Breaking Free Through Forgiveness

Breaking Free Through Forgiveness

Eric Deschamps:

We tend to carry these really heavy burdens of, holding ourselves to past things that we’ve done, and how hard it can be

Wendy Dodds:

to let go. It’s so emotionally draining and exhausting when we choose to not let go or not forgive. Because I’m very good at putting things in a parking lot.

Kate Beere:

That’s sort of my pattern. And in that parking lot, it just slowly seeps into every aspect of you.

Rob Dale:

It becomes like an anchor that holds you back, And I I don’t think anyone can truly live your best life without first addressing your

Eric Deschamps:

Hi, and welcome to the Living Richly podcast. We’re so thrilled to have you join us again this week, for what is episode 52. Wow. We are a year in the book since we launched the podcast. What a journey it’s been.

Rob Dale:

It it really has been an incredible journey when you think about those kinda humbling, humble days, start, back at the farm. Trevor, of course, was a part of the, the podcast at the time and being able to record there. And we are just figuring things out, moving from that as Trev stepped out and began to focus in on some other things. And and now suddenly, it was the 2 of us, and all the focus groups were saying, yeah.

Eric Deschamps:

No. Yeah. You need some more cohosts

Eric Deschamps:

in there.

Rob Dale:

You need some other cohosts in there, and and, of course,

Wendy Dodds:

the time you found us.

Rob Dale:

And then we found you.

Eric Deschamps:

It was

Rob Dale:

just, like, didn’t know where you were, and you were just suddenly there. And,

Eric Deschamps:

a good point.

Rob Dale:

You’ve taken over the the, podcast. That’s the rumor.

Eric Deschamps:

I if there was a show right recently where that claim was made, then I’m gonna dispute it. Yeah.

Rob Dale:

I mean, it was 4 times more viewership than anything I’ve ever heard. Whatever. Whatever. And now we’re here.

Eric Deschamps:

And now we’re here.

Rob Dale:

1 year in.

Eric Deschamps:

And I’m, so excited actually about the the the subject matter of today’s show because I think it is so crucial, this notion of learning to let go of past stakes, learning to forgive yourself. Today’s show is gonna be about not forgiving others. That’s a whole other topic. I’m sure we’re gonna talk a little bit about that, But it’s more about how we tend to carry these really heavy burdens of, holding ourselves to past things that we’ve done, and how hard it can be to let go. But the the first question that’s obvious to me is why would we talk about this, in the context of living your best life? Why is it so important to learn how to let go in order to do that.

Wendy Dodds:

Yeah. I’ll just jump in. I so I think for many of us, when we don’t learn to let go, and it’s very difficult to do, and we’ll get into that after. But it starts to show up very much, mentally and emotionally, because it’s so emotionally draining and exhausting when we choose to not let go or not forgive, where then it starts to show up physically in our lives.

Eric Deschamps:

Right. Right. Right.

Kate Beere:

Right. Yeah. And that you know, we have the habit of of Well, not all of us. Some of us. I’ll speak for myself. I have the habit of parking things. I’m very good at putting things in a parking lot. That’s sort of my pattern.

Kate Beere:

And so to not to avoid the the uncomfortableness of of having an uncomfortable conversation to actually move through to get to forgiveness. So a lot of us park it. And in that parking lot, it just slowly seeps into every aspect of you and, like you said, can show up physically too because it’s just slowly draining you.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. It’s like we try to avoid it, but it’s not avoiding us.

Eric Deschamps:

We just

Eric Deschamps:

what we’re avoiding, we keep running into.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. For me, it’s it it it’s so many people exactly that they they they just pretend that their past isn’t there, that they don’t have a pass or or there weren’t all these things that went on. And and and when you do that, when you don’t take the time to look at, focus, forgive, all of those things. It becomes like an anchor that holds you back. And I I don’t think anyone can truly live your best life without first addressing your past and and what has gone on to lead you to the point of where you’re making the changes.

Eric Deschamps:

Absolutely. I think doctor Sherry would use the term of the it’s you’ve got holes in your cup. So no matter no matter how much you try to fill it with things that are meaningful, things that make you happy, You’re constantly leaking. The the other analogy I have in my mind as we’re talking about this is, like, you’re trying to sail the high seas in a boat, but the boat’s still more or to the dock. Like, it’s still tied to the dock, and you’re trying to make make progress. I think regret is something that a lot of people live with. You know, we hear people say, I don’t I don’t have any regrets, and I’m like, bullshit. Well, I think every one of us has, certain has certain events or things, decisions we’ve made or perhaps relationships we’ve been in or things that have happened, where we were at the helm, and we hold ourselves in sort of this place of limbo where we’re not forgiving ourselves for making those mistakes.

