In this enlightening episode of the Living Richly Podcast, hosts Rob and Eric welcome Jesse White, a business leader, entrepreneur, and coaching client. Jesse delves deep into his transformative journey, highlighting a pivotal “eureka” moment that reshaped his path. He shares the profound impact of childhood mentors and the core values instilled in him, which later became his guiding light personally and professionally.
From early struggles to leadership growth, Jesse’s narrative is a testament to the power of aligning with your core values to overcome burnout, embrace your epic story, and lead a purpose-driven life. His insights on continuous learning, seeking help, and self-awareness offer invaluable lessons. Tune in to discover how to leverage your core values for a life of impact and fulfillment.
Show Notes for Episode 71
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Episode 71 Transcript
From Burnout to Breakthrough – A Core Values Revolution with Jesse White
Jesse White:
I did go through, but, you know, a spell of burnout as well. So I didn’t ask for help soon enough is that I didn’t know what my, you know, limits or boundaries were. And then I ended up taking, you know, too much on, hey, does this fit with my purpose and values? It didn’t really map there, there anymore, and that’s really what triggered, hey, I need a I I need a change here. So I gotta be able to take a step back and, you know, control my own destiny a little more.
Rob Dale:
Hey. Welcome to the Live in Rich Leaf podcast. It’s so great to have you here with us again today. We’ve got a a great guest with us. Jesse White is a young entrepreneur entrepreneur who has absolutely gone through more, ups and downs and journeys, than maybe some of the most senior, entrepreneurs that we’ve had on the show. And and it’s so great to have you with us here today. So welcome, Jesse. Good to have you with us on the show today.
Jesse White:
Thanks for thanks for having me here today.
Rob Dale:
We’re gonna dive right in. Yeah. Let’s just dive right in today and talk about the notion of, we often hear success, you know, kind of the the idea that it’s, journey to success is this straight line. Not for you. Right? It’s been this kinda ebbs and flows and all these ups and downs. And maybe talk about right out of the gate, what was one of those big moments for you? Right.
Jesse White:
So I think, one thing that really helps, you know, shape my career career in my path was my first tech job. You know? Funny enough. That really helped, you know, set everything kinda in in line in line for me. And whenever that you know, to give some context from where I was there at the time, I had just moved to Montreal. I had dropped out of university here in Ottawa. I just moved there looking for a change. I was, you know, early twenties. I was broke.
Jesse White:
I’d started off, you know, trying to sell, credit cards at the bank. You know, that wasn’t that wasn’t for me, and then, you know, I went, you know, looking for looking for another job. So funny enough, I found this one on Craigslist. They had an ad up looking for a tech support engineer, and there was a little note in the Craigslist ad as well that said, if you know how to get all 3 flutes in Super Mario 3, then then we wanna talk to you. And and so
Eric Deschamps:
And that’s a skill set you possess.
Jesse White:
And that’s a skill set I possess. So so that ad really did it and spoke to me, and then I ended up, you know, joining that organization. And those that I know, that really set me on the the path or journey that, that I’ve been on there so far.
Eric Deschamps:
So kids, if you’re listening, video gaming can lead you to great success. Yeah. I I
Rob Dale:
I thought you were gonna explain to the kids what Craigslist is.
Eric Deschamps:
And Super Mario. Although the kids are that’s still a pretty current thing.
Rob Dale:
Yeah. Super Mario. I think they’ve got that one. So we’re gonna get into kind of the how we met and the the you really were leading a significant organization and how you stepped away from that. We’re gonna get into all of that kind of stuff. But maybe let’s go way back to the beginning, and some of those figures in your childhood that shaped you kind of created the the entrepreneur that we see in front of us today.
Jesse White:
Right. So, of course, you know, family members had a great impact, you know, particularly grandfather around work ethic, there. But maybe I’ll share one that’s a bit, like, less common and, you know, more unheard of. Really had this this, figure in my life early on. It was my friend’s father. So I think he was, worked as a database administrator or programmer, and what would happen is, you know, give some kind of probably about, like, you know, 8, 9, 10 or so at the time. We’d go over to their place. They had a bunch of computers and old parts there in the basement, and what he’d do is, you know, give us, like, these little challenges to do.
Jesse White:
Mhmm. And if we were to complete them, he’d give us a couple dollars, and we’d love that because then we’d take the money, take our bikes to the corner store, and buy candy, and just hang out for the afternoon. So he’d give us these little bits, and then they gradually got more and more complicated over time and, you know, longer, etcetera. But, that really what I didn’t realize at the time is that we were we were learning. So I was really learning all the ins and outs, and they had all the parts and the equipment there. And you know, we’re excited to do it because we get money and we’d be able to go by again. But that really helped instill those skills and, you know, put that that bugging me to to learn about, you know, IT and computers there early on. So, so my friend’s father, you know, Patrick there, he he had a great great impact on my life and, you know, who who I who I became.
Jesse White:
I lost, you know, touch with them. Unfortunately, you know, things shifted and we drifted apart.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah.
Jesse White:
But, nonetheless, he still remains a significant figure that helped, you know, shape.
Eric Deschamps:
I love that. Amazing.
Rob Dale:
Yeah. I was gonna say, and what he doesn’t know is that what Patrick would do is take whatever job he had and then bring it to work, and he’d get, you know, he’d get a $10,000 bonus. Right. And they’d be like, wow. You figured that out. Here, do this one. Yeah.
Eric Deschamps:
Right. Right. He he paid, like, pennies on the dollar. Right? Right.
Jesse White:
And we had no idea how it’s done.
Rob Dale:
No. We’re not gonna destroy Patrick’s reputation.
Eric Deschamps:
No. Absolutely. A lot of what we talk about on the show, of course, is, living according to your values. Like, showing up as your authentic self. And part of that is often going into our past and figuring out what are the things that have been important to me over time. And and you talk about even a significant influence that led you to, the industry or the the world that you would end up playing in, as an adult. What are some of the significant values lessons from early on that you’re still that are still guiding you today in your life and in your business?
Jesse White:
Right. So one of my core values is curiosity. So being curious, always being curious. And It’s one of mine as well. It’s one
Eric Deschamps:
of mine as well.
