bothering me now in that you know, which is part of what I where I when I reflect, I’m able to now get clear on, well, what is really bothering me? Is that is that a me problem, or is that a someone right? And so I’m able to address a and when it is a someone else’s, you know, issue, now I have the voice because I know what I wanna say to be able to speak up and say, hey. Here’s how I’m feeling, And have those conversations. And I know that you and I, because we, of course, we work together, we we do so much together, have commented number of times that over the last few years that that’s one of the things that I’ve been able to do is have more of a voice even in the business Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
On what I’m feeling something, this or that or whatever, And it’s out of the reflection. If I wasn’t reflecting, taking that time to reflect on it, I wouldn’t speak up in this conversation. Ma’am.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Yeah. Powerful. And I’m really proud of you for for doing that as well, just even in our relationship as we grow. You know, we had a conversation a couple months ago, I guess. And you specifically said, like, historically, this has been really hard for me to bring up or talk about. And, historically, I’ve just, you know, again, been the people pleaser, just slide it under the rug. And it was hard for you to share how you were feeling with some of the behavior that I had.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. It wasn’t bad behavior, but but it was, you know, right by actions,

Rob Dale:
what it was for some there. Don’t hold out there.

Wendy Dodds:
And and I was just you know, once when we look back on it, it they’re like, that’s that’s a hard thing to do, especially with your partner, especially because it’s just so much easier to be like, just gonna not say anything. I’m just it’ll just blow over. Yeah. But then Yeah. Right? It just builds and builds and builds. So

Eric Deschamps:
I think one of the many I mean, there’s so many benefits. I mean, you can, There’s hundreds of benefits to having a reflective lifestyle. Like, it is, you you talk about being your authentic self. That’s certainly I would say it helps me, it helps me stay on course with who I am more of the time. It’s like it’s like the pilot flying the plane, right from one location to another. They are constantly getting knocked off course because of the winds and the weather and everything else, and they’re making these micro corrections constantly to stay on track. And I think without a reflective practice, you end up how many people talk about feeling stuck, feeling lost, not I don’t know who I am. Mhmm.

Rob Dale:
I

Eric Deschamps:
don’t know how I ended up here.

Wendy Dodds:
Yep.

Eric Deschamps:
And that often is because there’s been there’s been no micro corrections. We’ve just been yep. Kinda doing this this this, hamster wheel again kinda living, and then we end up where, we didn’t wanna go. Right? So I think staying on course and and being true to yourself. And the other one tied to what you guys were just saying about your own journey is is I think you find your voice in solitude. That’s where you find it. Yeah. You find your courage

Kate Beere:
You do.

Eric Deschamps:
In solitude.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Eric Deschamps:
I I I am a big encourager. People have often told me one of the things they appreciate about me is that that I’m an encourager. I love to encourage people, and and the word encourage literally means to put your courage into someone else. But if we are dependent on external sources to find courage, it’s gonna be problematic. When we spend time with ourselves, getting clear on who we are, what we want, where we’re going. Yep. We find our voice. We find our courage.

Eric Deschamps:
We find our way

Wendy Dodds:
hard work, though. And I love it. It’s really hard work. And I love that you mentioned, what you just did. Because for me, I’ve learned, and I’m still learning, to be really comfortable in being in silence.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
And not, running away or using work or other coping mechanisms that I’ve used in the past to not deal with the shit that’s going on in my head. Mhmm. It’s it was it’s always been so easy for me. Don’t wanna deal with it. Out of sight, out of mind, not doing that. I’m gonna go work. I’m gonna go to I’m gonna do everything else but deal with what’s going on in my head. So I’ve I’ve gotten really comfortable to be okay with being in silence, and also being okay on those days when I’m trying to be silent, and the the thoughts are still coming in, kinda using what you said, getting curious.

Kate Beere:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
And you’ve done this as well. Oh, that’s an interesting thought. Let it fly away, and then bring instead of this sucks, I can’t do this, I can’t meditate, I can’t sit in silence, I’m no good at this, this isn’t for me, and just kinda letting those thoughts naturally drift. But because I’ve learned to become comfortable in being in silence Right. It’s also helped me navigate through, beginning and ending relationships, career changes, all of the big things over the years. And the more you do it, right, practice as habitual. The the the more you do it, the the better you get at it.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. I, I it reminds me as you’re talking about that, and we referred to it earlier in the conversation about how we try to avoid silence so much. We run from it. Right? We fill our lives.

Wendy Dodds:
As hot fast as we can.