Rob Dale:

And, you know, maybe that’s the when you because it’s interesting as you said that my first thought was we we treat regret like it’s a four letter word. Right. We we treat it like it’s it is

Eric Deschamps:

It’s actually 1 It’s 6

Rob Dale:

letters wrong. It’s it’s a bunch of letters. Sad. But but we do. We treat it like it’s something I’m still doing the math on that one. We should

Eric Deschamps:

or we treat them like a

Rob Dale:

4 letter word. It’s not a 4 letter word. No. No.

Eric Deschamps:

We treat

Rob Dale:

it like it’s a 4 things. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:

I still. Linear in the show.

Rob Dale:

Okay. Now shut up. So, ladies, we treat it like, no. We do. We we we think in that point episode 53.

Eric Deschamps:

Or there is. I feel like I said.

Rob Dale:

What we we do. We we sometimes we’ll look at this stuff and we, we think having regret is bad. Now when regret consumes you or controls you, yeah, it’s bad. That’s not a healthy way to focus in on the past. But regret, I have all kinds of regrets on how I treated people, on how I showed up in different things. Those are regrets, but they’re not things that consume or control me anymore because I’ve been able to forgive and release myself off them.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. 100%. A 100%. And when when you guys think of, like, Where where you struggle to let go of past mistakes or where you have struggled to let go? Like, how does that show up? What what situations do you find it hardest, to forgive yourself.

Kate Beere:

Well Oh,

Rob Dale:

you’re ready with that?

Wendy Dodds:

So this this will tie in really well to when so, Kate, when you said that you You put yours in a parking lot. I turn mine into a big auditorium of, like, a lecture hall, And then I create all of these scenarios and synopsises of what I should have said, what I should have done. I reenact the whole thing, all of that kind of stuff, and I I write novels and books. And I think I’m on chapter 682 of, playing that imagery in my head on how it should’ve gone down and and not letting it go because it’s already done and it’s already closed, But reenacting, even though I know, subconsciously, that doesn’t change anything, I still go through the motions of But if I had said this or I had done this, and then this would have happened, and then I just find my so that is very unhealthy. I think I’m better at it, but definitely still something I’m working on.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. That’s so powerful. It reminds me of the Buddhist concept of the 2nd arrow. Right? The the the story is told that we can’t control the 1st arrow that is shot at us. Right? That that is usually an outside force that is causing that. It. But the 2nd arrow is what we do with the 1st arrow. The the reliving it in our head, I should’ve, I could’ve,

Rob Dale:

I

Eric Deschamps:

must’ve, you know, it. And we actually torment ourselves

Eric Deschamps:

Yep.

Eric Deschamps:

With these scenarios and literally make ourselves miserable, with those with those regrets.

Wendy Dodds:

Yeah.

Kate Beere:

What what I learned in therapy, my favorite word on the show, is that We’ve noticed. Yeah. Well, is like, I don’t like Forgiveness. I feel like doctor Sherry would hate that. I’m working on building a better relationship. Forgiveness. Hard. Myself say it.

Kate Beere:

I was like, oh, thank you.

Eric Deschamps:

She’ll be watching.

Kate Beere:

Yeah. She will. Yeah. But I it’s been a challenge for me in in my in my past. I I don’t like forgiveness. I’m not good at forgiveness. I’d rather, like, if something happens, see you. I’m out.

Kate Beere:

Like, you talk fight or flight. I am slight. Like, I am flying away. I just you know, it’s parked. It didn’t happen. I can now move forward. Right? Yeah. Going back to that.

Kate Beere:

So for me, it’s been really challenging to because leaning into forgiveness actually is it’s for you. Right? Like, when you’re forgiving someone else or yourself, it’s always for you ultimately. But by leaning into forgiveness for me, it it creates closer intimacy with those people around me. Right?

Rob Dale:

It it it’s interesting that because I can so relate to that, and and it was, you know, not my chance to say and diddle, you know, to what Kate said. For me, it’s very much I know that I am in the environment of needing forgive to to forgive self is when I start to avoid. When I avoid a situation, I avoid a person, I’m anxious that I might run into somebody in a mall or whatever, and it’s like and and typically, that’s because there are things that I’m again, where that regret has become unhealthy. And because I have just distanced or disconnected, and now all of a sudden, it’s like it’s there. And I and I I’ll use as a perfect example, and I wanna maybe get into what are some examples, that, we can share? And and if I might start with 1, as an example as, even at the past relationship when that ended, there were people that were connected to that person who, came to the same gym, and I remember how much I struggled. And you and I would talk about this because I would struggle if they were at the gym with me because at first, they weren’t really speaking to me, and it I was just awkward. And I was just like, I just was I’m just gonna miss classes when they’re there, and I was just all this awkwardness until I was able to first kinda go hang on a second and and work through my own emotions and then be able to address it with

Eric Deschamps:

the other person. What a classic example, though. A great example of what we avoid, we keep running into.