Jesse White:
So the the mine are the 3 c’s. We can go into them a bit later. But just focusing on q. I have 4 c’s. Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, I got the 40 we’re gonna compare notes today. So, you know, early on in my childhood, we moved around a lot as a kid. So every year or 2, we’re moving all around Ottawa here.
Jesse White:
But, nonetheless, as a kid, just moving neighborhoods, regions, you still have to go to a new school, meet new people, etcetera. Right? Kinda reestablish yourself. So that happened to me fairly frequently as a kid. I think by the age of 13, I’d moved, like, 13 times or something like that. So it was pretty, you know, pretty significant. But so that meant I always had to make do friends, reintroduce myself through new environments, etcetera. So I think that really helped, you know, kind of shaped that curiosity in me and, you know, being able to to go and, you know, meet new people and discover new environments and so forth. And I think that, though, I know, again, had a big impact on who I’ve become and maybe more comfortable in doing that and approaching people and, you know, having those initial conversations there as well.
Jesse White:
Yeah. So I think, you know, the fact that I’ve moved around a lot, you know, that I think somewhat had a it was difficult at the time, but overall, I think had a maybe, you know, positive impact later and, you know, again, shaping, you know, who I am and that that curiosity.
Rob Dale:
You and I have that in in common. I think I, figured it out one time that I had moved. By the time I was 17, I think I had moved, like, 16 times. I’d gone to, like, 8 different school. Like, people reflect back to me. I don’t know what it was. Yeah. There was 1 year where we stayed Just stayed flat.
Rob Dale:
Or something
Jesse White:
like that.
Rob Dale:
But there were times where we moved more than once in a year.
Jesse White:
And Yeah.
Rob Dale:
And, yeah, almost half the schools in Ottawa I feel like I’ve gone to, at some point in my childhood. And so you you do certainly there’s there’s some pros and cons to that. Right? I mean, the the ability to connect and engage with people or I hear people that talk about their childhood friends. And for me, I was, like, I was constantly moving. You never experienced any of that. There was an upheaval to it.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. But the ability to to look even at, things in our past.
Rob Dale:
Right.
Eric Deschamps:
Whether it’s, like, moving like, you described moving, what, 13 times by the age of 13.
Jesse White:
Yep.
Eric Deschamps:
And that’s that can be tough when you’re you’re that age because your friends are everything and you’re constantly reorient. But the ability to look back later on and see the good that came out of it, to to process if there’s the need to process some of the, the the the the the shit that sometimes accumulates in our hearts right over time. But the ability to look back and say, but this helped me. It created this curiosity in me that has guided me in my business and in my life, and part of it came out of something, less desirable and more difficult. Right?
Jesse White:
Yeah. Yeah. For sure. And then I was lucky enough. Again, I said by the age of 13, after that, things kinda, you know, stabilized, and then I was able to stay in the same go to the same high school. And I think a a lot of my, you know, friends now are still there from high school. So, luckily, I had, you know, stability at least there Yeah. In high school, which was, I think, critical critical point where I was able to form some of those long lasting friendships.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. It’s
Rob Dale:
amazing. You mentioned curiosity as being one of your core values. And when you and I met, you had, you reached out. You were you you recognized, you you were you were working as a VP. You were part of a large organization, that had just kind of been taken over. Had it been taken over when we first met?
Jesse White:
So it was a it was a small organization that had just got acquired.
Rob Dale:
And we’re
Jesse White:
in this phase of, you know, kinda rapid growth there, and it was not long after that that I that I
Rob Dale:
reached out. And you reached out with a desire to you you just want you wanted to grow. You wanna
Jesse White:
become a
Rob Dale:
better leader. That desire, has that always been there for you? This you talk about curiosity. There’s always been this I wanna grow. I wanna understand. I wanna learn. Is that been just kind of innate in you? And where’d that come from?
Jesse White:
Yeah. I think that, you know, that has been innate. It may again, may have helped the people that, you know, surrounded me early on help, like, create that Create that. Yeah. Create that there as well. And then, you know, when, we when we met initially, I realized, you know, hey. Things are changing here. I really need to level up.
Jesse White:
Right? And, you know, I need to to learn more and, you know, maybe some of the the the softer skills there as well, not just on the the technical side, you know, running a larger organization. There there’s a lot more to it, a lot more people, a lot of different characters, a lot more expectations to manage. And I realized is there that, you know, I again, I needed help. I need to spend time on improving myself to be a a a better leader there.
Rob Dale:
Yeah. Yeah. He cringed the first time I said to him, you know people have feelings.
Jesse White:
I was like,
Rob Dale:
lots of feelings. Right? People who work for me have feelings?
Eric Deschamps:
You’re kidding.
Rob Dale:
Right? Like, this can’t be
Jesse White:
a thing. This can’t be a thing. Yeah.
Rob Dale:
No. It wasn’t quite quite
Jesse White:
that. Maybe.
Eric Deschamps:
Maybe not too far from the truth.
Rob Dale:
But I will say this. Like, when when we met and I’ve said this to you. It’s this is no surprise. I’ve said this to you a number of times. I and again, we we coach a lot of different people at Rhapsody. Any, that I have ever worked with who had that desire to learn and grow. I would mention a book. You had it ordered probably before the call was done kinda thing.
Rob Dale:
Like, it was and was always consuming, always learning, always growing. So you’re in an organization that has been acquired, that is suddenly the whole kind of culture and DNA of it is shifting. And here you are, this really rising star, growing and learning and and developing, And all of a sudden, the the pegs not it’s not fitting. Right? You’re not fitting, it was what is it? The round, you know
Eric Deschamps:
Square peg and round bolt? That thing. Fuck. Wow.
Rob Dale:
It’s a new way. That’s a new say.
Eric Deschamps:
It’s a new say. It’s, it’s brand new. I think I think it’s it’s brand new. Trending on TikTok
Jesse White:
Right now?
Rob Dale:
It’s a TikTok thing. You knew what I was going at. Uh-huh. But that you started
Eric Deschamps:
Our audience didn’t, but that’s okay.
