Leading by Example – How to be a Catalyst for Change

Leading by Example – How to be a Catalyst for Change

Rae Pappas:
This love was so intense, and I wanted her to have the kind of life that she could build, that she deserved. Every single opportunity, every single adventure, I wanted her to build the life that she wanted. And I knew I couldn’t ask her of that if I didn’t do the same for me. I was always seeking my dad’s approval, his attention. He left when I was 10, and that really changed the course of how I felt about myself as a human being, as a girl. If you want me to behave in a way that I didn’t, like, if you want me to be a different person and you want me to have handled the situation differently, I don’t wanna work here. You don’t deserve me. I will leave.

Wendy Dodds:
We are super excited and super lucky to have the opportunity to have Rae on our podcast today. We’ve had the pleasure of getting to know this incredible woman who’s got such a wonderful story and journey as a single mom and an advocate for women’s empowerment. So welcome, Rae.

Rae Pappas:
Welcome. We’re

Wendy Dodds:
gonna be talking today about your journey of life, love, and self discovery. It’s gonna be amazing. We’re super excited.

Rae Pappas:
Super excited. I’m excited. We’ve had

Wendy Dodds:
the opportunity to kinda get to know you, you know, over the course of the past little while, and just you have such a powerful story to share. And we just thought, what better way than to have you be able to share it with so many women who listen to this show, just because you become such a source of inspiration for us as well. So why don’t we kick it off by talking a little bit about your journey as a mom, being able to find feminism through that as well, values and beliefs. I know that these are important to you. We’ve heard you talk about them before. How did you find, or how did your values and beliefs evolve during pregnancy with your daughter and early motherhood? Why don’t we start with that?

Kate Beere:
That’s an easy person to take off. No. For sure.

Rae Pappas:
Well, I’d like to say I hated being pregnant. I hated it. I hated it. I hated it. As a 30 year old pregnant woman who lifted weights my whole life, was a swimmer, was very athletic, having something in my body despite how much I loved it was really difficult because I wasn’t in control of my body anymore. Right. So I had to there are no pictures of me pregnant. We will not find them on the Internet or in my dad’s roll of film or anywhere.

Rae Pappas:
Like, they’re they do not exist because I just wasn’t comfortable. As soon as I gave birth to Avery, though, oh my god. All of that discomfort, it vanished, completely vanished. And I immediately fell in love with this new person that I had brought into the world. And what it did for me was it allowed me to live my life for me for the very, very first time. Mhmm. I had grown up in a single mom household full of love. My mom was is an amazing person, but at that time, raised me, with so much love and compassion.

Rae Pappas:
But I was always seeking my dad’s approval, his attention. He left when I was 10, and that really changed the course of how I felt about myself as a human being, as a girl. I didn’t have the value, the self value that I maybe had as a younger child because my dad left, and I thought I was disposable. So that continued throughout my life, and I live my life according to his rules, societal rules. Mhmm. I married a person when I shouldn’t have married a person because I thought I should get married. I thought I should do this job. I thought I should do all of these things Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
To meet what society expects of me. So when I had Avery, all of that all of those layers just started to fall off, and little bits of me started to shine through, and it felt really good. And so I think that my value of, parenting Yeah. Love, authenticity started to really become important to me from day 1 when I met her.

Kate Beere:
Well, the the power of the I shoulds, I know so well. We talk a lot about

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
On this show, I should, I should, I should, and the things you do out of those shoulds can be overwhelming and at times are monumental things, like getting married and having children with someone. Right? And out of obligation or some story or script that we’ve told our told ourselves along the way. Yeah. You’ve touched on a little bit, but how becoming a mom for you, it sounds like it kinda shaped you. Yeah. So how maybe dive into that a little bit. Like, how did that shape your identity? Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
So I wanted my daughter the second I had her.

Kate Beere:
Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
It was crazy. I don’t know I know that not everybody has that birth story where they fall immediately in love with their with their new person, but I did instantaneously, deeply, deeply never prepared myself for this even though I read all the books, like, what to expect when you’re expecting, 1st year, blah blah blah. This love was so intense, and I wanted her to have the kind of life that she could build, that she deserved. Every single opportunity, every single adventure, I wanted her to build the life that she wanted, and I knew I couldn’t ask her of that if I didn’t do the same for me. Oh. And that just opened up everything. Like, it was like Pandora’s box. It was immediate realization that I wasn’t living my life for me, that I had lived it for everybody else.

Rae Pappas:
And so what that did for me was it forced me to start making some choices and some realize that I needed to change a few things, and I did that. Like, I started running again. I wasn’t able to exercise during pregnancy because I had some what they call an incompetent cervix. I don’t think a woman came up with that phrase. I have to tell you. I I’m pretty sure.