Rob Dale:

Mhmm. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Wendy Dodds:

Well,

Eric Deschamps:

you we talk about forgiveness, whether it be forgiving someone else. The focus today is really that inward journey of forgiving ourselves, letting ourselves off the hook, but whether it’s for forgiving someone else or forgiving ourselves. Unforgiveness is toxic to our spirit. It’s toxic to our soul, and so we may try to avoid it. I know for me, I know, I’ve got some work to do when I start avoiding some of my rituals that are like reflection, like journaling, the things that are actually very life giving to me that’s Because I know I’m gonna have to come face to face with some of that shit, and I’d rather avoid it. So we actually avoid ourselves. In the work that we do, and so very few people have a reflective practice. And I believe the part of that is because in reflective practice, You come face to face with yourself, and you come face to face with some of those parking lot issues.

Eric Deschamps:

Right? Those auditorium issues, whatever they may be, it. And we have a choice to make as to what are we gonna do with that. Right?

Wendy Dodds:

Yep. It, it’s amazing how when you really start to pay attention to where your energy goes and how much energy you have. So much of the shit that we carry and the baggage that we carry, affects us physically so much. And where your energy goes. Your energy flows, and when we hold on to those types of things now, again, I speak like it’s easy. It’s not. It’s really hard, But it doesn’t allow, the universe or or the space that’s around you to open up and allow that new energy come to come in because you’re so focused on the toxic, the stale, the negative the unhealthy energy that continues to consume you.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. Well, unforgiveness by nature is a closed stance. You you’re literally closed. You’ve closed off to yourself. You’re closed off to others. Right? You can’t be in a position to receive or be open.

Rob Dale:

So, I started in kinda hint that we’re gonna talk about this, maybe some personal examples, something that you’d be comfortable in sharing of a time where you really did struggle and how did that affect your ability to live richly. Let’s be real kinda tangible examples that people might be able to go, I’ve been there. I’ve done that. Relate to those some of these. Anyone?

Kate Beere:

Yeah. I mean, I’ll I’ll we’ve talked about it before on the show, but for me, it’s like breaking up the family unit. Like, I it is the number 1 hardest to forgive myself for knowing I’m the one that instigated that, and I’m the one that that, you know, broke the family. Right? That’s that’s my dialogue around it. You always correct me when I use certain language on that. However, my dialogue has always been, you know, it’s on me. It’s my fault. And so the journey there to forgiveness is, you know, loving myself enough to understand why I did it, but it’s still a journey for me.

Kate Beere:

So there are there are days where I’m like, I’m like, I’m awesome. Like, I did it. It’s great. It’s fantastic. And then there’s other days where I’m like, You’re the shittiest human on the planet. Like, it it’s it’s ebbs and flows for me. For me, that’s a huge one. It’s the biggest chunk in my life that I’ve ever felt so, like, shame, guilt, all of it.

Kate Beere:

Right? And so I I forgive myself in pockets. I I would say I am nowhere near, you know, to that level of of full forgiveness, and I don’t know that I ever ever will be, but it’s a journey.

Eric Deschamps:

It’s a journey. And I think it’s a little bit by little bit, right, slowly by slowly. I know for me, I just, celebrated my daughter’s wedding just a few days ago, and, I think where I have been the hardest on myself one of the years I’ve been on the hardest on myself where literally lived in a state of self punishment, you know, for years is mistakes made, in my relationship with my kids, right, from, right, not being really present at many times because I was so focused on other mistakes that I had made in the past or obsessing about the future that I struggle to be present, always with them and, you know, made a decision after my first divorce, I kinda jumped into a 2nd relationship, and that really didn’t work out. And I I kinda lost my relationship with my 2nd daughter for a couple years where I barely saw her. And to this day when we’re in social settings, which, of course, the wedding brings everyone together, and, we were at the rehearsal party, and, I I remember whispering to you a couple times where, oh, I’m on the outside. I’m always on the outside of this. I always feel like I’m on the outside, and it would take, you know, the rest of that day into the evening, previous to the wedding, where I would burn my shirt with the iron, the the shirt I’m supposed to wear at the wedding, and I burned it. It.

Eric Deschamps:

And I lost my shit and realized, okay. Wait a second. I’m, 1, I’m cranked because of my daughter’s wedding tomorrow, but I’m also being triggered by all this, Right? Like, regret. Right? And I remember making a decision that night that, I’m not gonna let anybody else’s bullshit. So family, you know, family’s all isn’t family always great at weddings? I said, I’m not gonna let any family member, any of their bullshit interfere with this this special day. I’m not I’m not gonna let any of my bullshit interfere, with and I literally was able to let go in that moment. And the next day was so present to all, the joy and the, the tears and the love of my me and my daughter, my and my other 2 kids, and it. It was such a powerful moment, but I don’t know if I coulda got there in the past because I would’ve been stuck, saying you don’t deserve it, Deshaun.

