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Tune into this week’s episode of The Living Richly Podcast, “Living Richly, Loving Deeply.” Join our lively couples, Eric & Kate and Rob & Wendy, as they share their secrets for building thriving relationships. They share what they’re learning about feeling safe, valued, and fired up to pursue your dreams as a couple—without losing your personal spark and passion.

This episode is a game-changer if you want to strengthen your love relationship AND stand strong as an individual. Get ready for some deep dives, hearty laughs, and powerful insights you won’t want to miss!

To learn more about Wendy, visit

To learn more about Kate, visit

Show Notes for Episode 38

Kate mentioned a video from Brene Brown during the show. You can view it on YouTube here.

About Kate and Wendy

Kate is a single mom of three teenagers, a senior marketing professional with over 20 years of experience in developing brands and bringing them to life, a seasoned entrepreneur, and the creator of the Get2 Mindset – which our listeners have heard much about here on the podcast.

Wendy is a mom of two teen girls and a former corporate HR professional who spent over 17 years supporting Employee Relations. Now deeply immersed in coaching/training in the wellness space since 2014, she is passionate about changing people’s lives and helping them pivot and unleash their full potential, both in a gym setting and with her brand, The Real Life.

Links to Wendy:

The Real Life | Facebook | Instagram

Links to Kate:

Get2Mindset | Instagram


Key Concepts from Episode 38: Living Richly, Loving Deeply

In this episode of The Living Richly Podcast, we delve deep into the topic of living richly in relationships. Filled with personal anecdotes and insightful perspectives, the episode highlights the power of vulnerability, the importance of uncomfortable conversations, and the need to prioritize personal growth within relationships. Let’s dive into the key takeaways from this episode.

Embracing Vulnerability

The episode begins with a discussion about vulnerability as a superpower. Many individuals struggle to be authentic and vulnerable due to fear of judgment and criticism. However, the hosts stress the importance of creating a safe space with a trustworthy person, allowing for open and honest conversations.

Building Strong Foundations

One theme that resonates throughout the episode is the significance of establishing a strong foundation in relationships. Our hosts reveal their good fortune in having a safe space and a trusting relationship where they can share intimate and vulnerable aspects of their lives. They acknowledge that truly experiencing a safe space is often elusive for many.

Embracing Personal Growth

The hosts acknowledge that both men and women can often feel apologetic about wanting more and seeking personal growth. They emphasize the value of having uncomfortable conversations with partners to discuss individual journeys of growth and the impact it may have on the relationship. Personal anecdotes are shared, highlighting the challenges and rewards of having such discussions.

Navigating Changing Friendships

The episode also touches upon the significance of friendships and emotional support outside of romantic relationships. The hosts emphasize that women often have ever-evolving needs in their friendships and the importance of finding like-minded individuals on similar journeys. They stress the need to nurture friendships, even if they are newer and not long-lasting.

Balancing Personal Time and Relationships

The hosts acknowledge the challenge of balancing a new romantic relationship with maintaining friendships. They appreciate partners who support their need for personal time and friendships without guilt. It’s crucial to recognize and communicate personal needs while also showing up for each other in the way that they need.

Aligning Values in Relationships

One thought-provoking topic discussed in the episode is the importance of choosing a partner based on shared values. While finding comfort in having a partner who shares the same interests and pursuits is valuable, it may lead to uncomfortable conversations if one partner is not aligned with the other’s personal growth journey.

Authenticity and Healing

Central to the episode is the notion of showing up as one’s authentic self in relationships. The hosts emphasize that loneliness can persist even when surrounded by people if one is not authentic and vulnerable. Building relationships based on falsehoods can lead to difficulties while learning from moments of disagreement or messiness can foster healing and growth.

Living richly in relationships requires vulnerability, uncomfortable conversations, and a strong commitment to personal growth. By building a solid foundation, nurturing friendships, and navigating personal time with understanding partners, we create the intimacy and connection needed for a fulfilling life. Choosing a partner whose values align and prioritizing authenticity and honesty allows for true healing and growth. Remember, a rich life is not built overnight but through consistent effort and meaningful actions that convey love and care.
Join us next time on The Living Richly Podcast as we continue our exploration of living richly in other aspects of life. Stay tuned for more valuable insights and heartfelt conversations!

Episode 38 Transcript

Living Richly, Loving Deeply

Rob Dale [00:00:01]:

One of the most significant relationships for many of us is the person at our side, our life partner. We’re going to look at some lessons that we are learning on the journey of living richly as a couple on today’s show.

Eric Deschamps [00:00:21]:

Hi, and welcome to the Living Richly podcast. My name is Eric Deshawn. I’m here with my great friend Rob Dale and also two wonderful ladies, most important ladies in our lives, kate Beer and Wendy Dodds. Great to have you ladies back this week.

Wendy Dodds [00:00:37]:

Thanks for having us.

Kate Beere [00:00:38]:

Thank you again.

Rob Dale [00:00:39]:

We obviously did okay.

Eric Deschamps [00:00:40]:

They came back, right? They came back. This is a good thing. But we’re excited today. Now.

Rob Dale [00:00:46]:

I don’t know. I had to pay. Yeah. I had to bribe Wendy into coming back. She was like, I’d go on. Is Eric on every week?

Eric Deschamps [00:00:56]:


Rob Dale [00:00:59]:

Okay. Maybe it didn’t go that way at all.