Kate Beere:
Certainly not.

Rae Pappas:
So I couldn’t go to the gym. I couldn’t lift weights. I couldn’t run. As soon as I had her, I was back running. I ran a 5 k 7 weeks after giving birth. Wow. Not donut. I do not advise that.

Rae Pappas:
Do not do that.

Kate Beere:
I relate to the running thing. I had something else, SPD. I can some physis pubis dysfunction, I think it’s called, where I couldn’t I couldn’t exercise at all. Yeah. I was a runner. And so I remember when I was pregnant, I would watch people run.

Rae Pappas:
Oh, yeah.

Kate Beere:
And I’d be like, oh, I just I cannot wait to go for a run. I I so relate to that. And that second when you’re running again, it’s like So you’re feeling a freedom. Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
You know what I did to drown out that Yeah. Desire to run when I was pregnant? I sat on the couch, and I did the 2 for me, 1 for you, Timbit thing with my dog. Yeah. That was not healthy.

Kate Beere:
But required. But I’m tired.

Rae Pappas:
To dampen the missing of the athleticism.

Kate Beere:
But required.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah. So then when I had Avery and I wanted her to have this life Yeah. I started running again. I started getting back into the gym and lifting heavy because I’m a heavy weightlifter. I quit my job in IT, and I went for something that paid almost half as much because it was for a not for profit. It was doing something that I really wanted to do. Amazing. And I had this incredible female boss, Gail.

Rae Pappas:
And she when I met her for the interview, the compassion, the intelligence, the leadership that she offered, I thought immediately, I this is this is where I wanna be. So I started making these little incremental changes, and that led to bigger changes in my life. Wow. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
So with changes, the first word that comes into my mind is often sometimes challenges. So if we talk about navigating challenges, being able to make those sacrifices as you walk through that journey, tell us a little bit more about the sacrifices that you feel you made for your daughter’s well-being, particularly during, that process of doing that on your own without a partner? Yeah. So

Rae Pappas:
when Avery was in senior kin junior kindergarten, she was like 4 years old, I realized so I had this epiphany. I walked out of a Starbucks wearing my Lululemon Mhmm. And got into my CRV, and I almost vomited all over myself in disgust at this person who was wearing and carrying all these brand labels. And I thought, who the fuck is this? This is not me. This is not who I am. I I I wanted to rip my skin off, jump in a tub of acid, and just start over. Wow. And I realized I needed to leave the security of my marriage where I had, someone to share the bills, who had a pension, and I needed to do it now.

Rae Pappas:
Because when I looked in my daughter’s eyes, there was no sparkle there anymore. She had picked up on the vibe in the house that we were both very unhappy. Yeah. And I needed to make that change now. And interestingly enough, I didn’t wanna make the change because I was afraid of divorcing because I have a daughter. But when I talked to these 2 guy friends of mine independently, they said, you need to make the change because you have a daughter. And so I did, and I left. It was a it was a good divorce.

Rae Pappas:
I did it all myself. I did the separation papers. I did the divorce paperwork. We didn’t engage a lawyer because we both agreed we needed to separate and live our own lives, but it meant I left the house. I left everything. I didn’t I took my bed. I took a TV. Wow.

Rae Pappas:
I took my car, and I took half of Avery’s belongings and some photos and some Christmas decorations, and I started my life over again. And that was really, really scary, kind of. It was also really, really exciting. And there was this deep down belief inside of me that I was gonna be okay, that this was gonna be okay. But along that path of making that choice, I lost some really key people. I my mom stopped talking to me for about 6 months. Wow. And she was my best friend.

Rae Pappas:
She was my safe space. But being a single mom, she didn’t want me to feel go through what she had gone through. Yeah. The sacrifices, the no money. Yep. But I did that. Like, there were nights I didn’t eat. Avery ate dinner, but I didn’t eat because I just knew if I did eat, she wouldn’t have lunch for tomorrow.

Kate Beere:
So how did those powerful experiences and and tough journey, how how did those shape you? Like, how does that shape your determinate like, obviously, you know, you’re you’re you you go through it and you it shapes you as an individual. It has to. Right? Those tough moments. What was sort of the the outcome for you in those tough moments? Like, what what can you take away from those moments?

Rae Pappas:
That it’s all gonna be okay if you have the right guiding force. So I call my daughter my light, not to put pressure on her. She’s not the reason I live my life, but she is my light. She is my north star. As long as I kept her in mind as being okay in the outcome of whatever choices I was making. Mhmm. I knew I was on the right path. And I would hit bumpers, you know, like in a pinball game when you hit a bumper and it kind of shoots your ball off to the left or right or wherever? Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
It can be a shit show. But as long as I regroup and recalibrate and focus on the process of getting to that light Mhmm. It’s all gonna be okay. And I learned that. I learned that there’s I have grit and determination, and I’m so much stronger than I ever realized. But I think we all have that inside of us, and we don’t feel it or recognize it until we’re faced with that adversity, until we have to show up for someone, for ourselves, and no one is going to catch us. Yeah. Mhmm.