Eric Deschamps:

You’ve that you’ve made mistakes as a dad. You weren’t there like you could’ve been, should’ve been, would’ve been. And I remember it was doctor Sherry real quick, because I realized I’ve I’ve already been talking for a while here, but, where she said, Eric, what would it take for you we were talking about this very thing, my regret over mistakes made as a dad. And she said, what would it take for you if this side of the room is unfinished business and this side of the room is finished business. What would it take for you to move that from this side of the room to that side of the room? And I couldn’t answer her because I said, what do you mean finished business? Because I couldn’t even envision that I could let myself off the hook, and that began the process of me starting to let go of what was a pretty significant weight that’s that I’ve carried around most of my adult life.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. That’s good. And what about for you?

Wendy Dodds:

Well, I don’t have anything to match. No. I I I think it all joking aside, I think that, that speaks so much to so many parents, where when you your your kids, your children finally reach a certain age and you look back and you think, I shoulda done this, and I wish I had done that. And, you know, so I just yeah, I I just think that that example speaks so much. Gosh. So, well, I think for me, learning to forgive myself around the person I used to be when I was significantly unhealthy physically and mentally. Like, I was a smoker for many years. You know, I’ve talked before my episode, very much overweight, very unhealthy habits.

Wendy Dodds:

But moving into the journey where I switched my career and I started working in the in the fitness space, I still struggle, and you and I talk about this, almost with imposter syndrome where I feel like I will beat myself up around, well, who does she think she is? Right. What credentials does she have? All of those things coming from the place that I was before and, you know, learning to forgive myself that I’m trying to celebrate the person that I was because the person that I was has now helped me transform into the person that I am today. Yeah. But but that’s hard, and that creates a lot of scripts in my head around, you don’t deserve to be doing what you’re doing because you you don’t have all those credentials on paper. You didn’t you know, you weren’t the picture perfect vision of health and wellness, and now who are you to coach people on that? So that’s been a big struggle for me.

Eric Deschamps:

We just the imposter syndrome piece. Right? We were we have a morning ritual where we look at these cards. They’re like intention cards. Right? And, what was one recently, we’re all impostors. Just own that shit.

Kate Beere:

It was so good. So good.

Eric Deschamps:

I thought, like, we all feel that. Right? We all feel.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. It’s probably exactly. And I I know we’ve had that conversation is, yeah, everyone, or most people anyway feel that imposter syndrome is is is a big one for sure. It it’s so interesting as you hear because so much of this is related to, how we’ve shown up, in in relationships and much of people’s need to forgive. You know, there’s lots of different things that they will often, are examples that can be given. It for most people, it seems it’s either around certain relationships. Well, it is relationship, but it’s relationships with others or relationships with self.

Eric Deschamps:

Right. Right.

Rob Dale:

Right? And so it’s either the the the bad habits, the things that you’ve done, the the self destructive behaviors. So

Eric Deschamps:

decisions you’ve made that

Rob Dale:

you regret it that you made.

Eric Deschamps:

Or decisions you wished you would’ve made, that you didn’t make, and you missed out on something. I mean, it that list is so long.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. There are so many things out there. So, and and so maybe let’s lean in on the imposter syndrome because it kinda comes out of this notion of the the perfection trap. Right. The Yeah. The idea that we’ve got to show up perfectly in a social pressure. Well and today, with social media, we’ve had many conversations on many different episodes around this. We have set a standard of what we’re supposed to be.

Rob Dale:

And this what I love about what we do on this on this podcast is the vulnerability of willing to say, I love what you said, Kate, about I I don’t know if I’ll ever get there. And the openness of saying that is is freeing. Yeah. I’m on a journey, and I you know, listen. I got all kinds of fucked up things that I do in my life. I don’t know if I’ll ever fix them all, but I’m on a journey of living richly to me is the journey of embracing the fucked upness Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah.

Rob Dale:

As well as the perfectness, right. And everything in between. And so but but I know I know I’m the only one at this table that struggles with perfection.

Eric Deschamps:

Yes. Yes. You are.

Rob Dale:

Right? Yeah. So what would you say to me? You’re having a breakthrough right now. We were about to set up an intervention Exactly.

Eric Deschamps:

That’s of the perfection is What

Rob Dale:

would you say to those that struggle, with that notion of, again, all of what’s out there, the perfection thing?

Kate Beere:

Yeah. I, Doctor Sherry’s taking over this episode, but on my recent call with her, she gave me some homework, right, as she often does, and and we were just talking about perfectionism, and that that was on fire on my last call. And I don’t know why. But, and as you

Eric Deschamps:

were talking about somebody else.

Kate Beere:

For sure. And she she challenged me. She wouldn’t have used those words, but she asked me basically to half ask something. She’s like, Kate, I want you to half ask something. I’m like, half ass something. I’m like, what do you mean? She’s like, do something, half ass. And I’m like, I don’t know what that means. She’s like, exactly.