Eric Deschamps:
Man, as soon as we have an opening Uncomfortable. We we stuff some other activity or some other distraction in there because it is uncomfortable. And I remember, years ago, this is going back to back in my religious days, where I had this recurring dream for a season in my life where I was walking through a a meadow and into, this this wooded area. And in the middle of that wooded area was this beautiful cabin that looked really warm and attracting and cozy and, all kinds of warm feelings would come. And so I was drawn to to the cabin in my dream, and and I can tell you, I just starting to retell the story, I can still vividly see the images imprinted in my brain. Remember walking up, and every time in the dream, I’d walk up and make it as far as the porch. And I could sense in the dream that there was a presence with me. Call it God.

Eric Deschamps:
Call it the universe, whatever inviting me inside. But there was a hesitation because the the the the presence made it clear that Inside was all the pain and all the stuff that I’d been carrying. And I said, I don’t wanna go in there. And and, again, the reassurance was we’re not gonna live there. There’s a door on the other side of the cabin too, but we have to go through this in order for you to to live the life that you want. And you know that in that dream, And do the introspection, the reflective work necessary to overcome. But it is so powerful that we do avoid it.

Kate Beere:
Well, the silence is so it it’s I’m an introvert too, and so introverts recharge by being alone. Right? We’re not we’re not seeking other people. I need to retreat. I need my quiet time. But quiet time is in silence. And so doctor Sherry recently, she’s like, we’re talking about reflective practices. She’s like, what do you do? And she’s like, can are you do you ever meditate in silence? And I’m like, no, like, this music. And she’s like that? Okay.

Kate Beere:
Like, what are you talking about? She’s like freak do you

Rob Dale:
think I am?

Kate Beere:
And then she’s like, do you ever just sit in silence? I’m like, It’s like, okay. Your body just said it all. Like, okay. So she’s like, do do 30 seconds a day. Work your way up. See how you do in complete silence. And I realize even as an introvert, although it’s quiet, I can be alone. It’s not quiet.

Kate Beere:
It’s not silence.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Kate Beere:
Right? There’s noise. There’s TV. I’m working. I’m doing lot. Whatever it is, but I’m not actually sitting in silence. It it’s very uncomfortable Yeah. At the beginning. Yep.

Kate Beere:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Well, try to go go to any sporting event where they’re gonna have a moment of silence. Right. It’s 5 seconds. Reactivating. It’s not long because you can’t because or else people will start screaming things out or whatever because people can’t being silent even for 1 minute.

Wendy Dodds:
So Interesting. Yeah. We’ve talked about some of the great things that can can come, about from doing reflective practices, but Let’s kinda talk about the downsides. Maybe 1 or 2 things Yeah. Really quickly around the table that, you know, if people think, well, that’s great, but what are some of the downsides? I know for me, it’s time, in terms of making sure that I’m carving that time out and making sure that it’s I’m being patient with it.

Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right. I for me, I’d say, there is the risk of overthinking. There is the

Rob Dale:
risk Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
Of getting stuck in the Yeah. In an analysis paralysis, right, where you can I think it’s critical that, let’s come back to community for a moment? I think you find your voice, you find your courage in solitude. That’s you find your way forward in solitude, but you need that to be confirmed and challenged by community. Or otherwise, you may form a very skewed perspective, of the world and of life in general.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. I would actually just go as a bit stronger on that. Not may. You will. Right?

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
But that’s a great

Kate Beere:
point. Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. Yeah. And for me, it’s it’s definitely, like, 1 more thing I’m gonna fail at. Like, it’s that like, I’m gonna do it wrong.

Eric Deschamps:
Just do it wrong.

Wendy Dodds:
Because, yeah, we have it set in our head as to how it’s supposed to be well

Kate Beere:
and if I let’s say I make a commitment to myself that I’m gonna I’m gonna we were just talking about this on the way here. I you know, We’re on the way here, and we’re we’re just talking about the show. And I’m like, yeah. I I haven’t been meditating as much. Like, it’s just and we were talking about how the holidays, and you get a routine, and then my negative self talk as like, well, what’d you expect? You’re not gonna be good at it. Right? Then I’m like, how

Eric Deschamps:
But that’s what I mean about when I said beginning of the show. We we meditate and reflect Naturally. The problem is most of it is so negative.

Kate Beere:
Exactly. And then it’s just about getting back at it. So, like, yes, you’re not gonna you’re not gonna show up perfectly system. It’s not something I need to tick off. It it becomes embedded in your in your life. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:
I love that. We don’t need to get a gold star.

