Unlocking Authenticity – from Illusion to Empowerment with Catherine Fair

Unlocking Authenticity – from Illusion to Empowerment with Catherine Fair

Catherine Fair:
I’ve been frustrated by challenges associated with anxiety and depression and chronic pain since I was, like, 12 years old. The people around me, the the people that were supposed to be looking out for me didn’t know what they were doing. And so as, like, a 5 year old, I’m trying to figure it out on my own. I moved 27 times in 21 years.

Rob Dale:
Wow. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
I was searching. At the time, I thought I was being unique and adventuresome. But now I look back and I go, no. I was searching. I was desperate. Desperately searching for some place to

Rob Dale:
belong. Hi, and welcome to the Living Rich Lee podcast. So great that you’ve joined us again this week, and I’m real excited about our special guest today, Katharine Fair, who I’ve known for many years. She’s a colleague of mine at Rhapsody Strategies, and, and it’s it’s about time we’ve got you on the show to share your story. So welcome, Katharine.

Catherine Fair:
Did you know we’ve known each other for 10 years?

Rob Dale:
I tell you, I’ve I actually would’ve guessed it to be closer to 12 years, but, yeah, at least 10 years. For 10 years as Rhapsody.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
And then, of course, when I was with Eric at Breakthrough Cove, we would have been connected a bit there as well. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, but welcome. It’s great to

Catherine Fair:
have you

Rob Dale:
Thank you.

Catherine Fair:
On the show. Thank you very much.

Rob Dale:
And we’re really just gonna dive in and wanna learn about you and your story. And again, I know that you’ll inspire many people. You’re a successful business person. You have had incredible success in a number of different industries before you came over to start working with us at Rhapsody and being a part of the coaching team there. You’re a master coach now. I mean, you really you surround yourself with a bunch of guys at work as well, which is, you know, that’s worthy

Catherine Fair:
of accomplishment. In itself. Yeah. Maybe just talk Debatable whether it’s wise or not, but Right. Yeah. We’re still working on that one.

Rob Dale:
Exactly. So in some ways, it appears like you just kinda went from one success to the next. But I also know that appearances can be a bit deceiving. Maybe talk about a bit of your journey to where you are now when it comes to just as a as a businesswoman.

Catherine Fair:
Right. Yeah. It appears. Isn’t that a great phrase? Right? Illusion.

Rob Dale:
The illusion of the

Catherine Fair:
app. Illusion of having your shit together. Yeah. Right? And I don’t know how many times I’ve had people say that to me where it’s like, oh, yeah. But you just you just seem like you have your shit together, and I’m thinking,

Rob Dale:
oh. Right.

Catherine Fair:
Okay. Fooled another one. Yeah. No. I I would not say it’s been smooth sailing at all. I’ve been frustrated by challenges associated with anxiety and depression and chronic pain since I was, like, 12 years old. So, you know, in every step of my life, whether it was relationships or jobs or friends, meetings. Remember how many remember how much trouble I had with meetings when we first Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Get together. They were all riddled with things associated with the anxiety and and the depression. So, yeah, from a pretty early age. And, like, I remember grade 5, I was diagnosed with a stomach ulcer. I was, like, 10 years old. Like, maybe there’s something going on there. You know? But, yeah, we didn’t know what was going on at the time. Right.

Catherine Fair:
The thing is is that you you have many people who have depression and, certainly, anxiety is you can go a long time and not realize that that’s what you have Yeah. That that’s what’s going on. And, certainly, to not know that there’s something else, that it can be different.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. So how did it how did it show up for you, when you were younger? You talk about, at that young age that that came out and you had the anxiety. Did you know at the Like was it being diagnosed as such early on that you had this? This is now looking back.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah.

Rob Dale:
So then how was it showing up for you? And what were some of the things that you were thinking or the scripts that you were telling yourself experiencing this, without it being understood or or diagnosed?

Catherine Fair:
Well, the main one is that I wasn’t safe, That that, that the the people around me, the the people that were supposed to be looking out for me didn’t know what they were doing. And so as, like, a 5 year old, I’m trying to figure it out on my own. So really, really early having to figure that stuff out on my own. And so it showed up as just not feeling safe. Mhmm. The other major script was, I am alone, and the other one was, I’m a pain in the ass, which means you gotta take care of everything. Mhmm. So what did that show up as later? I didn’t trust anyone.