Rae Pappas:
And you have to rely entirely on yourself.

Kate Beere:
Mhmm.

Rae Pappas:
But you’ve got this little person who’s counting on you, or maybe you have more than one little person. Yeah. And you have to make it okay. You can. You will. Just keep moving forward. Just go one little step further today. So powerful.

Wendy Dodds:
I think we get caught up sometimes, and I think we’ve all kinda walked through the journey of divorce and and being able to to move through that one foot in front of the other. But I find sometimes people get so paralyzed with thinking about everything else down the road instead of that, you know, one step in front of the other and just, you know, today, I’m gonna make today a great day, and I’m gonna get through today. And I’m gonna, you know and so I can imagine, you know, for you being able to do this on your own with such a a young child. You know, my girls were older when I separated. It doesn’t matter what age they are, but it all brings different journeys and different you know? So, you know, just the way you share that story is so powerful on, you know, her eating, you know, at night and and and maybe you not so that, you know, you could feed her the next day.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
And I’m sure you had those moments where you were like, just gotta get through the today or oh my god. But

Rae Pappas:
I’ll figure out tomorrow tomorrow. Figure out tomorrow tomorrow. But right now, that’s a problem. Yeah. Exactly. And today, I can control this, and I can do this, and I can, one thing I did was I had, one of her best friends over. And I what I did was I found this little basement apartment in a house because I wanted Avery to feel safe because that’s another one of my top values is stability. Mhmm.

Rae Pappas:
And I know that that’s one of hers. And so I wanted her to feel safe and not be in, like, an environment that was too unfamiliar. So I got this 1 bedroom apartment, and we shared a bed. It was a tiny little kitchen. There’s no dining room, little living room, and I had her friend come over. And that made it okay Mhmm. Because it made it normal that this friend could come over, and they could have a play date, and they could do all the things that little girls wanna do. They could play in the driveway, play chalk, hopscotch, whatever, but I had to make it okay in that moment, and I would figure out tomorrow, tomorrow.

Rae Pappas:
And that’s sort of the approach that I took, and that’s just what got me through every day. But I also had some women that I could count on. Mhmm. And it’s funny because they’re not in my life anymore. Mhmm. But they were there for a period of time, and they were going through similar life changes, and we just bonded together over that. And at the time, I thought that they would be around forever. I couldn’t anticipate my life without those 2 women.

Rae Pappas:
Right. But we were just there for each other for that period of time. And then when we didn’t need each other, we shed each other, just like those layers. Yeah.

Kate Beere:
That’s so cool. My mom says it. I’ve quoted this before, but, like, I some friendships come for a reason this season or a lifetime. And sometimes there’s a reason, and and it can be a reason in a season, but that reason sometimes is situational. And being able to find support in people, that are going through the same thing is so needed. It’s just you know? And it might not be that you have a whole lot in common outside of that one reason, which, you know, sometimes is similar circumstances. Single mom brings you together. Yeah.

Kate Beere:
But so needed, right, at that time.

Wendy Dodds:
And being open to that as well. Yeah. I find as women, sometimes we feel the need to always soldier on and and be the strong ones and know I could do it on my own because we have such a passion is not the right word, but such a desire to be able to say that I did this on my own. And Yeah. While we celebrate that, also being able to be open to having that support and being open to on those days that aren’t so great, being open to have those people in your life.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
And celebrating for what you’ve been able to achieve, but also having people, the right people in your circle who have your back on those days where you feel like you’re just falling apart. And and, you know Yeah. Tacos fall apart too, but we we tend to love them. I don’t know where that came from. But, that’s just such a great journey. And and I I love that you mentioned that they’re not in your life now, but you mentioned it in a way that celebrates the time that you did have with them. Because I think as women, it’s our friendships and relationships, and we’ve talked about this before on the show, naturally evolved depending on what stage in evolution

Rae Pappas:
Right.

Wendy Dodds:
We’re at in our lives. Yeah. And and that’s okay. And I love what your mom said around, you know, seasons and reasons and

Kate Beere:
and Nine times. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
With all of us raising, young adults now, teenagers and young adults, I just think that’s such a wonderful message. And and I have that conversation with my daughter sometimes, like, it’s okay to still move on from those friendships from before. It doesn’t mean that it’s bad. It just means that you’re growing and you’re changing and you’re in a different stage in your life.