Wendy Dodds:
No. No. Yeah. Gold stars. Let’s talk about strategies. So, again, kind of going back to our community, with the Living Richly Nation

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
Giving some tangible strategies that people could incorporate into their day to day lives. Yeah. What do you guys think?

Rob Dale:
Well, we’ve we’ve mentioned it a few times. I’ve mentioned that it’s been something for me, and and I would say one of the strategies is just start walking. Mhmm. Take a walk and and just allow, but take a walk. Don’t bring your headphones. Ideally, don’t even bring your your, your your your phone. You know, just take go out and and walk and allow that to happen. I I’m I’m currently reading, Arnold Schwarzenegger’s book,

Eric Deschamps:
which Great book.

Rob Dale:
I love that little book.

Eric Deschamps:
I got So I got the audio version.

Rob Dale:
Okay.

Eric Deschamps:
And there is something listening to all of the reality’s. I found it, like, therapeutic. I actually love this.

Rob Dale:
So to, to to To anyone that’s listening right now, here’s one of the things that I love about Eric is I knew way back when I was preparing notes and I wrote Arnold’s name in the notes, I knew that Eric was gonna jump in and do Arnold’s voice. I’ll be back. Exactly. But Arnold didn’t Hey.

Wendy Dodds:
Do you wanna go for lunch? Yeah.

Rob Dale:
In his in in the book, it’s be useful, which

Eric Deschamps:
at

Rob Dale:
first, when I saw the title, I was like, I don’t know. Is this the, you know, the opposite of what living richly is about? It’s this The you know, you should be using muscle culture. Right. And and, you know, but it’s not and it’s not. It’s such a great book. We’ll put it we’ll put the link to it in the show notes. But he he has a whole section where he starts to name all kinds of these individuals who got their best creativity through walking. And there’s a great quote, and I I wrote it down.

Rob Dale:
I wanna just he quotes Henry David Thoreau who says, the moment my legs begin to move, my thoughts begin to flow. Stuff and all that. What a great quote. So that’s one of the things the strategies I would say is if you’re not sure about writing, you’re not sure about meditating, same. Here’s what we all know how to do. We all learned how to do this when we were young. Walk.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Absolutely.

Kate Beere:
Go for it.

Eric Deschamps:
I I would say, like, another another strategy is is try different things. We mentioned it already, but experiment with what works best for you. Yeah. Let’s avoid try as best you can to avoid that, well, if it works for them, it’s gonna work for me. That’s not true. We we have to figure out something that works for us. But a strategy that I use with my leaders, in in our coaching business, Often when they’re trying to work on a new skill or to show up differently in a certain way in their leadership, I we we talk about creating they create a placeholder in their sounder. Usually, at the end of the week, a 10 minute, 15 minute placeholder to just reflect on how they’re doing on that new behavior or on that new skill that they’re working on.

Eric Deschamps:
It’s it’s a simple way and very practical way actually to show if if you’re trying to effect change in your life, One of the easiest ways is what’s a major change you wanna make, what are the steps you’re gonna start to make to, to take to make that change, But how are you gonna check-in with yourself? Create a calendar, a placeholder where it reminds you. Phones are so distracting. I love how you say, You know, go walking, leave the phone behind. I think all of us could benefit from leaving our phones behind in a lot more situations, but this is where the technology is

Rob Dale:
gonna work for you.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. It can actually prompt you to say, well, how is that point. Yep.

Wendy Dodds:
Right. Right. I I was gonna tie into just exactly what you said, finding something that you like and not comparing yourself to other people.

Rob Dale:
Oh, I

Wendy Dodds:
like that. You know, reading, for instance. Some people like, I love paper. I love the feel of paper in my hands. Other people like audiobooks. Other people like Kindles. You know, I’m a fitness coach and a trainer and an instructor, but my workout isn’t for everyone. So if somebody doesn’t like it, then don’t do it because Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
You need to find something that you enjoy doing. If you don’t enjoy doing it, you’re not gonna be consistent same. One thing that I started to do, and I’ve had my clients do this as well, is breath work. And I know. So I’m going back.

Rob Dale:
I was

Wendy Dodds:
just about to say woo stump. I don’t know. Breath work. You know? So sitting in silence. But, a really easy way that I have found this works for me is choosing a positive word, inhale that positive word in for 4 counts, and then find the opposite of that word and exhale it. So, breathe in positivity. 321. Exhale negativity.

Wendy Dodds:
321. Inhale abundance. Exhale scarcity.