Eric Deschamps [00:01:01]:

I felt like I was making such good progress on my self image. And then you went ahead and said.

Kate Beere [00:01:05]:


Eric Deschamps [00:01:10]:

Yeah, we’ll fix that and post that.

Rob Dale [00:01:12]:

We are talking today. And one of the certainly we’ve made reference to this in the past around what is it to live richly as a couple. We’ve kind of talked a little bit. We’ve had some listeners who have asked some questions around the context of this. And I thought, what a great conversation to have with Wendy and with Kate is just for us to talk about what is it like to live out this model, this experience of your authentic life in a relationship with someone else and all of what that means and what that involves. So that’s what we’re going to be talking about today.

Eric Deschamps [00:01:50]:

Yeah, I’m really excited about it because when you think about it, consider some of your probably happiest moments and some of your darkest moments, and usually those moments can be tied in some way to the person or a person or an individual or a relationship. We experience both tremendous wounding in relationships, and I’m convinced that it’s also in relationships that we experience some of our most significant healing. And we’re going to get to talk about some of that today with some two really beautiful, smart women and who probably know way more about this stuff than we do, but just to share some lessons, right, that we’ve been learning along the way about this whole process. So I guess the first question is what does living richly as a couple mean to you? So, ladies, over to you. What do you think? What are your thoughts?

Wendy Dodds [00:02:39]:

Oh, gosh.

Eric Deschamps [00:02:42]:

Big question.

Wendy Dodds [00:02:45]:

Okay, so I’m just going to throw this out there because I think it’s probably one of the biggest things for me is getting comfortable with having uncomfortable conversations. I’m just going to throw it out because I have experienced this. I hear about it all the time. It’s so much easier to not have a conversation or not talk about something. It’s so much easier to do that than sit down and just get super uncomfortable and have those yucky conversations. So when I think about living richly as a couple, aside from all the wonderful, fluffy, beautiful, romantic things that we think of when we think about having our soulmate, our life partner, it’s also about all of the other stuff that a lot of people just don’t want to address. And I think for me, a big thing is uncomfortable conversations.

Kate Beere [00:03:43]:

Yeah. And I’m going to add to that because I 100% agree with you, Wendy. Shocking as we flow through this with that is vulnerability. Eric, you and I just talked about this too, and it’s interesting to learn in your partner what is vulnerable to them versus what is vulnerable to you. And what is vulnerable to me isn’t necessarily vulnerable to Eric. And so he’s like, oh, that’s not a big deal to I’m like I’m cringing in the uncomfortableness of like we joke about this, but the first time I let him go in my basement, which is just like it is bad. There is just stuff everywhere and the rest of my house is so clean. For me, that was odly enough, a very vulnerable moment, not because it’s messy, but because I’m not showing up perfectly, I’m not showing up at my best. You’re starting to see under the layers, right. So sometimes it’s just about vulnerability too, and being fully open and transparent and being willing to show all of those pieces. The parts you think are ugly, right? Maybe ugly is a strong word, but those parts you maybe are scared to be vulnerable with.

Eric Deschamps [00:04:52]:

Right? Well, we just had a few weeks ago now, susan Blaine from the Dare to be Vulnerable project on as a guest and she talked about vulnerability as a superpower and how it’s so difficult for so many of us to just be real. We fear being judged, we fear being criticized, we fear not being enough or falling, not making the grade. Right? Not passing the test. And I think to your point, Wendy, when we’re able to engage in those uncomfortable conversations, those difficult conversations with someone that fundamentally you trust has your back and who will not judge you or make you feel small or like less of a human when you admit to those vulnerabilities or you demonstrate those vulnerabilities. I know for me, the safe space and the relationship that Kate, you and I have been building together over the last year, I’ve never had anything like it where I felt I could actually talk about this stuff. Stuff that as much as I’m a pretty open guy and I’ve shared an awful lot of my story on this podcast and now it lives forever in the world of the interweb but even more intimate, vulnerable things that I’ve shared, that I’m still working through because I think the living richly journey never really ends. I think we’re forever healing and creating a safe space. It’s a term we often hear, but I don’t think it’s a reality that many people actually experience, even in couple type relationships.

Rob Dale [00:06:36]:

And I love that. That’s where we are starting here on living richly. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps [00:06:40]:

Let’s just go right into the deep end, shall we?

Rob Dale [00:06:43]:

Dive right in. Thanks. Wendy.

Eric Deschamps [00:06:45]:

We thought, like, I won’t serve or anything. We like taking walks in nature, we.

Kate Beere [00:06:50]:

Like the dangerous conversations, the all in.

Rob Dale [00:06:56]:

But but I appreciate it so much. And again, we have tried to be our goal with the podcast, with this whole movement, is to be as real and as raw as we can be and recognize that not every subject and every topic is going to be shared completely openly. But I remember, and it was a significant moment for me and it was early in our relationship together, Wendy, where there was a season where I was incredibly busy. There was a bunch of stuff going on. I had a bunch of stress about a number of things, and most of it was work related with trying to do some things. And there had gone sorry, man. Yeah. And there had gone a season, a short season, but there was a bit of time there where I was falling into some old traps, some old patterns, I should say, of being still kind of consumed on some stuff and focusing it. And I remember, Wendy, you speaking up one day and just saying and you were being so vulnerable and transparent and just saying, I’m feeling hurt and ignored right now. And in my past I would have gone into all kinds of excuses and I would have tried to justify and I would have turned a back on someone. But in this context, I was able to respond just with you’re right. Please forgive me. Which of course she did. And we were able to all of a sudden. It will always be a moment I remember in our relationship because I felt like it was one of the first times that my partner was able to vulnerably share what they were feeling and I was able to respond in that same openness and vulnerability.