Rae Pappas:
Right. I totally, totally relate to that. And I try and help my daughter understand that as well because she’s now in 2nd year university. She’s in the sciences, and that’s not a a realm that is overflowing with women, young women, especially. No. And so she’s finding her tribe through understanding who she is. It was funny. She early on in this semester, the winter semester at university, she walked into the wrong classroom, and she sat down.

Rae Pappas:
And she was looking around, and she thought, these aren’t my people. Well, she was in, like, an arts classroom, like an English literature classroom, and she immediately got the vibe. These aren’t my people. So she’s really understood and listened to the guidance that she’s received from me and other women in her life and other men too who contribute to that of how to identify who she is and what’s important to her and to recognize that in other people. And it was funny that she could intrinsically feel that without even speaking to someone, but just by how she picked up the vibe in that room. And then it really wasn’t it wasn’t the whatever molecular biology or whatever it is that maybe it was the lack of microscopes that they gave it away. I don’t know.

Wendy Dodds:
But while she’s your north star, she’s tuned into her north star

Rae Pappas:
Yes. On Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
You know, just becoming very intuitive. And I I think that kind of speaks to you being able to lead by example, as her mom, and also helping her be able to empower herself just like you’ve empowered her. So if we kinda shift the focus a little bit and talk about your dedication to empowering women, Ray, extends so much more beyond your personal journey with what you’ve done. How do you think, your actions have influenced and inspired other women?

Rae Pappas:
Oh, that’s a good question. I it’s funny because, we had this situation at work. So I love my job. I love the people I work with, but there was a time early on in my career when it was a very toxic situation. And the people involved in this toxicity were primarily women, women who were trying to undo each other to some degree. And I was caught in the middle of that. And I actually would come home from work crying. And my husband, John, would say to me, what is it that makes you is making you cry? What is the problem here? What is causing you so much discomfort? And it was because, it didn’t align with my values.

Rae Pappas:
Mhmm. I could I didn’t have the language to express it then. Yeah. But I recognize it now looking back that it was, these people, these 2 primary characters were acting in a way that just it was almost bullying behavior against each other. And they were trying to pull in other people to support their cause. And it just reminded me so much of high school toxicity. Toxicity. And just that mean girl

Wendy Dodds:
Yep. Drama.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah. Drama. And I decided I wasn’t gonna be a part of it, and so I actually went into work one day, and something had taken place the day before. It was around the holidays, and we had been instructed to effectively ignore this entire team who had shown up at a restaurant where we were having our team lunch, and it just by chance, they showed up with their group as well. And they’re my peers and my colleagues. And I was told, do not acknowledge them. Don’t talk to them. Just pretend like they’re not here.

Rae Pappas:
Wow. And you I’m not that kind of person. I love talking to people. I wanna talk to all of the people Right. To my husband’s chagrin sometimes late at night being at the party, and he’s like, good talk, Ray. Let’s go home. So I the next day after I went home and I cried after that that experience of being told to ignore people and actually doing that, like, I didn’t go up and say hi. I didn’t wish them a happy holiday or merry Christmas.

Rae Pappas:
I went the next day, and I apologized to them, and I cried. And I was a woman of 38 years old or something like that, and I cried. And I said, I’m sorry that I was part of that pain for you. And they cried. And it caused not my behavior, but the whole toxic environment caused this HR intervention. And I was interviewed, and I expressed my experience. And I said, you know what? If you want me to behave in a way that I didn’t, like, if you want me to be a different person and you want me to have handled the situation differently, I don’t wanna work here. You don’t deserve me.

Rae Pappas:
I will leave.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. Good for you.

Rae Pappas:
And that took a lot of guts because I’m the breadwinner in the family at that point. Right. I have a daughter. I have a pension in this place. Yeah. I have built up my reputation. I worked here for 5 years. I asked for this job.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah. And I don’t quit anything, but I was ready to walk out that door. And I didn’t realize it, but people women and people were watching me. And since then, I have just continued to I so powerful. And it’s I mean, it speaks volumes

Wendy Dodds:
about your character and being able

Rae Pappas:
to stand up like

Kate Beere:
that, especially in the workplace, is is so hard. Right? To find your voice, I think, professionally, is almost harder sometimes in those environments, especially too if it’s a triggering event. Like, we’ve most of us have experienced bullying at some point in our lives. And if that goes against one of your core values too, it is, like, deep rooted. Right? So that is not that is a very uncomfortable place that is deep rooted. So to have a voice after that is amazing because that’s a lot of work. A lot of oh, it it just like, that is the evolution, right, as you start to come into yourself. So on that, how do you help support other women but keep those boundaries? Right? So what are the boundaries that that serve you well but also wanting to help and uplift and support others?