Rob Dale:
Right? You started talk about that a little bit, about growing when you’re around people who maybe aren’t growing at the same level. We’re not gonna say whether they were growing or not, but there was a difference.
Jesse White:
Between, yeah. I think, you know, looking again, looking at myself there, I realized that I had to I had to grow. I had to change expectations. We’re changing. The environment was changing there as well. You’re right. And not maybe everyone was following at the the the same pace there, and and that that’s okay. Right? They had different, you know, roles, responsibilities.
Jesse White:
They had different places in their life there as well. You know, but I think it was also hard at times when, you know, again, especially with, I’d say, with with peers, right, in leadership, if they’re not growing at the same, you know, level or pace there as well, then that makes it, you know, difficult to to manage the Yeah. Manage and lead the organization. You know, that said, we’re, we had a we’re part of a larger organization. We had, you know, some, lot lots of support there as well from, from others, but, you know, it was it wasn’t always easy. And that’s what really led me to, you know, reach out and have to, know, try to develop myself more.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Yeah. And it’s it’s amazing how, again, our context, so many of the leaders I talk to and then work with, will talk about what got them here won’t get them there. In other words, their skill set, their experience, their knowledge gets them to a certain level. But then to to like, they’re going to another level. I I we use the phrase, new levels, new devils. Like, it’s new challenges, new opportunities that really do call for if you wanna keep moving forward, they they like, evolution becomes necessary, becomes a a non like, an absolute essential ingredient.
Jesse White:
Yeah. You have to, like, reinvent yourself. And I think it’s it’s hard to do that, you know, by yourself. Right? Despite and so I think that’s what to go externally and lead on coaches, lead on mentors, you know, learn from other experience really on the, like, outside of the organization that you’re in so they can give yet another perspective. And if you’re ready to listen to their feedback and really take that in, then I think that can really help you propel start.
Rob Dale:
Every entrepreneur we’ve had on the show has talked about, growing in their business knowledge and their business understanding, but also in that personal development, really starting to get, you know, really what the Living Richly message is. It’s about living your best life, really getting true to who you are. And we did a lot of that work. You talk about your values. Right? We we helped kind of define what those were and maybe share what those are. But we defined what those were. We started to divine your own, develop your own personal mission statement and some of those things. Right? Talk about how that how that played out, just growing and learning this stuff, but also you’re you’re hiring, like, at a crazy rate at one point, trying to manage and balance those two things.
Jesse White:
Right. So I think there is, you know, on one point, trying to learn and discover one’s one’s self. Right? And really what’s important to you and, you know, who you are and so forth. There’s that that that’s happening and that’s there’s evermore, let’s say, like, you know, pressure on that there as well. And, you know, having to speak in front of, you know, now not, you know, tens of people, but maybe hundreds of people. Wow. And then, sorry. What’s the second part?
Rob Dale:
Well, just in then you’ve got all the growth happening Oh, right. And so how are you doing your own personal who you are, but also now managing, like I say, we 8 to 8 I’m trying to remember what the numbers were. Help me out with what the growth
Jesse White:
that you had at. Largest,
Rob Dale:
Your your team.
Jesse White:
My team had under me with, you know, like, the managers I manage. We had about 50, 55 people there across, you know, Canada, the US, and Europe as well. Yeah.
Rob Dale:
Wow. Within a short time period, you brought them on.
Jesse White:
Right. So prior to that, we’re I had about, like, 5 or so. Right? So so that’s the next factor. Yeah. The next factor. Yeah. The next factor. Me now.
Jesse White:
And then, you know, everything, everything really changes. I found, like, you’re really a lot more, you know, disconnected from the work right there. So it’s it’s harder. You have to find different ways to to lead. That was, you know, a difficult transition there for me as well-being less, you know, hands on and, you know, finding other ways. And then, yeah, having to also work to empower people as well and, you know, give these teams enough, you know, information and context and empower so that they can go off and do their own thing without having to come back, you know, all the time there as well. And how to structure all this and organize it in different Right. Quite the, you know, it was quite the challenge as well there.
Jesse White:
Again, having and then being the first time going through that, you know, you’re gonna make mistakes, and there’s a lot of learning to do. So that’s why, you know, pull in as much information as you can and make the best decisions, and then, also work to really communicate what your what your plans are and thoughts are to have to let others weigh in as much as possible.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Absolutely. Getting the support you need and the guidance you need and having all those things in place is so critical. Right? I think a lot of folks don’t, they they struggle to take leaps like that, and they play it safe for fear of making a mistake, for fear of, not getting it right. Right. And so they they stay comfortable. But it sounds like you’ve, throughout your career, have welcomed those seasons, and even have sought them out to keep growing, to keep evolving, and to keep, and and reach you know, we talk about how, we’re doing a series on, some of the, archetypes or the mindsets that really hold men back. And one of them is we don’t ask for directions.
Eric Deschamps:
Right? We don’t typically ask for help, but reaching out for help is actually a great sign of courage and strength. Right? And you’ve done that regularly throughout your life.
Jesse White:
Yeah. I guess not not always, though. There’s been ups and downs there as well. And, you know, I did go, part of that growth. I did go through, you know, a spell of burnout there as well. So what had happened was I didn’t, exactly, I made that mistake because I didn’t ask for help soon enough is that I didn’t know what my, you know, limits or or boundaries were, and then I ended up taking, you know, too much on.
Rob Dale:
Mhmm.
Jesse White:
And, again, not asking not asking for help, and that, ultimately led me to, you know, led me to a burnout and have to really take a step back and reevaluate things. And it was actually not long after that that I reached out to, reached out to Rob realizing I gotta I gotta change change something here. But, you know, there when and on the burnout, like, my wife was telling me about it for, like, I think, like, a year before. She’s like, hey. Watch out. You know? Things are changing here, and I I wasn’t listening.
Eric Deschamps:
Right.
Jesse White:
Right. So, like, yeah, I wasn’t listening. She was telling me the the whole time. It wasn’t till one day where I was driving back home from the office, you know, there down down March Road, and I just started crying uncontrollably. Wow. And I couldn’t and I was like, something’s wrong here.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. Wait a second.