Eric Deschamps [00:08:42]:

And likely you didn’t feel attacked, you didn’t feel criticized. Exactly right. And so I think when you’re able to engage in just authentic real conversations about what’s so for you, when you’re with that person who understands you, you don’t feel like it’s a threat. You don’t feel like it’s something to be afraid of, but rather something to be responded to. But ladies, let’s face it, being able to have those kinds of conversations, it’s not the norm.

Kate Beere [00:09:14]:

No, I don’t think it is the norm. I think most couples don’t. And that’s an assumption of my part. I know from talking to the women that I know that those types of relationships take work. It’s cultivation. You have to build that safety net. We talk about a safe space and to be clear, it’s an emotionally safe space that I’m referring to. It’s not a physical safe space. That’s a whole other conversation. But that emotionally safe space needs to be built to be able to even slightly get truly, truly close to someone and start to share those deep secrets, those deep mullets, those deep feelings. And you can’t do that without a safety net. So building that safety net starts with trust communication. And I mean, Rob, I like the way you say that I didn’t respond the same way I might have before. It’s likely also when he’s communicating a way that doesn’t you don’t feel like you’re being attacked. There’s a conversation, it’s communication. It’s actually know you’re talking to each other, not at each other. And I think there’s so much power in that.

Eric Deschamps [00:10:28]:


Wendy Dodds [00:10:28]:

Yeah, I’ll jump in because I absolutely remember that conversation, Rob, and I’ll say that that was probably one of the hardest conversations I’ve had to have. And it wasn’t that you were doing anything wrong, by any means, but it was interesting how we navigated through that conversation, where I historically have not ever had conversations like that before. And when people ask like, well, how do you have that conversation? Well, there’s no way to have it other than just having it. And you have to be okay with taking off all of the masks and showing up authentically as you, and it might not come out the right way or it’s going to be messy. And I think the more we embrace.

Kate Beere [00:11:19]:


Wendy Dodds [00:11:21]:

The easier it becomes over time.

Eric Deschamps [00:11:24]:

Yeah, it’s like building muscle, isn’t it? It’s like, at first it can feel awkward, it can feel painful. You might be sore afterwards because to your point, Wendy, it didn’t quite come out the way you’d hoped, and yet you’re attempting to communicate what’s so for you. But the more that you practice that type of communication and openness and safety with one another, the stronger you become at it, the better you become at it. I remember, Kate, not long ago, you shared something with me, and I went into classic guy try to fix it, right? And only to realize later that’s the last thing you needed. But your ability to communicate that to me and for me to say, what do you need from me? How can I help? And to understand that what you needed from me, there was just understanding in that moment. You needed just compassion in that moment and not fix the problem. Right. But again, I know it’s new for me. It’s something that I truly appreciate about our relationship. What are some ways we talk about that, creating that safe space and how important it is? And obviously that’s a connection thing. But from your perspective, either one of you, both of you, what are some things that contribute to building that type of connection or creating that kind of safe space? And what are some of the things that are like major withdrawals from that kind of space being established or nurtured.

Kate Beere [00:12:50]:

Yeah, I’ll jump in just because you just gave that recent example that we kind of went through, and it was a hard conversation and the next day to be able to I know myself in the heat of a moment if I’m upset poor Eric, but I need space, right? So we’re communicating around, like and one of the things I love is you always ask, well, what do you need from me? I’ve never had that. No one’s ever asked me, what do I need in a relationship? So you’re like, what do you need from me in those times? And I’m like, Fuck, I don’t know he’s ever asked me. So all of a sudden, I’m like, oh, my God, I know he’s going to ask me this question.

Wendy Dodds [00:13:29]:

I need to think about what I need.

Kate Beere [00:13:31]:

Right? And so us just communicating, like, having those conversations for me to be like, I don’t know what I need. And you’re like, that’s okay, when you figure it out, let’s talk. And then you agree to show up in that way, it takes that friction out for next time.

Wendy Dodds [00:13:48]:

It’s not going to be perfect.

Kate Beere [00:13:50]:

Nobody’s perfect in a couple. But it helps to know, like, if I know what you need in a moment, you know what I need. You can be like, oh, that’s what this is about. This has nothing to do with maybe I’m taking something personally. It’s something to do with you. And I’m like, is this what’s happening? Do you need that? Yeah. Okay, great. And it just kind of takes some of the haze out of it. So the more you talk about it and the more you have those open conversations, is when you learn how to better support your so good.

Eric Deschamps [00:14:18]:

So good.

Wendy Dodds [00:14:19]:

What about for I think I know shocking, just very similar to what Kate was saying, and I’ll try to word it in a different way so I sound a little creative. I really think it’s about part of it is recognizing that we have different needs. I mean, let’s just call it as it is. Guys are guys and girls are girls, right? And we have different emotional needs. We have different physical needs. And I think when couples start to realize that they don’t have to be the same in terms of what their needs are, and the partner not feeling the need to justify or apologize about wanting more or needing more or feeling however they’re feeling and not always feeling. Like I said, the need to justify or apologize, but really having that person kate, you know, you said it. And so Rob does the same thing, the exact same thing. I feel like you guys probably talked maybe and discussed this when Kate and I are the verbiage was the but, but all joking aside, I appreciate that. What do you need from me, and how can I show up for you. And a lot of times I don’t have the answers to that because my mind sometimes is like 5000 web browsers open all at once and I don’t know what I but instead of you taking it personally, you show up for me in the way that I need you to. And that could be just doing those simple things, just letting me have my space. And I think recognizing that as couples that that is okay, that we don’t need to have all of the answers figured out, but agreeing as a couple.