Kate Beere:

Right? I’m gonna be perfect

Rob Dale:

and half assed it.

Kate Beere:

She’s like, just, like, half assed it. Don’t fold all the laundry. And I was like, what? Like right? Like, I’m like I was getting all she’s like, don’t do all the dishes or, like, don’t overdeliver at work or just do something half ass. And I was like, and I I’m my and she even said it. She’s like, your body language, your shoulders are shrugging. You are so physically uncomfortable in your own skin. And I said, yes. Because what you just said, for me, makes me super uncomfortable.

Kate Beere:

But what’s been so interesting, for the last 3 weeks, I actually have vertigo, so have been been forced to kinda half ass some stuff. So so things didn’t kinda get all done soon as they would have. And so I got to lean into that not by choice, but because I had to. Yeah. But then what I realized is like, oh, This isn’t so bad. Okay. So the counters aren’t crystal clean, and my floors aren’t super swept. And and I started to get more comfortable with what would have made me really uncomfortable

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Kate Beere:

Before. And so part of that is the forgiveness of for me, of having to show up so

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Kate Beere:

So perfectly, everything has to be done at a 180% all the time. So I got to lean into a little bit of forced uncomfortableness. Right. It’s hard work.

Eric Deschamps:

Well, often it has to force us, doesn’t it? Like, it’s it’s amazing how we fall into these traps, and we talk about the perfect trap. Well, That’s Are the expectations that society places on us that we place on ourselves let’s be fair. We hold ourselves to standards that are so unrealistic, And then we’re constantly falling short. Well, of course, we’re falling short. The standard’s not fair. The standard’s perfection. Well, it’s not about perfection. It’s about progress.

Eric Deschamps:

And I remember one of the most liberating things, this was, right on the heels. I had just, was in my 3rd burnout. This was in 2017. I’d gone down. I was in a bad way. I was in a really bad shape, and I went down to spend several days with actor with Sherry to work on some stuff. And I was sitting in the coffee shop, they’re in Bedford, called Hebrews. Yeah.

Eric Deschamps:

It was a joke. The Hebrews, like,

Eric Deschamps:

that’s

Eric Deschamps:

Oh, man. That

Kate Beere:

was, like, right.

Eric Deschamps:

I know. Anyway Only only the preachers. Only the Only the old test. Only the old test.

Wendy Dodds:

Certainly. Funny area. Sad. It’s so

Eric Deschamps:

but I here I am sitting in the coffee shop, and, again, I’m I’m, at this point, hundreds of miles from home. I’m in a bad place mentally, emotionally, and, I’m sitting or waiting for the time for our meeting across the street at the office we’re gonna meet at. And I’m, as all you know, just reflecting on the day, and in my feed in Facebook comes up this this meme that was transformational for me. And it took it’s taken me a long time to actually be able to grasp its full meaning. But I remember in the moment, it cracked something open. And it simply said, forgive yourself for not knowing what you didn’t know until you learned it. And here I was holding myself. I would I would, with my present self, Judge my past self for making certain decisions, taking certain actions, sometimes not taking action, And holding myself with such severe judgment, but my past self didn’t have the perspective that my present self does.

Eric Deschamps:

So when we look back on our past, We often are looking back really unfairly, and judging it with standards that are really, really fucked up, and we wonder why we feel so terribly about ourselves.

Rob Dale:

Look at this notion of forgiveness. What are some of the kinda principles that you’ve started to apply within your own life to, start to embrace forgiveness. What have

Eric Deschamps:

been some of

Rob Dale:

the starting points, if you will, to to allowing that forgiveness to to come into into your life, into reality.

Kate Beere:

I the one thing I love is observe without judgment, and I don’t know where I heard it, but observe certain things that I do without the judgment.

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Kate Beere:

So it’s an observation of I’m just using my dirty house right now because it’s dirty. So but, like, observe, oh, the floors are messy. Not, oh, the floors are messy. You know, you’re lazy. Why didn’t you clean them? It the so, oh, the floors are messy. Observation, period, and letting that letting that go. So taking the judgment piece out of it good. Is a really powerful way to and you start.

Kate Beere:

You realize you do it more and more, and I can be there. And I go right to the judgment, and I’m like, nope. The floors are dirty, and let it go. Right. And then it just it’s a little bit of a tool that helps you kinda flick a switch pretty pretty quickly.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. That’s powerful.

Kate Beere:

That’s powerful. It’s helpful.

Rob Dale:

What about for you guys?