Catherine Fair:
Certainly didn’t trust people in a place of authority that were making decisions that were going to affect me. I just didn’t trust him.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
And so I would come up with my own solution, my own idea about it, and then that’s what I would stick to. Unless somebody could give me really super concrete reasons why their way of doing it made more sense. Mhmm. And then I could switch like that and be That’d be cool. Okay. Yeah. Sure.

Wendy Dodds:
So as you kinda move through teen years and then, you know, as you started your career, how did you find that showed up for you, and and how did you learn to, I wanna say, overcome, but also embrace that as you started off your career?

Catherine Fair:
Well, the embracing didn’t come until a lot later. During my career, anxiety and depression can so impact your productivity. And and it really did. And and most of my career past age 25 was in sales. And it’s particularly true in the area of sales because you’re self motivating.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
Right? You have it’s self directed employment. You’ve gotta be motivating yourself. Right. And you’ve got these horrible scripts going on in your head, and you’re beating yourself up. And you show up at an appointment, and and you can’t even get out of the car because you’ve talked yourself into believing that this is Right. This isn’t safe. Mhmm. Right? So it was very challenging.

Catherine Fair:
But the biggest that I could deal with. The biggest problem I had was in relationships with friends, family, romantic relationships where, you know, if you’re thinking you’re a pain in the ass and you’re thinking you’re alone, think about that for a second. You’re in a relationship. I am alone. Therefore, you’re kind of this island Mhmm. By yourself, and it doesn’t make for good connecting

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
With individuals. So whether they’re friends or romantic. Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, looking back, like you said, Rob. Yeah. It was a a struggle.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. And those scripts, to your point, you know, so let’s use the pain in the ass one. Right? If if if you’ve got a script that is saying that, again, now what we do is, we know this from a lot of the work we do, we start to look for evidence that that’s true. Right. And so let’s use a romantic relationship. You’re in a romantic relationship where you believe you also believe that you’re alone and that you’re a pain in the ass. Now you’re looking for things and then you’re going, see I’m annoying them. See I’m And they may be like, you’re not.

Rob Dale:
Why are you saying that?

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. Or that’s cute.

Rob Dale:
Yeah, Yeah. Exactly. And then then you get more defensive. Right? We it’s self prophesy. Right? We begin to we we create out of the scripts that we’ve got, we create scenarios that support and defend the scripts that we believe.

Catherine Fair:
Well, we create our own reality.

Rob Dale:
Yep. A 100%. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, it was very challenging. The anxiety, prevented me from doing a lot of things. The chronic pain prevented me from doing a lot of things. I had a major knee surgery when I was 13, and it it prevented me from being an active teenager when I was an active teenager.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
And and so I started this other belief of there’s a lot I can’t do. So, you know, talk about you know, we’ve got 4 walls Right. Of bad statements about myself or or not supportive Right. Statements about myself. And it and I really went through life not realizing that it could be any different than that. It it it just didn’t occur to me. Like, it wasn’t even in my thoughts that it could be any different than this, that this was it. Or as, what’s that movie? As Good as It Gets.

Catherine Fair:
Yes. This is as good as it gets. You know? But it wasn’t until my mom died. So I would have been late thirties at that point, and she had been fighting breast cancer for many years. But it wasn’t until that happened that things started to shift. So I I had a lot of problems. Even a year after she had died, I was still having problems. So I was lucky enough to have an EAP program, through my job.

Catherine Fair:
And so I went to 4 sessions with a psychologist. On the last one, she had asked me to do this exercise about memories from when I was younger, and I I couldn’t do the exercise. And she looked at me and she said, there’s this psychiatrist that I’d like you to talk to. And and then she said, and this was the part that was really terrifying. She said, here’s his phone number. I’d like you to go down to your car. You have a cell phone. Right? And I was like, yeah.

Catherine Fair:
And I’d like you to call him right now. And I’m thinking, okay. What Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Like, this is scary. Yeah. But I went downstairs, and I made the call because she asked me to call her back and say whether I’d made the call or not. While I’m driving home, he calls me back. I totally didn’t expect that. Wow. And then, now I’m just, like

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Mhmm.

Catherine Fair:
Frozen in my place. But through the work with him, I was able to start to realize some new realities. So I had had this this illusion about what my family and my upbringing had been, that it that it had been a normal family, that we had had normal relationships, that my parents had raised us well. You know, it was safe. Mhmm. Because, no, we we had money. We were middle class. Mom and dad never lost their jobs.