Rob Dale [00:16:06]:

To come back and talk now, it’s so good. Along with that, I think one of the ways that you create safe spaces and this is going to have to explain this one of the ways that you create safe spaces is through laughter and by laughter. Yeah. And I know you and you’re welcome, by the way.

Eric Deschamps [00:16:29]:

You’re welcome Rob.

Rob Dale [00:16:30]:

There’s not a lot of laughter. Yeah, you do. You do bring a lot of laughter into my life. But it is something I speak with Wendy because I absolutely believe that Wendy is in my corner and she is cheering me on and she believes the best for me. I’m able to laugh at myself. We’re able to laugh. Some of our favorite jokes and kind of laughing is that subtle teasing of each other. But in the past, maybe I would tease somebody, but it’d be a biting, almost a bit of a truth to it. Right, right. Just speaking for myself and how I’ve shown up in other relationships, in the case with Wendy, because we are such passionately committed and believing in the good in the other person, we’re able to have those moments of laughter. We’re able to joke around. We’re able to kind of just enjoy that. And out of that laughter often comes some incredibly safe conversations.

Eric Deschamps [00:17:33]:

100%. I think humor, I think light heartedness. I think a lot of people in general have just forgotten how to have fun. And if they have fun, listen, I’m all for sometimes we just need to blow off some steam. We just need to distract ourselves. If we’ve had a really hard week, we’ve said it before on the show, you don’t have to be healing and growing 100% of the time. That’s just not realistic. So sometimes just going out, having a good time, distracting yourself is exactly the right thing to do. But I think sometimes we do far too much of that and we haven’t learned how to just be light hearted, how to have fun, how to laugh. It’s one of the things I love about Kate and I is from day one, I still remember that our very first date, it was at Kelly’s Landing, just outside Manatec. And we got there, met about 630. She almost didn’t come. I’m really glad she did.

Rob Dale [00:18:30]:

I don’t blame you.

Eric Deschamps [00:18:31]:

Right. I don’t blame her either. But then we literally shut the place down and so much conversation, so much laughter. We went out the night again and it was the same and it’s been like that ever since. Where to this day, whether we’re engaging in real meaningful conversations about life and parenting or kids or career or what it means to be a couple, or what we’re kind of working through is that hours can pass and we can go from serious to fun and fun to serious. And it’s so life giving. And to me, to your point, it does create a safety. You feel a level of comfort. Now, I’ve just said a whole lot there, Kate. Feel free to agree with me or disagree. Everything he just said is bullshit.

Rob Dale [00:19:19]:

Yeah, it wasn’t Kelly’s landing.

Eric Deschamps [00:19:22]:

It wasn’t Kelly’s Landing.

Rob Dale [00:19:23]:

It was a minute visit.

Eric Deschamps [00:19:25]:

It was McDonald’s on fries at half price night.

Kate Beere [00:19:31]:

No, I agree wholeheartedly. You and I laugh a lot. I think joy is so needed and laughter is so needed and laughter sometimes just breaks the tension too, when you’re having there’s moments where it’s not appropriate, but there are also times where it just eases the tension. And I would say there’s no lack of laughter in our relationship.

Eric Deschamps [00:19:55]:

Good. So good. When we talk about, again, the things that create safe space, create a strong sense of again, our listeners have heard so much from Rob and I, and like I said, most of the time when we’ve answered relationship questions, it’s been from a different perspective and from our perspective as two white guys. Right, but from your perspective, what are some of those other elements or ingredients or dynamics that are really meaningful to you in creating a safe space and building and nurturing a rich connection?

Wendy Dodds [00:20:35]:

Yeah, I’ll jump in to start. I think one of the big things for us is knowing when to protect your partner, but also knowing when to encourage them. And I love this about Rob and I’m still on my mindset journey and being able to be very vulnerable with him about that has been a huge help for me. And I know that my mind listens to everything I tell it, but subconsciously I forget that. And so Rob just finds this wonderful balance at helping me be able know, protect me when I need protection, but also encouraging me to let go of those scripts. And that’s been very difficult for me to do on my own. And I’m a highly independent woman, so for me to let down some of those barriers and some of those walls to allow him to help me with that, I think has really helped develop our connection. It’s almost like I guess the best analogy I can use is learning to build. Like, when we started seeing each other, we had the conversation around how can we build our foundation on bricks rather than on sand? What are the things that are going to help us continue to grow? And what are the things that I need help with and I need support with, I need you to protect me, but I also need you to encourage me and vice versa.