Wendy Dodds:

I find that putting Pen to paper is very therapeutic for me, and I try to practice So 2 things. 1, I am statements, and it could be just really simple things around, I am worthy. I am not, or I have no control over other people’s thoughts and feelings. I deserve to, whatever it is, and just spewing out a whole bunch of I am statements, which can be just so simple, but just so very powerful. And then I’ll and then I’ll reread them. It’s it’s interesting because some of my clients will say, oh, you know, things like that, like journaling. I don’t know. But sometimes it’s sometimes it’s the simplest things, and your example was great.

Wendy Dodds:

The observation, easy to do, but easier not to do. So sometimes the simplest things are are the most effective. And then the other thing that I will do is just simple line down the middle of the paper. What can I control? What can I not control?

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Wendy Dodds:

And and, You know, when we and so teaching my daughter this, who’s going through some of her own stuff around taking away that overwhelm and taking away those scripts and that conversation and all that bullshit that goes through your head, writing down, well, what can you control, what can you not control, and really helping kinda decipher. Okay. So now that I see it down on paper, okay. Now it makes more sense, and it just takes away some of that overwhelm and and allows me to choose where my energy is gonna shift.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s powerful.

Rob Dale:

It it it’s it’s interesting that we we, again, begin to embrace these scripts or these or they these phrases, I should say, these the the language whether it’s writing down the statements. You know, you say when you say for me, it’s it’s very much the same. It’s I I learned this out of, why am I blanking on the book? The the soul, The, anyway, the whole notion of where the the idea behind it, and we’ll put the book in the show notes, talked about it a 100000000 times on this episode and having a blank moment with it, where, it talks about the notion of the energy flowing through you. Right. Right? Right. Right. Right. And the idea that we all and one of the phrases that I’ve embraced when it comes to energy when emotions go through is, oh, that’s interesting.

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Rob Dale:

Right? Oh, that’s interesting. I let that emotion go out. Now I can look at it and kinda name it. The same comes to when I start to get harsh with myself or when I when I get into those moments of of unfair of of not being able to figure out or or I’m being critical of myself or I’m being critical of how I’m showing up in a situation. It’s the same language. It’s the I I need to get a t shirt with this on it. Oh, that’s interesting. Alright.

Rob Dale:

Because that’s the phrase. Oh, that’s interesting. For me, for whatever reason, that Script, that phrase triggers some kind of, now I’m gonna process.

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Rob Dale:

And when I allow myself to process what I’m doing or experiencing or experiencing or feeling in that moment, I’m much more less I’m less likely to be harsh on myself and more likely to forgive myself if I can use some kind of language to trigger. It’s time to, to to explore that.

Eric Deschamps:

Well, the mind is a powerful thing. Right? The we say that there’s an old Hebrew saying that says, out of the heart, the mouth speaks. In other words, the language that we use is a reflection of what we actually believe. Words are the language of belief. And so when we’re talking very negatively about ourselves, It’s a reflection of how we feel about ourselves. But here’s what happens, that our thoughts are not just a reflection. They are additional programs. So when we articulate, you’re such a loser, you’re such a piece of shit, you’re, you know, you’re such a failure, 1, it’s a reflection of what we actually believe.

Eric Deschamps:

2, we are reinforcing forcing the belief because our mind is hearing us say that statement out loud and the mind registers it as truth, and it just reinforces. So this is the power of affirmation, the power of suspending judgment, the power of, right taking a look and observing your thoughts, externally. And is this true? Is this not true? For for me, the biggest one has been I don’t need to keep punishing myself. Again, this, this recent experience with Sherry, what would it take to move this unfinished business into the finished business category? And I finally, A light came on that, oh, what you’re saying is it can be that I don’t have to keep punishing myself till the day I fall down dead, that I can actually let this go, that I can see it as a learning moment. Because I think for me, one of the statements that I I think the phrase is so damaging to our understanding of forgiveness is forgive and forget. Forgive and forget. That is bullshit. There is no forgetting.

Eric Deschamps:

There is no like, all of a sudden, that memory is what? Erased from your brain? No. I think it’s forgive and learn, forgive and grow, forgive and evolve. Right? Because, I came to a realization a few months back that that, part of, overcoming your past. To me, it was almost put your past behind you. It’s like, no. Actually, my past, your past, everyone’s past is actually full of powerful lessons and wisdom just ready to be mined if we’ll if we’ll if we’ll do that. I’m not talking about living in the rearview mirror or obsessing over your past, But in your past, with the pain and the bullshit and the mistakes made and whatever else are also some pretty damn powerful moments that have shaped you into who you are today, And learning to mind that past is pretty powerful. But it’s hard to do that if you’re beating yourself up constantly and punishing yourself.

Eric Deschamps:

That that was really my state of mind is I need to suffer for what I’ve done, what I’ve said, etcetera, etcetera. Right?