Catherine Fair:
They weren’t separated or divorced. You know, nobody was beating us or anything silly silly like that. Like, nothing was terrible. So there was this illusion that all was good. But then there was this one day where this psych the psychiatrist said to me and he would do this to me every once in a while where just at the end of the appointment, he would give, like, one comment or question

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
Just before I’m about to leave. And this time, he said, I’ve been talking about my parents. And he said, completely no emotion or anything, no judgment, nothing. It was just flat. And he says, you’re very loyal. And I think my brain broke

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Because I remember leaving there and just kinda going, am I too loyal?

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
Should I not be loyal?

Rob Dale:
What was he meaning by that? Why was he yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Where was he

Rob Dale:
going with that? For sure.

Catherine Fair:
He always had some meaning too. Yeah. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Of course.

Catherine Fair:
I would leave those sessions, and I would stop at a burger joint, and I don’t eat burgers.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
And and I would get the biggest, greasiest burger I could get on the menu, and I would just gobble that down, drive the rest of the way home, sleep for 2 hours, and then usually cry for a couple of hours. And this happened every Thursday for years. Did that for 4 year 4 or 5 years, I think. But I made progress.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. So you’re this is, like you say, you’re in your thirties at this point. You’re in you’ve got a career going on. How are you balancing out, doing the, you know, working through some of those personal things and showing up now. I’m not sure where you would have been working at that point, but showing up in your place of employment and being the, I don’t know, the strong independent woman. Right. How are you balancing out those two things?

Catherine Fair:
The the job was, again, self directed employment. Right. I was on the road all the time. I rarely was around my colleagues. So we would have sales meetings every quarter, and that’s when we would all see each other. But on the road, it was just the the people

Rob Dale:
the safety or it was you’re you were alone.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. That’s right. And it was safe, wasn’t it? Mhmm. Yeah. So that’s how I dealt with that. But I gotta say, during that time, I’ve never been so happy to be single because I could come home and I could process and I could cry and I could do whatever it is I needed to do in the moment to process what was happening because a lot was happening. Mhmm. And and it was, it was, like, really significant.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. What was your biggest moment in that during that season?

Catherine Fair:
Oh. I know

Rob Dale:
there’s probably a lot, but you said it’s not happening. But maybe just for the you know, if you were to summarize it, what would be the big moment there?

Catherine Fair:
The the biggie was that my life up to that point had been an illusion. Mhmm. And and so I think what was so taking up all that energy was that I would go home, and I’d have to put all of my memories through a new filter. Mhmm. And I’d get a new filter almost every week. So it was exhausting. I mean, it was very, very tiring work. It was hard work.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. But it was rewarding as all hell. Like, I would recommend it to anybody. No matter how scared you are or how many preconceptions you have about getting that kinda help, can’t recommend it enough. You know? So, yeah, so for me, it was really just dealing with this whole new reality that showed up. A new and I like to call it the new illusion because now I’m creating yet another one. Right. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
And that one, I get to create. It’s not it’s so the first one, I had no control over. The second one, I it was kinda shoved down my throat, but the new one that I’m creating now is

Rob Dale:
Is yours.

Catherine Fair:
Is mine. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. I love it. It’s like an evolution of

Catherine Fair:
Absolutely. Solutions. Yeah. Yeah. Let’s shift gears a

Wendy Dodds:
little bit and and just, you know, talk a little bit about, your career path, because I think it’s fascinating, especially just from a female perspective. Right. So the last two jobs you had before joining Rhapsody were in sales. Mhmm.

Catherine Fair:
You

Wendy Dodds:
worked for a pharmaceutical company and then the Canadian Federation of Independent Businesses. So talking a little bit about what it was like as a woman, working sales in 2 very, strong industries that have a lot of male focus

Catherine Fair:
or male dominance. So what’s interesting about that is that so the first pharmaceutical company I worked for, that was true. It was male dominated. So of the team of 20, I think there were only 2 of us that were female, but we were the top performers. And that was happening throughout the industry at that time. This is in the nineties at this point. And the pharmaceutical companies know how to make money. Okay? If there’s anything they know, they know how to make money.

Catherine Fair:
Yep. So when they see something like that and they see a pattern, they’re like, what’s that all about? When I returned to the industry so I was in the industry for 5 years, then I went to Banff for 3 years, now for something completely different. And then I came back. By then, the industry had made this major shift, and it was the opposite. I think on the team of 40, there were 3 guys, maybe 5. Yeah. So it’d been like a flip flop. Total turnaround.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm. Okay.