Kate Beere [00:22:10]:

I love that because I think that foundation is everything, right? At the end of the day, I think if I think about just keeping a connection know, because Eric and I don’t live together, so we do live apart, hence not to get much more sense, crystal clear, but because we don’t live together, keeping the connection is harder, right? We don’t see each other every day. And so we are now in a path or timing of Eric has his son when I have my kids. So at least our week off without kids, if you call it a week off, is we have that time together, we do try to maximize that time together, but there’s a week where we’re not together. And so for us, it’s keeping that connection. What does that look like for us? And I know we have a few things we do. I mean, Erickson’s, the first time I met him, has always texted me in the morning, there’s not a day I don’t roll over and he’s up at five and I’m not. So I always roll over to a text from him and it’s always a good morning, beautiful, followed by something. And he’s never faltered on that. And you talk about building connection, you start your day with connection, there’s something really powerful around that for me. And we do dinner one night a week when I have my kids. And for me that was a big deal because for eight years I had or seven years at that time when I had them, I had never left them because I only have them 50% of the time. So that was a lot for me. And Eric recognized that. That was a lot for me to give up sort of 2 hours of my night to not be with my kids. But that connection for us was so important. I think we always make time, we’ll call each other on those weeks. You’ve recently met my kids that are spending more time here. So we’re navigating that, which is a whole other dynamic that’s starting, but Eric’s spending more time here. But I think making the connection a priority or prioritizing the relationship and ensuring we’re chatting and we feel connected is as important as how you connect.

Wendy Dodds [00:24:23]:

Yeah, I think it’s the little things. And I love Kate that you mentioned the text thing because for a lot of people that’s such a we don’t think about, so and for Rob and I who do live together, it’s interesting how our dynamics are the same, but also different in some ways. You guys, when you’re apart for a week, you focus on that connection when you’re apart. For us living together, it can be very easy to fall into that mundane habit of get up, go to work, like, do the things right. And so for Rob, coming and bringing me a cup of tea in the morning, and it’s interesting as we kind of move the conversation into, like, what are the rituals? That’s one of our rituals, and I’ve never had that before. And it’s such a sacred ritual that we just value and cherish. And I think it’s those little things, like when Eric is texting you Good morning, or when Rob’s bringing MIT. A lot of people think it’s the big things, but it’s so not. It’s always the little things that just mean so much more on protecting and developing that connection.

Rob Dale [00:25:27]:

I appreciate the fact that Eric also texts me every morning and said, no, I don’t.

Wendy Dodds [00:25:34]:

I hope it’s not morning beautiful.

Eric Deschamps [00:25:37]:

No, no, it’s.

Rob Dale [00:25:43]:

And it is interesting.

Eric Deschamps [00:25:45]:

Because but I do love you, brother.

Rob Dale [00:25:46]:

I know. And I love you, too, brother. All right. And we also wendy, you mentioned that ritual in the morning. Again, all of this takes work. And so perfect example of that is this morning we’re up early. I’m leaving my house early to come here to do our recording. Wendy was up early because she’s got a class that she’s leading early in the morning. We will figure out what time we need to leave the house. So therefore, then what time do we need to get out of bed? But then we will then set our alarms earlier so that we can have that cup of coffee, and for Wendy, the cup of tea in bed together before we need to get moving. So we know we’re going to put in an extra 1520 minutes earlier than we need to be. And there are some mornings this morning was a great example. That alarm went off, and both of us were like, Fuck. But it wasn’t hit the snooze button and just sleep. It was no. One of us gets up, grabs coffee and tea, comes back to bed, and we just sit and have that time. And then, of course, the dog jumps on the bed at that point. But that moment together is a ritual that starts our day with connection.

Eric Deschamps [00:26:58]:

Well, I love, again, how both of you and you’re just reaffirming it, Rob. But both of you mentioned we often think it’s the big things, right? And yet, on the previous episode we shot with you guys last week, we talked about those micro moments of courage, those microevolutions, and I think whether it’s building your own best life in terms of being your best self, your most authentic self again, a lot of folks think it’s a swing for the fences type approach that actually often backfires. All the research shows that often when you set the bar too high, too fast, it’s actually demotivating. And this is why most people throw in the towel when they’re barely even taking a few steps, because they’re already not feeling great about themselves. And now they set these massive goals. Now they’re failing at that, too. And it’s just like, oh, add that to the checklist, and it just SAPS all confidence and joy out of the process. Well, I think it’s the same with any two people trying to build a meaningful relationship. There will be big moments, right? Like, there will be those big moments, and those are celebrated. But I think a real solid relationship that goes the distance is built. Those little microevolutions at a time. Those little micro moments, those little things that are done with care, they’re done because they’re important. They carry a message, right? For me, I never want Kate to doubt that she’s the first person on my mind every morning when I first wake up and how important she is to me, no matter how busy my day is about to be as I head into it, that she matters more to me than anything else I do. The cup of coffee. We’re not big tea drinkers, but when I can, I also bring her the cup of coffee.

Rob Dale [00:28:42]:

Well, and if I can kind of now bookend it. We end our day with another ritual, and the end of our day is the same ritual where once we get into bed and lights are out and all this where is this going? Rob, we have a light above our.

Eric Deschamps [00:29:00]:

This is not that kind of show.

Rob Dale [00:29:01]:

There’s a light on the headboard that just lights things up a little bit.

Eric Deschamps [00:29:08]:

Okay, this is getting really interesting. Our viewership, our listeners. I can see the count going up on the website right now.

Rob Dale [00:29:17]:

We turn on the camera. This light is on. And we lay and just chat. No, that’s not I was going to say it’s. It’s Steve. Help us out on this one.

Eric Deschamps [00:29:42]:

Steve left the room about five minutes ago.