Rae Pappas:
So I didn’t realize that people were actually watching my actions as I walked through that toxic journey. I had a team of all women at the time. I was I only had, like, 3 or 4 staff who reported directly into me, but, they’ve watched they watched my response to that, and they understood that, they could then in turn behave that way, and that I would support them, and I would be that protector that I am I’m a mama bear at work. I I hold you accountable, but I will back you up. If you make a mistake, that’s fine. Nobody’s dead because of your mistake. It’s not like we’re frontline Mhmm. Workers in a dangerous situation.

Rae Pappas:
I work in a frigging office. Like, no one’s gonna die if you make a mistake. Fine. And they from that from watching me walk my steps through that journey and have the courage, they found their own voices, and they’re able to represent themselves at work. And what that’s done is not only are they feeling happy to walk into work, they don’t get the Sunday scaries. Mhmm. They actually love their job. I think 85% of my team are all mothers or parents.

Rae Pappas:
Oh, wow. And they’re accepting challenges and promotions because of that. And I I say that so let me rephrase a little bit. As a mom or as a parent, your child gets sick. You have to take time off. You have to take care of them. You know, daycare is full of germs, then you’ve got school, and you’ve got sports, and lunch break, and everything comes

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
Into your house. So they get sick, you get sick. It’s that work life balance. So many times in the past, women have turned down promotions or haven’t asked for promotions because they have the parental responsibility, and they don’t think that they can do both. These people who I work with know they can do both. That that taking a day off, if your kid is sick, do it. Absolutely. I know you’re gonna do your job Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
And that we’re gonna be fine, and we’ll find that balance. And you can always hand it over to another woman on the team or another man who is supportive of you in your journey, and they can pick up the slack for you. That’s the team that I’ve built, and I didn’t even realize I was building it just by behaving that way myself. Mhmm. And so there is now I think I have a team of about 25 to 30 people who directly or indirectly report into me, and they all support one another. The collaborative energy on our team is phenomenal. It’s renowned across the organization. People wanna poach my team all the time.

Rae Pappas:
Of course, they do. Because they’re awesome, and they’ve learned to support each other. And they’ve learned to be to say, I need help. I need to take tomorrow off.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. That’s also through solid leadership. Right? So through you leading your team that way with empathy and compassion and mean, we’ve all, I think, worked in some sort of toxic work environment. I think, you know, we’ve all, I think, worked in some sort of toxic work environment. I think, mean, we’ve all, I think, worked in some sort of toxic work environment at some point. But that’s an amazing gift to be able to give to the people you work with.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah. I agree.

Wendy Dodds:
And to be able to give people permission, I think, just hearing you share that, giving them permission to be their their authentic selves Mhmm. But also permission to ask for help, permission to not make it perfect, permission to, have a bad day Yeah. Permission to, you know, and and to be able to work in an environment and feel like you have that collaborative supportive network that’s cultivated from the top up because you’ve you know, as you’ve gone through your journey and shared your values and and what’s and your beliefs and what’s important to you, and that’s been obviously passed on to your daughter, but also passed on to, you know, you in your workspace, which we spend so much time at work Mhmm. In the jobs that we do. And it’s probably one of the worst feelings to go to work and have that feeling on Sunday night. I know I’ve certainly experienced where I’m like,

Rae Pappas:
oh my god.

Wendy Dodds:
I just I don’t wanna go. I don’t wanna go. And that’s where, you know, the whole mental health component kinda comes into play. But Yeah. The fact that you’ve, you know, been able to and I will say and, you know, you could probably, state this as it doesn’t happen overnight. Right? You know, this is a gradual process where you know, because there’s people gonna be listening thinking, shit. I wish I had a, you know, a a great place like that to work. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
This is something that you cultivate over time. Right? It’s like seeds and a farmer plants, and, you know, it doesn’t things don’t sprout right away. It’s that constant cultivation and that nurturing and, you know, that watering and that care, that you’ve been able to

Rae Pappas:
It’s those constant touch points with your team, whether you’re a leader or a peer. You connect with your people, like when COVID first hit, and we were all sent to work from home because, fortunately, I worked in an office. I wasn’t, working in a service industry where I had to still show up. We were okay working from home.

Kate Beere:
Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
And so every morning at 7:30, I would get on a call with all of my team, and it was a smaller team at that point too, but it was just a daily check-in. How and literally, how are you today? Where where is your head at today? And creating that safe space where they could cry, where they could talk about the fear about their children. I mean, we didn’t know what tomorrow was gonna bring. That was this was unprecedented in our lifespan. Like, our parents didn’t even deal with this as far as I’m aware. To have those daily check ins to make sure everybody was okay despite not knowing what tomorrow would bring. Again, looking at just today, how can we make today okay? That’s what got us through together as a team, and it really knit us together. So there’s this really great book.