Catherine Fair:
Still, a lot of the managers were male.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. And but they had incredible training programs for them. So, again, lucky because the managers were taught how to deal with that.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Catherine Fair:
So that was great. CFIB, it was, it was 5050 in terms of who was showing up for though those roles. Mhmm. So I personally have never experienced misogyny in my working roles. I’d like and, again, I consider myself lucky or I’m a steamroller, and I just walk in and I don’t notice and don’t care. I’m not sure. But either way, I know a lot of women experience that. Mhmm.

Catherine Fair:
Whether it’s a male dominated experience or not. Right? It could be just their one boss, and it’s all women. But me, personally, no. I haven’t. Interesting. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. It is interesting. And and you’re right. I you know, we’ve had some conversations around diversity and equality, even as a team at over the last little while, and and you shared some of that in in the context there. And, you know, I I wonder sometimes I love how you said that second part. It’s not maybe you did actually, maybe it was all around you. You were just not responding to it. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Or acknowledging it and so you’re just kinda moving, you know, kinda along through that. But you did you were successful in these roles, and, we often at Rhapsody sorry, Rhapsody here here with Living Richly on the on the podcast, we often talk about when people make that shift into the entrepreneur, you know, makes that shift and kinda, okay, here we go. You know, you made a shift from doing that into coaching, and had that conversation, I think, with Eric, was was Eric and Trevor. Yeah. With Eric and Trevor at the beginning. But you had that conversation around, you know, making this shift. What was that like to kind of make that adjustment? And and at the time, did it tie in at all to you reinventing yourself again?

Catherine Fair:
Well, it was very it was tie like, those scripts that I talked about were very, very prevalent through that time. I the the the transition was somewhat seamless for me because an awful lot of my CFIB clients became my coaching clients. I already had trust and those relationships.

Rob Dale:
Pool. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. And, so that, like, that portion of it was seamless. I didn’t really feel like I had shifted jobs because I was already doing, unofficial coaching with my CFIB clients. But where the real challenges rose for me, what was going on up here. Right? I’m still alone. I’m still a pain in the ass. I I I still don’t deserve. And, you know, all of those scripts were still there.

Catherine Fair:
And so that, I had to work through. And anytime you shift jobs, you go through that. Like, you’re you’re a big man on the the totem pole. Right? And then you come in, and you’re like, I know nothing. Right. Yes.

Wendy Dodds:
Why did they hire me?

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. You know? Yeah. So, I mean, there’s always that. But for for me, I just kept working through what I had always worked through, except when you’re coaching somebody and you’re giving them tools to work on or you’re asking them questions, and I’ve said this many times at at Rhapsody, is I don’t know who’s getting more out of it.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
Me or them. Because if I ask something of one of my clients, in all good conscience, I can’t ask it of them unless I’m willing to do it myself. So the growth was logarithmic in as a coach. And I think you guys would all all of you, the coaches at Rhapsody, would agree that that was the case. So through that, that’s where my real growth happened. And that’s where I’ve finally been able to recognize the the conversations that were happening, recognize that I had control over it. Like, at this point, I would say depression’s gone. Never coming back.

Catherine Fair:
I have control over that. I might have blue moments, but I know what to ask myself. I know what to say to myself. I know what to challenge myself on so that I can move forward and through it. Where before, I would just get stuck there because I didn’t even know what to say to myself because I believed everything that was I I was saying. Right. Now I challenge it.

Wendy Dodds:
But I love that you share that because a lot of people, I think, feel stuck and don’t know how to get unstuck. Yeah. But I think that you sharing just the years of work that you’ve done is just such a great testament to so many people who are on the journey who, in my opinion, give up very quickly because they feel like they’re not seeing results or getting traction or it’s just, you know, never ending. But, kinda hearing you in the space that you’re in today is just, I think, very inspiring for many people still walking that path, where it’s okay to still have those blue moments and and recognizing the difference between where you were and what you’ve been through and where you are now and, still navigating through that, but in a place where you’re recognizing, that it’s not what it was before.

Catherine Fair:
Well and for those people that, they don’t get the results that they’re looking for and so they stop, it that that’s actually a really important thing to recognize because, like, when I when I left for university, I moved 27 times in 21 years.

Rob Dale:
Wow. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
I was searching. At the time, I thought I was being unique and adventuresome. But now I look back, and I go, no. I was searching. I was desperate desperately searching for some place to belong. Right? To belong. And what also happened during that time was I realized that, in retrospect, that if something didn’t work, I simply wasn’t willing to live that way. I just it like, absolutely no way am I settling for this.