Rob Dale:
Yeah. And I
Jesse White:
was like, it’s a What
Rob Dale:
bad path? Alright.
Jesse White:
Right. And there wasn’t anything specific that day or any event. It was just an accumulation of things. And then, you know, crying is okay. Right? But, like, it’s just I I couldn’t tie it to anything specifically, and it was just that big accumulation, that snowball that was just, you know, kinda take taking over. So I realized I had to take a step back and, you know, reinvent myself a little to be able to keep growing.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. And I mean, burnout is something that I’m all too familiar with. I’ve experienced it, in my life a number of times. I I I say to folks and you correct me every time, but I still think on certain things, I’m a bit of a slow learner. It took me, my 3rd burnout before I really took active steps to reinvent my life, to to not find myself there, again. And I know what that was like for me. What are how did that show up for you? I mean, you talk about the moment where, you know, you’ve got your wife’s been telling you for a year, you’re probably burnt out or you’re on
Jesse White:
the edge of it, and
Eric Deschamps:
then you find yourself driving and, poof, this moment happens. A lot of leaders are dealing with burn. I don’t know how many times you get asked this, but whenever a leader asked me, the question, when do you know you’re burnt out? I’m like, you probably are. You’re asking the question. Right? But what did that season look like for you, and what were some of the strategies that you used, steps you took to get healthy again?
Jesse White:
Right. Another, you know, moment around there when I realized is, I was like, let’s do a survey online and see one of those, like, am I burnt test? Oh, no. And then and then sure enough, I ended the survey. I was like, yep. Oh, shit.
Rob Dale:
Yep. Freaked out. Yeah. And then Your phone ring.
Jesse White:
Yeah. This is a doctor.
Rob Dale:
Showed up at the front door. Yeah.
Jesse White:
So that that was another sign, but then I was like, yeah, it’s just this online survey. How how accurate it’s gonna be? Wow.
Rob Dale:
Right? So then,
Jesse White:
I guess, you know, recovering from that, I realized, k. I gotta take a step back here, really, you know, reevaluate things. So I went to Foster at the time and say, look. I need to I need to take a break here. I’m gonna need to take a few weeks off and really step back and and disconnect. I know this is, you know, there’s never a perfect time, right? You know, there’s never a perfect time, but I said I need, you know, I’ll probably need at least, you know, a few weeks, maybe a month to really disconnect and and pull back, and that’s, you know, luckily, I had the support there, and, you know, other people stepped up while I was out, and I really took that time to really disconnect and just not think about work there at all. Right. And I think that was, like, key just to clear my mind, get back to the basics.
Jesse White:
Right? You know? Yeah. How to start, you know, exercising again, you know, be like, take care of oneself, and then, like, I think that that helped. But mostly, you know, as a body, just the the it was mostly disconnecting and just freeing the mind from, you know, worrying, worrying about that.
Eric Deschamps:
From the data. And then and then, of course, you said when you came back to work, it wasn’t long after that that you reached out, for some support Yep. To, and and I think that’s I know that’s the mistake I made in in previous seasons where I experienced it is I would take the time off and I would disconnect, but then I would reenter the same context
Rob Dale:
Do the same thing.
Jesse White:
And do
Eric Deschamps:
the same thing I was doing before. There’s no change to, I always said I I said this early on in in some of the earlier episodes. I would always do just enough work, to get healthy enough to step back into the arena Right. But not enough work to change the game in the arena. And it wasn’t until I did that that, things really shifted for me. But sounds like you were you were at you you took some time to to rest and recoup Mhmm. But you fundamentally then reentered the arena and said, okay. Some shit’s gotta change here.
Jesse White:
For sure. Yeah. It wasn’t sustainable on the path I was on, so then I looked to, you know, elevate others around me, kinda change the way I I work there as well, and then look for help externally. Yeah. Right? And, you know, try to reinvent myself a little there as well.
Rob Dale:
And so then that’s what we really early on, we started to do that. Once we made the shift from as we started to get to know each other, realizing that our focus was gonna be more on you than even on the the company that your your role, your influence was definitely there. I mean, listen, you know, spoiler alert, you you really as you became more clear on who you were, your, your sphere of influence in the company went right to the grand grand poo ball. Right? The big cheese Is that what they’re called? Yeah. The the the guy that owned all of the organization.
Eric Deschamps:
Oh, he was the grand
Jesse White:
poo ba.
Rob Dale:
You you were in direct conversations and meeting the redefining yourself. Talk about what again, because we we emphasize it so much here about the importance of individuals figuring out who are they, what matters to them, what do they value, what
Jesse White:
are the
Rob Dale:
what are they about, figuring that out, and then how does that get expressed externally through work and other places? Yeah. What was that journey like, and what did you find out about yourself?
Jesse White:
Right. So if I could go, you know, further, I think a lot of the times, the big changes in my life were were related to really learning more about myself.
Rob Dale:
Mhmm.
Jesse White:
Right? And that can go even, like, a bit further back than, you know, at at the job there and being a leader. That even went back to, you know, university. I mentioned back when I was, you know, got my first tech job there in Montreal, and then, I started going to, you know, new school as well, but I wasn’t taking it I wasn’t taking it seriously. Right? Again, early twenties. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I had I had other priorities.
Rob Dale:
And then learning 3 notebook.
Jesse White:
And then so, you know, but what I I ended up being put on academic probation right back then. And then what that forced me to do is they, they had to enroll me in this one they enrolled me in this one class, I think. I still remember the code because it haunts me to this day. S e l 149, success for university learning. And it was 8 AM every Monday morning. Oh god. Couldn’t miss one class, and every class, you also had to hand in, like, a a report or, you know, you know, a a a write up on what happened there during the last week. And it was it was, you know, brutal at the time, but what they what you did in that class during the time was learn how you learn and learn your personality style Wow.