Rae Pappas:
It’s called The Universe Has Your Back, and it’s by Gabby Bernstein. And she Love Gabby Bernstein. Love Gabby Bernstein. I love her. If I could go to one of her shows Yeah. I would I would pay a lot of money. Yeah. And she approaches things with love and not from fear.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah. And so I try and take that approach whenever I see an opportunity or a challenge or just a situation. Yeah. How can I approach this from a perspective of love or positivity and not from a perspective of, oh my god? What’s gonna happen if?

Wendy Dodds:
You balance supporting women very well. You balance supporting raising your daughter. Yeah. How do you personally maintain healthy boundaries, self care?

Rae Pappas:
I make a point to get a good night’s sleep every night if I possibly can. Okay. So I’m 50 now, and I’m in menopause. Wine is not my friend. I cannot have a glass of wine and expect to have a good night’s sleep. So I really have to be conscious and make smart decisions about what I do when. So for me, sleep is really, really important because if I don’t sleep, I’m just not in a good mood the next day. And then I don’t feel like I’m enjoying my relationships with the people that are in my life, but I also trust my instincts.

Kate Beere:
Mhmm.

Rae Pappas:
And if I I will cheer on any, any woman at any point in their day, in their life, in their week. And I try really hard to listen. And I don’t mean just to their words, but to their body language, to their eyes and what they’re really trying to communicate. Yeah. If I pick up that you’re actually trying to pull a fast one on me, that you’re not actually being kind to me in that moment, fuck off. Yeah. I don’t need you in my life. I am okay

Wendy Dodds:
I love that. Without you Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
Playing a role in my life. And that that Amazing. That was something I learned through my divorce because when you when I divorced, I did that for me primarily. Yeah. Yeah. And so I learned to do things for me Yeah. And that that’s really important. Because when I do things for me, then I’m happy, and I can be really, truly the most awesome version of Ray in every aspect of my life, in my parenting I

Kate Beere:
love that.

Rae Pappas:
In my romantic relationship with my husband, with my mom, at my job, with my friends. At the gym, I can sparkle the way I wanna sparkle and have that vibe. So if you’re gonna bring toxicity or negativity, if you’re gonna talk about me behind my back, or if you don’t think that we’re a good fit, I’m okay with not having you around. And I will not send a text to someone just to check-in on them if I’ve identified that they’re that person.

Kate Beere:
That’s an that’s an amazing place to be at.

Wendy Dodds:
Amazing. And it’s a powerful statement. You’re giving permission to others, you know, but, of course, so setting yourself first in terms of this is where you are at in the stage of your life, recognizing that you don’t need everyone in your life to be, you know, you need those people that are in your circle there to see you, you know, win, cheer for you, help you when you need to be supported, but that you don’t have any time for, people who aren’t authentic or, you know, like you said, that that are pulling a fast one on you or just there

Rae Pappas:
for

Wendy Dodds:
and I think as women, we’re very intuitive. We have we have radar. Absolutely. Smell.

Kate Beere:
We have radar.

Wendy Dodds:
Authenticity a mile away. We have radar.

Kate Beere:
Well and the more you the more you lean into that and get like, we’ve talked about this before. Like, if something like, you talked about it with when it goes against your value when your body like, you feel stuff a lot of the time. And when you start getting present to that and you practice it and you understand, like, oh, that just feels off, but you maybe can’t put your finger on what it is. It did. Just knowing that it’s off should be enough for most people to trust it, but we don’t. We generally just we’re like, oh, it’s no big deal. Blah blah blah. But for you to be that in tune with that is is incredible.

Rae Pappas:
That’s

Wendy Dodds:
great. We’re worried about fear, disappointing others. Exactly. You know? And so we we we don’t trust our gut. We don’t listen to, you know, our feelings.

Rae Pappas:
Or we put our feelings aside for the sake of somebody else because we wanna make peace or we want to have harmony. Yes. You know, especially if it’s a family member or, for sure. In law, for example. Yo. That’s tough.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
It’s so tough. That’s scary.

Rae Pappas:
Because what if your what if your partner doesn’t support your decision, or you cause a little rift? Or, you know, there’s so many ripple effects that can come from one little missed message or miscommunication. You have to be okay with that.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. And I love when you talk about fair love because I use that one a lot. Mhmm. It was I was on a I heard it on an Oprah podcast, but it’s like we do everything we do is out of 2 things. It’s either fear or love.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah.

Kate Beere:
And it’s that simple. And if you can come at it with love and not fear, right, it’s it’s that simple. If you look at every situation with the that lens, it’s an easy one for people to take away. Is it fear? Am I acting out of fear, or am I acting out of love?