Catherine Fair:
I refused to settle for it. I refused that this was as good as it got. Yeah. And I would just keep looking. And I tried all kinds of things. One of the best things that happened to me was going to, women’s business connections and meeting all these different women. And a lot of them were in the, health care not health care, but healing Mhmm. Industries.

Catherine Fair:
And so I got exposed to a bunch of things I would never would have known existed. Right? So the healing arts. Right? And so I I was able to try a bunch of those things too. And it’s like going to training seminars. You can go if you’ve been going for 20 years, you know darn well that the training seminar you’re going to isn’t gonna rock your world. But you might get one thing Yeah. Out of that and take it with you. And that’s what was happening all those years.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Catherine Fair:
All those people I met and all the things I tried, I was getting one thing at least out of each of them. The real drinking from the fire hose came when I became a coach.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. It does. I I love that the the notion of curiosity. You know, we had Jesse White on the show last week and and he talked about that being one of his core values, which of course resonates because for Eric, because it’s one of Eric’s as well and that deep curiosity is a value that we hold to even at Rhapsody is this notion of just asking, you know, the powerful questions and wanting to learn and to grow. And it and it I love that you talk about it and I see that in you certainly in how you live life. You’re you’re a questioner. And in asking questions, you know, when the script is there that I’m a pain in the ass, the questions can you know, are the questions to trigger that, or are they curious questions because you wanna grow and learn? And I think for you, you know, for the most part, it’s I wanna learn and grow. And it’s taking that in and being able to say I’m so open to discover.

Rob Dale:
So many people who live live life so closed into with the blinders on as to what it is that they believe and they’re just not willing to, you know, oh, I can explore this and, yeah, no, no, I don’t buy that or I’m But just to be willing to do the exploration for many people, they don’t, and then they lose the opportunity to have all these experiences.

Catherine Fair:
Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
Well, even to embrace the micro changes along the way.

Catherine Fair:
Yes. A lot of

Wendy Dodds:
times, people are focusing on something, like some big revolution or some big mind blowing transformation, but having that illusion. Yeah. Having that patience along the way to take little pieces here and there, the I see them as all just micro changes that then evolve into, you know, who we end up being or who you are today.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. Yeah. Love that micro changes because that’s what it is.

Rob Dale:
Yep. Yeah. So you become a coach. Mhmm. You’re working with, the most amazing, wonderful, you know, me, and then Eric.

Wendy Dodds:
Sorry. Sorry, Catherine.

Rob Dale:
You know, and the rest of them. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Well, Steve. Steve. Steve.

Rob Dale:
He’s pretty good. Steve’s good.

Catherine Fair:
Hey. Hey. Not that Steve. Not you. Oh, no, no, no.

Rob Dale:
Yeah, it’s Steve who’s also been on the show as well. And you got this team and and people wanting to learn and grow. Yeah. One of the common themes that we address, on the show and we’re gonna be doing actually a full episode on this, coming up is impostor syndrome.

Catherine Fair:
Oh, yeah.

Rob Dale:
What was was there any of that, and how was that showing up for you as you start into this career where you’re literally guiding business owners on how to have successful businesses, how to run teams, how to all of the things that we do at Rhapsody, how was was it? And if so, how was it showing up, imposter syndrome?

Catherine Fair:
Yeah. I love how you you said, how was it showing up? And I’m thinking, you mean, how is it showing up? Right. Right. Yeah. Tell us. Does. Yeah. Right? Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
At this point. Yeah. Well, I think one of the things that helped me the most was that I would sit across from somebody who was experiencing imposter syndrome, and I could see their potential. Like, I could see it plain as as the day. Right? And and I would explain to them their worth and how wonderful they were and how much they had to offer, and I would be that person giving them that. And I would always I would say to myself, gosh. I wish I had somebody that did this to me. You know? I want I want a Catherine talking to me.

Catherine Fair:
Right. And then it was like, wait a minute.

Rob Dale:
I’ve got

Catherine Fair:
one. I’ve got one of those. Yeah. So, for sure, imposter syndrome for sure, and I we’ve all experienced it. But I remember the key there was that I didn’t have to have solutions. I didn’t have to be the greatest coach in the world. I just had to be curious

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Reserve judgment, and ask a lot of questions. And we, you know, we we sometimes joke about how as as, coaches, we are questionologists. And and that, you know, the great questions make all the difference in the world. And and that is what would stabilize me when I had those moments. And I still have them. Yeah. I absolutely still have them. I still have anxiety.