Jesse White:
And learn what, you know, interest and that’s the there was that class and then the lab, and that’s all you did. But, like, again, I was like, ah, this is silly. This is a waste of time. Right? Why am I why am I doing this? But I gotta do it if I wanna if I wanna stay here. And after that class was finished, like, my academic, like, the the success just completely shifted. I went from, you know, almost dropping out to, again, I’ll you know, like, nearly straight a’s Wow. Really in helping, you know, learn what so that was a big big shift there again in just learning about oneself. Then going back to, you know, I guess, the the the job and emerging leader and the like, I think, you know, something very, similar there as well.
Jesse White:
Right? Again, working with, you know, mentors, reaching out to other people in the industry that I know that I’ve been in similar positions there as well, working with a coach and trying to take as much of that that in as possible. What I what I didn’t do as much that I wish I had was working to to to share that more and, you know, kind of broadcast that that out and bring others along with me on that on that journey. But I I was, like, you know, just so much focused on on taking in and then applying it, less so on on the sharing side. So that’s one thing I wish I had, you know, you know, done a bit more back then, but that, again, really helped propel myself, you know, on on the rest of the journey there as a as a leader.
Eric Deschamps:
Right. And and but yet you’re sharing it today. Right? And, all of our listeners that are watching or or tuning in, via a podcast, are are able to kinda glean from glean from your knowledge, right, which is which is great. Yeah.
Rob Dale:
And we’ve talked about it. It’s one of the most powerful, you know, if if all you’re ever doing is it’s like a you’re like our lives are like a river. Right? If all we’re ever doing is taking in, eventually, the banks just overflow. We it becomes a mess and everything like that. If all we’re doing is giving out, we eventually dry up. There needs to be both that.
Eric Deschamps:
Give and take.
Rob Dale:
That yeah. Their input, what are we taking in to learn, and then how are we mentoring others, which became a big part of, you know, one of the challenges that we worked through together was you finding those people to mentor in the workplace where you could take all this stuff that you were starting to learn about yourself and bring it to them and get them doing some of that work in their lives as well. What was that like? What was it like to kind of go to some of these? Because you’re talking engineers and tech people, and and you’re going to them saying, hey. Let’s talk feelings.
Jesse White:
Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s a bit the you know, the typical engineer, you know, persona that you have in your mind, you know, that that’s real. And that’s, you know, that’s a big factor. That is out there. You know, one, I guess, one framework or tool that really, you know, helped me there was, again, using, like, disc. Right? So personality assessment. Right? The ISC, and then, you know, knowing where where you sit. And then I I try to use that tool whenever approaching, others as well.
Jesse White:
So either they had formally done the assessment in some cases or or not, but I could sort of, you know, kinda guess where they’d sit, you know, in in in that circle as well. And then what I do is, you know, kinda cater my communication style there to those individuals based on, you know, their their personalities. Again, generalizations, but it worked. Like, you know and, feedback folks were a lot more, you know, receptive in taking it, being able to open up if you just kinda catered the the the messaging or the, like, what in in different ways. And so I think that’s one thing that that really helped was, you know, not always having the same, you know, like, not always having the same style or approach, but Right. Really catering that catering that to the individual or or audience that you’re you’re speaking to. And that was, that was, that was a big help.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. And so and it’s, refreshing to hear a leader like yourself talk about the journey of self discovery, of self awareness. You know, some folks, a lot of leaders, that I know a lot of people generally, are just coasting through life. We we talk about the difference between choosing the kind of life you want versus coasting through life or deciding instead of drifting, and it sounds like you were taking charge of that, that these opportunities gave you a chance to look inside, learn more about yourself, then get curious about others. And I can see why curiosity, I I would describe myself the same way that innate curiosity, causes me to approach people more often than not and situations with an open open heart and open mind as opposed to a closed one because I’m like, I never know what I’ll find. Right? Yeah. And just because this looks like that, that may not be that at all and so remaining open. So talk talk to me about the power of curiosity because that’s I’m curious.
Jesse White:
Well, cool place.
Rob Dale:
Did you like that?
Jesse White:
That was good. So, yeah, I guess there, you know, there’s the, you know, technical curiosity and me, you know, as a hacker, really always wanting to tinker with things and, you know, discover, you know, how how they work and, you know, what makes them tick. And I’m not giving you my bank card.
Eric Deschamps:
He’s a hacker. Yeah.
Jesse White:
And so I know. Scary word. Right?
Rob Dale:
I guess.
Jesse White:
But, I mean, you know, tinker. Right? Yeah. You know, really looking to discover the not a better word. That’s what it is. We’ll come up with something. But then there’s the, I think mostly the the people side of it as well. Right? So really, like, looking to be so curious about individuals and, you know, getting them to tell, you know, their story and, you know, share what what drives them. And I think the more you’re able to learn about that, the more you can be a better coworker leader there as well.
Jesse White:
But people have these barriers up, and not everyone is ready to, you know, you know, have those conversations there early on either. So that brings up trust. Right? So you really have to, you know, build up trust with those around you before you’re able to have those those those deeper conversations. And based on the individual, you know, that may be almost instant after having a beer or Right. Right. You know, it it could take weeks or, weeks or weeks or months. Right? So, you know, I think it really was, really varied based on the the the individuals there, of course, but, you know, I can remember, you know, some engineers, were afraid to talk to me. Right? So I had I had, you know, again, been an engineer there myself, working with a small team.
Jesse White:
You know, we’re all in this together. Right? Let’s go. It didn’t matter your your title, what you’re responsible. Everyone was but and then as you grew in this larger organization, you became, you know, further away from people. Right? And then they’re like, oh, there’s this there’s the CTO. Why is he talking to me? Right. Right. That that that’s scary.
Jesse White:
One of my coworkers, code named me as, like, Negan from the market. I know that that and he’d said that that’s how people, like, you know, saw, you know, saw me in the oven, you know, coming up to them. But, really, I was just looking to like, hey. What are you doing? What are you working on right out there? Just
Rob Dale:
like Does he have a bat? Is Lucy
Jesse White:
with him? Right.
Rob Dale:
The Walking Dead. Yeah.