Rob Dale [00:29:45]:

It is one of the most intimate acts where we have this time of we look into each other’s eyes and we talk and we share about our day or we share about nothing. It can be the most meaningless thing. It can be sometimes it’s 30 seconds because we’re exhausted. Sometimes it’s 1520 minutes. But it’s talking about our day, talking about just moments, experiencing that together. It is absolutely a highlight. And sometimes one of us is away because of work. We’re traveling, or whatever it is. The thing that I miss the most with Wendy is, let’s say, wave with work. And when I go to bed at night, that’s the moment that I miss the most is just that ending the day together in that moment.

Eric Deschamps [00:30:36]:

That’s usually when you’re texting me. One of the rituals that I really appreciate about you, Kate, is the importance of your friend group and of your close friends to your life and how you protect that and how you really nurture that. It’s something that I admire and that I support 100%. As a matter of fact, you’re the first relationship I’ve ever been in where you have such a. Strong friend group that I feel it makes our relationship that much stronger. Right. Can you talk to the importance of that for you? Because I think it’s often undervalued. I’m not sure if you’re comfortable but.

Kate Beere [00:31:20]:

The importance of more than comfortable. Absolutely. My friend group is they’re an extension of my family. Without these women in my life, I would not be here. I wouldn’t be the person I am today. I think it allows me sometimes to talk to them about what’s happening with us. Or was that a me thing? Is that a guy thing? Like help me. And they can, yes, be mindful of who you’re listening to. However, they give me a point of view and there’s times they’re the ones that really gut check me. They’ll call me out in 2 seconds. They’ll be like, you’re so out of line. And I’ll be like, oh, just brings me down. But they’re my confidants. They’re the women I call when I’m in cris. They’re the women who have been by my side for 20 years. They are so incredibly important to me and they are so critical to every element of my life. They have co parented my kids indirectly. They’ve been involved in all my just they really are for me so important and I do cherish it. And to your point, Eric, I do nurture that too. I mean, those relationships mean the world to me and to know that I’m giving as much as I’m receiving is equally important. But it is definitely a sounding board for me outside of us, which I think it can be really healthy.

Eric Deschamps [00:32:53]:

I just think so many relationships I think what can happen or develop over time is between two people. So much expectation starts to grow on one other person to meet all of those social relationship community type needs. And I don’t think any two people can actually carry that kind of weight for each other. It’s too much. And so I think part of the conversation is what’s the extended circle, those concentric circles in one’s life? I believe one of you said it last week, it takes a village. Right? I think it was you, Wendy, who said that and I think it’s true. I think nurturing important relationships outside like friendships outside of our immediate romantic love relationship is absolutely crucial. Right?

Rob Dale [00:33:45]:

Yeah. Absolutely. Wendy, you want to jump in on.

Wendy Dodds [00:33:55]:

Think so. I think Kate brings up wonderful points in regards to and it’s probably a little different for guys, but as women we can be very needy around what we need in terms of just that emotional support with friends. Now it’s interesting because my friend circle has completely shifted. I don’t want to say completely shifted. It has shifted tremendously, particularly over the last few years and especially after my separation. It’s been very interesting as my path continues to grow and change, finding new growth and new friendships with people who are on the same journey as me because there was not a lot of people in my life before. And I think this is a testament to it’s okay to grow and it’s okay to change, and we’re not always going to be on the same path all of the time. And so nurturing those friendships for me now, just as important as what Kate mentioned for all of those reasons, it’s just a little bit different because for a lot of these people, I haven’t known them for 20 years, right. So I think at different times, women need different things at different times, but I think that is critical to us. And Eric, you mentioned it sometimes, especially when you’re in a newer relationship, you’re so excited and you’re so caught up with all of the wonderful things that a lot of the other stuff sometimes falls to the wayside hobbies that we know, our friends, all of those kinds of things, which it’s something that you want to continue to nurture over the years. And that’s one thing I love about Rob is he’s always my biggest cheerleader when I need my me time or when I want to go out for a run by myself or when I want to see my friends for dinner. There’s never any guilt or any feeling of, okay, well, guess I’ll be here when you come back, kind of thing. I mean, I’m sure he is, but just very much supporting that other side of me that I need in my life as well.

Eric Deschamps [00:36:11]:

I think it’s so good. What I am struggling with right now is just trying to picture you with a big set of pompoms as the biggest cheerleader. We have teased you about this, though. You do look like Spartacat, right? No. Okay. He’s not.

Rob Dale [00:36:29]:

Yes. All right. WAGA, WAGA, WAGA. All right.

Eric Deschamps [00:36:35]:

That’s fozzy bear. That’s not spartacus.

Rob Dale [00:36:37]:

Giving you that one at the same time. And thank you, Wendy, for that, and I appreciate you going ahead and adding some more thoughts, even after saying that you would. And I was thinking of, as Kate was describing these longtime friends, I certainly was thinking of your group that you certainly bounced a lot of idea conversations around that you get together with on a quarterly basis, and you have that time together. And it is important. Community matters. And how we show up in the community is so critically important as well.