Catherine Fair:
I was anxious coming here today.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
You know, they’re they’re still there.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Catherine Fair:
It’s just we know how to have the conversation with ourselves now.

Wendy Dodds:
Right. And you probably recognize the signs, more than historically, where we start to recognize, okay. I know this feeling, but now I know how to navigate through that.

Catherine Fair:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
Whereas, usually, at the beginning, especially when we’re younger, we just we don’t know. So it’s almost like a fight or flight.

Catherine Fair:
Mhmm.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. That’s interesting.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. And so now you’ve we’ve been doing some pretty heavy lifting, at Rhapsody. Certainly, as we bring in we work with, you know, Doctor. Sherry, who’s been on the show. We worked with Doctor. Sherry. With Jim, who’s yeah, and Jim Harrington, who’s also been on the show. We’ve been doing a lot of that inner work.

Rob Dale:
Talk about some of the work that you’re doing in your life today to, how are you coaching Katherine, okay, on some of the things that you’re learning that apply to those scripts that you held on to for so long. So how is that being rewritten using the the the lessons you’re learning today?

Catherine Fair:
Well, I I can’t emphasize enough that getting help is like, I just can’t emphasize that enough. And it comes in many, many different forms. So, I mean, I’m sure the audience has has heard doctor Sherry this and doctor Sherry that and doctor Sherry and there’s a reason why we basically worship her is because she has helped us

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
So much. So I continue to use her services. And sometimes, it’s talking about really difficult stuff, and sometimes, we’re talking about where we’re traveling to and what we’re doing. And it’s that’s all it is, and that’s okay. Mhmm. But continue with that work. And the biggie is that challenging my own thoughts. Because before, what used to happen is the thoughts would happen, and I’d I’d try and control them.

Catherine Fair:
Mhmm. Right. And that’s tiring because it’s exhausting. Yeah. Right? They wrestle you to the ground. And so I would be exhausted from all these arguments that were going on in my head, and I would try and control them and stop them. Now it’s just a conversation, and it’s a gentle conversation. I’ve had to realize that all the stuff that’s going on up here that may or may not be negative is actually a younger version of me protecting me, but with poor information.

Rob Dale:
Mhmm.

Catherine Fair:
And so my role as the adult is to inform her that I don’t need that anymore, that I we have you and I, we have better ways to do that now.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. And

Catherine Fair:
so that is learning to have that conversation and be kind while you have it. Because up until very recently, that was a Yeah. Kinda Yeah. You know, let’s beat the crap out of yourself because you’re still not behaving. You’re still not thinking the way I want you to think. Right. And and so now it’s just a very gentle

Wendy Dodds:
conversation. Well, and it sounds like over time, that growth of compassion for yourself, which I think is such a you say that to me, you know, often. You know? Have some compassion for yourself, which is easier said than done. But I think just, like, hearing you talk about your journey over time and over the years, I think it’s just such a great message for so many people that it’s such a learned behavior.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
And and it’s something that you have to continue practicing. We’re so much easier to be kind and compassionate and gracious to everybody else, but always very difficult when it comes to ourselves. Yep.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Well, we like to use the language, and I think Eric probably coined it at least from on at the Living Richly table, but is the radical self acceptance or

Catherine Fair:
self compassion.

Rob Dale:
Right? Yeah. This notion of the, it’s not just about accepting yourself and who you are. It’s that radical self acceptances. It just takes it to another level when we use that language. And I think the only way you can truly show up authentically in the day to day of whatever you’re doing, in the way of coaching or whatever is by by by so radically embracing who we are that we don’t need to show up as anyone else in front of client. So we don’t need to be someone we’re not. We don’t need to I am so comfortable with clients now being able to, when they say, oh, I’m struggling with that, I can say, yeah, me too. Like, let’s talk about that because, right? And to your point, I don’t have to have answers.

Rob Dale:
I don’t have to have, I guide and I help, you know, it’s by through the questions. It it’s guiding and bringing ideas and principles to people, but it’s coming into this and just being I can just be me in that context, which is so refreshing, and it’s completely contrary to certainly 90% of my my time here on Earth where I’ve always tried to be someone else. And it sounds like that’s kinda what you’re working through. We we all of us do. I think all everyone does.

Catherine Fair:
And in coaching and you already know this, Rob. But in coaching, just showing up is half the help. Right. Like and, you know, so because of my own self talk about I am alone, I feel so strongly about being there for my clients. Like, it’s a passion for me that that it is important to them as well. I’m here. Don’t worry. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
We’re you’re not alone. We’re gonna do this together.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. Right.