Jesse White:
Yeah. Yeah. For those who didn’t know. For those who didn’t know, he gets. So it was I really had to, you know, like, change how I approach people and take that into consideration. And also when, like, communicating with folks as well, I could maybe be used to just, you know, directly asking what I was looking for, but I I found myself, having to include more of the why. Like, you know, like, not like, where where’s this at? Right? I was it was with some people. That’s all.
Jesse White:
Oh, here it is. Right? But people, why is he asking? Where’s that? I just started this. Right? Well, here’s why I’m asking. Right? Right. And then that context and color then, you know, blah blah blah.
Rob Dale:
So here you are. You you’ve really come to understand who you are. You know, you’re you’re defining your values, all of this. You’re you’re really kind of having these moments. You’re growing. You’re in a successful company. You’re doing really well, you’ve got a really good salary, you’ve got, you know, wife at home, young kids, all of this kind. And we talk about it often that as we become more true to who we are
Jesse White:
Yeah.
Rob Dale:
Major shifts sometimes happen, and it’s scary as hell, and many people can’t do it. Yeah. You did it. You made that leap. You made that change. Talk about kinda that moment where you basically walked away from all the security and safety, to begin this next period of your life?
Jesse White:
Right. So one thing that really, you know, helped me in making that decision was taking a time to map out my values and purpose. Right? So, I think and and I think that may have been one of the assignments that I was putting off there with Robert. For a while. Yeah. For a while. But it’s not easy. Right? Because it’s tough.
Rob Dale:
Because it’s tough.
Jesse White:
Really hard. Yeah. It’s really hard. Yeah. And, you know, it takes a lot of time to really, you know, but but I think, you know, for me, it was important just to do it over time. It’s not something I could just sit there and and work through. Right? It took, like, weeks or months.
Eric Deschamps:
It’s not a once and done. It’s usually a sit with it for like, to your point, you sit with it for a while, and you you
Jesse White:
gotta let it perk. Right. I still find myself, you know, like, reevaluating and tweaking it there to to this day, and it’s just, you know, like, one document, one slide with, with kinda every everything there. Right? Yeah. So really taking the time to map map that out. And then with that, that gave me a tool, if you will, to reflect on, you know, the kinda current situation and say, hey, does this fit with my purpose and values? And then, again, the reasoning tool, you’re able to step back and look, you know, where is this and how does that map? And there I saw, you know, a a disconnect. It didn’t it didn’t really map there, there anymore, and that’s really what triggered, hey, I need a I I need a change here. So I gotta be able to take a step back and, you know, control my own destiny a little more.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. It’s amazing. Again, it’s, so many people are just operating on autopilot. Right? We talk about the digital zombies. We talk about people being asleep at the wheel of their own life. And when you don’t get clear on what your own values are and what your purpose is, you will live according to somebody else’s, society’s expectations, family expectations, right, job expectations. And this is why people end up very unhappy because I don’t know how many times we’ve sat in front of leaders who, are successful leaders, but they look at us and say, this is not what I signed up for. Like, somehow they ended up in this place.
Eric Deschamps:
And even though it has all the trappings of success and all the appearances of success, they’re just not happy themselves because it doesn’t fit. It’s not who they are. Yep. So the work that you did. Right? So so tell me. I’m curious. Now I mean, we we’ve held off this long. Well, 1, I we only have 1.
Eric Deschamps:
I wanna hear the other 2 c. So what do you mind sharing your 3 values?
Jesse White:
Of course. So curiosity, of course. The first, we’ve we’ve talked about that one. Second would be candor. Right? So I really find it being, you know, important to be, you know, open, direct, honest, and, you know, people are, you know, able to receive that as well if they feel that you have their best interest at heart there as well. Right? It makes it a lot easier to receive. I think Radical Candor is a whole book book about that, right, can relate to that.
Eric Deschamps:
Great book.
Jesse White:
You know, very much. So curiosity, candor, and the last one would be clarity. Right? So there are roles in, you know, communication, really being able to clear and concise. You know, that way everyone can, you know, hop along and then join the journey there together. So, you know, curiosity, candor, clarity.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I love that. And your can you is there a recent, perhaps either a a decision you made in your personal life or, or a major decision you made in the business, that were where these values were like your your compass in a significant way? So there’s one that’ll be, one policy that I like to implement here in the
Jesse White:
new business that haven’t yet, to be clear, since we’re just getting off
Rob Dale:
the getting off the ground here. That’s right.
Jesse White:
But, you know, going to the point of, you know, I think, like, curiosity and candor, one thing we’d like to do is really make a point of celebrating failures as much as successes. Right. Right? So, you know, taking a time, let’s you know, biweekly, monthly during those, you know, big team meetings and, you know, here’s what we did that worked. Here’s what we did that didn’t, but here’s what we learned from it. Right? And I think that being able to talk about what didn’t work makes everyone a bit more comfortable with, you know, like, trying new things and going out there. It’s not, afraid as well and try to sweep that on the rug and say everything’s fine here. Right. Because the the worst thing you want as a, again, senior leader in New York, you know everything all this stuff’s happening, and you know everything is not going well.
Jesse White:
Right? But if you walk in the room and then everyone says, you know, hey. Yeah. Everything’s fine. We got this under control. You know that’s total bullshit. Right?
Eric Deschamps:
You know Sonic the
Jesse White:
Lion. Yeah. Yeah. Right? So I really wanna be able to work on creating that, you know, that that that culture and, being able to celebrate failures as much as as much as successes and embracing that in the the company’s DNA.
Eric Deschamps:
Yeah. I love that. I I’m I’m super curious about, you know, so you you you do this work of clarifying your values, getting clear on your sense of purpose. And and for most people, as we’ve talked about when they do that, they often certain things don’t quite fit. Like, they now you’ve got the clarity, right, on who you are and what matters most to you. You start to go through this process of this isn’t quite working for me anymore. But you go on and launch your own your own business, and that had to come with some feelings and some ups and downs and some some fear. Talk to talk to us about that.
Eric Deschamps:
Like, aligning your life to your values where it really matters and making a pretty significant leap to do so.
Jesse White:
Yeah. I mean, I’ll be honest. It was scary as hell. Right.
Eric Deschamps:
Right. Yeah.