Eric Deschamps [00:37:13]:

Absolutely, but I mean, one of the ways that is so critical to show up is, again, we’ve been talking about showing up as your authentic self and feeling like you’ve got that safe place to be you, and sometimes that’s be messy. You right. Like that. I don’t know what’s going on. I don’t know what’s with me right now. I don’t know how to sort my thoughts. I don’t know what I need. And yet your partner is there to say, it’s okay, you don’t need to have it all figured out. We’ll figure it out when it’s time to figure it out. And that’s a big deal. But in so many relationships, I think, again, loneliness is a real thing. I think people, even in groups, can be extremely lonely. They can be surrounded by people and feel, like, completely alone in this world. And I think when romantic relationships begin to form and a relationship begins to build, it’s so easy, rather than be our true self, to actually go the exact opposite way. Because we perhaps have felt so alone and have felt like that we’ve been missing that in our lives, that it’s easy for people to then become someone else, become what they think the other person wants them to be. And we just talked about this on a recent show. So then we put up a false self, false front, because we think that’s what the other person wants. They’re probably thinking something very similar, so they’re putting up a false front. And what’s a relationship being built around falsehood. It’s being built on, really a distortion at best. And then we wonder why relationships have such a hard time. I think the sooner two people can just be real with each other, and I get that’s hard. Listen, we’ve all been hurt. We’ve all been in relationships and come out of it and said, oh, my God, never again. Right? Like I said at the top of the show, relationships are where we have suffered probably our deepest wounding. And yet, in a safe, authentic, caring, trusting relationship, I think of just the healing in the last year, little by little, slowly by slowly learning to trust more, learning to risk more, learning to be more and more vulnerable. And that even in the moments where, Kate, you and I have not seen eye to eye or we’ve had a moment where some messiness showed up, that that’s awkward. It’s uncomfortable. I don’t look forward to those moments, as do you. But they have been learning moments for both of us to again be able to debrief what happened afterwards and what was going on for you in that moment, and what did you need from me and what could have I done differently? And they’ve been so life giving to be able to build that muscle a little bit at a time, just through honest and open conversation.

Kate Beere [00:39:59]:

There’s that. And can I add something for your show notes? Just see. Can you see when I did that.

Eric Deschamps [00:40:03]:

That was very good, just because it.

Kate Beere [00:40:06]:

Was such a good one. Eric and I sent it to you. We’re just ending on communication, but it’s a Brene Brown clip. I don’t know if you’ve seen it going around. I thought it was so smart and such a tool that couples can take away, which is she’s kind of debunking the whole thing that relationships are 50 50. And she’s like, they’re never 50 50, right? No one’s showing up 50 50 all the time. And so she gives this great example that she uses with her husband where if he comes, at the end of the day, they get together, and he’s like, okay, I met a 20 out of 100. He’s sitting at a 20. And then she’s like, okay, I can give you the 80. So that together they get to 100. She’ll make up in that moment, she’ll do the same. I’m at a 20. He’s like, okay, I got your 80. We got this. So together they’re 100 with whatever they need to tackle, right? Whether it’s taking care of elderly parents with kids, you’re 20 because of whatever day you had. It is what it is. That’s where I’m at. But if you both come in and she’s at a 20 and he’s at a 20, where’s the 60 coming from? Right?

Eric Deschamps [00:41:10]:


Kate Beere [00:41:11]:

And that’s when they negotiate, and that’s when they figure out as a couple, something’s got to come off today, or we need to ask for help, or they figure out how they’re going to solve for it. And I thought that was just such an easy communication tool to be like, hey, what are you at 20? What are you at?

Wendy Dodds [00:41:27]:

I thought you’re 80. Great.

Kate Beere [00:41:28]:

Off we go.

Wendy Dodds [00:41:28]:

And you don’t even have to talk.

Kate Beere [00:41:29]:

Any more than that at that moment. I just think it’s such a great one, so maybe we can throw that one up and people can leverage it.

Eric Deschamps [00:41:37]:


Rob Dale [00:41:38]:

Yeah, we’ll throw that in the show notes as well.

Eric Deschamps [00:41:40]:

Great reminder.

Rob Dale [00:41:41]:

So maybe we talk about living richly as a couple. And certainly one of the listeners a number of months ago sent out a question, and that was, what if your partner doesn’t want to live richly? What if you’re in a place where you’re beginning this journey of living richly, and you’re in a relationship with someone who is not interested in taking that journey or hasn’t expressed any interest in taking that journey? What do you do in that circumstance? And I think when it came out, of course, eric and I gave our response and our perspective as guys as to what we would say there, and I think we kind of stumbled along. Know, I never would want to suggest to someone what they should do or shouldn’t do. It was really began to apply just to what are some questions to ask, but maybe would love to hear from the two of you on your perspective on a question like that from a female perspective. If you’re in a place where and many of our listeners are are probably listening in, and they are thinking, wow, it sounds like you guys have got some great connections and relationships happening, and I’m envious of that, and I don’t have that, or I don’t have anyone in my life. And how would you respond to someone who just says, what if I’m alone on this journey or I don’t have somebody, so I have somebody in my life but they’re not on this journey with me. What would some of the advice you’d provide for them?

Wendy Dodds [00:43:08]:

I think let’s just kind of call it out as it is. That is a really fucking hard question for a lot of people. That’s a really hard question. I think growth means different things to so many people.

Rob Dale [00:43:27]:

So true.