Rob Dale:

It it it’s compassion. It’s that compassion, for yourself and to be able to you know, it’s interesting, the language that I’ve been using, more recently is to embrace my past. And and the first thought of I don’t wanna embrace that. There’s all kinds of and to your point, though, I can’t until I embrace my past, I’m not able to move into and live into present

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Rob Dale:

Or even consider the future. Right. To live in the present means to embrace my and how to and I I can’t embrace my past until I begin to show compassion for who I was and how I showed up and the things that I did just as and and maybe this would be we all we’ve all had this kind if you were talking if you talk to yourself or someone else the way you would talk to yourself, right. Most of us would never do that. Well, we’d probably get punched in the face of, the idea that we we just simply don’t do that. We are more, we are so quick to show compassion for someone else for the behavior that we do.

Eric Deschamps:

100%.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. And if we could show that for ourselves, that’s the starting point.

Kate Beere:

One thing, you you had a similar story on this, but I had an experience. I was in a in a therapy session years years years ago, and I remember they used the, like, you know, talk to yourself as if you’re a small child. Would you use that language? And I remember thinking, well, what do you mean? She and my therapist is like, talk to your younger self. And we we’ve talked about this before, but it’s so powerful in the moment. It’s like what you’re telling yourself, self like, you know, you’re nothing. You’re not worthy. You’re awful. Would you ever talk to your younger self like that? And not just any child, yourself as a child.

Kate Beere:

Would you ever use that type of language? And, of course, your reaction immediately is, well well, no. I would never do that. But when you you can start thinking about that in times when you’re really in it, like, really in it. Just you I always picture this little red chair. I have no idea why. Whatever. My cue, it works. Yeah.

Kate Beere:

But a little red chair and picture myself young, and it it instantly it my heart shifts because I would never speak to my younger self like that. Yet somehow, I’ve given myself permission to talk to my adult self like that all of the time.

Eric Deschamps:

Right. It’s, again, how we talk to ourselves. We we’ve said this before. The relationship we have with ourselves so the relationship I have with myself sets the tone for every other relationship. So on the eve of my, daughter’s wedding, if I had chosen to play the tune that I’ve played many times before. My experience of that wedding, of that special moment, would have been very, very different even though nothing else would have been different. What would have been different is I’m going in sideways because I’m holding myself hostage to these past mistakes, right, that actually were lessons learned that have helped me become who I am today, but that’s the whole like, how we talk to ourselves is so crucial. Let me ask you this, and then let’s move, as we prepare to wrap up for today.

Eric Deschamps:

I I believe we could talk about this for a very, very long time. I’d like us to think about key takeaways that our listeners, could walk away within in terms of as as they’re trying to work through either just forgiving themselves in the day to day or overcoming what I call big rocks from the past, right, where they these things are still weighing and showing up heavily, I want you to imagine if you met your higher evolved self. Right? Look. 10 years from now, we bring we bring that evolved self into the present. What would that evolved self say to you perhaps about some of your big rocks and letting go?

Kate Beere:

A big question.

Eric Deschamps:

Big question.

Kate Beere:

Yeah. I don’t know I don’t know I don’t know. That’s my answer. I don’t because I’m not sure I know what my evolved self would look like. I would anticipate it would be a lot like myself today.

Rob Dale:

Just more involved.

Kate Beere:

Longer. I would Watch. Mind blown. I never saw that. That’s what you were talking about. Oh. But what I think I do now when I look back on myself 10 years ago, 15 years ago, 20 years ago is is to be kind to myself. So I would hope my evolved self later on is is probably telling myself today, go easy on yourself.

Kate Beere:

Be kind to yourself. Mind the words you use to yourself. Forgive yourself. So it’s it’s that continuation of of having empathy for self, which is you know, it’s easy to have empathy for I shouldn’t say easy, but it’s easier to have empathy others.

Eric Deschamps:

So much easier.

Kate Beere:

But to have empathy for self can be so challenging. So I would hope my evolved self is, you know Yeah. Evolved self of me.

Eric Deschamps:

Right.

Kate Beere:

But in that same sense, just the the reminder would be to be kind to be kind.

Eric Deschamps:

That’s powerful. How about you guys?

Wendy Dodds:

Yeah. Well, I think if I look at my evolved self, but also myself today, like, you know, because we can evolve in a day, in a week, in a year, in 10 years, remembering in my mind that the wound, whatever the wound is, maybe sometimes it was my fault, maybe sometimes it wasn’t my fault. So regardless of whose fault the wound is, the wound is there, but it’s my choice on how to heal from it. So we can do all the therapy. We can do all the journaling. We can do we can do all the things, but at the end of the day, we choose where our energy goes and deciding to either continue to dig the knife in deeper or choose to recognize that even if that wasn’t my fault for how that event happened or what was whatever, it’s my responsibility to heal from it. And I I I bring that example up because, you know, the whole topic being forgiveness, you know, people come into your lives and say things and do things, and then it’s up to us to choose whether or not we forgive them. Well, if the wound isn’t our fault, that’s fine, but how we choose to heal from it is our responsibility.