Rob Dale:
And you

Wendy Dodds:
don’t need to have all of these listed, but as you’re and I just did this the other day, and you just the words just you’d be surprised when you sit in silence and you you pay attention to your breathing and that flow of breath, the positive words that’ll come in and then selling the opposite word. So it’s a really simple simple tool.

Kate Beere:
And I know that you talk about, like there’s a lot of technology apps out there. Like Totally. Silver yeah. Yeah. And it is overwhelming, but find like echoing what you said, find what works for you. Try something. There you can try it. There’s so many apps to help you have a meditative moment where it just it’ll ping you and you take 30 seconds even just to pause.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. So there’s so many tools out there. If you look, find 1, doesn’t work, you’re not failing.

Eric Deschamps:
Right.

Kate Beere:
Just it’s not for you. So find something else and keep searching until you find what does work.

Eric Deschamps:
Totally.

Wendy Dodds:
Totally. Think that’s a great way to measure your progress. Like, If we talk about measuring so I’m doing this every day. How do I know if it’s working? Like, so what are the signs that I look for? And I think Yeah. Using an app or, you know, some way to track it where you can kind of start to see patterns in your behavior and how you’re feeling is

Kate Beere:
I know for me, going back and looking at old journals was really

Rob Dale:
That’s powerful.

Kate Beere:
Because you go back and you see what you wrote, you see it. Like, if I go back I have journals from 10 years ago, and I go back and I’m like, woah. So on those days where I feel like I haven’t evolved or I haven’t progressed, When I when I read that, I am just I’m in shock, and I’m like, oh, I’ve come so far. Yeah. It’s a great way to

Eric Deschamps:
kind of 100%.

Wendy Dodds:
This year

Eric Deschamps:
for us. Speaking, and we we talk a lot about meditation. For me, guided meditation has also been very, very helpful, as a tool. And, we I did create, not long ago, a guy 10 minute guided meditation Yep. Using actually the 4 elements that we talk about, at Living Richly. So that will make that available in

Rob Dale:
the show notes.

Eric Deschamps:
But the biggest one for me continues to be has to be journaling, where I’m and and journaling’s gonna look different for different people, But it’s where you’re able to get what’s going on in here. Sometimes it’s just gonna be a dump of your frustrations or your feelings. Other times, you’re just trying to process stuff. Sometimes, you’re just writing about what you’re grateful about. But it’s, again, it’s a check-in with my your inner life. As opposed to ignoring Those deep currents within. You’re just getting present to them, not with the idea of resolving everything. I think that’s the problem.

Eric Deschamps:
We’re trying to resolve everything.

Rob Dale:
No. We’re just

Eric Deschamps:
trying to get present to it. Mindfulness in its essence is getting present to what’s happening right now, and I think the best place to practice it, is with yourself, being mindful of what’s going on under the hood. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
I love that. As we start to wrap things up, let’s, one of the favorite parts of, the show, I think, for us is our is our lightning fast round at the end. So if we think about what final piece of advice, any of us could give to our listeners about embracing a reflective lifestyle. Let’s, shoot around the table and and go. Rob, your first

Rob Dale:
go. Well, I think just again, to echo what’s no. To echo what we’ve already said is, stop trying to get it right and just do it.

Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. I would say, slow the fuck down. Remember notes and arrests. Learn to remember to insert more pauses into the chaos. If you wanna live a masterpiece of a life, you gotta get present to what’s going on inside.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. And I would just say start start, as Rob said, and start small. Give yourself something that doesn’t feel overwhelming. And And if you don’t do it, you don’t do it, and don’t be hard on yourself. Just keep with it and start small.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
I think those are amazing. And and I would add in how you love and treat yourself is also how you teach others to treat you as well. When we learn to believe in our self worth, that’s really where we start to see things shift because we are what we believe ourselves

Eric Deschamps:
to be. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Oh, soozebumps. Again. That’s a great conversation. We wanna invite you to, think about how these topics and what we talked about resonates with you most. And sharing is caring. So we would love for you to like, share, subscribe, help us get the word out, especially if there’s been nuggets of this that have really impacted your life. Visit our website at living richly dot me to help find help you find out how you can join our private Facebook group. This is absolutely blowing up.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. It

Wendy Dodds:
is. It’s, you’re gonna get exclusive member content, but more importantly, you’re gonna be surrounded by a like minded community of people helping you on your journey. We also have the 15 day life safe vision challenge. Again, this is only for members. So, visit our website so you can see how you can pop into this group. And, like I said, you’ll also be able to link arms with, some incredible people around the globe here. Until next time. Enjoy living your best life.

.