Wendy Dodds [00:43:28]:

I think we become so as women, we become very apologetic about wanting more, feeling like we need know. Kate said it on the previous episode when she was know, just a snapshot of her life around. Everything. On the outside looks great, but on the inside everything is different. I think for a lot of women that is absolutely true. And I’m just going to say it again, tying it back to uncomfortable conversations. I think it’s really sitting down with your partner and understanding what does growth mean to you, what does it mean to me? I think we’d all be living in a fantasy land if we didn’t think that humans grow and change and evolve and that includes relationships as well. And sometimes those conversations need to be uncomfortable with where it is that you want to go. And I’ll just put it out there that’s the conversation I had after 20 years of marriage, and it was the hardest conversation I’ve ever had in my life. And I think really recognizing the difference between where you are now and where you want to be is, yes, what you tell yourself every day, but also learning to be authentic to you and true to you and thinking about you just want to be comfortable. Or where do you see yourself in 20 years and how do you want to live that out? And going back to a comment I made earlier, it’s a lot easier to not have the conversation. It’s a lot easier to settle. And I’m not suggesting anybody do anything in regards to the decisions that I made, but I think it really does come down to understanding what growth means to your partner. Really becoming crystal clear on that and listening to each other with an open mind, not feeling the need to justify or apologize or anything like that, and then building out a path from there. I don’t think there’s no right or wrong answer and there’s no clean way to go through it.

Eric Deschamps [00:45:50]:


Kate Beere [00:45:51]:

No, I’m just ditto.

Eric Deschamps [00:45:56]:


Kate Beere [00:45:57]:

With Wendy, that’s a very personal choice. I think you have to kind of figure out what matters most to you and are you happy in your life. And if you’re pursuing a direction that your partner is in, that might be okay for you and that might be comfortable for you. If you want someone who’s sort of on the same journey as you, then you’re less comfortable and that’s when you have those uncomfortable conversations. I think it’s a very personal journey and I think it’s different. Like Wendy said, for everyone, I think it shows up differently. I think you can use the analogy of, like, okay, I picked up a sport, or, Now I’m golfing, right. And my wife doesn’t want to golf, or My husband doesn’t want to golf, and you’re off golfing all the time. Now you’re meeting new golf friends, and I’m using golf as an analogy here. But the idea is when you get so immersed in something and you’re not sharing that with your partner, you start to go down very different paths, and then that connection gets lost. I think it can happen. You got to keep the connection going. I just think it depends what matters to you in that moment. What are you looking for in designing your rich life? What does that really mean for you? Does that mean having a partner who’s exactly where you are on the same page? If it does, then you better be ready to have those uncomfortable conversations, like Wendy said, with them. And if they’re not willing to go with you, you have some hard decisions to make, but it’s different for everyone. I feel like that’s a hard one. And I’ll end it with ditto because it really was a dittoing.

Eric Deschamps [00:47:34]:

So good.

Kate Beere [00:47:35]:

You know what, though, Kate?

Wendy Dodds [00:47:36]:

It’s in today’s society, we live in such an instant gratification society where we think everything in our life is like Amazon Prime and everything’s going to show up in 24 to 48 hours. I see it all the time in the fitness industry, the wellness space. We can even relate it to having difficult conversations with your partner. It’s not a 24 to 48 hours. Everything’s going to be fixed. For a lot of times this takes months, years of really hard work and dedication to deciding on what you want.

Kate Beere [00:48:11]:

I agree. And I think one of the episodes you guys talk about endings. We don’t like endings, but sometimes endings are a necessary beginning for something else. And I think when you said it really well with women, we’re last on the totem pole as mothers, as caregivers, to our friend, to everyone else but ourselves. And so we often feel like what we want, it doesn’t matter somehow, or it doesn’t need attention. I’ll get to that when I’ve done everything else. And I think giving as women, we need to find our voice and know that it’s okay to feel empowered and that what you want. And showing your kids that you’re going after what you want is such a powerful thing.

Eric Deschamps [00:49:02]:

Yeah, it’s so good. What I loved, what you both said so clearly, is one don’t make any assumptions, right? Open up a dialogue, open up a conversation, and then figure it out from there. All right, last rapid round before we finish off the show for today. This has been such a fantastic conversation, and I look forward to doing it again. You two ladies were just talking, and Rob and I winked at each other because we knew this was going to be really cool to bring us all four together. So really thrilled with how this went and look forward to having you back. But one lightning round, like a phrase or a sentence, something that’s really important to maintaining a living richly relationship dynamic. And I’ll go ahead and go. First, I would say stay curious, never lose the fascination factor about your partner. That would be my advice.

Rob Dale [00:49:57]:

For me, I think it would be to show up fully as yourself and embrace them as their self.

Wendy Dodds [00:50:05]:

For me, I think it always holding your rituals together sacred, no matter what. And sometimes that means saying no to other people to protect that.

Kate Beere [00:50:21]:

Yeah, I think for me it’s around, don’t get too comfortable meaning taking the other person for granted.

Eric Deschamps [00:50:30]:

So good.

Rob Dale [00:50:33]:

Thank you so much. And yeah, this has been absolutely great. For those of you that have been listening, those of you that have been watching, we’d love to hear your comments. If you’re in a living richly type relationship, what would you say? Is that one thing or phrase? We encourage you to leave a comment, and when you’re leaving a comment, make sure you like and subscribe as well so that you don’t miss future episodes. But we want to hear from you and certainly invite you to provide us your thoughts around this topic.

Eric Deschamps [00:51:04]:

Yeah, and make sure to visit our website, Livingrichly Me Act, where you can find all kinds of resources, free tools, free resources, including references to coaching programs and support that we have available to help you in your living richly journey. So make sure to visit the website and avail yourself of all that stuff.

Rob Dale [00:51:23]:

On behalf of Kate and Wendy and Eric, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to listen in and we hope you join us again next week.