Eric Deschamps:

Absolutely. Absolutely.

Rob Dale:

Yeah. Yeah. I probably my evolved self. The the first thing my evolved self would say to me is, oh, that’s cute that you think you know what I was gonna say to you. That’s that’s probably the that Your vile self doesn’t sound very nice.

Eric Deschamps:

Well, that’s

Rob Dale:

well, that was cute, Ralph. Yeah. That was yeah. No. It’s interesting. So, the very fast, first tattoo I got is this, is a tattoo on my arm here that says grace. And now when I got when I got this tattoo, I was still in the church world, and it meant something very different. It was an external grace of God’s grace towards you.

Rob Dale:

Right? That’s how I saw this, where I’ve changed very much now. And now whenever I see this tattoo, the immediate thought comes to grace that I show myself and the grace that I show others. It it it it doesn’t have the spiritual connotation to it. It really is, and it starts with myself. And it’s and it really comes down to we’ve already talked about it a number of times here. The language that I use with myself. I am, I think I’ve gotten pretty good at it. I’ve I’ve I’ve it’s something I’ve worked at for for some time now.

Rob Dale:

I’m very careful with the language that I use when I am talking to myself. Sometimes it comes out still, and I but I’m also very good at when I I catch the language when it’s not the right language. Yeah. I I I just that’s the part. I I guess I look at and go, holy shit. How far I’ve come in the last 2 years Yeah. With the language that I use myself. I just can’t wait to see how the evolved self I’d say you’re still not.

Rob Dale:

Talk about myself at that point. I’m gonna be just continually giving myself hugs or something. I mean, that’d be weird, but it’s okay. It’s okay. It. No. But that’s I think so my evolved self would likely say great job on how you’re speaking to yourself. Yeah.

Rob Dale:

Keeping on that. Keeping on that more.

Eric Deschamps:

Not

Eric Deschamps:

understand. One one of the things I love about our friendship is that, actually, when we hear each other use language that’s so Self deprecating or damaging. We’ll actually hey. Careful. Yeah. Right? Careful. You wanna rephrase that. We actually call each other on it.

Eric Deschamps:

Okay. Rapid fire. We’re gonna wrap up with some key takeaways, advice that we can give our listeners or lessons learned maybe is a better way to to put it rather than advice. I’m gonna ask. I’m gonna start with Rob. We’re just gonna come down, and what what would you say to our listeners right now based on what we’ve discussed today and perhaps some other, Quick tidbits of of wisdom that you might share on letting go, what would you say and go?

Rob Dale:

Well, a very first thing would be forgive yourself for struggling to forgive yourself. Mhmm. And I know that seems kind of a bit, you know, a bit strange, but that would be right. We put so much pressure on ourselves that I’ve gotta forget. It’s, oh,

Eric Deschamps:

look at me. Oh, I’m so lousy

Rob Dale:

at forgiving myself. Right? Just start there. Just be okay with where you are. It’s a journey to get to a point where you can truly forgive yourself.

Kate Beere:

Love

Wendy Dodds:

that. Yeah. I have to go back to the where your energy goes, your energy flows, and just being really intentional, not just about where you’re, how you’re spending your day and where you’re spending your time, but where you choose to place that direction in because you can’t open yourself up and allow that good energy to flow through when we hold on to all of that should have, could have, wish I could have done energy.

Eric Deschamps:

Right. Right. Right.

Kate Beere:

So true. I think for me, I would challenge you to look in the mirror and actually say I forgive you. So to make eye contact with yourself as you’re saying it, it’s hard. It is hard, but it’s it’s so, so helpful. As you would look into someone else’s eyes that you’re forgiving, you’re now looking into your own eyes, and it’s very, very powerful when you can connect with yourself and say, I forgive you.

Eric Deschamps:

Yeah. That’s so powerful. Mine would be get present to the space the unforgiveness, is is taking up in your spirit and in your heart. It it is actually preventing you from living your best life, it’s And it’s blocking out all kinds of blessings and love and joy. Why do you wanna keep carrying that around? Stop punishing yourself, and and just learn to let go. Learn to let go. Folks, we’re so glad you’ve joined us on the show today. We’re so glad that you’re, part of this journey with us, we hope that you found this conversation helpful.

Eric Deschamps:

As we encourage you to do every week, if this episode resonates with you, please like, share, Scribe. Get the word out on social media. Pass it on to somebody. We’re we see that happening a lot with the show. People are sharing it with one another, and we hear these great testimonials that come back. So please help us get the word out. Somebody in your network needs to hear this message.

Rob Dale:

And check out the website, living richly dot me. We’ve got all kinds the great resources on there and all kinds of information that will help you, and you can check out all the past episodes. Just so much content that we wanna be able to make available for you. Thanks again for joining us, for being a part of this, and, we just celebrate with you as you continue to live your best life.

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