Catherine Fair:
I’m gonna be here with you every step of the way. Right. And I think it’s really important to me that they know that they’re not alone because I know what it feels like

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
To be alone Yeah. Or to think I’m alone.

Rob Dale:
You’re one of the first people that introduced to me the battle with seasonal depression.

Catherine Fair:
Oh, yeah.

Rob Dale:
And I remember us having conversations probably 8 years ago, 7 years ago. At that point, you were buying, I think, a light, a Rite Aidaylight. Talk to you know, what what was that journey like kind of discovering that? How have you been managing that? I know you talked already about with depression and how you chained the you’ve reframed the questions and the control that it has over you. Is that applies with the seasonal depression? What has that been like?

Catherine Fair:
It does. A seasonal affective disorder, SAD, which, ironically, I used to sell medication for Right.

Rob Dale:
To pharmaceutical

Catherine Fair:
rep. Seasonal affective disorder, in the Ottawa area can start anywhere between September and January.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
And so I moved to Ottawa after living in Toronto for, I don’t know, 20, 25 years. I moved back to Ottawa, and the seasonal affective disorder hit me like a brick wall. And I also found I gained weight. I also found I drank more, and I also found that I was late for things. There was these bunch of things that all happened at the same time, and it took me a while to realize that what it was was seasonal affective disorder. And so, yeah, I got this this light at the it was called a Yuma light, y u m a. Not available anymore. Sorry, folks.

Catherine Fair:
But it was fantastic. I could I it was a visor, and I could wear it in the morning while I was another time, I was glad I was single.

Rob Dale:
Yes.

Catherine Fair:
I could wear it in the morning while I was getting my coffee and my breakfast and watching TV. It didn’t matter. Right? I could wear it for whatever minutes it was necessary for. And and so that really helped, but it was recognizing that that’s what was happening that needed me to go, okay. I gotta go find myself a new solution. Yep. So there there’s a solution out there. Damn it.

Catherine Fair:
I’m gonna find it. And so that was one of them, but it was also and I remember how many conversations you and I would have. And the first thing you would ask is, are you drinking enough water?

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
Are you getting enough sleep? Are you staying away from alcohol? Those were the 3 biggies, and they were always good reminders of self care self care self care and knowing that you were worth it.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. You’re a big proponent of that. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:
And it’s it’s, you know, things like that, even though we hear it, we know it, those are always the things that are easy to do, but so much easier not to do. Right. You know, it’s like, you know, stretching, I say to to to my clients and my members all the time, you know, when people are complaining about, well, this is sore.

Catherine Fair:
If I

Wendy Dodds:
had a penny for every time somebody said my hips, my knees, my shoulders, all of this thing, you know, are you stretching?

Catherine Fair:
Well, you

Wendy Dodds:
know, easy to do, but easier not to do. So the you know, those things like drinking water, getting enough sleep, you know, are we turning our phones off early enough to actually go to bed? What are we, you know, are we drinking? So much easier to just put it out of sight and and instead of actually focusing on the on the small things.

Catherine Fair:
Mhmm. Yeah. The other thing to remember too is that it’s it like, especially the time with the psychiatrist in Toronto, it was hard, hard, hard.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
But there were just because it’s hard doesn’t mean it can’t be beautiful. Mhmm. Like, I can’t I can’t think of anything I’m more proud of

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Than that time I spent there. And, you know, we we had a horrific situation with my family where my nephew disappeared for 2 weeks, and we searched for him. We had search parties going every day all over Toronto. There were posters up everywhere. And on the Saturday, unfortunately, he showed up, or we found him. And on the Monday, a a gal who had gone to school with him had posted that she was at the subway on Monday morning standing there with everybody else, and all the posts still had the missing person’s alert. And she said she started crying, and she walked up to the post, and she, like, reverently removed the post very, very carefully. And she turned, and she looked over, and somebody was at each of the other posts doing the same thing and across Right.

Catherine Fair:
On the other subway platform doing the same thing. And it was this moment of a city the size of Toronto, complete strangers coming together over this

Rob Dale:
Wow.