Rae Pappas:
That’s right. Am I reacting out of fear, or am

Kate Beere:
I reacting out of love?

Wendy Dodds:
And what a great way to be able to sorry to interrupt you, but what a great way to be able to help guide your parenting, and and help Yeah. Teach your kids in a really simple way how to listen to their intuition and how to be okay with not having everybody in their corner and being okay with moving on from things, but also being able to identify fear or love because it’s just a very simple, formula, I guess, you can call it that people can use no matter what age. But especially as we as we raise careful.

Kate Beere:
There’s a microphone in front of you. I know it’s a big podcast. When did they buy? This year. When did they buy?

Wendy Dodds:
But using that as that, way to be able to guide our children

Rae Pappas:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
In a in a society filled with the pressures of having to be on or perfect or somebody that we’re not all the time.

Rae Pappas:
Right. Yeah. So when Avery was in grade 1, I wanna say, she was in school, and, there was an abundance of lice in that classroom. Like, it was everywhere. The teachers on that floor, every single teacher, and they were all women, they were wearing hats, toques, scarves, anything to protect their head, and nobody was able to resolve the problem. And it was over Thanksgiving, and Avery would come home, and she would have lice again. No. Like, oh my god.

Rae Pappas:
And using Colada shampoo, I know that that’s a carcinogen. Yeah. But I had to keep doing it, repeating the treatment over and over again and combing through her hair, and she has my hair. Like Yeah. It’s a lot of hair to go through, okay, with one of those life combs. It was painful. And I thought, I’m challenging this. This is not okay.

Rae Pappas:
And, I wound up going to that school with the support of my boss at the time and going to that school every Tuesday at lunch and doing life checks. And I found a resource. I started a group for the parents in the classroom on Facebook. And another woman, her name was Kim, we met doing the life checks. So she said, yes. I will come and do this too because my son is also being affected, and this is ridiculous. Like, this needs to stop. Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
But the principal, who is a man, had refused to acknowledge the problem. He refused to send children home if they had lice, and he refused to acknowledge that there was a significant lice outbreak in his school. So Kim and I went every single week. We would I would do Tuesday, she would do Thursday, and we would spend our lunch hour combing through children’s hair. When we found lice on one child’s head, we would march that child down to the office and ask the office to call that parent and have them pick up their child. I was challenging the bureaucracy. I was challenging the man in power. And you know what? Those teachers still to this day are friends on my Facebook, and they were so grateful because they couldn’t execute that act because they’re they’re in a position that was very sensitive, and they couldn’t challenge their principal’s authority.

Rae Pappas:
So I said, that’s enough. We’re gonna do this. And Avery still remembers that. To this day, she remembers the principal’s name. I’m not gonna say it because that’s not nice. Yeah. But challenging for other people to make sure that they’re safe is an absolute necessity in my book. And I will, again, that mama bear comes out.

Rae Pappas:
Yeah. There’s someone who needs help, and they happen to all be women. I’m dropping my lunch hour. I don’t need it. Wow. I’m going in, and I’m gonna fix this problem because I can affect change. Yeah. And I think it’s really important that women listen, like you said, Kate Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
To their instincts, recognize when they need to rise into their power and take control and try. Just try and go.

Kate Beere:
From, like, you obviously feel and I love that you’re so supportive of women from, like, a legacy standpoint. That’s a powerful word. But, like, what would you like to leave? Like, what is that legacy for your daughter or for for other women? What is that one thing that you think you really want those close to you, I. E, your daughter or other women just to take away if there was one thing?

Rae Pappas:
That they are enough. Mhmm. You are enough. Yeah. And because I didn’t realize that until I became a mom, and I wish I’d known it sooner. But also, I don’t because I love who I am now, and I recognize that my journey created who I am today.

Kate Beere:
Yeah.

Rae Pappas:
And so without that, I wouldn’t be having this conversation with you Yeah. Most likely. So, definitely you are enough. And remember that when you walk into a room, no matter who is in that room and no matter what situation you’re facing. Wow. You’re in

Wendy Dodds:
I love the beauty and the simplicity of that. Right. It’s just, you know, even using it as a mantra every morning, or in times where you feel like you’re questioning yourself. Yeah. That’s that’s beautiful. Yeah.

Kate Beere:
It’s one of my meditation ones.

Wendy Dodds:
Oh.

Kate Beere:
It’s an I am. I am enough.

Rae Pappas:
Yes. Period. I am enough.

Kate Beere:
And there’s nothing else after it.

Wendy Dodds:
I love it. That’s right.

Kate Beere:
And I’ll and and that may be a whole meditation. And that but half an hour. I am enough. I’m enough. I’d say it different way.