Jesse White:
Right? So you’re going from, you know, you know, something, you know, fairly comfortable that’s known to something that’s completely, you know, unknown. So there, to be when I step back from, you know, the the the prior venture there, I I didn’t have anything lined up there yet. I just know I wanted to change, but it wasn’t too sure there what. So I ended up, you know, taking the taking the time off, you know, enjoying my, my summer a little bit. We had our 3rd child that was on the way there as well. So I, you know, had the the chance to help be there with my wife and, you know, be be around there, those first few months as well, so so that was awesome. And then yeah. So I didn’t I didn’t have it all figured out when I did it, but I knew I needed a change.
Jesse White:
So then I started, you know, looking and thinking out what’s what’s next. I had some ideas on, you know, what I could do or start myself and, you know, starting, you know, expand those a little bit. Also had, you know, looking at the the job market and seeing what’s out there. But then I didn’t wanna kinda be be pulled in to that that same world or that same, you know, kind of trap there there as well. So I knew I wanted to start my final thing, but I just just, it was difficult to get everything to line up because then you gotta what about, you know, funding and money? And do I bootstrap this? Or, you know, how do I go? And I can’t do this alone. I need to find a a partner there as well. So, luckily, I ended up, you know, seeing again, the this posting, that they were looking for, you know, cofounder, CTO for this new this new venture, and this was a company coming out of, you know, venture studio. So their thing is is that they, you know, they have ideas, and then they help, you know, start companies.
Jesse White:
And once it gets to a certain point, they find founders to come in and then be able to take it take it the rest of the way. So I saw this, you know, this particular opportunity. It spoke to, you know, my my skill set there as well. I saw how I could apply it, and then I decided, hey. You know, let’s let’s go ahead and do this. And luckily, everything else, you know, fell into place there afterwards. That said, even the journey so far hasn’t been, you know, smooth. Right? There’s entrepreneurship.
Jesse White:
There’s, you know, ups and downs. And, you know, daily, there could be all these, you know, great things that happen, but then all these others as well. And it’s it’s been been quite the ride, but it’s been it’s been fun, though. And I say, like, you know, I finished the day, and I’m still energized. Wow. Whereas, prior, I’d finished the day, and I was drained. Yeah. I’d come you know? That was so I see the difference there already.
Rob Dale:
We often talk about the the ports of community. We we both are very fortunate to have wonderful partners who support us in our journeys. And, it must have been you talk about Kandor being to go home and to be able to say to your pregnant wife, I’m leaving this, you know, very, you know, good job, safe job, and I don’t know what’s next.
Jesse White:
Yeah.
Rob Dale:
And then, hey. I figured out what’s next. I’m gonna start my own company. Harold guarantees. That that that requires Pandora.
Jesse White:
Yeah.
Rob Dale:
It also requires Some clarity. And some clarity. And some courage. Yeah. Yeah. All of the above. There you go. Yeah.
Rob Dale:
Right? That must have been an interesting conversation. And then to have her support through this.
Jesse White:
Yeah. She’s been great. You know, really, really supportive, you know, throughout the whole process, you know, and, and and helping me out through this journey. Right? I’ll guess, you know, she’s there, supporting me on a lot of these big decisions there behind the scenes or even, you know, struggles that I have at Yeah. Working day to day there as well. That extra, you know, being able to lean on her or get her input is really, you know, invaluable. So great to have her there by my side. But, you know, in each of these cases, we, you know, we had those conversations and, you know, thought of it, you know, and she was there throughout the process of, you know, leaving me there.
Jesse White:
She could see I was unhappy. So, you know, again, it helped me make and, you know, cement that decision as well. And then for the entrepreneurship and the new gig, I was like, you know, I was like, we are we are we doing this? Not not am I doing this, but are are we doing this? Because, you know, you’ll be along for this as well. That’ll mean, you know, like, highs and lows and, you know, travel and, you know, who knows where this will will take us, but it’s been great. She’s been supportive and, you know, awesome.
Eric Deschamps:
That’s amazing. Thank you. I I love the fact that, like, again, we talk about, I’m sure as you were weighing your options during that time and and and now leaning into, I might just go join this the this other company in the world of entrepreneurship and and, and and start the gig that you’re currently on. There you consider, well, there’s a price I’m gonna have to pay for this. One of the prices is the uncertainty. It’s new. It’s and I think a lot of times, that’s what scares people off. Mhmm.
Eric Deschamps:
They’re not happy where they are now, but they’re not they they look at the risks involved of making a shift and forget the price they’re paying for not making the shift. Right? The they’re paying a price right now, and which is usually disillusionment, unhappiness, unsettledness, kind of living ho and Stress. But we forget all of that when we start looking at perhaps, well, a change is gonna require discomfort and, me learning new things and experiencing things I haven’t experienced before. But you you took that leap, and it’s it seems to be paying off for you.
Jesse White:
Yeah. So so far so good. I think yeah. You
Rob Dale:
know, I think Few months in, you
Jesse White:
know, few months in the you know, again, the journey is just, you know, beginning here. Right? Then this is you know, whenever you do something like this, you tend to you know, there’s, you can find to do it for years, right, ahead. So it’s Yeah. Again, it’s it’s it’s scary. It still is some days, you know, all the grief, but it’s it’s exciting and, you know, energizing there as well. So I’m I’m I I wouldn’t I wouldn’t change a thing.
Rob Dale:
And it’s a different type of, like, maybe layman’s terms, real simple. What is the new venture?
Jesse White:
Yeah. So new venture is called Relion, and there we help, connect the dots to keep EV chargers charging. So, big problem in the industry there today where statistics show that, you know, 1 in 5 charging sessions don’t work. So imagine that you’re driving your, you know, new EV around, you know, it’s running low on battery, need to go fuel up, you show up, and then it doesn’t you plug in and it doesn’t work. Right? And then it that’s not not good. Right? So, then you have to find the next station. You know, maybe there’s one there at the site as well or maybe it’s somewhere else, but now your battery is getting lower and lower. Right? So, you know, they don’t work for a variety of reasons.