Catherine Fair:
Realization. And I remember being so struck by that. In fact, I put it in the eulogy, and she came up to me afterwards, and she and she thanked me for, I mean, talking about it. But for me, it was that moment of feeling this massive sense of community Mhmm. And support, and I’m not alone. Yeah.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
And it was one of the single most beautiful moments of my life to visualize what she had done, right, where where she was, not me. Right. But visualize what she had experienced. And you can have terrible, terrible things happen to you. Like my mother dying, I have a plaque that says, in search of my mother’s garden, I found my own.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
And to this day, I tear up when I

Rob Dale:
see it.

Catherine Fair:
It still means the world to me. And those are beautiful, beautiful things that you can take with you. Yeah. So did it suck? Absolutely. Yeah. Did would I wish this on anybody? No.

Rob Dale:
Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
Would I do it any differently? I’m not sure I would.

Wendy Dodds:
Yeah. It’s kind of what crafts us as, you know, all that it’s part of the journey. You know? Yeah. Our our footsteps and our footprints are so different, as we create our own journey. But then when we look back at all of the lessons and how they have formed us over the years and created, you know, uniquely who we are as humans, I just I love how you shared that, you know, just having that as part of the journey.

Rob Dale:
I love that language and I’m gonna steal it. I’m gonna make it my own, is the notion of, it can be hard and can be beautiful. And the idea, we often think of hard as bad, Mhmm. Right? Hard, oh, but it’s really hard and we use it as a negative and it, yeah, it can be hard and it can also be very beautiful. And and I do think of that. I think of the experiences as as as all of us have gone through those hard moments, and as you begin to, you know, whatever you experience out of that, the beauty of it for sure, absolutely. I think that’s, that’s gold. That’s such a great line and great phrase, and, and yeah, I’m gonna have to take that one and steal it.

Rob Dale:
Well yeah. Go ahead. Submit.

Catherine Fair:
The word terrible

Rob Dale:
You’re right.

Catherine Fair:
Its origins Mhmm. Isn’t negative. It means awesome. Yeah. Like awe inspiring.

Rob Dale:
I love that. Yeah.

Catherine Fair:
And and it’s used in the Bible.

Rob Dale:
Look at you.

Catherine Fair:
Well, I know. Look at me.

Rob Dale:
Talking about what the Bible says.

Catherine Fair:
It it and in the Bible, they they use the word terrible as a positive, not, like, as an awesome thing, not a terrible thing. And so that’s what I thought of Yeah. All through Shane’s disappearance.

Rob Dale:
Yeah. Absolutely. Listen. We’re almost out of time here. This is these conversations are always so wonderful. We like to ask people when they come on the show. We always have kind of a a closing question that we wanna hear from and and and for you. So what is living richly mean to you?

Catherine Fair:
Living richly, it’s so tied into curiosity, being curious. I have never been bored in my life, like, ever. I’ve never had a bored moment in my life, and I attribute that to I’m always curious. There’s always something else to do or learn or read or ask or look at or look closer at. So I I to me, curiosity is paramount to living richly.

Rob Dale:
Right.

Catherine Fair:
Because when you stop being curious, that’s when you get stuck. That’s when you get depressed. Mhmm. That’s when you lose hope. That’s when the future looks bleak. So, yeah, curiosity.

Rob Dale:
Absolutely. I love that. I love that. I love the notion of wonder as well that comes into that, right, to to be in wonder of things. How could people if you wanna reach out to you, what people wanna connect to you? What’s the best way? We’re gonna put all the links in the show notes for your LinkedIn and your email and website. There’s

Catherine Fair:
And I’d love to hear from you if you have any comments, if you’re going through any of what, pardon me, any of what I went through, please don’t do it alone. Yeah. Please, please, please don’t do it alone. Reach out to me. You can go through the Rhapsody website. My email is there. And any comments you have about today, I’d love to

Rob Dale:
hear them. Yeah. And, of course, we encourage you to do exactly that. We always want you to to like, to share, to add your comments. If you, if you or someone you know has maybe worked through and dealing with some of the same things that Catherine has shared, what a great opportunity, a gift you can do for them is to just share the episode with them and let them know about it and and introduce them to the, to the podcast and all that we’re doing. I wanna encourage you to check out our website, living richly dot me. You will see, some information there around our 15 day challenge, that we’re developing as well as links to our book group. It’s a great place to build community.

Rob Dale:
Catherine mentioned a couple of times about the notion of not doing this alone and I really do believe, that there is a community of people who are ready to take this journey with you and you can find that, many of them on our Facebook page. So I encourage you to do that as well. Thank you so much, Catherine, for being a part of this, story today and this journey. Thank you all for taking the time to listen, and we look forward to having you back again next week.

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