Wendy Dodds:
But the simplicity. Right? We tend I mean, as not that as women, we would ever overcomplicate anything.

Rae Pappas:
Never. Never. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
I mean, Rob tells me I don’t overcomplicate anything, but just what a beautiful, simple, clean, powerful statement.

Rae Pappas:
And you don’t have to Just that. Just that.

Wendy Dodds:
I love it. Yeah. If, we just to kinda touch on that, inspiration and empowerment. So lots of women listening who may be facing similar challenges, whether it’s going through a divorce, having the courage to to walk that journey, raising a child on their own, finding their place in in, in in a work environment, whether it’s male dominated environment or not or or a toxic work environment. What message of inspiration would you have, for women seeking challenges or not seeking challenges who are facing similar challenges or seeking to live more authentically.

Rae Pappas:
I think it really is just take it for today. What can you do today? Also, go for a walk because that will help you really just take a break from everything and focus just on you, and something will come to you. I I I think it was in, like, an Arnold Schwarzenegger book, that I read, and he talks about how so many smart people go for walks just to figure shit out. Right? Just go for a walk. It simplifies everything. It’ll clear your head, and it will help you get through that moment of whatever it is that you’re facing because I promise you, it’s not that hard that you can’t fix it, solve it, do it, whatever the it is that you need to accomplish. Take a minute. Go for a walk.

Rae Pappas:
The answer will come to you. And if it doesn’t, just do your best today because maybe tomorrow will bring you something you have no idea.

Kate Beere:
I love it.

Rae Pappas:
Maybe tomorrow will bring you something better. Just get through today. Try to try something today.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. I love the stillness. Like, the walk running that was running for me, I would solve

Wendy Dodds:
All the world problems.

Kate Beere:
Totally world hunger. I did all Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
World peace.

Kate Beere:
It’s all I had it all, like, all sorted. But I go for a run and just, like, with a lot of loud music, that’s how I like to run. Oh, yeah. And I would just run and I would tune out. And all of a sudden, everything would just start to get so clear. Clear for me. Crystal clear when you let go, and you’re just there.

Wendy Dodds:
It’s amazing when we carve carve time out and we take ourselves away out of an environment that we’re in to be able to do something for ourselves, like go for a walk, go for a run. You know, I have a friend that she she loves water, so she swims. And for her, that’s just very therapeutic and helps her clear her mind.

Kate Beere:
Yeah. As we’re nearing the end of the show, I have a final question. I’d love to know what living richly

Rae Pappas:
means to you. K. So I’m gonna really date myself here. I need you to ask this question, so I gave it some thought. Do you remember the cartoon? I can just look at my notes here. For better or for worse?

Kate Beere:
Yes. Okay. I’d love for better or for

Wendy Dodds:
too. That

Kate Beere:
is so good.

Rae Pappas:
It was so good. Yeah. So there was this one particular cartoon that was on a Saturday, and, the mom in the cartoon asked their child to mow the lawn. And the message in the cartoon was, basically, you can either hate every second of mowing the lawn or you can find the joy in mowing the lawn. And so living richly to me means I wake up in the morning. Maybe I feel like shit. Maybe I don’t. I’m waking up, and I’m looking every day to find that joy in whatever it is that I’m facing that day.

Rae Pappas:
And that’s what living really means to me is finding that those pockets of joy, even in things that I just have to get done. That to me is living richly because you can find that everywhere. If you just look for it, if you just take a minute.

Kate Beere:
I love that. It’s beautiful. I love that.

Rae Pappas:
I love it so much so that I have it tattooed on my arm.

Kate Beere:
Oh, that’s amazing. But I

Rae Pappas:
have love on the other arm because that’s a reminder to me to choose love and not fear.

Kate Beere:
That’s amazing. Beautiful. Thank you so much for being on the show, for sharing your story. So inspiring. And I know you’re gonna inspire others. Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Wendy Dodds:
Pleasure having you on.

Rae Pappas:
It’s so good to talk with you too today.

Wendy Dodds:
My cheeks hurt from smiling. So

Kate Beere:
and thank you to our listeners for tuning in today. It was a great episode. As always, you can check out our website at livingrichly.me for all of the show notes from today’s show. You can also sign up for our Facebook page. Our Living Richly Nation is taking off. There’s so many powerful conversations happening each and every day. And now live, which we’re very excited about is the 15 day life vision challenge. Always such a mouthful to say, but it’s such a I did it.

Kate Beere:
It’s such a powerful tool. It’s free. It’s online. You can do it at your own pace, and it’s gonna help you map out where you wanna be in life. Very powerful. So be sure to check it out. Until next time, get out there and continue living your best life.

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