Jesse White:
Right? Like, you know, the connectors, the software, the services there behind them, etcetera. So and there’s gonna be a a lot more of them, you know, deployed, in in the world as EV adoption grows. Right? So big problem is tackling not only how do we deploy them, but how do we maintain and make sure they keep up and running and that people have a good experience with them after the fact. Mhmm. So that’s what Reliant is gonna be focusing on.
Rob Dale:
And I love it. It’s it’s such a creative different I I when you first shared it with me, my first thought was I would never have thought that that was a
Eric Deschamps:
A problem.
Rob Dale:
Yeah. And yet it makes sense. And you and I think the way you put it to me was imagine if if every 4th or 5th gas station wasn’t working, and with the amount of cars that rely on gasoline. Right? The lineups and that. And it was interesting because I think soon after we had the conversation, I share there an article was in one of our local papers here or local news about, here in in in Ottawa, how many of these stations are are not working at any given time. And I was like, wow. Look. It’s they’re actually telling the story that you’re talking about right here in the news.
Jesse White:
So Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It’s a big big big problem, and that’s why we’re looking, we’re looking to to tackle that.
Rob Dale:
Yeah. We’re we’re kinda wrapping up, but I am curious because so what are you learning now about yourself now in this new you know, you’ve kind of you’ve done those initial work. You I know you said you already you continue to tweak them. What are you learning about yourself now as you’re now an entrepreneur?
Jesse White:
So now I’m realizing more, like, that to to to do the things having to do the things that I don’t like as much. So, like, you know, there, again, as a, you know, less, you know, smaller organization and an entrepreneur, like, there’s less people to to lean to lean on, right, or less work with you. So you end up having to wear all these hats, do all these things, and then there’s certain things things that I do that, you know, give me energy and others that, you know, pull my energy, you know, away. So those are coming to light a lot more and then I’m finding, so I’m having to find but that said, you know, still happy to to do them and work through them. It’s not because they take more energy that, you know, I’m not I’m not gonna do them, but I’m having to find, like, do techniques or ways to Right. You know, kinda, kinda get through that there as well. You know, tune them bit by bit and, you know, stay organized there as well. So that’s, I’d say that’s one thing that I’m, like, continuously learning about my myself as where as well is what those are and then how to how to deal with them and and tackle them as well.
Eric Deschamps:
I think that’s great. Again, it’s it just speaks to your growing self awareness or ongoing self awareness. You you haven’t cracked the code on all that stuff yet, but you’re present to it. You’re paying attention. You know what draws your energy. You know what gives you energy. And and how do I how do I sort this out? And we we it’s even part of our, the model, the quadrant model that emerged out of living richly, emerged out of my journey is get clear on what makes you happy, what fills your cup, what doesn’t, and figure out a way. You’re never gonna be able to stop doing all this stuff over here necessarily.
Eric Deschamps:
But can you turn the volume up on what you like to do that gives you energy and turn even if you can do a little bit of this. Right? Turn the volume up on 1 down on the other. Well, you’re gonna experience more more happiness and more fulfillment and more joy in your life. This has been such a great conversation, Jesse, about, values based living. Again, I I just commend you for doing the work. And and again, it’s it’s not just about discovering your values. It’s figuring out then how do I live into them more intentionally. But I’ve got one last question for you.
Eric Deschamps:
If there was a huge billboard that millions of people could read every day, what message would you want them to see on that billboard?
Jesse White:
I’ll preface this with I learned this from Rob, but it it’s it’s true. I’d put feedback is the breakfast of champions.
Rob Dale:
Cade Blanchard class.
Jesse White:
Is the is the one I would put. Yeah. And I think take it you know, being able to receive feedback is so important, whether it be, you know, positive, negative, and being able to to to take that in, I think, is so key to, like, again, learning, right, and seeing how others see, and so that’s what I would put out there if everyone would just be able to give more feedback or be able to take in feedback, positive, negative, and again, take it take it for what it is, but just use that as another way to way to learn and, you know, be stronger, be better.
Rob Dale:
Yeah. Awesome. I I say it and I you know, you’re right. I it’s one of my favorite quotes. I say it I’ve said it to you. I say it to a lot of the people I’ve worked with. You and I had a conversation just literally in the last, week or so where you were providing some feedback to me around something. And, and you made the comment about how much you appreciate.
Rob Dale:
I because I said thanks so much for the feedback. I really appreciate it. And you were like, thanks so much for just being open to receiving it. And I and the way I phrase that now is, well, I’m a champion. And if if I’m a champion, champions
Eric Deschamps:
You didn’t say that in the moment. Champions You should have told me that.
Rob Dale:
Yeah. No. I love this. I say it to clients all the time. If you’re gonna be a champion, what are you eating for breakfast? What are you having for breakfast? If you’re a champion, you’re having for what are you having for breakfast? Feedback.
Jesse White:
Feedback.
Rob Dale:
So and and it’s a constant. It’s just this notion of, champions eat feedback for breakfast. So what’s the feedback that you’re delivering to yourself each and every day? So, this has been great. I really do appreciate it. I, you know, maybe just quickly, how can people if they wanna connect with you, they wanna reach out to you, what’s the easiest way to do that?
Jesse White:
So LinkedIn’s the easiest way. Yep. Up on there, you know, and, be able to connect and reach out to me there, Jesse White, and follow us at Relion as well and, you know, see what we’re up to. Yeah. Awesome. We’ll put all that information.
Rob Dale:
Links in the show notes as well. So, I wanna thank you so much for taking the time to be a part of the episode today to listening in. Wanna encourage you to like to and maybe there’s somebody you know that’s in a job and they’re frustrated and they’re kind of maybe this is a great episode to share as they could lean in on their values, how that might open the doors to something completely different for them. So wanna encourage you to share that with others, and we certainly always value your comment. Check out our website, at the web site, livingrichly.me. You will find, we are about to launch a 15 day challenge. So excited about this. Want you to be able to sign up so that you don’t miss when it goes live.
Rob Dale:
You can participate in that. And of course, there’s links there to our private Facebook group and all of the other stuff that we have, in the living rich nation. Thank you again for being a part of the episode, and we’ll see you again next week.
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